Posted on 10/27/2009 6:26:23 AM PDT by dangus
I'm not in the position for making any huge investments, and this might be in the category of just plain ignorant, but I figure this proposal might at least prompt some interesting discussion, and if its plausible, someone should do it:
The Tesla gets about 220 miles per charge. Great... if you're going somewhere less than four hours away. But if the S-class (a $50,000 "family car") is going to be someone's main car, they're certainly going to want to take longer trips with it. The problem is the car takes 8 hours to charge with 110 volts. By doubling the voltage (220 volts), it can be charged in 4 hours. But that still means it's useless for driving the kids to see Gramma.
Question: Could an 880-volt super-charger be built that could charge the Tesla in an hour... roughly the time it takes to get a good highway meal. A network of electric-vehicle charging stations at interstate rest stations would be exactly what it would take to make Tesla competitive... and such a network could probably put a profitable surcharge on the electricity delivered.
Do some simple calculations for yourself before you psot something silly
It might be more efficient to build giant catapults to launch the Tesla roadster to the next (catapult) station.
I think for something like this to be profitable, there would have to be way more than a dozen or so of the cars in service.
How about the Tesla tows a trailer with a generator and plenty of gas cans on it.
Sure, you only would need to completely redesign the Tesla to use the power plant of, say, a Japanese Bullet Train in order to handle that, but heck, if we are saying what if, why not.
Could have timeshare cars where you don’t own the particular car but access to a pool of like cars at varous stations or bases...sort of like the old Pony Express I suppose.
You know what would work is if they take a Lotus Elise engine and replace the electric engine, then you could use gas anywhere you could find a station.
Doubling the voltage may not allow you to charge it faster. If the battery recharging is current limited (as suggested by the 8-hour number), it won’t help at all.
If it doesn’t blow up or catch fire. Wonder how much this will cost. Look at your own skyrocketing electric bill and decide for yourself. All they talk about is clean energy; not cost or safety which they know of neither.
You've got to quit walking off and leaving your computer unattended. While you were gone one of your "friends" sat down and posted something to make you look stupid.
LOL! That’s an excellent idea — patent it before somebody else comes up with it.
Did you read all of what I wrote? Tesla is already introducing a 220-volt charger to cut charge time from 8 hours to 4 hours. Although I certainly suspect that the batteries would have to be configured to take faster charging.
Which means .... we ain't members of that club and will be forced to jump through more hoops than is neccesary .. ultimately keeping the 'franchise' home.
With the stress in our culture, I’d suggest you jump
over the 880 volt charging stops and move directly to the
1760 volt stations. This way you could have the Tesla
drivers on their way in 30 minutes...
No wait. If 30 minutes is good, 15 would be better!
Make that 3520 volts! I think they make chairs of this voltage already...
Man, that was hilarious...and yet sooo scary that there are actually people like this out there voting.
Which means .... we ain't members of that club and will be forced to jump through more hoops than is neccesary .. ultimately keeping the 'franchise' home.
Please, oh please dear God ... do not allow that woman to reproduce.
Shoot, through the redistribution of intelligence program, she is able to vote three or four times.
The US doesn’t generate enough electricity to charge any significant number of electric cars.
I can think of nothing more fun than sitting at a rest stop for four hours after each three hours of driving.
That makes me laugh! ...until I realize that she can vote... then it makes me cry.
LOL, that is hilarious!
This is where windmill farms come in handy along windy interstates.
Set a good batch of them spinning and charging homogenous batteries, you pull over for a battery swap-out, not a fill-up.
Your question is not totally ridiculous, although I don’t think the charging time is just a function of the voltage used. I suspect that the time required at 110 or 220 volts is related to the maximum current that can be provided at those voltages. I believe the Tesla uses lithium-ion batteries and, at least in the RC hobbyist world, these are generally considered to be able to be charged safely in a minimum of one hour. I don’t know if charging at that rate affects the lifespan of the battery. Those are also small batteries, typically of a few Amp-hours capacity at most. OTOH, let’s take a 1,000 A-h battery - to charge it in an hour would require a current of 1,000 Amps. That’s a lot of current, which would require pretty big conductors.
Set a good batch of them spinning and charging homogenous batteries, you pull over for a battery swap-out, not a fill-up.
There you go.... Have a small two wheel trailer with the batteries on it, pull into the swap station, unhook the trailer, hook up the new one with the charged batteries, use the rest room and on your way again... lol.
