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Openly Carrying Guns Can Be Unwise, Even When Itís Legal
Pajamas Media ^ | Oct. 25 | Clayton Cramer

Posted on 10/25/2009 1:33:08 PM PDT by AJKauf

I recently wrote an article for Shotgun News making the argument that while open carry of firearms is legal in many American cities, it may not be particularly wise. Open carry in a number of states is not just legal, but protected by the state constitution. But just because something is legal, even constitutionally protected, doesn’t mean that it is wise.

Carrying a gun openly in a city can — and does — offend people who might not have a strong opinion one way or the other about gun control. Boise, Idaho, is about as pro-gun as any big city in the United States. But open carry advocates decided last year to go to the Boise Zoo with openly carried handguns. It was completely legal — but the reaction of other patrons was distinctly negative.

We have a very reasonable concealed weapon permit law in Idaho (as with most states), and there are lots of Idahoans who are armed but carry their weapons concealed. I’m sure that the other patrons of the Boise Zoo know that. Yes, it is somewhat illogical to be disconcerted by seeing something in public that you know may still be all around you, but concealed. But there are a lot of areas where human beings are illogical — and pretending that you are Mr. Spock doesn’t change that human beings often respond with emotions, not logic.

Handguns and our excretory organs have something in common: we know that they are very, very common, they are necessary, and many people have them under their clothes./....

(Excerpt) Read more at pajamasmedia.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; guns; opencarry; shallnotbeinfringed; shotguns
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1 posted on 10/25/2009 1:33:08 PM PDT by AJKauf
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To: AJKauf

I don’t want crooks to know I am armed. I want it to be a complete surprise when I come up shooting.


2 posted on 10/25/2009 1:37:12 PM PDT by Molon Labbie
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To: AJKauf

This is just silly! Once the practice becomes common there will be no more attention paid to this than whether the girls are wearing short skirts (okay, maybe that is a stretch)! Practice makes perfect and the more common the practice, the more normal it becomes. We need more normal here...


3 posted on 10/25/2009 1:38:30 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: Molon Labbie

You’re right there...but I am all for insuring the right first and open carry does that. For protection and not really knowing who is carrying, I would agree with you...


4 posted on 10/25/2009 1:41:05 PM PDT by Deagle
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Deagle

I will agree completely.


6 posted on 10/25/2009 1:46:00 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: AJKauf

Your rights - use them or lose them.


7 posted on 10/25/2009 1:46:39 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (I AM JIM THOMPSON!)
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To: AJKauf

Sorry...but the argument of being “wise” just didn’t get made with me. I grew up in rural KY...several people carried their “hammer” openly. Was no big deal and no one wet their panties. It would have been “unwise” to rob any of the stores downtown with so many packing.


8 posted on 10/25/2009 1:50:37 PM PDT by WKUHilltopper (Fix bayonets!)
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To: AJKauf

This is a matter of a right not exercised becomes a lost right. When people are intimidated by the custom of appearing unarmed, to a point where they become unarmed, the issue is mute. I would work diligently to make concealed carry a universal norm. After all, its not the appearance of your gun (unless your an anti-gun law writer) but, how you use it.
I am not excited about open carry as like most people who have ever been uniformed police know. It’s cumbersome and it hurts your back after a time. However, if that is truly important to you, it’s not much different from wearing green spiked hair. As you have said, covering certain orifices is usually preferable.


9 posted on 10/25/2009 1:51:08 PM PDT by Steamburg ( Your wallet speaks the only language most politicians understand.)
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To: AJKauf

Bovine excrement.


10 posted on 10/25/2009 1:53:38 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: AJKauf
A right not exercised becomes abnormal and a point of argument to exist. I say keep carrying.

To handle firearms a person needs to be sane, mature and wise. I expect a person to be sane, mature and wise in all of their dealing with others. I am amazed that this is no longer a general expectation of adults in our society.

11 posted on 10/25/2009 1:53:54 PM PDT by Ghengis
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To: Steamburg

Personally, I am more comfortable concealed. The gun is easily taken from a holster by someone sneaking up behind you if they can see it. Pickpockets can steal a wallet out of a jacket pocket without you knowing it. Just my personal preference. Especially in a mall or crowded space. Live in Tx, have a license.


