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New Gun Law May Have Unintended Affects in Yellowstone
Yellowstone Insider.com ^ | October 21, 2009

Posted on 10/28/2009 7:50:11 AM PDT by Still Thinking

Wednesday, 21 October 2009 15:33

Yellowstone National ParkA law loosening gun restrictions in America's National Parks goes beyond what proponents initially argued and would allow anyone with a gun permit to openly carry a weapon in Yellowstone National Park, if legal experts are correct.

A legislation, proposed and drafted by U.S. Senator Tom Coburn (R-Oklahoma) was billed as a way to uniformly enforce gun laws across different states and National Parks, which are under federal supervision. The law was said to extend the state's guidelines concerning concealed carry into the federal National Park. If you had a permit for a concealed weapon in your own state and that right was recognized by the state hosting the National Park, then your permit would be recognized as well.

But the legislation, attached to a credit-card reform bill and signed by President Obama, reportedly goes beyond the concealed-carry recognition. Whether by design or accident, it removes concealed-carry provisions from the mix and basically allows state gun laws to take precedence in any National Park.That's the conclusion from the Jackson Hole Daily, which consulted with local legal experts.

We suspect the end result will be a little more complicated. Wyoming does indeed have a concealed-carry law -- you can see for yourself on the state's website -- and does indeed recognize concealed-carry permits from other states. (Websites specializing in explaining concealed-carry laws have come to the same conclusion.) However, Wyoming is one of the many states that allows citizens to openly carry a legally registered weapon. We looked at the law surrounding concealed carry in Wyoming and came to a slightly different conclusion after talking with experts. Indeed, Park Service officials in Washington, D.C. say they're still reviewing appropriate statutes before coming up with gun guidelines for each National Park.

Still, the fact that Park Rangers must add gun enforcement to their list of duties is not the most desirable of outcomes. Generally speaking, the vast majority of gun owners are responsible citizens. The problem, however, doesn't lie with responsible gun owners; it lies with irresponsible gun owners, and they, too, exist; there were issues raised by gun owners openly brandishing their weapons during Obama speeches in Arizona and Minnesota this summer, as they went out of their way to openly carry legal semiautomatic weapons in large crowds waiting to see the President. Poaching, too, is still an issue in Yellowstone. And, quite bluntly, we can't think of many instances in Yellowstone National Park where anyone would need a weapon; we're not talking about an environment where animal attacks or human crime occurs with any degree of regularity.

In the Daily article, local attorney Kent Spence of Jackson's Spence Law Firm says he would feel more comfortable camping in the Yellowstone backwoods carrying a weapon capable of taking down a bear, though he admitted pepper spray would be his first line of defense. We're not so sure every other gun owner would be as comfortable or responsible should a bear attack.



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: banglist; wy; yellowstone
Whether by design or accident, it removes concealed-carry provisions from the mix and basically allows state gun laws to take precedence in any National Park.

Onoz! This is a national park! What makes those Congressmen, bought and paid for by the gun-lobby, think that what will work on the other side of that invisible line will work in here?

1 posted on 10/28/2009 7:50:11 AM PDT by Still Thinking
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To: Still Thinking

BTW, anyone know why I can’t get “margin” tags or invisible gifs to put some blank space between the image and the article text?


2 posted on 10/28/2009 7:51:38 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Still Thinking

I am pretty much OK with this because it is a federal crime to commit any kind of mayhem on any government reservation, military or otherwise as long as it is federal land.


3 posted on 10/28/2009 7:52:57 AM PDT by Ev Reeman
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To: Still Thinking

I wonder if the wimp writing this article had to change his panties after he finished.


4 posted on 10/28/2009 7:55:19 AM PDT by xone
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To: Ev Reeman

You mean you’re OK with state law prevailing? Me too. I just posted because I was offended by their dipweed Chicken Littling about it, like the sky was going to fall because, heaven forfend, the law will be the same in the park as everywhere else in WY. God forbid! There’ll be blood in the streets! Uh, trails. Blood in the trails.


