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Do Elite Private Colleges Discriminate Against Asian Students?
US News & World Report ^ | 7 October 2009 | Kim Clark

Posted on 10/20/2009 4:24:19 PM PDT by Bob017

A recent study of the applicants to seven elite colleges in 1997 found that Asian students were much more likely to be rejected than seemingly similar students of other races. Also, athletes and students from top high schools had admissions edges, as did low-income African-Americans and Hispanics.

Translating the advantages into SAT scores, study author Thomas Espenshade, a Princeton sociologist, calculated that African-Americans who achieved 1150 scores on the two original SAT tests had the same chances of getting accepted to top private colleges in 1997 as whites who scored 1460s and Asians who scored perfect 1600s...

(Excerpt) Read more at usnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: admissions; affirmativeaction; asianamericans; highereducation; preferences
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1 posted on 10/20/2009 4:24:21 PM PDT by Bob017
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To: Bob017
How can the case for Asians be made without implicating the policies that favor blacks & hispanics?

Never mind, I'm sure the media and academia will find a way to blame white racism.

2 posted on 10/20/2009 4:27:49 PM PDT by skeeter (Pterocarya fraxinifolia)
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To: Bob017

One question I would ask is, “Are Asian student more likely to cheat in groups than other students?”

I know from my experience that the communal expectations of many international Asian students seems to help excuse their cheating while attending US institutions. The general excuse I’ve heard? Domestic students have an unfair advantage because English is their native language.


3 posted on 10/20/2009 4:29:17 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (There is no "gray area" on issues. See things from both sides, but choose the right side.)
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To: Bob017; Landru; mkjessup
My brother used to work for a university with a bowling alley. I'll never forget him telling me a bunch of new Chinese students went bowling and they thought they bought the rented shows for 75 cents. He said you could see rented bowling alley shoes all over the university.......lol
4 posted on 10/20/2009 4:29:42 PM PDT by Dem Guard
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To: Bob017

Asians have shown that they are good at PREPARING for tests.

Here in New York City, I see lots of SAT preparation review schools.

If you ever come here, I invite you to visit a few of them and count the PERCENTAGE of Asian students attending them compared to blacks, Hispanics and Whites....

You’ll be surprised (or won’t be as the case may be) to see that almost 90% of the attendees are Asians.

Blacks and Hispanics are almost non-existent in these classes.


5 posted on 10/20/2009 4:35:01 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (wH)
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To: Bob017

Asians have shown that they are good at PREPARING for tests.

Here in New York City, I see lots of SAT preparation review schools.

If you ever come here, I invite you to visit a few of them and count the PERCENTAGE of Asian students attending them compared to blacks, Hispanics and Whites....

You’ll be surprised (or won’t be as the case may be) to see that almost 90% of the attendees are Asians.

Blacks and Hispanics are almost non-existent in these classes.


6 posted on 10/20/2009 4:35:16 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (wH)
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To: ConservativeMind

Cheating on the SAT is rather difficult, unlike cheating in a class. The East Asian kids work harder than others.


7 posted on 10/20/2009 4:37:26 PM PDT by achilles2000 (Shouting "fire" in a burning building is doing everyone a favor...whether they like it or not)
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To: SeekAndFind

How much scope is there to improve through SAT prep(i’m not from the US)?


8 posted on 10/20/2009 4:43:40 PM PDT by Bob017
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To: SeekAndFind

I have several anecdotal instances of my sons asian friends who
spent their Saturday mornings at Kumon or Huntington doing
loads of prep for test taking. They did not do sports.
My kids were always playing football or baseball or basketball
on Saturdays.


9 posted on 10/20/2009 4:44:08 PM PDT by gussiefinknottle (woof!woof!woof!)
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To: skeeter

“How can the case for Asians be made without implicating the policies that favor blacks & hispanics?

Never mind, I’m sure the media and academia will find a way to blame white racism.”

Well the ironic thing is that while they are discriminating in favour of two minority groups, they are also discriminating against another minority. It’s a very contradictory racial spoils system.


10 posted on 10/20/2009 4:46:28 PM PDT by Bob017
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To: gussiefinknottle

At my kids high school, the Asians sit together at lunch and study. My kids and their friends just don’t get that. It makes me laugh. Asians don’t seem to be quite as social.


11 posted on 10/20/2009 4:47:41 PM PDT by dandiegirl
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To: Bob017
Tough.


• Asian Americans voted for Barack Obama by a 3 to 1 margin, with a majority registered as Democrats.

http://www.aaldef.org/article.php?article_id=403

12 posted on 10/20/2009 4:58:22 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Hear us, O Bama: Mmm, mmm, mmm.)
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To: Bob017
Here in CA. the Asians make up about 40% of the students at the various UC campuses while they are only around 10% of the general population.
13 posted on 10/20/2009 4:58:37 PM PDT by Uncle Hal
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To: achilles2000

That makes it all the more bizarre that they often have test banks available for the next years’ transfers to study from.


