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American flags banned from vehicles at Albany apartment
democratherald.com ^ | Oct. 9, 2009 | Cathy Ingalls

Posted on 10/13/2009 6:22:31 PM PDT by CitizenM

Jim Clausen was "shocked" when the manager of the Oaks Apartments in Albany told him he could face eviction if he did not remove the American flags that fly from his Jeep and motorcycle when they are parked at the complex.

Barb Holcomb, who manages the Oaks Apartments at 1440 Geary Circle S.E. for owner Stan Keller, said Clausen is correct.

She is requiring that tenants take off any flag that flies from their vehicles, and that includes the Mexican flag and college team flags.

Political and religous signs at a tenant's unit also are not permitted.

"I'm trying to avoid any conflict," Holcomb said. "I have a problem when tenants' rights to free speech come into contact with other tenants' rights of peaceful enjoyment. This policy is not a violation of anyone's civil rights.

"We're a diverse community here, and we've had previous problems with this sort of thing," she said.

Jann Carson, the associate director of the ACLU of Oregon, agreed that Clausen and other tenants' civil rights are not being violated under the new policy

SNIP

Holcomb said she wanted to implement the flag policy earlier but the previous manager would not say anything to the tenants.

"We have a new manager who is taking care of this," she said. "It's a small housekeeping problem we want to take care of."

American flags banned...

(Excerpt) Read more at democratherald.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: american; communism; constitution; hoa; oldglory; socialism
So...if these liberal, namby-pamby nitwits around the country who are banning the use of American flags ON OUR OWN PROPERTY (CARS BELONG TO THE PEOPLE WHO BUY THEM) can determine where we can place our flags...Then eventually we will only be able to put them up in our own bedrooms. We cannot let these people rule us.

This is America. We have the right to put our AMERICAN flag on our own property. The country is certainly going mad allowing a few tell us not to fly our own country's flag. I am so angry I am seeing STARS AND STRIPES!

1 posted on 10/13/2009 6:22:31 PM PDT by CitizenM
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To: CitizenM

Does she also make people remove bumper stickers from their cars? And if not, I’d put the biggest American flag sticker that I could find on there....or lots of little ones!


2 posted on 10/13/2009 6:24:44 PM PDT by Prince of Space
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To: CitizenM
"I'm trying to avoid any conflict," Holcomb said. "I have a problem when tenants' rights to free speech come into contact with other tenants' rights of peaceful enjoyment. This policy is not a violation of anyone's civil rights.

Well isn't she just plain vanilla. Never mind the whole free speech thingy in the constitution.

3 posted on 10/13/2009 6:27:02 PM PDT by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: CitizenM

C’mon guys the ACLU said civil rights were not being violated. They would never lie or only pursue cases that help their Socialist Progressive agenda.

/sarc


4 posted on 10/13/2009 6:27:15 PM PDT by I Hate Obama ("Sorry I had a fight in the middle of your Black Panther Party." -Forest Gump)
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To: CitizenM

>>Political and religous signs at a tenant’s unit also are not permitted.

American flags are now considered a “political sign”?? I guess they’re right. 48% of America lives under the Stars and Stripes, and 52% live under the big “O” flag.


5 posted on 10/13/2009 6:28:15 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Question O-thority!)
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To: CitizenM

I would have 2 things to say. The first, why don’t you come on over and take it. The second, see you in court.


6 posted on 10/13/2009 6:31:38 PM PDT by enduserindy (Conservative Dead Head)
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To: CitizenM
other tenants' rights of peaceful enjoyment

That must be somewhere in a sub paragraph of the 1st ammendment just before the 'right not to be offended'. I'm not sure where that is. Maybe I should ask a Muslim.

7 posted on 10/13/2009 6:34:10 PM PDT by tbpiper
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To: CitizenM

” “We’re a diverse community here, and we’ve had previous problems with this sort of thing,” she said. “

Just realized this must be one of those “10 illegals live in a 1 bedroom” apartments.


8 posted on 10/13/2009 6:34:22 PM PDT by enduserindy (Conservative Dead Head)
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To: CitizenM

I think I would hire one of those airplane banner guys to fly a huge flag around in circles over that place for a few days... see how they like that!


9 posted on 10/13/2009 6:35:21 PM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: Prince of Space

I’d really be tempted to paint my car with the flag.


10 posted on 10/13/2009 6:37:34 PM PDT by svcw (Legalism reinforces self-righteousness - it communicates to you the good news of your own goodness)
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To: Prince of Space

My drapes would be flags. My clothes would be flags my shower curtains would be also..