I think I got it! (and stuff)
Depending on the option selected the “S” car may have a 320 mile range.
A network of three phase 480 Volt fast chargers would definitely provide an incentive for more people to go electric. However, you would have to consider that the cost of the fast chargers, from what I’ve read is 45K, and figure most people on most days would recharge at home at night. So, your potential market would only be the very long distance drivers, and considering the time it will take to get a large number of EV’s on the road, you may not recoup your money for the charger for years, or possibly decades, by which time the technology could have changed.
Initially, I see resturants, rest areas etc, having 220V hookups, that would let you get an extra 25-50 miles of range while you stopped for lunch etc. I think that fast charge stations are going to require investment from the car compainies that would lose money on the charger, but make money by creating a market for their electric cars.
It could happen.
Not with my F-250, though :(
The Tesla is designed to accept a fast “30 minute” charge up to 80% SOC.
In reality, when you go over 250 volts, things are a lot more dangerous. Putting 480V in the hands of the average motorist is like giving flares and black powder to teenagers; someone's going to get dead and that's a certainty.
Apparently he's not socialist enough to grab a corner of the market.
(My apologies to Slim Pickins)
Bookmark for home.
OMG! I just thought of a good ‘reality’ show- follow that woman around and record anything she says. I bet it would be a hoot
Assuming the theory (”double the voltage, halve the charge time!”) is viable (*cough*), consider:
- For me, “taking the kids to gramma’s” is a 1000-mile 16-hour trip. Save maybe one sit-down meal, food is drive-thru. Ain’t nothin’ like “recharging” every 400 miles in 5 minutes flat.
- Over 220v, electricity becomes an extreme safety issue. You don’t just double voltage in a family setting. Ditto for increasing current (an issue with fast-charging capacitors).
- Difference between gas & electric: with gas, you extract energy from a stable medium as-needed in small doses; with electric, you in essence convert all that energy all at once then try to contain it. It’s hard to release all the energy from gasoline at once; it’s easy to release all the energy from batteries/capacitors all at once ... the difference makes a huge safety problem.
I believe that’s called, “CNN.”
What simple calculations are you referring to? Lithium batteries take 1 hour to charge. The Tesla simply uses a large array of lithium batteries. If one charge worth’s of electricity flows at 110V in 8 hours, the same amount should flow at 880V in 1 hour... providing you can safely transfer the electricity. My question, and I worded it as a question, (even adding “and this might be in the category of just plain ignorant”) was whether that could be done.
>> Over 220v, electricity becomes an extreme safety issue. You don’t just double voltage in a family setting. Ditto for increasing current (an issue with fast-charging capacitors). <<
So maybe Tesla needs to design a compartmentalized battery? Sorry if this is really silly, but:
If this is 110 volts,
(||)=====
(||)
why can’t you do this?
======(||) (||)=====
======(||) (||)=====
and get 440 volts?
So could you have, say, four seperate power cables plugging into the Tesla?
440 volts is not four 110 volts in parallel. You’re confusing current with voltage.
Let’s put my concern this way:
Would you rather be dropped on your head onto concrete from 110 inches, or from 440 inches?
For safety, let’s add a mattress in the landing zone. The 110 inches now looks survivable. That 440 inches looking any better?
Now, in this context your suggestion is like being dropped 110 inches four times.
Put another way, you’re mixing up the difference between X*4 vs. X^4. (Being a bit-pusher, my electrical equations are rusty so I won’t go further.)
At 880V you would exceed the insulation rating of the energized equipment and destroy it with arcing faults.
Most electrical equipment is designed to a standard 600V (rms) rating.
Screw your ewlectric tonka toys!
If it doesn’t run on gasoline crush it!!!
Actually, the useful range of a gas Lotus is about the same as the Tesla. The Tesla runs out of battery charge and the Lotus needs a trip to the repair shop (usually with an electrical problem) after about the same number of miles.
There's a reason why homeowners ahouldn't try to tie in their houses to the utility lines and they're "only" 120V each. Short out one of those lines with a screwdriver and you'll have a stubby left (if you're lucky).
We would suggest that folks in California are already too busy driving along those hydrogen highways with their hydrogen stations that the Governator fell in love with rather than develop California boundless untouched oil reserves and allow innovation in oil on a level tax playing field with boondoggles.
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