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Itís a Fork, Itís a Spoon, Itís a ... Weapon?
New York Times ^ | October 11, 2009 | Ian Urbina

Posted on 10/12/2009 5:54:24 AM PDT by reaganaut1

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To: wintertime

Adding to my last comment: My own child was pushed out of preschool by the school principal. That’s why we started homeschooling. Otherwise, we would’ve never considered it. So, in a way, that piece of scum principal did us a favor.

FTR, my son was a nice boy; he still is. Long story. I’ll be telling more below to someone else.


101 posted on 10/12/2009 9:47:39 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: reaganaut1

It is unfortunately the case that a great number of people in positions of authority have their heads stuck so far and so firmly up their butts that they’ll never get them out. This is a perfect example.


102 posted on 10/12/2009 9:54:14 AM PDT by Jack Hammer (w)
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To: wintertime
Government schools are working exactly as intended from their beginnings in the mid-1800s.

Marx and Engels Communist Manifesto was published in 1848. Connection??

However, I was in public schools from 1944 - 1960 and they taught American patriotism and Christian values as well as the three Rs, American and World history, etc. It wasn't until later, around the early '60s IIRC, that things started changing.

103 posted on 10/12/2009 10:00:28 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
no teacher is going to be fired for reporting a student who has a metal utensil. But people will lose their jobs if a kid kills another kid. So all the incentives are to adopt MORE of these policies, to keep people safe in their jobs.

Bingo. It's all about job security. If another child were hurt by the knife - even ACCIDENTALLY - people would complain that the school should've taken the knife away. So, even though I homeschool and have had my own dealings with the school system that were negative, I understand why the policy of "no knives" is in place.

Meanwhile, even a pencil or pen could be used as a weapon. But, if another child were hurt with a pencil or pen, people would never think to ban pencils and pens from school. (Though I wouldn't rule it out in the future.) But, an accident with a "knife" - even just a pocketknife - elicits a whole different response. So, I could understand the school taking a pocketknife away from a child, for example.

STILL, 45 days in reform school for a six year old bringing a spork to school is utterly ridiculous.

104 posted on 10/12/2009 10:07:41 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
However, I was in public schools from 1944 - 1960 and they taught American patriotism and Christian values as well as the three Rs, American and World history, etc. It wasn't until later, around the early '60s IIRC, that things started changing.

You were being taught by people who were the age of my parents. These people still had parents and grandparents who literally lived the pioneer experience of hacking a civilization out of the wilderness. The goal of the earliest education activists in the mid-1800s ( and other education leaders of the early 20th century until Bill Ayer, today) was to eliminate this influence. They have and are succeeding.

Then there is the socialist object lesson that **all** children who have from the very beginning of government schools have experienced. ALL children who have ever attended government schools learn ( simply by attending) that government has the power to take from the neighbor to pay for a service their parents want for FREE!

If children are trained to be comfortable with taking money from their neighbor for education, then why not social security, health care, prescription drugs, New Deals, Great Societies, college tuition, free transportation, ...even free entertainment?

105 posted on 10/12/2009 10:23:53 AM PDT by wintertime (People are not stupid! Good ideas win!)
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To: stinkerpot65

The liberal/feminist goal is to squash every size of male that has potential and give them a permanent record for their future.


106 posted on 10/12/2009 10:43:47 AM PDT by George from New England (escaped CT 2006; now living north of Tampa Bay)
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To: MrB

I can’t read the rest of the article because I refuse to sign up for the NYT. But, it makes sense to me that a school cannot take a knife from one 6yo child but let another keep one. If nothing else, that would cause trouble between the students themselves.

45 days for a 6yo with a pocketknife is ABSURD. But, I could understand if the school had merely taken it away and held it aside for him.

But, this school did this child a favor. The mother should continue homeschooling. We started homeschooling when the local public school kicked our eldest child at age 4 out of its optional preschool program. He always was a good boy - the teacher’s pet, in fact. But, he was sick for a week, and our car had broken down, so I couldn’t bring him everyday. The principal threatened me with truancy charges if I didn’t remove him from the program.