14 posted on 10/20/2009 5:02:47 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (There is no "gray area" on issues. See things from both sides, but choose the right side.)
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To: dandiegirl

“At my kids high school, the Asians sit together at lunch and study.”

I think there can definitely be cultural differences in attitudes to study. I attended high school & university in NZ & generally the asian students were pretty diligent (a fair few had english as a second language).

One the other hand I had a room mate from Hong Kong who did very little work, played rugby and would come out drinking all the time.


15 posted on 10/20/2009 5:05:23 PM PDT by Bob017
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To: Uncle Hal

“Here in CA. the Asians make up about 40% of the students at the various UC campuses while they are only around 10%
of the general population.”

Would that be because of Proposition 209 banning race preferences?


16 posted on 10/20/2009 5:07:15 PM PDT by Bob017
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To: Bob017

Yes they absolutely do. And some of them will even admit it.


17 posted on 10/20/2009 5:11:40 PM PDT by Antoninus (Sarah Palin -- I love her because she freaks out all the right people.)
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To: Bob017
At my kids high school, the Asians sit together at lunch and study. My kids and their friends just don’t get that. It makes me laugh. Asians don’t seem to be quite as social.

You'll not get a straight story out of Admissions people, unless they speak in private in hushed tones. Then you'll hear the "boring" rap--that Asians are underrepresented when it comes to adding to campus atmosphere and energy.

Stanford undergraduate is nearly 25-29% Asian. You can take a look at a crowd shot of the student section at a Stanford football game,and Asian's don't make up one in four. So too for other campus energy type events. The library might be a different story.

18 posted on 10/20/2009 5:13:16 PM PDT by Plutarch
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To: Uncle Hal
the Asians make up about 40% of the students at the various UC campuses while they are only around 10% of the general population.

Jokes on Campus circles : MIT stands for Made In Taiwan; UCLA stands for University of Caucasians Lost among Asians. UCI (UC Irvine ) stands for University of Chinese Immigrants :)
19 posted on 10/20/2009 5:19:24 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (wH)
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To: Bob017
Hispanics were twice as likely to win admission as whites. African-Americans were at least five times as likely to be accepted as whites [with equal qualifications].

No matter. Race hustlers will continue to insist that the cards are stacked against these populations.

20 posted on 10/20/2009 5:24:21 PM PDT by freespirited (Liberals are only liberal about sex & drugs. Otherwise, they want to control your life. --DHorowitz)
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To: Jeff Chandler

“• Asian Americans voted for Barack Obama by a 3 to 1 margin, with a majority registered as Democrats. “

Well yea, if you saw the Democratic outreach to them, you’d understand why. As far as values go, it’s not even close, Asians have much more in common with conservatives. The only problem is that Republicans still don’t understand that they they can be a VERY helpful minority...much like the Jews finance Democrats and help them win close races, by voting as a block.


21 posted on 10/20/2009 5:24:36 PM PDT by BobL
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To: skeeter; Bob017
How can the case for Asians be made without implicating the policies that favor blacks & hispanics?

Exactly. You can't discriminate in favor of someone without simultaneously discriminating against someone.

22 posted on 10/20/2009 5:26:38 PM PDT by marron
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To: achilles2000; ConservativeMind

I’ve known a few white kids with perfect (in those days) 1600 SAT scores who were rejected by various Ivies. It’s not that unusual at the top schools (i.e., Harvard, Princeton, Yale). From the same group of students, Harvard DID accept the student with the lowest SAT, who happened also to be a nationally ranked athlete. Go figure.

As to the group/in-class cheating by Asian students, it seemed endemic among the group I knew to the point that I think their culture and ours clash about what constitutes cheating. Cribbing another student’s notes or lifting from another’s paper is not, to their thinking, cheating.


23 posted on 10/20/2009 5:32:53 PM PDT by EDINVA
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To: Jeff Chandler

“• Asian Americans voted for Barack Obama by a 3 to 1 margin, with a majority registered as Democrats.”

So much for the vaunted Asian American IQ ‘advantage’.


24 posted on 10/20/2009 5:38:24 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: BobL

“much like the Jews finance Democrats and help them win close races, by voting as a block.”

Jews are also disproportionately government trough feeders, so voting Democrapic is voting for their cash flow continuation.


25 posted on 10/20/2009 5:41:02 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: Dem Guard

“I’ll never forget him telling me a bunch of new Chinese students went bowling and they thought they bought the rented shows for 75 cents.”

And for a dollar, you get egg roll!


