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Itís a Fork, Itís a Spoon, Itís a ... Weapon?
New York Times ^ | October 11, 2009 | Ian Urbina

Posted on 10/12/2009 5:54:24 AM PDT by reaganaut1

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To: wintertime

Adding to my last comment: My own child was pushed out of preschool by the school principal. That’s why we started homeschooling. Otherwise, we would’ve never considered it. So, in a way, that piece of scum principal did us a favor.

FTR, my son was a nice boy; he still is. Long story. I’ll be telling more below to someone else.


101 posted on 10/12/2009 9:47:39 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: reaganaut1

It is unfortunately the case that a great number of people in positions of authority have their heads stuck so far and so firmly up their butts that they’ll never get them out. This is a perfect example.


102 posted on 10/12/2009 9:54:14 AM PDT by Jack Hammer (w)
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To: wintertime
Government schools are working exactly as intended from their beginnings in the mid-1800s.

Marx and Engels Communist Manifesto was published in 1848. Connection??

However, I was in public schools from 1944 - 1960 and they taught American patriotism and Christian values as well as the three Rs, American and World history, etc. It wasn't until later, around the early '60s IIRC, that things started changing.

103 posted on 10/12/2009 10:00:28 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
no teacher is going to be fired for reporting a student who has a metal utensil. But people will lose their jobs if a kid kills another kid. So all the incentives are to adopt MORE of these policies, to keep people safe in their jobs.

Bingo. It's all about job security. If another child were hurt by the knife - even ACCIDENTALLY - people would complain that the school should've taken the knife away. So, even though I homeschool and have had my own dealings with the school system that were negative, I understand why the policy of "no knives" is in place.

Meanwhile, even a pencil or pen could be used as a weapon. But, if another child were hurt with a pencil or pen, people would never think to ban pencils and pens from school. (Though I wouldn't rule it out in the future.) But, an accident with a "knife" - even just a pocketknife - elicits a whole different response. So, I could understand the school taking a pocketknife away from a child, for example.

STILL, 45 days in reform school for a six year old bringing a spork to school is utterly ridiculous.

104 posted on 10/12/2009 10:07:41 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
However, I was in public schools from 1944 - 1960 and they taught American patriotism and Christian values as well as the three Rs, American and World history, etc. It wasn't until later, around the early '60s IIRC, that things started changing.

You were being taught by people who were the age of my parents. These people still had parents and grandparents who literally lived the pioneer experience of hacking a civilization out of the wilderness. The goal of the earliest education activists in the mid-1800s ( and other education leaders of the early 20th century until Bill Ayer, today) was to eliminate this influence. They have and are succeeding.

Then there is the socialist object lesson that **all** children who have from the very beginning of government schools have experienced. ALL children who have ever attended government schools learn ( simply by attending) that government has the power to take from the neighbor to pay for a service their parents want for FREE!

If children are trained to be comfortable with taking money from their neighbor for education, then why not social security, health care, prescription drugs, New Deals, Great Societies, college tuition, free transportation, ...even free entertainment?

105 posted on 10/12/2009 10:23:53 AM PDT by wintertime (People are not stupid! Good ideas win!)
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To: stinkerpot65

The liberal/feminist goal is to squash every size of male that has potential and give them a permanent record for their future.


106 posted on 10/12/2009 10:43:47 AM PDT by George from New England (escaped CT 2006; now living north of Tampa Bay)
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To: MrB

I can’t read the rest of the article because I refuse to sign up for the NYT. But, it makes sense to me that a school cannot take a knife from one 6yo child but let another keep one. If nothing else, that would cause trouble between the students themselves.

45 days for a 6yo with a pocketknife is ABSURD. But, I could understand if the school had merely taken it away and held it aside for him.

But, this school did this child a favor. The mother should continue homeschooling. We started homeschooling when the local public school kicked our eldest child at age 4 out of its optional preschool program. He always was a good boy - the teacher’s pet, in fact. But, he was sick for a week, and our car had broken down, so I couldn’t bring him everyday. The principal threatened me with truancy charges if I didn’t remove him from the program.

Obviously, the school didn’t have a zero tolerance policy because another parent with a child in the same class told me her child had missed even more days, and she said she knew a lot of parents who didn’t take their children to preschool everyday. She said, “It’s OPTIONAL.” But, she also said she was active in the PTA and the principal would’ve never tried that with her. She said, “There are a lot of politics going on at the school.”

So, I can understand the reasons behind “zero tolerance” policies. If what one child does is an “infraction”, other children doing the same thing should receive the same “penalties” if there are any. But, again, this particular penalty - 45 days for ANY 6yo child - is ridiculous. I don’t care what kind of family the child is from. Even a 6yo child living with a neglectful, abusive, drug addicted parent shouldn’t be sentenced to reform school, either; instead, he should be placed with a good family, if the situation is that bad.