11 posted on 10/13/2009 6:39:26 PM PDT by GregB (God sent us Sarah Palin!!!!!!!!!)
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To: CitizenM

Why doesnt Miss Holcomb, try minding her own friggin business.


12 posted on 10/13/2009 6:40:42 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: GregB

You could project a waving flag onto the clouds overhead at night!


13 posted on 10/13/2009 6:41:41 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (RATs, nothing more than bald haired hippies.)
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To: CitizenM

My view here is simple. It’s the owners property, the owner makes the rules. If I lived there I’d move. If it was my property and somebody was flying a commie flag they’d move. Quickly.


14 posted on 10/13/2009 6:42:36 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what you can do for Obama.)
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To: I Hate Obama
Jann Carson, the associate director of the ACLU of Oregon, agreed that Clausen and other tenants' civil rights are not being violated under the new policy

It would be different if it didn't include the American flag!

I'm sick of and offended by people who are offended!

15 posted on 10/13/2009 6:43:42 PM PDT by lonestar (Obama is turning Bush's "mess" into a catastrophe.)
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To: CitizenM

The previous manager didn’t enforce this. Now she comes along and does. I’m curious what the owner has to say about it.


16 posted on 10/13/2009 6:44:28 PM PDT by 2111USMC
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To: CitizenM
"I'm trying to avoid any conflict," Holcomb said. "I have a problem when tenants' rights to free speech come into contact with other tenants' rights of peaceful enjoyment. This policy is not a violation of anyone's civil rights...Hmmm - when people see something on TV which offends them, they're told to change the channel - here's an idea for those whose "peaceful enjoyment" might be upset by seeing a flag they don't like (what a bizarre notion) - look the other way.......
17 posted on 10/13/2009 6:44:44 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: CitizenM
This policy is not a violation of anyone's civil rights.

Civil rights? If she gets any gubmint money, it might be a violation of Constitutional rights.

18 posted on 10/13/2009 6:46:30 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (RATs, nothing more than bald haired hippies.)
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To: CitizenM
other tenants' rights of peaceful enjoyment

What? Where's the "right of peaceful enjoyment"? If it exists, the Obozo is violating mine by destroying the country which I peacefully enjoy.

19 posted on 10/13/2009 6:49:36 PM PDT by hsalaw
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To: CitizenM

“he could face eviction if he did not remove the American flags”

I work in the industry, and though state laws vary, I seriously doubt he could be evicted for breaching this rule if it wasn’t specified in his lease. They can choose not to renew his lease, or make him sign on to the new rule at renewal time, and evict him then, but I can’t imagine any judge would side with the landlord in this case, even in the most pro-landlord jurisdictions in the country.


20 posted on 10/13/2009 6:51:27 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
The people affected could buy one of these and see if a US Flag is then okay...
21 posted on 10/13/2009 6:52:21 PM PDT by C210N (A patriot for a Conservative Renaissance!)
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To: jwalsh07

“It’s the owners property, the owner makes the rules.”

Yes, that is true. However, if the owner has entered into a signed lease agreement with the tenant, then the owner can’t simply evict a tenant for breaching some new rule they just made up. If the rules weren’t part of the signed lease, then the owner won’t be able to use the courts to enforce them on that particular tenant.


22 posted on 10/13/2009 6:55:07 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

Right on, right on.


23 posted on 10/13/2009 7:01:40 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what you can do for Obama.)
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To: CitizenM

Can you say, “Class action law suit!”


24 posted on 10/13/2009 7:02:01 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Deficit spending, trade deficits, unsecure mortages, worthless paper... ... not a problem. Oh yeah?)
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To: CitizenM

From the response all over the net, this rule will be changed quite quickly.

As someone pointed out in the comments of one of the original stories, Oregon’s veteran’s license plate has an American flag on it. Is the owner of a car with veteran’s plates supposed to remove them?


25 posted on 10/13/2009 7:03:57 PM PDT by MediaMole
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To: CitizenM

Here’s the management company contact info:

I feel a “Levin surge” of calls coming on...

Oaks Apartments
(Keller Development Company*, Oaks Apartments*)
1440 Geary Cir SE
Albany, OR 97322-6823
Phone: (541) 967-1284


26 posted on 10/13/2009 7:08:37 PM PDT by Allison_Wonderland
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To: CitizenM

Please give them a call: (541) 967-1284.


