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Florida plan advises hospitals to bar some patients in event of pandemic flu outbreak
Florida Sun Sentinel ^ | Oct. 18, 2009 | Florida Sun Sentinel

Posted on 10/18/2009 8:30:29 PM PDT by varina davis

Excerpt

(Excerpt) Read more at sun-sentinel.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: bar; bars; florida; flu; hospitals; influenza; outbreak; pandemic; patients; plan
Obamacare comes to the Sunshine State?
1 posted on 10/18/2009 8:30:29 PM PDT by varina davis
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To: varina davis

Anyone who didnt vote for Barry ???


2 posted on 10/18/2009 8:33:10 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: varina davis

Well truthfully, the last place a person undergoing chemo should be is a hospital filled with people who have an airborne transmitted infection. I think it makes sense, keep the hospital for those with the flu (in an epidemic) and send immuno-compromised patients to another flu-free facility.


3 posted on 10/18/2009 8:41:33 PM PDT by ktscarlett66 (Face it girls....I'm older and I have more insurance....)
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To: varina davis
Tough decision. If you only have ten ventilators and more patients who need them, then you have to pick the ten who are likely to survive with them but unlikely to survive without them. If you use the ventilator to try to save someone who likely won't survive anyway, then two die when one could otherwise be saved. It is a decision I'm glad I don't have to make.

There is a difference between a short term decision like this from a long term decision on Obamacare. Obamacare is about limiting the number of ventilators (and other medical treatments) at a national level. In the short term this is just limited by the fact that there are only so many and new ones can't be produced quickly enough, while in the long term Obamacare's panels will decide that even if more can be produced that they won't be.

4 posted on 10/18/2009 8:44:42 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Soon everyone will win a Nobel Peace Prize for not being George Bush...well, except for George Bush.)
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To: varina davis

Triage during a medical emergency is certainly nothing new. I don’t see what some are becoming so agitated about.


5 posted on 10/18/2009 8:48:36 PM PDT by Prokopton
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To: KarlInOhio

Definitely seems like it would be a Solomon like decision. Hope mistakes won’t be made in judgment.


6 posted on 10/18/2009 8:51:08 PM PDT by varina davis (Life is not a dress rehearsal)
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To: varina davis; All

... and I suppose they'll be turning away
the Illegal Aliens too, right?


7 posted on 10/18/2009 8:53:55 PM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: ktscarlett66

Yes, but without some of the care found only in hospitals the only flu free facility might be the morgue.


8 posted on 10/18/2009 8:55:22 PM PDT by celtic gal
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To: ktscarlett66

agree


9 posted on 10/18/2009 8:57:52 PM PDT by Global2010 (Strange We Can Believe In)
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To: varina davis
The document addresses one of the most heart-rending issues in medicine: What to do if the number of people in need of ventilators and other treatment dramatically exceeds what is available.

This is the reality if there should be a flu pandemic where serious respiratory complications were common. IIRC, from a discussion on this there are about 80,000 ventilators in the US. Whatever the number is, it's not enough. And that is the only occasionally discussed, but possibly most severe problem that might result from a flu pandemic where respiratory complications were common.

But the odds are still with us that that won't happen.

10 posted on 10/18/2009 9:01:25 PM PDT by Will88
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To: Prokopton

Thanks that needs to be repeated.
Often.


11 posted on 10/18/2009 9:01:58 PM PDT by Global2010 (Strange We Can Believe In)
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To: BP2
and I suppose they'll be turning away the Illegal Aliens too, right?

No, to avoid being racist, all illegals and convicts will go to the head of the line. Ordinary citizens will get care only if there is any left over.

12 posted on 10/18/2009 9:11:25 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Sarah and the Conservatives will rock your world.)
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To: varina davis

13 posted on 10/18/2009 9:18:39 PM PDT by The Comedian (Evil can only succeed if good men don't point at it and laugh.)
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To: varina davis

A DNR shouldn’t be the determining factor. You could have a previously healthy 55 y.o. with a DNR, and an already frail 85 y.o. who wants the works, thank you.

But DNR does not mean Do Not Treat! It’s not even clear if they are talking no admitting for flu, or no admitting for anything, from a heart attack to a head injury.


14 posted on 10/18/2009 9:29:44 PM PDT by heartwood
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To: varina davis

This is quietly happening all over the US. Hospitals (at least the ones that have their act together), are trying to set up “parking garage facilities”, based on three things, proximity, severity and time.

Imagine the typical, otherwise healthy flu patient (that is, no underlying asthma, diabetes, heart and lung problems, etc.) They realize they are too sick to stay at home, so they go to the hospital, and are put in the parking garage facility.

Proximity.

Their situation is that they need some “urgent”, but not “emergent” care, yet there is not a whole lot the doctors can do, until if and when their flu gets worse. *However* they are near the doctors, in close proximity to more intensive health care if they need it, and under the gaze of those who will recognize when they need it. They also have sanitary facilities if they have vomiting and diarrhea.

Severity.

They start having some difficulty breathing, so at first they can go to a large plastic tent with more oxygen in the air than ordinary air. If this is still not enough, then they can be issued a small oxygen tank to breathe pure oxygen from. Otherwise they are still awake and aware, and breathing on their own. They are also being issued antibiotics to fend off any secondary bacterial infection.