Obviously, the school didn’t have a zero tolerance policy because another parent with a child in the same class told me her child had missed even more days, and she said she knew a lot of parents who didn’t take their children to preschool everyday. She said, “It’s OPTIONAL.” But, she also said she was active in the PTA and the principal would’ve never tried that with her. She said, “There are a lot of politics going on at the school.”

So, I can understand the reasons behind “zero tolerance” policies. If what one child does is an “infraction”, other children doing the same thing should receive the same “penalties” if there are any. But, again, this particular penalty - 45 days for ANY 6yo child - is ridiculous. I don’t care what kind of family the child is from. Even a 6yo child living with a neglectful, abusive, drug addicted parent shouldn’t be sentenced to reform school, either; instead, he should be placed with a good family, if the situation is that bad.


107 posted on 10/12/2009 10:50:25 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: Hegemony Cricket
My SIL once chose a restaurant solely on the fact that was 'Gun Free' the last, and I mean LAST, time we went out with her. She smugly asked what I would do without my 'gun' and I informed her that I could use the simple items on the table to kill her and half the people in the room before anyone could even dial 911.

She was not amused, but the rest of the table howled in laughter.

108 posted on 10/12/2009 10:51:35 AM PDT by 11Bush
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To: Tired of Taxes

I don’t think so. I get the feeling the only district school he’s welcome at until he’s completed 45 days there is the “reform school”, and that she’s homeschooling him as a way of temporarily withdrawing him from the district entirely until she gets the reform school edict reversed.


109 posted on 10/12/2009 11:17:30 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: reaganaut1

I remember when I was in junior high school, around 1950, their was contest to sell magazines. I sold enough to get a hunting knife which I received at school. I carried it around school all day and showed it off to my buddies. No problems from anybody including teachers.


110 posted on 10/12/2009 11:37:15 AM PDT by Uncle Hal
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To: Still Thinking

That was my impression, too. I hope the parents decide to continue homeschooling.

We had no intentions of homeschooling, either, before we had a negative experience with the public school. I hope this will be this family’s wake up call.


111 posted on 10/12/2009 11:38:25 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: reaganaut1

Is this a spork control law or a slap at the homophobic Boy Scouts?


112 posted on 10/12/2009 11:38:59 AM PDT by JrsyJack (There's a little Jim Thompson in all of us)
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To: Tired of Taxes
My daughter was in and out of homeschool and various school alternatives for about the last six years of her school career, and it was usually over excessive unreasonable discipline in her case as well.

She tried going back to regular school in seventh grade. She'd been out of public school for long enough that they gave her placement tests to see what level classes to put her in and she did above average in all areas and aced about half of them. So then she goes to the school and every day they have to get each teacher to sign some log they have to certify they at least tried each problem on the homework. If not, they got detention. Often the teacher was so busy, it was difficult to get her to sign. If it was forgotten or she never had time during the class, detention. They had to grade each others papers and if they used the wrong color pen, detention.

It was like they were TRYING to frustrate the kids, especially the intelligent creative ones. I'm sure they would discipline a kid that stood up and called the teacher a "MFing whore bitch" or something, but I'm sure the punishment would have been...detention. So the upshot is that the school is saying that kind of blatant anti-social disrespectful outburst is morally equivalent to grading in the wrong color pen or having a teacher too busy to sign your book. Morons. She never went back to conventional public school.

113 posted on 10/12/2009 11:50:24 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: 11Bush

Heh - at least you were able to refrain from informing her that you still had your ‘gun’. :-)


114 posted on 10/12/2009 12:20:15 PM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (The emperor has no pedigree.)
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To: reaganaut1

Zero tolerance simply means, I am the government and I cannot ever think rationally for fear I will offend some minority, because he thinks he is being treated differently. So there you have it, a punk brings a switchblade to school, and I punish him. So to be fair to the punk, I must say all knives are bad, even the ones that are not and punish everyone else. Now that is fairness isn’t it? I am the government and I understand fairness, you are too stupid to.


115 posted on 10/12/2009 12:46:56 PM PDT by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter(the Godfather of Terror) allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: Uncle Hal

When I was in high school in the sixties, I was taking a speech class that required us to do a speech using visual aids. One of the guys decided to do his speech on his shotgun. Nobody batted an eye or cared at all.