12 posted on 10/25/2009 1:57:07 PM PDT by TStro
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To: AJKauf

I have my permit, however open carry would be great. First I would be able to ignore snide remarks by left turds like I do now when I wear my conservative t-shirts. The best part of open carry is avoiding being robbed by a thug who see’s my weapon and looks for greener pastures. Those who ignore the warning can continue at their own peril!

No CCW holder I know wants to have a situation happen but it never hurts to be ready.


13 posted on 10/25/2009 2:00:17 PM PDT by JohnD9207 (REGISTERED RIGHT WING THUG!)
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To: AJKauf
Open carry is not always a good idea under every possible circumstance.

Still, it should be up to the individual. Period. End of discussion. What works for one person may not work for another.

Additionally, law enforcement should be trained to know the law inside and out and not to overreact when they receive a report of a citizen open carrying.

Finally: if stores and businesses wish to restrict firearms, they should, by law, be required to post their terms prominently at the entrances to their property. That way, everyone who enters, carrying or not, knows the terms and can't complain about anything.

14 posted on 10/25/2009 2:02:36 PM PDT by mountainbunny (Mitt Romney to Conservatives in 2012: Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!)
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To: TStro

Well, that type of criminal is looking for a quick out anyway...not exactly likely though. Anyone of minimal intelligence would place himself out of distance of anyone he knew was carrying when attempting to commit a crime. Understand your thought process, but almost sure that it is NOT what a criminal would think...(unless desperate needing a quick crack fix)...and even then unlikely.


15 posted on 10/25/2009 2:06:28 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: mountainbunny

In Texas, even if they post a sign prohibiting concealed weapons, they can only ask you to leave if you’re caught. If you refuse, you are trespassing. Our DPS teacher discussed this in our Tx CCW class


16 posted on 10/25/2009 2:06:29 PM PDT by TStro
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To: TStro

A lot of cops have been killed by their own weapons in just this situation. I have carried (even before CCW) for years. Think about it. I can get to my gun plenty quickly if I need it. And I have the element of surprise. I have shown my gun several times over my 56 years. Kept me from being assaulted every time.


17 posted on 10/25/2009 2:09:00 PM PDT by TStro
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To: 2111USMC

Clayton Cramer knows more about CCW laws and this subject than you do. He’s personally done more than you have to advance gun rights in this country than a dozen freepers preaching to the choir. You may recall an academic named Michael A. Bellesiles who wrote a book called “Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture.” Cramer proved it was bullshit and Bellesiles ultimately lost his professorship at Emory University. You are an idiot.


18 posted on 10/25/2009 2:09:27 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: Deagle

Also, I agree it should be up to the individual to decide how to carry. This is just my personal preference. It has always worked for me.


19 posted on 10/25/2009 2:11:27 PM PDT by TStro
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To: TStro

Agree with that - individual responsibility. I also think that the Police do have additional restrictions placed upon them that makes it a problem when they do decide to draw their weapons...sometimes to their detriment at times...


20 posted on 10/25/2009 2:14:21 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: AJKauf
I have a CCW in Florida. I don't think I would open carry, if the state allowed me to.

Way too many liberals would be wetting themselves and fouling the streets. In some areas of town they would need a street cleaner to suck up the pee < / s >

21 posted on 10/25/2009 2:22:53 PM PDT by Popman (Am I still a racist if I disgree with Obama white half ???)
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To: Popman

Sounds like an excellent reason to Open Carry!


22 posted on 10/25/2009 2:24:31 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: AJKauf

More liberal arguments to push conservatives into the closet. The left offend all they want in order to normalize liberalism. At the same time, the right is told, don’t offend. Hogwash.


23 posted on 10/25/2009 2:29:09 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: AJKauf

Some of us live in a state such as Maryland where we cannot carry concealed or otherwise.

It sucks. Highest taxes in the country. Democrat run legislature, Democrat tax and spend Governor, Steny Hoyer for a Congressman.


24 posted on 10/25/2009 2:32:07 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Venturer

You need to fight for your Constitutional rights!


25 posted on 10/25/2009 2:35:40 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: Popman

Criminals interviewed in prison report they LOVE open carry because it tells them who to Pop first when robbing a store or bank. Open carry folks are targets. An old Navy saying is ships are targets in a war while subs are the real threat because they can’t be seen. Open carry folks like to strut their egos brought upon by an exposed gun. Concealed carry folks go about life life cops off duty knowing they have the upper hand. Duh.