Then some of them become incoherent. At that point, this group needs to be moved to the influenza wing inside the hospital. It is likely that a percentage of them will be needing assisted ventilation and IV medicines.

Time.

When people arrive at first, the triage nurse will ask them when their symptoms started to show. This starts the clock for the timetable of the disease. After a large number of patients, doctors will have a pretty good idea of the typical “windows” of the course of the disease.

This helps separate people out who are getting through the disease on their own, and won’t be needing more serious care. They can be put aside, to eventually be sent home, as they have passed through the worst of it.

So put it all together, and the parking garage facility is a good way of handling an epidemic, while minimizing the disruption.


15 posted on 10/18/2009 9:30:09 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: varina davis
Would it go something like this:

No Jobs For White Males

16 posted on 10/18/2009 10:07:45 PM PDT by blam
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To: varina davis

It says that some may be removed from ventilators with the equipment going to others.

That works until Mr. Muckinfuch shows up with his daughter and ORDERS someone removed so his daughter can have the equipment.

OR Mr. Muckinfuch offers to write a big check to the hospital so his daughter can have the equipment.


17 posted on 10/18/2009 11:00:20 PM PDT by FrogMom (No such thing as an honest democrat!)
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To: varina davis

bump


18 posted on 10/19/2009 3:45:46 AM PDT by lowbridge
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To: Will88

How much do ventilators cost? Can someone buy one for their family as a sort of insurance and keep it in stock if ever needed? I see no reason why there should be only 80,000 ventilators for 300,000,000 people, and one would think hospitals could keep hem in inventory like anything else.


19 posted on 10/19/2009 4:18:55 AM PDT by wildandcrazyrussian
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To: wildandcrazyrussian
I see no reason why there should be only 80,000 ventilators for 300,000,000 people, and one would think hospitals could keep hem in inventory like anything else.

Ventilators are like anything else, the entities that use them (hospitals) have determined how many they typically need and acquired them on that basis, probably plus few spares. The reality is we'd run out of everything if a pandemic were severe enough. We'd run out of vaccines, antivirals, ICU rooms and hospital rooms in general, and probably OTCs used for flu, and probably alternatives like Vitamin C and anything else believed to help prevent or treat the flu.

But there has been only one pandemic that serious (1918) in the past century, so the odds are always on our side.

I think ventilators are just the first serious shortage that would show up in a pandemic with widespread respirtory complications.

20 posted on 10/19/2009 6:59:34 AM PDT by Will88
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To: ktscarlett66

I just got an email this morning about my newborn nephew who was refused admission to a hospital because he has swine flu. They don’t want swine flu around the sick kids there. That makes some sense, I’m sure, but I have to wonder if it’s because of his other diagnosis. He just received a diagnosis of a rare disorder that will cause severe retardation. I’m wondering if ObamaThink / ReichMorality is hitting.


21 posted on 10/19/2009 9:12:06 AM PDT by twigs
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To: varina davis

FLORIDA CAN KISS RETIREES GOOD BYE - THEY’RE NOT GOING TO WAIT TO BE MURDERED BY THE STATE...


22 posted on 10/19/2009 10:48:25 AM PDT by GOPJ (Liberal NFL doesn't think Rush is good enough for them? They feel the same about us-BOYCOTT)
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To: BP2
... and I suppose they'll be turning away the Illegal Aliens too, right?

No. It would be "racist" to turn away ANY dem victim group - - illegals, gays, and blacks go to the head of the line at the hospital. YOU die.

23 posted on 10/19/2009 10:51:19 AM PDT by GOPJ (Liberal NFL doesn't think Rush is good enough for them? They feel the same about us-BOYCOTT)
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To: varina davis

Almost all large scale emergency plans call for keeping the truly doomed and the probably going to make it on their own out of hospitals for the people who need and can benefit from hospital care. No city in the country has enough hospital beds for 10% of he people to get sick or injured, so if things get ugly tough decision will have to be made.


24 posted on 10/19/2009 10:56:33 AM PDT by discostu (The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression)
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To: varina davis

bump to the top


25 posted on 10/19/2009 6:00:34 PM PDT by GOPJ (Liberal NFL doesn't think Rush is good enough for them? They feel the same about us-BOYCOTT)
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To: celtic gal

Well if we get to Epidemic state (as opposed to Pandemic), clinics or other facilities might need to be set up to handle different illnesses and injuries, keeping them separate from the flu. I mean, if we’re talking epidemic such as 1918, millions upon millions are going to be critically and mortally ill. You simply cannot have someone come into a hospital for their twice weekly chemo under those circumstances. An outpatient clinic away from hospital might be the better answer to that, since most chemo is administered outpt anyway.

Or newborns, babies and toddlers who are sick with non-flu illnesses or have compromised systems - why on earth would you want to bring them to a hospital where a severe flu is raging? Some plan should be in place for situations such as this, not necessarily because of the swine flu but any epidemic. Most hospitals have more than one building, certain areas could be quarantine areas, instead of everyone piling into one ER waiting room or going into the main hospital for chemo or your mammogram or whatever.


26 posted on 10/20/2009 5:15:33 AM PDT by ktscarlett66 (Face it girls....I'm older and I have more insurance....)
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