116 posted on 10/12/2009 12:49:55 PM PDT by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter(the Godfather of Terror) allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: w1andsodidwe

All is not hopeless. Last spring my daughter’s middle school put on the musical Oklahoma—guns and all.


117 posted on 10/12/2009 12:52:54 PM PDT by sand lake bar (Obama: Take away my 1st Amendment and you'll force me to use the 2nd.)
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To: reaganaut1

“Still, some school administrators argue that it is DIFFICULT to distinguish innocent pranks and mistakes from more serious threats, and that the policies must be strict to protect students.”

This says it all right here! Zero tolerance requires zero common sense.


118 posted on 10/12/2009 1:07:59 PM PDT by christianhomeschoolmommaof3 (Best thing about Cash for Clunkers is that 90% of the Obama bumper stickers are now off the road.)
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To: reaganaut1
It’s a Fork, It’s a Spoon, It’s a ... Weapon?

I'm with the school on this one...that kid could turn out to be a cereal killer!

119 posted on 10/12/2009 1:11:04 PM PDT by Onelifetogive (Liberals are always one genocide away from Utopia.)
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To: Hegemony Cricket

Like scissors which the schools have in every classroom. LOL!


120 posted on 10/12/2009 1:14:17 PM PDT by christianhomeschoolmommaof3 (Best thing about Cash for Clunkers is that 90% of the Obama bumper stickers are now off the road.)
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To: massgopguy

It had a knife on it as well. I noticed that no one else answered your question. Funny comments though!


121 posted on 10/12/2009 1:16:21 PM PDT by christianhomeschoolmommaof3 (Best thing about Cash for Clunkers is that 90% of the Obama bumper stickers are now off the road.)
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To: MrB

When they outlaw homeschools, only outlaws will have homeschool! ;)


122 posted on 10/12/2009 1:19:18 PM PDT by christianhomeschoolmommaof3 (Best thing about Cash for Clunkers is that 90% of the Obama bumper stickers are now off the road.)
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To: reaganaut1

123 posted on 10/12/2009 1:20:18 PM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution - 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY

Ditto that.


124 posted on 10/12/2009 1:34:56 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Well, at least he actually DID SOMETHING to earn his prize.


125 posted on 10/12/2009 1:38:27 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: DUMBGRUNT

Relative???


126 posted on 10/12/2009 1:40:51 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: Onelifetogive
I'm with the school on this one...that kid could turn out to be a cereal killer!

Or a math murderer.

127 posted on 10/12/2009 1:42:40 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: 11Bush
She smugly asked what I would do without my 'gun' and I informed her that I could use the simple items on the table to kill her and half the people in the room before anyone could even dial 911.

Walking through Tampa airpot once. I was past security and near the gates, in a gift/souvenir shop, and noticed a coffee mug. A ceramic coffee mug, next to a glass beer mug. I started looking around the store, to see what else an evil minded person could use.

Incredible!

But hey, they've checked an 85 year old womans shoes to make sure she's not carrying a nail file.

128 posted on 10/12/2009 1:56:18 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: 11Bush

Just think, if someone did start shooting in the restaurant...your SIL would’ve made a good shield.


129 posted on 10/12/2009 2:04:50 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: gogogodzilla

Thats what insurance policies are in place for.


130 posted on 10/12/2009 2:06:54 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
Good thing he didn’t have a No. 2 pencil. Those are deadly in the right hands. :)

Decades later I still have the tip of one embedded in my leg.

131 posted on 10/12/2009 3:36:03 PM PDT by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|Remember Neda Agha-Soltan|TV--it's NOT news you can trust)
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To: mountn man

Eh, that still feeds the ‘frivolous lawsuit’ beast, though.


132 posted on 10/12/2009 4:27:47 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: All

they can have my spork when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers


133 posted on 10/12/2009 5:41:38 PM PDT by Armedanddangerous (I think youre so full of inconsolable rage you don't care who you hurt)
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To: reaganaut1

FGS, this country has gone mad and I’m so fed up with it.