26 posted on 10/20/2009 5:44:48 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: SeekAndFind

“UCLA stands for University of Caucasians Lost among Asians.”

LMAO!!


27 posted on 10/20/2009 5:47:33 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: GladesGuru

““• Asian Americans voted for Barack Obama by a 3 to 1 margin, with a majority registered as Democrats.”

So much for the vaunted Asian American IQ ‘advantage’.”

Same with those transplants from India.


28 posted on 10/20/2009 5:52:16 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: stephenjohnbanker
LMAO!!

Here's more -- UCSB ( University of California at Santa Barbara) stands for University of Carousing, Sex and Booze.
29 posted on 10/20/2009 6:04:26 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (wH)
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To: SeekAndFind

I can believe that. They have their own little town ;-)


30 posted on 10/20/2009 6:06:16 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: SeekAndFind
"Asians have shown that they are good at PREPARING for tests."

Yes. And they continue to do so afterwards in college. That is how they acquire solid knowledge. Asians are frequent attendees of not only test-preparation courses but also professors' office hours.

In sum, they do well what a student is supposed to do to acquire knowledge.

31 posted on 10/20/2009 8:16:52 PM PDT by TopQuark
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To: dandiegirl
"Asians don’t seem to be quite as social."

It's like me coming to your office at 10a.m and, having observed you being busy, declaring that you don't know how to have fun.

You'd reply that my remark is silly: you do what you HAVE to do to bring home the bacon.

Asian kids are quite social. Their sense of duty prevents them from having fun and socializing at all times, just as your work ours do.

We encourage sports and recreation. Do you see no connection with the fact that our education is a joke when compared with most developed countries?

32 posted on 10/20/2009 8:21:44 PM PDT by TopQuark
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To: Bob017

Why did they choose just 1997 for the recent study?


33 posted on 10/20/2009 8:21:52 PM PDT by ThomasThomas (It always easier to find spelling errors after you post.)
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To: Bob017
"mate from Hong Kong who did very little work, played rugby and would come out drinking all the time."

Which correlates very well with the fact that Hong Kong is culturally very Westernized.

34 posted on 10/20/2009 8:23:52 PM PDT by TopQuark
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To: BobL
"by voting as a block."

Neither Jews nor Hispanics nor Asians vote as a block. Blocks exist in the minds (and on the graphs) of the political analysts of elections.

35 posted on 10/20/2009 8:27:16 PM PDT by TopQuark
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To: Jeff Chandler
"Asian Americans voted for Barack Obama by a 3 to 1 margin"

And what does this have to do with their attitude towards education, the topic being discussed?

36 posted on 10/20/2009 8:28:39 PM PDT by TopQuark
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To: Bob017

Do Elite Private Colleges Discriminate Against Asian Students?
Not if they want to have a Math Team. Seriously though, if I ran a college, I would discriminate FOR Asian students.


37 posted on 10/20/2009 8:30:40 PM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
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To: TopQuark
And what does this have to do with their attitude towards education, the topic being discussed?

The topic being discussed is not a group's attitude towards education.

The topic at hand is discrimination towards a particular group. I merely pointed out that my ability to give a rat's ass about the group being oppressed is quite low, given that group's support of their oppressors.

38 posted on 10/20/2009 8:39:46 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Hear us, O Bama: Mmm, mmm, mmm.)
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To: BobL
Republicans still don’t understand that they they can be a VERY helpful minority...much like the Jews finance Democrats and help them win close races, by voting as a block.

Unfortunately, the legacy of the Republican party is one of blue-blood, Rockefeller elites. Reaching out to minority groups will have to be done by conservatives, who only constitute a percentage of the Republican Party, and who by no means control it.

39 posted on 10/20/2009 8:42:56 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Hear us, O Bama: Mmm, mmm, mmm.)
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To: Jeff Chandler
"The topic at hand is discrimination towards a particular group. I merely pointed out that my ability to give a rat's ass about the group being oppressed is quite low, given that group's support of their oppressors."

Thank you for the clarification.

You are factually incorrect, however. The allegation is that Asians are treated unfairly by the universities. You have somehow weaved into this political parties. Does that make sense to you?

40 posted on 10/20/2009 8:43:05 PM PDT by TopQuark
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To: Bob017

I would think that a PRIVATE college could choose whom they will and will not accept...for whatever reason.


41 posted on 10/20/2009 8:45:00 PM PDT by mo
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To: mo

It’s called Asian Fail.


42 posted on 10/20/2009 11:08:53 PM PDT by gman992
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To: SeekAndFind
"Asians have shown that they are good at PREPARING for tests. Here in New York City, I see lots of SAT preparation review schools. If you ever come here, I invite you to visit a few of them and count the PERCENTAGE of Asian students attending them compared to blacks, Hispanics and Whites...You’ll be surprised (or won’t be as the case may be) to see that almost 90% of the attendees are Asians. Blacks and Hispanics are almost non-existent in these classes."

