Skip to comments.Arguing pilots fly 150 miles past runway
Posted on 10/23/2009 4:53:30 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi
Many a person has missed their stop on a bus or train at one time or another because they were engrossed in a weighty conversation or a book.
But when the pilots of Northwest Airlines flight 188 became distracted it had more serious consequences as they overflew their Minneapolis destination by 150 miles.
"They were in a heated discussion over airline policy and they lost situational awareness," the US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) explained.
When the pilots got their "situational awareness" back they turned the Airbus A320 around and landed it safely on Wednesday evening, apparently without any of the 144 passengers realising they had taken a roundabout route.
(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...
10 bucks says they were sleeping.
Dumb and dumber.
Their "heated discussion over airline policy" was all in ZZZZZs
Were the pilot and co-pilot married?
I know I have missed an off ramp or two while trying not to argue with the wife.
Sounds like the ‘’air bags’’ were working overtime(scene from Airport)
They can kiss their piloting career goodbye.
Those 99 dollar fares don’t buy much nowadays!
They will be continuing the argument on the unemployment line.
The cockpit voice recorder tells all and would have been pulled immediately so I’m giving this story credibility. NW pilots are some of the most militant in the industry and with Delta running the show now I’m sure there’s lots to “discuss” in the cockpit. Flying the plane? Nah, not so much of a priority.
I often has a loss of "situational awareness" after supper while watching the TV, but at least I'm not piloting a jet aircraft.
There was a significant problem at the Minneapolis airport on Tuesday, as most flights were delayed.
Perhaps they were expecting a delay in landing on time ....
The friendly skies are so safe...
I once went on business trip with a guy who was a private pilot and brought along a hand held GPS (which constantly gave the wrong altitude in a pressurized cabin because is believed the barometric altimeter more than the GPS). They’re lucky they didn’t have someone like that on board.
They’ve already admitted how it happened... the crew was engaged in a “heated discussion over airline policy” and lost situational awareness.
must be democrats
I believe he’s saying that his friend has a GPS for small private plane use that provides altitude data, and chooses from an internal barometric pressure gauge and altitude readings from satellite data, and that the device uses the pressure as the default preference. This would, of course, be rendered fatally stupid in a pressurized cabin.
Them sleeping is what is being investigated this morning. A flight attendant had to tell them they were past their destination.
If they were that distracted, maybe they'd be better off in a job that allows for total loss of awareness, like lawn jockey (if that't racist, then roaming gnome).
You might be on something. Are u in MBS?
Hey, way to Go, nAvY!
“”They were in a heated discussion over airline policy and they lost situational awareness,”
Whoever can utter BS like that; has a great future making infomercials.
They were sleeping.
I guess the scrambling Canadian fighter planes gave them their first clue?
MBS? Obviously if I have to ask what it is I’m not in it.
As a side note:
Flight School Bills White House, DNC for Revenue Lost to TFR
October 22, 2009 Temporary flight restrictions (TFRs) due to the movement of the President of the United States or other high-level officials have become a common disruption to general aviation since 9/11. TFRs essentially halt many general aviation activities, like flight training, but GA businesses affected by the shutdowns havent often attempted to collect their lost revenue. When Oakland Flyers, a flight school based at Oakland International Airport, had to cease operations for 17 hours during last weeks visit to the Bay Area by President Obama to attend a fundraiser, owner Jim Gray decided to invoice the White House and the Democratic National Committee, (DNC) which hosted the event, in attempt to collect lost revenue.
We invoiced lost revenue for the aircraft rental and for the flight instructors which are paid independently, Gray said. The flight instructors lost money on this deal as well. They get paid by the students directly. We put together an invoice for both items.
The invoice totaled $2,565 for 10 canceled flights, which had been scheduled from late afternoon on October 15 until 10 a.m. the next day. Even though the airports location is clear across San Francisco Bay from the presidents physical location in downtown San Francisco, it was still inside the 10-mile no-fly ring, meaning all training flights were grounded during the TFR. Gray feels its not fair for his business to be shut down for an extended period of time due to a partisan function, as opposed to official government business, which a reason he would more readily accept. He also takes issue with the fact that airline and cargo operations were allowed to continue operations because they operate under instrument flight rules.
Reaction in the GA community has been very supportive according to the numerous e-mails Gray has received from across the country. There are flight schools that have also been affected by these kinds of things, Gray said. Pilots are thinking that these TFRs are punitive to general aviation for really no valid reason. By doing this (sending the invoice), maybe it will raise some attention for everybody to put in their two cents and well see what happens.
Gray says the DNC did contact the flight school to inquire about the dollar amount of the invoice, but he has not personally spoken to anyone. The DNC did not return calls to EAA.org regarding this story.
I never heard of a handheld GPS with a built-in barometric altimeter.
But they are available, and I’m sure it would come in handy for measuring cabin altitude.
“10 bucks says they were sleeping.”
A pilot being interviewed on Fox and Friends now is alluding to that. It happens. Quite scary.
Did the passengers get the extra 300 frequent flyer miles?
back when grown men looked male and grown and were funny too
It is amazing to watch the littlest thing totally, I mean totally, become the center of focus to the exclusion of everything else.
Meanwhile, there you are sailing along at Flight O-My-God at the speed-of-heat wondering when the argument will stop!
Negative. I'm not buying that. There would be too many radio calls and navigation cues to miss...if they were awake.
I wouldn’t take that bet. Regardless, they are in deep doo doo.
Airport code for Saginaw MI.
I know I have missed an off ramp or two while trying not to argue with the wife.
Permission to steal this line?
Math question - If airplane “A” is flying at 490 KIAS, how many minutes will it take to fly 150 miles?
A) Your mother wears boots
B) The dog ate my homework
C) Less than 20 minutes
D) I don’t “do” math, try someone else....
I can see two boneheads arguing for 20 minutes. I do find it hard to understand how they missed so many radio calls.
In any case, their flying days are over. Too many other qualifed pilots that want that job.....
But, in one instance I watched the argument go for a full
“leg” (about 2 hours block time).
After landing, it continued while we exchanged pax (on a hard stand).
Then it continued as we taxied out. After take-off the tower politely said “Goodbye XXX, next time please ask for takeoff clearnce”. A lot of silence in the cockpit.
True story, but, it happened in a part of the world that was far, far away from the FAA.
No damage, no foul. s/off
It was a little hand held GPS unit for use by private pilots in unpressurized cabins. It incorporated a barometric altimeter, and the capability for the pilot to input a local reference altitude to account for variations in surface air pressure. Normally pilots can adjust their cabin altimeters to indicated the known altitude of the runway before take off to account for changes in local barometric pressure. Airliners are pressurized to about 8000 ft., which means that when you are flying at 30,000 feet a barometric altimeter inside the cabin with you will indicate 8000 ft.
Apparently, the pilots were off the air ( not responding to any tower ) for well over an hour while covering at least 600 miles.
Why F 16 were not scrambled is interesting ?
They fell asleep, all veteran pilots know that’s exactly what happened.
Lucky that they fell asleep over Wisconsin with their transponders on so that the tower could re-route other traffic.
Imagine if they were approaching Philly, then flew into NYC air space asleep for 600 miles.
Yikes, I don't think tower controllers should be polite about that sort of thing. Did this happen before or after Tenerife?
That’s their story and they are sticking to it! (sarcasm)
If they fell asleep they’re in even bigger trouble, because they told investigators they were having a heated discussion, and the voice recorder will tell the truth very quickly. I really doubt they were asleep, because they were certainly wide awake by the time they were explaining things to investigators on the ground, and they would have realized that any story they gave would be compared to the voice recorder.
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