134 posted on 10/12/2009 6:12:11 PM PDT by publana (Obama, you will not intimidate me into not voicing my opinions.)
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To: Still Thinking
I grew up in a small rural farming town.... with a ridiculously liberal and intolerant public school. Well, a friend of mine came from a lower-income family; subsistence farming was a necesity that made ends meet. Well, he would buy a nice pair of jeans and wear them until they looked "worn." Then, he would wear them on the farm. Well, graduation day, my friend is standing there, wearing his full length blue robe; the first male in his family to graduate from high school..... and one of our lovely administrators told him he wasn't allowed to wear jeans under the robe (because you could just definitely tell /sarc). Any other pair of pants, but not jeans. Or, he couldn't walk. When he explained all he had were jeans, they didn't have money for clothes they didn't wear, he was told he couldn't participate (we weren't the same size). Then the "administrator derided him for not having pants that weren't jeans.

He drove his mother's truck home; found an old ratty pair of hand-me-down turquois courdoroy pants and had to run to catch up to the rest of the grads already marching to the field. And they still tried to stop him from participating.... "because he was late!!!"

135 posted on 10/12/2009 6:36:30 PM PDT by Repeat Offender (While the wicked stand confounded, call me with Thy Saints surrounded)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

Good thing he didn’t have a No. 2 pencil. Those are deadly in the right hands. :)
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Apparently they are, I once had the unpleasant experience of being introduced to a skinny little guy who had done time in prison and he solemnly assured me that he could kill any man with a sharpened wooden pencil or a ball point pen. Ever seen the movie “Casino”?

This “zero tolerance” crap really is ridiculous. I’ll bet they have no objection to students wearing leather belts even though they are perfect for strangling someone but if a kid came in with his pants held up by a piece of rope they would freak out.


136 posted on 10/12/2009 7:01:21 PM PDT by RipSawyer (Trying to reason with a leftist is like trying to catch sunshine in a fish net at midnight.)
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To: RipSawyer

Ever seen the movie “Casino”?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Or the latest Batman?


137 posted on 10/12/2009 7:04:46 PM PDT by wintertime (People are not stupid! Good ideas win!)
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To: Repeat Offender

What an asshat. I hope he’s managing a McDonalds somewhere today.


138 posted on 10/12/2009 7:15:44 PM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: sionnsar

I do, too. Right knee. My stupid little sister. ;)


139 posted on 10/12/2009 7:24:00 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: RipSawyer

Oh, you betcha! One stab in the eye, they other up the nose...scrambled brains, to put it nicely.

It really is stupid. These things happen every few months here in ‘The People’s Republik of Madistan’ a ‘gun free’ zone. Well, except for the criminal element. For some reason, THEY always seem to have the guns and the innocent victims aren’t allowed to carry so much as a can of pepper spray!

Stupid socialist aging hippies running this town!


140 posted on 10/12/2009 7:27:36 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
Well, except for the criminal element. For some reason, THEY always seem to have the guns and the innocent victims aren’t allowed to carry so much as a can of pepper spray!

That's because the whole "disarmn the criminals" (ex-cons used to have their 2nd Amendment rights restored) was really just a ploy to weaken everyone's rights in order to take them away.

How hard a guess would it have been to figure out that the habitual criminal wouldn't obey the lawy and get his hands on guns, while the guy who wants to go straight (or who just made a mistake) would stay away?

And gee, the disarming wasn't just of those who'd used guns in committing their crime, or of violent offenders in general, but of all ex-cons. What's the reasoning behind that?

And since it was obviously going to be a problem to keep guns out of habitual criminals' hands, that meant there were going to have to be ever more draconian measures leveled against the average citizen.

To the point where the only ones who have guns are the habitual criminals.

Now I may have exaggerated the planning behind this, but surely the path forward could have been rather easily seen.

But the public buys it all, even today, hook, line and sinker, and so we have to pay the price for our collective stupidity.

Look to what's being done to the hated and despised to see where your own rights are being eroded.

A winner every single time for the self-styled elites who want to own you: "When they came for...., I did nothing, for I was not..."

America -- a great idea, didn't last.

141 posted on 10/12/2009 8:04:11 PM PDT by Clint Williams (Read Roto-Reuters -- we're the spinmeisters | America -- a great idea, didn't last.)
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To: Still Thinking

It does sound like they were trying to frustrate your daughter and the other students. Good thing you decided to homeschool again. :-)

I know a woman whose shy, quiet daughter was assaulted in middle school by another student (a boy). She never saw it coming; he attacked her from behind. When asked why, he said he “just felt like it.” The principal didn’t want to involve the police, so the parents called the police. One of the parents worked at the school, and the principal was mad at them for calling the police. It was crazy. If anyone should be punished, a student who assaults another that way should be punished. I don’t know if the boy ever was disciplined.