26 posted on 10/25/2009 2:35:50 PM PDT by Your6
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To: AJKauf
Guns don't kill people,
I Kill People.
27 posted on 10/25/2009 2:37:22 PM PDT by Bon mots
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To: Deagle
Practice makes perfect and the more common the practice, the more normal it becomes.

I think the author was arguing that instead of open-carry becoming normal and accepted, citizens who previously had no strong feelings for or against gun control might be inclined to support laws against open carry after seeing weapons legally on display at places like zoos.

His example was that the negative public reaction that ensued after the zoo incident could potentially damage RKBA rights. His point is not without some merit.

28 posted on 10/25/2009 2:38:31 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Molon Labbie
Thats why all uniformed and many not unied conceal their firearms?
29 posted on 10/25/2009 2:40:06 PM PDT by sausageseller (http://coolblue.typepad.com/the_cool_blue_blog/)
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To: Drew68

I understood his ideas (and it is a problem) but take the opposite view. He is simply wrong... Enough said...


30 posted on 10/25/2009 2:42:11 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: Your6
Personally, I doubt I would open carry unless I was in a very dicey part of town, basically a sign to wanna be thugs: leave me the h*** alone

Bottom line is, I'm a private person and like my privacy. Way too many people would ask stupid questions, call 911, point and act stupidity.

We have lost the public opinion war. Guns even in law abiding citizens SCARE people. Scared and ignorant people do stupid things.

31 posted on 10/25/2009 2:43:33 PM PDT by Popman (Am I still a racist if I disgree with Obama white half ???)
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To: Your6

Heh...Sorry to hear that you take the criminal’s take as your own... You and they are similar - always take the soft way out! For goodness sakes, don’t put up a fight or you might get hurt - you girly you...heh.

You are sooo... wrong that it is indecent to discuss!


32 posted on 10/25/2009 2:44:55 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: mountainbunny

if stores and businesses wish to restrict firearms, they should, by law, be required to post their terms prominently at the entrances to their property.

My only caveat is that by doing so, they take on the
responsibility for your safety. Same with court houses
and city hall.
If I have to disarm to enter, YOU are guaranteeing my safety. It’s a question I have long thought about, what if you leave your piece in the car to go into city hall or a store and are mugged on the way in, are they not libel for your safety , you were forced to go about defenseless, I could see it if you had a gun check in the lobby, but they don’t want that responsibility also.

I have to admit I’ve never tried to check my pistol at
city hall or court house but I’ve never SEEN any facilities
or notice that such WAS available.
Tet.


33 posted on 10/25/2009 2:45:42 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Deagle
open carry

I don't have a problem with open carry.

34 posted on 10/25/2009 2:49:11 PM PDT by WhirlwindAttack (Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm the rest of his life ;)
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To: tet68

That is such an excellent point! Now if those that are forced to disarm and the “business” fails to protect them are found at fault - well, then things might well change...


35 posted on 10/25/2009 2:49:31 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: AJKauf

Historically, concealed carry equated to evil intent. Honest men carried guns openly. Then again, good defensive guns were large and hard to conceal anyway; walking around with a shotgun or a 7”-barreled pistol was no big deal.

Funny thing is, the whole leftist whining about the need for carry permits is “we need to know who is packing”; OK, so let me carry openly and you’ll know.


36 posted on 10/25/2009 2:51:33 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (Obamacare violates the 4th Amendment.)
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To: Popman
We have lost the public opinion war.

The ignorance of the public should be not be a reason I should not open carry. Many responsible gun owners like me have no problem educating the masses, even the police on OC law.

There are tons of people that have no idea that open carry is "legal" in my state of Indiana and its not really my problem they are SCARED when the see a weapon.

37 posted on 10/25/2009 2:51:45 PM PDT by sausageseller (http://coolblue.typepad.com/the_cool_blue_blog/)
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To: AJKauf
...but the reaction of other patrons was distinctly negative.

Exercising the 2nd Amendment isn't for cowards. It takes guts to accept the responsibilities of being an armed citizen.
38 posted on 10/25/2009 2:54:07 PM PDT by Dr.Zoidberg (Warning: Sarcasm/humor is always engaged. Failure to recognize this may lead to misunderstandings.)
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To: Popman
I have a CCW in Florida. I don't think I would open carry, if the state allowed me to.