I lived in a Big 10 town, a relatively small one as they go. Your description sounds identical the the entire campus on Saturday game-days.

While the Asian students were busily scurrying back & forth from lab, engineering buildings, library etc. One of my brand couldn't help noticing & thinking: "Hmmmmmm".

43 posted on 10/21/2009 3:26:36 AM PDT by Landru (If you want to perform for 15 mins, 30 mins, 1 hour, 5 days, a YEAR! Call...)
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To: Dem Guard; mkjessup; stephenjohnbanker
"My brother used to work for a university with a bowling alley. I'll never forget him telling me a bunch of new Chinese students went bowling and they thought they bought the rented shows for 75 cents. He said you could see rented bowling alley shoes all over the university...lol"

BWWWWWWHAAAAAAAAA!!!
Here they're worried about H1V1 when there're sure signs of The Big PX Syndrome all over the place. LOL

{Of course you meant, "shoes". ~eh? LOL}

44 posted on 10/21/2009 3:31:28 AM PDT by Landru (If you want to perform for 15 mins, 30 mins, 1 hour, 5 days, a YEAR! Call...)
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To: SeekAndFind

Holy cow—they’re not going to give themselves a 450-point SAT advantage by taking a prep class!


45 posted on 10/21/2009 3:31:32 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: gussiefinknottle; dandiegirl

And black kids would relatively say the same thing about white kids.

Within the safe racial group, the brighter kids have more intellectual interests, on average, than the less-bright ones.


46 posted on 10/21/2009 3:34:50 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: Bob017
"Well the ironic thing is that while they are discriminating in favour of two minority groups, they are also discriminating against another minority. It’s a very contradictory racial spoils system."

LOL!!!!!!
Well *you* may call the situation, "ironic", my friend, we Yanks call it equality. But I can appreciate your, ahhhhh, confusion. Because obviously you're confused. LOL!!!!!!

Think all that's nuts?
Just wait'll you SEE what passes for "diversity". LOL!!

47 posted on 10/21/2009 3:37:31 AM PDT by Landru (If you want to perform for 15 mins, 30 mins, 1 hour, 5 days, a YEAR! Call...)
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To: Landru

You would make a sharp editor, that ‘shows’ vs ‘shoes’ typo went right past me, lol

SOOO in accordance with the topic of this thread, time for an MKJ politically incorrect joke (repeated for chuckles, not to make fun of anyone) going back a good 50 years:

Q - Why don’t they have telephones in China?

A - Because of Mr. Wong. Everyone is always “winging the wong number”

(groan) ;)


48 posted on 10/21/2009 5:32:45 AM PDT by mkjessup (The media can find the most obscure data about Sarah Palin but can't find 0bama's birth certificate!)
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To: mkjessup; Dem Guard; The Comedian; stephenjohnbanker
"You would make a sharp editor, that ‘shows’ vs ‘shoes’ typo went right past me, lol" Well thanks my friend, but au contraire.
1) I've known the doofus --God Bless 'em-- my entire life, have been correcting his spelling at least over the past 20 years. And DON'T believe 'em if he tells ya I wrote his love letters to his X, explaining why she split. ;^)
2) I catch all but my own gaffes. Is that a cruel juxtaposition of life, or what? LOL
3) The real accomplishment here is what time of day I caught it. :o)

"SOOO in accordance with the topic of this thread, time for an MKJ politically incorrect joke (repeated for chuckles, not to make fun of anyone) going back a good 50 years:
Q - Why don’t they have telephones in China?
A - Because of Mr. Wong. Everyone is always 'winging the wong number'
(groan) ;)

BWWWWHAAAAAA!!!
{{{{applause}}} Stand up Joe, take a bow!! LOL!!

Comedian, more joke box material here!
You got serious competition as it seems the ol' tome's really true: Everyone does want to get into the act. LOL!!

49 posted on 10/21/2009 7:01:15 AM PDT by Landru (If you want to perform for 15 mins, 30 mins, 1 hour, 5 days, a YEAR! Call...)
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To: Landru

And for my next act...

Classified personal ad in Beijing newspaper:

“WANTED - 1000 lb Chinese cook, looking for 1000 lb Chinese waitress. Object: ‘Won Ton Soup’.

[cymbal crash] lol

Hey, thanks folks (budda boom budda bing), I’ll be here all week, try the veal!


50 posted on 10/21/2009 7:48:39 AM PDT by mkjessup (The media can find the most obscure data about Sarah Palin but can't find 0bama's birth certificate!)
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