When they pulled their daughter out to homeschool, the teachers were mad at them. Go figure. The mother came to our homeschool meetings and, of course, there were a bunch of us there who’d had bad experiences with schools. ;-) There also were some former teachers homeschooling their own children. One woman’s son was ill and had learning disabilities, and he’d been assaulted at school again and again. The kids assaulting other kids are the ones who need punishment. Not the kids using the wrong color pens or whose teachers were too busy to sign their work!


142 posted on 10/12/2009 8:54:47 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: Clioman
Would this mean that playing ‘paper-rock-scissors’ could be punished because it is simulates prohibited behavior? Just askin’, is all...I’ve got my lawyer hat on this morning.

I'd be OK with that so long as the punishment is simulated instead of real, too.

143 posted on 10/12/2009 9:18:51 PM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Tired of Taxes
Good thing you decided to homeschool again. :-)

No doubt. Now she's well adjusted, hard working and organized, and still as smart and creative as ever. No way she'd fit in there. ;-)

144 posted on 10/12/2009 9:26:15 PM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Tired of Taxes
It felt like the poor thing was trapped in the educational version of The Hudsucker Proxy:
"You punch in at 8:30 every morning, except you punch in at 7:30 following a business holiday, unless it's a Monday, then you punch in at 8 o'clock. Punch in late and they dock you. Incoming articles get a voucher, outgoing articles provide a voucher. Move any article without a voucher and they dock you. Letter size a green voucher, oversize a yellow voucher, parcel size a maroon voucher. Wrong color voucher and they dock you! 6787049A/6. That is your employee number. It will not be repeated! Without your employee number you cannot get your paycheck. Inter-office mail is code 37, intra-office mail 37-3, outside mail is 3-37. Code it wrong and they dock you! This has been your orientation. Is there anything you do not understand, is there anything you understand only partially? If you have not been fully oriented, you must file a complaint with personnel. File a faulty complaint and they dock you!"
[spoken at about 160 words per minute]

145 posted on 10/12/2009 9:33:05 PM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Still Thinking

LOL. I never saw that movie, but based on that one scene, yes, it does sound like your daughter was trapped in the educational version of that fictional company. ;-) Good thing she escaped. Too bad for the other students, though. I wonder if any of them now have an obsession with pen ink colors, or if they’re rebelling now by using different colors of ink. ;-)


146 posted on 10/12/2009 9:48:07 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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To: Clint Williams

“That’s because the whole ‘disarmn the criminals’ (ex-cons used to have their 2nd Amendment rights restored) was really just a ploy to weaken everyone’s rights in order to take them away.”

Ya think? Of course it is. Anything that infringes upon our personal and property rights is un-Constitutional. That’s why the LibTards have worked so hard for 50 yers to capture the education system, the courts, the media, etc.

They’re evil. And they’re patient.


147 posted on 10/13/2009 7:01:52 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: I_Like_Spam

I saw that show. Prisoners are really resourceful.


148 posted on 10/13/2009 10:38:11 AM PDT by Ptarmigan (God Hates Bunnies. God Loves Ptarmigans)
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To: wintertime

Although government schools are funded by tax funds, when I was attending it was from local and state funds. Public schools through high school were funded with property taxes. The federal government played no part, with the possible exception of ROTC where the military provided some equipment, uniforms, and military instructors. Although the state colleges and universities were usually larger, most colleges and universities were sponsored and funded by churches, foundations and tuition.

The problem intensified with the creation of the Department of Education and the infusion of federal funds into schools for school lunch programs. That was the jumping off point for many other federally funded programs. Any school receiving funds for school lunches had to accept federal “assistance” for the other intrusions or lose their entire federal funding.


149 posted on 10/13/2009 11:40:28 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: JrsyJack

Actually he isn’t old enough to even be a Cub Scout ( let alone a Boy Scout). At six he would be a Tiger Scout.


150 posted on 10/13/2009 11:59:03 AM PDT by wintertime (People are not stupid! Good ideas win!)
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