Way too many liberals would be wetting themselves and fouling the streets. In some areas of town they would need a street cleaner to suck up the pee < / s >


Watch This Short Video Clip!

Click Here
to watch this great video.

Watch and listen


Look What Happened to Me for Doing Open Carry!

39 posted on 10/25/2009 2:54:34 PM PDT by B-Cause (Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: RKV
I shouldn't have let that one phrase tick me off. Kind of like a liberal, I reacted emotionally instead of intellectually.

I live in a state that is “may issue”. “May issue” in many areas equates to “no issue”. i.e. the Sheriff of our county doesn't consider “self defense” an adequate reason to issue a carry permit. There are Sheriffs in other counties in the state that actually proudly admit that they have never issued a CCW. Our border state is “no issue”, period.

As to being an idiot, I disagree. Misinformed, moron, half-insane maybe, but not an idiot.

40 posted on 10/25/2009 2:55:17 PM PDT by 2111USMC
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To: sausageseller

Absolutely! What’s worse is that the police have no idea what is legal and continue to attempt harass or arrest those that are law-abiding citizens... It seems that the government is more in need of education about the law rather than the citizens...


41 posted on 10/25/2009 2:55:26 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: AJKauf
Clayton, Stating your opinion about open carry can — and does — offend people who might not have a strong opinion one way or the other about open carry. Therefore, you should not state it.

Huffing and puffing about your First Amendment rights? Well you should. No citizen should ever fear exercising his rights because of someone else's pathological fear of an inanimate object or any other reason.

42 posted on 10/25/2009 2:58:55 PM PDT by magslinger (Inside every father is a Bryan Mills waiting to get out.)
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To: All
Carrying a gun openly in a city can — and does — offend people

Carrying a gun openly like the police do? How horribly offensive. I believe, however, that everybody has an equal right to be offended by my words and actions. Morons are no exception.

43 posted on 10/25/2009 3:00:23 PM PDT by KarinG1 (Please excuse any grammatical errors, as I was slobbering mad when I posted this.)
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To: magslinger

The author is saying conservatives should stay in the closet. You see, only liberal can offend. The author sounds like a blue-blood.


44 posted on 10/25/2009 3:02:05 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: 2111USMC
And possessing an engaging sense of humor too. I live in a may issue state as well, and local laws significantly limit open carry. I would prefer to be armed, but I more prefer to stay out of jail. That's a very bad choice to have to make. I feel your pain. ;>) It is my hope that the McDonald case gets cert from the Supremes and we get and incorporated RKBA with strict scrutiny. That should do in the worst of the state and local laws you and I have to deal with. Personally, I'd suggest we continue to litigate along the lines of Article 1 Section 8 after that - namely that what arms are protected are those that support the missions of the militia - an M16 with grenade launcher in every house wouldn't bother me a bit (convicted felons and the certifiably insane aside).


45 posted on 10/25/2009 3:02:23 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: AJKauf

It’s going to be a matter of de-sensitization. How about Gun Pride Parades?


46 posted on 10/25/2009 3:03:14 PM PDT by Jabba the Nutt (Are they insane, stupid or just evil?)
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To: ctdonath2

Actually, I think that might have changed from open carry was the norm to maybe the 20’s, concealed carry - or at least kept in autos - ready to rob banks. Open carry was the norm in the Western days... It became a problem when the gangsters took over...my guess...heh...


47 posted on 10/25/2009 3:04:29 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: AJKauf

When I was growing up it was called a concealed carry permit.


48 posted on 10/25/2009 3:05:59 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: aimhigh
The author has done more to promote gun rights than you have. Much more. You haven't made any effort to find out who he is. If you don't know his name, and maybe a few others like Alan Gura, Gary Kleck, David Hardy, Joyce Malcom and Dave Kopel, then you really haven't been paying attention. You may or may not agree with his position, but calling him a blue-blood is just guessing on your part. And you guessed wrong. If your could bother to inform yourself here's a couple of links.

His blog.

Link to one of his many books at Amazon.
49 posted on 10/25/2009 3:15:06 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: WhirlwindAttack
blonde one on the left can be my gelibte anytime...
50 posted on 10/25/2009 3:16:17 PM PDT by wardaddy
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