27 posted on 10/13/2009 7:08:50 PM PDT by politicalmerc (Washington DC Tea Party? What Tea Party? Who are all these people Michelle....?)
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To: Prince of Space
She's in an un-defensible position. First, I'd put one of those inside sunshades in my windshield eg. http://www.become.com/shop?&bskuid=840179320&pid=650000000&cid=0&q=&reab=150&nofilter

Then I'd get some inside window tint/screen such as http://www.monstermarketplace.com/Automotive/Landing1936a631.html

Bumper stickers? You bet... Maybe paint the entire car red white and blue.

Then I'd start inundating them with complaints about other people's promoting foreign, un-American cars. Every Honda, Toyoda, BMW, etc. that had a visible company logo... I'd write/email a complaint. If they can't see my flag, I don't want to see their foreign support.

She'll quickly see that what she is trying to do is pointless and doomed to failure.

28 posted on 10/13/2009 7:09:27 PM PDT by ThunderSleeps (obama out now! I'll keep my money, my guns, and my freedom - you can keep the change.)
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To: CitizenM

Diverse community here. Oh, in other words, full of faggots.


29 posted on 10/13/2009 7:10:42 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (Got Questions? Need Answers? LOOK TO THE CROSS! You will find them there.)
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To: CitizenM

Translation: We’ve got ourselves a buttload of illegal aliens living here and they are bound to make trouble.


30 posted on 10/13/2009 7:13:05 PM PDT by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: Bryanw92

“48% of America lives under the Stars and Stripes, and 52% live under the big “O” flag.”

43% live under the American flag, 45% live under the Mexican flag, leaving 12% under Obama.


31 posted on 10/13/2009 7:14:15 PM PDT by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: jwalsh07

The Lessee has property rights that can’t be violated outside of the contract. Also there is a first amendment issue.


32 posted on 10/13/2009 7:16:45 PM PDT by Rebelbase (This is the time of year when ACORNS fall.)
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To: CitizenM

Sounds like this woman needs a lesson taught to her.


33 posted on 10/13/2009 7:20:24 PM PDT by coon2000 (Give me Liberty or give me death!)
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To: Rebelbase
The lease is determinative but not the subject upon which I commented.

Property rights are being lost left and right in this country. See Kelo.

My property is my property, you can exercise your rights on public property or your own. When you're on my property I make the rules.

Anything else is more collectivist crap sweeping the nation from left to right. My property isn't your castle. You fly my castles flag or you leave.

34 posted on 10/13/2009 7:21:58 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what you can do for Obama.)
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To: svcw
"I’d really be tempted to paint my car with the flag."


35 posted on 10/13/2009 7:23:45 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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To: MediaMole

Some great reviews of the Oaks Apartments here...

Particularly like the one comparing the place to a gulag.

http://www.apartmentreviews.net/ratings/Oregon/albany/Oaks-Apartments.htm


36 posted on 10/13/2009 7:23:54 PM PDT by MediaMole
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To: CitizenM; All

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF-8&q=oaks+apartments+albany+oregon&fb=1&gl=us&hq=oaks+apartments&hnear=albany+oregon&view=text&latlng=14346188745816406796&dtab=2&oi=md_reviews&sa=X&ei=zTfVSqzDIJnyNJXq4J4G


37 posted on 10/13/2009 7:32:44 PM PDT by peggybac (Peggy "Sweet Peach" bac <--my mob name)
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To: C210N

Normally I’m against flag burning but.... :-)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350246215053&_trksid=p2759.l1259#ht_1056wt_665


38 posted on 10/13/2009 7:48:08 PM PDT by The Chief (Volunteer Fire Fighter since 1989, 20+ years!)
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To: Allison_Wonderland

I just gave them a piece of my mind. The owners of that aapartment complex is Stankorp at 541-926-5062. I left a message among other things telling them that that b**ch of a manager should be fired.


39 posted on 10/13/2009 8:24:11 PM PDT by Merlinator (Take them all down...one czar at a time)
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To: jwalsh07

Your view is also a bit inaccurate. Just because you own something that others rent, does not give you the ability to enact tenant rules that violate state and federal laws, much their the state and federal constitutions. They aren’t lords and their properties aren’t fiefdoms. They can make up regulations in contracts but they can’t make up anything they want and take away people’s rights and liberties that are protected. The flag is a political symbol and is an expression of protected speech.

She will be sued for this and she will lose big time.