107 posted on 10/12/2009 10:50:25 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: Hegemony Cricket
My SIL once chose a restaurant solely on the fact that was 'Gun Free' the last, and I mean LAST, time we went out with her. She smugly asked what I would do without my 'gun' and I informed her that I could use the simple items on the table to kill her and half the people in the room before anyone could even dial 911.

She was not amused, but the rest of the table howled in laughter.

108 posted on 10/12/2009 10:51:35 AM PDT by 11Bush
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To: Tired of Taxes

I don’t think so. I get the feeling the only district school he’s welcome at until he’s completed 45 days there is the “reform school”, and that she’s homeschooling him as a way of temporarily withdrawing him from the district entirely until she gets the reform school edict reversed.


109 posted on 10/12/2009 11:17:30 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: reaganaut1

I remember when I was in junior high school, around 1950, their was contest to sell magazines. I sold enough to get a hunting knife which I received at school. I carried it around school all day and showed it off to my buddies. No problems from anybody including teachers.


110 posted on 10/12/2009 11:37:15 AM PDT by Uncle Hal
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To: Still Thinking

That was my impression, too. I hope the parents decide to continue homeschooling.

We had no intentions of homeschooling, either, before we had a negative experience with the public school. I hope this will be this family’s wake up call.


111 posted on 10/12/2009 11:38:25 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: reaganaut1

Is this a spork control law or a slap at the homophobic Boy Scouts?


112 posted on 10/12/2009 11:38:59 AM PDT by JrsyJack (There's a little Jim Thompson in all of us)
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To: Tired of Taxes
My daughter was in and out of homeschool and various school alternatives for about the last six years of her school career, and it was usually over excessive unreasonable discipline in her case as well.

She tried going back to regular school in seventh grade. She'd been out of public school for long enough that they gave her placement tests to see what level classes to put her in and she did above average in all areas and aced about half of them. So then she goes to the school and every day they have to get each teacher to sign some log they have to certify they at least tried each problem on the homework. If not, they got detention. Often the teacher was so busy, it was difficult to get her to sign. If it was forgotten or she never had time during the class, detention. They had to grade each others papers and if they used the wrong color pen, detention.

It was like they were TRYING to frustrate the kids, especially the intelligent creative ones. I'm sure they would discipline a kid that stood up and called the teacher a "MFing whore bitch" or something, but I'm sure the punishment would have been...detention. So the upshot is that the school is saying that kind of blatant anti-social disrespectful outburst is morally equivalent to grading in the wrong color pen or having a teacher too busy to sign your book. Morons. She never went back to conventional public school.

113 posted on 10/12/2009 11:50:24 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: 11Bush

Heh - at least you were able to refrain from informing her that you still had your ‘gun’. :-)


114 posted on 10/12/2009 12:20:15 PM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (The emperor has no pedigree.)
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To: reaganaut1

Zero tolerance simply means, I am the government and I cannot ever think rationally for fear I will offend some minority, because he thinks he is being treated differently. So there you have it, a punk brings a switchblade to school, and I punish him. So to be fair to the punk, I must say all knives are bad, even the ones that are not and punish everyone else. Now that is fairness isn’t it? I am the government and I understand fairness, you are too stupid to.


115 posted on 10/12/2009 12:46:56 PM PDT by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter(the Godfather of Terror) allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: Uncle Hal

When I was in high school in the sixties, I was taking a speech class that required us to do a speech using visual aids. One of the guys decided to do his speech on his shotgun. Nobody batted an eye or cared at all.


116 posted on 10/12/2009 12:49:55 PM PDT by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter(the Godfather of Terror) allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: w1andsodidwe

All is not hopeless. Last spring my daughter’s middle school put on the musical Oklahoma—guns and all.


117 posted on 10/12/2009 12:52:54 PM PDT by sand lake bar (Obama: Take away my 1st Amendment and you'll force me to use the 2nd.)
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To: reaganaut1

“Still, some school administrators argue that it is DIFFICULT to distinguish innocent pranks and mistakes from more serious threats, and that the policies must be strict to protect students.”

This says it all right here! Zero tolerance requires zero common sense.


118 posted on 10/12/2009 1:07:59 PM PDT by christianhomeschoolmommaof3 (Best thing about Cash for Clunkers is that 90% of the Obama bumper stickers are now off the road.)
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To: reaganaut1
It’s a Fork, It’s a Spoon, It’s a ... Weapon?

I'm with the school on this one...that kid could turn out to be a cereal killer!

119 posted on 10/12/2009 1:11:04 PM PDT by Onelifetogive (Liberals are always one genocide away from Utopia.)
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To: Hegemony Cricket

Like scissors which the schools have in every classroom. LOL!


120 posted on 10/12/2009 1:14:17 PM PDT by christianhomeschoolmommaof3 (Best thing about Cash for Clunkers is that 90% of the Obama bumper stickers are now off the road.)
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