40 posted on 10/13/2009 8:48:11 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Prince of Space

What about one of those car wraps? lol


41 posted on 10/13/2009 10:38:43 PM PDT by TNdandelion (I'd rather have FedEx run my healthcare than USPS.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Yep, sue their asses off! It’s all they understand.


42 posted on 10/13/2009 10:47:00 PM PDT by MaxMax (Obama can't play in the Olympic reindeer games)
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To: hsalaw
What? Where's the "right of peaceful enjoyment"? If it exists, the Obozo is violating mine by destroying the country which I peacefully enjoy.

My thoughts exactly. What happens if someone is offended?What are they afraid will happen? I would love to see how they detail the 'legal grounds' for the "right" of peaceful enjoyment. Also, how would an apartment lease cover items (flags, stickers) that are on your vehicle? (Your car cannot be red, white or blue in color, and meet the owner's non-offensive model standard....? Huh?)

43 posted on 10/14/2009 1:53:40 AM PDT by 24-7Freeper
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To: CitizenM
Anyone offended by the American flag SHOULD NOT be in USA. Get out NOW!

Oh and the massive flag flying happened because of 9/11. Has that manager forgotten?

Evictions used to be for non payment of rent or damages. Serious stuff. Being evicted for flying a flag is stupid.

Makes one wonder what types of people dwell in that place who are upset with any flag.

44 posted on 10/14/2009 2:11:58 AM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: CitizenM
management told them the flags could be offensive because they live in a diverse community.

What kind of people are living there? It seems like every single person interviewed was against the flag ban. Are they really going to evict the entire complex? Who will pay the rent then?
45 posted on 10/14/2009 6:20:16 AM PDT by Brown Deer
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To: Secret Agent Man
Your view is also a bit inaccurate. Just because you own something that others rent, does not give you the ability to enact tenant rules that violate state and federal laws, much their the state and federal constitutions. They aren’t lords and their properties aren’t fiefdoms. They can make up regulations in contracts but they can’t make up anything they want and take away people’s rights and liberties that are protected. The flag is a political symbol and is an expression of protected speech.

Hardly. My view is based on freedom and property rights. Your view is that of a typical statist who can regulate and legislate my private property rights out of existence.

And people wonder why the Obamas of the world keep gaining traction? The answer is right here on this thread.

46 posted on 10/14/2009 8:42:39 AM PDT by jwalsh07 (Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what you can do for Obama.)
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To: politicalmerc

Heck, give Barb a call:

Barb Holcomb
(518) 761-1000


47 posted on 10/14/2009 9:17:30 AM PDT by Vasilli22
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To: MaxMax

And I want to emphasize that I am all for landlords being able to be in control of their properties. When you have other people involved, they have constitutionally protected rights at the federal and state levels, and even though you own a building doesn’t give them the magical power to deny/violate those other peoples’ rights.

Restricting political speech ain’t a power a landlord has. Noise problems, yes. Garbage on the lawn? Yes. Ability to have pets? Yes. Having people staying there not on the lease? Yes.

The problem here is that it’s easy to deal with things when you own the property and you’re the only one on it. It’s another thing when other people are in what you own. You are bound by law to deal with people a certain way and it prevents you from doing things you’d like to do because it’s YOUR property. It’s why I am NOT a landlord.

But for example, you can’t legally not rent to people because you don’t like their skin color. Or their sexual orientation, if you are made aware of it. Or their religion. You could not refuse to rent to them if their politics were different than yours. You may not be able to rent to them based on their criminal history.

Conversely you can decide to not rent to them if their credit rating has problems, they don’t have a job (no income to pay rent), they have pets and you don’t allow pets in your building, etc.

Landlords don’t have omnipotent powers and I know this as I have extremely close friends who own properties and rent to others. I am amazed at what they have to deal with. They know the law and write up very favorable contracts for themselves and they are also legal (they know the laws and what they can and cannot put in a contract) and not allowing people to fly the American flag on their car isn’t something they can tell them NOT to do because they are renters.

Now in this particular story and situation, something else might be going on in the complex, such as mexican and american groups of renters getting charged up over amnesty/immigration or something but if that is the case, they still don’t have the right to force people to take those flags off their vehicles, and if they think that one little thing is going to fix or stabilize what’s going on with those people they are nuts.


48 posted on 10/14/2009 9:35:27 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: CitizenM

I micturate on this diversity, though I will never peaon on it..


49 posted on 10/14/2009 10:47:28 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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