5 posted on 10/28/2009 7:56:56 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Still Thinking

“Still, the fact that Park Rangers must add gun enforcement to their list of duties is not the most desirable of outcomes.”

Why would they have to add gun enforcement to their duties? The citizens have a right to carry guns openly, these rangers don’t have any business enforcing anything unless someone starts shooting.


6 posted on 10/28/2009 7:57:31 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: xone

Well he did have to menthion the eeeevil gunth. He probably had to lay down till his head stopped spinning.


7 posted on 10/28/2009 7:58:01 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Still Thinking
BTW, anyone know why I can’t get “margin” tags or invisible gifs to put some blank space between the image and the article text?

Add "hspace" and "vspace" values to your "img" tag.

<img src="http://www.somesite.com/myimage.jpg" hspace="20" vspace="20">

8 posted on 10/28/2009 7:58:36 AM PDT by TChris (There is no freedom without the possibility of failure.)
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To: Boogieman

Yeah, wouldn’t there be MORE potential for enforcement time if there were MORE restrictions??? Liberals are idiots.


9 posted on 10/28/2009 7:58:51 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: TChris
Add "hspace" and "vspace" values to your "img" tag.

Thanks, T.

10 posted on 10/28/2009 7:59:40 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Still Thinking
Wyoming is one of the many states that allows citizens to openly carry a legally registered weapon.

Wyoming does not require registration of weapons.

11 posted on 10/28/2009 8:00:21 AM PDT by Dan(9698)
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To: Still Thinking
The problem, however, doesn't lie with responsible gun owners; it lies with irresponsible gun owners, and they, too, exist; there were issues raised by gun owners openly brandishing their weapons during Obama speeches in Arizona and Minnesota this summer, as they went out of their way to openly carry legal semiautomatic weapons in large crowds waiting to see the President.

I think the writer of this hand-wringing diatribe might want to open a dictionary once in a while:

Brandish \ˈbran-dish'\ v

1. to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2. to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner

Wearing a weapon (as was done in Minnesota and Arizona) is not "brandishing". Unless, of course, Police officers are "brandishing" their sidearms as they wear them in public. No? Didn't think so.

12 posted on 10/28/2009 8:02:39 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

Yeah, I caught that too. Open carry may be legal but you certainly wouldn’t want to carry....openly. Or something.


13 posted on 10/28/2009 8:04:39 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

I’m sure that had there been any actual brandishing going on, those guys would have been face down and cuffed. (Presidential visit or not, brandishing without cause is illegal here in AZ, where one of the incidents took place)


14 posted on 10/28/2009 8:08:05 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Still Thinking

Inappropriate affects alert!


15 posted on 10/28/2009 8:18:07 AM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast ( If you have kids, you have no right of privacy that the govt can't flick off your shoulder.)
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To: Still Thinking
"we're not talking about an environment where animal attacks or human crime occurs with any degree of regularity."

The Griz only bites once.

16 posted on 10/28/2009 8:18:50 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

Tell Obama that. Maybe then he won’t be scared of Michelle.


17 posted on 10/28/2009 8:23:56 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Still Thinking
And, quite bluntly, we can't think of many instances in Yellowstone National Park where anyone would need a weapon

Typical grabber refrain. Quite bluntly, I don't care what they think.

18 posted on 10/28/2009 8:32:10 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

Agree. Effects would be better.


19 posted on 10/28/2009 8:33:07 AM PDT by Jagermonster (They will not force us. They will stop degrading us. They will not control us. We will be victorious)
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To: Still Thinking

Don’t mean to quibble but misuse of the English language makes one look poorly educated, careless, and/or stupid. “Affect” is a verb. “Effect” is a noun and the correct word to use in this context. But if that is the original title at the linked article, then we can at least blame some school of journalism.


20 posted on 10/28/2009 8:33:52 AM PDT by katana
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius

“I think the writer of this hand-wringing diatribe might want to open a dictionary once in a while:”

I understand what you are saying, however in many cases there are differences between dictionary definitions and legal definitions. In some places people get arrested for brandishing if someone spots their CCW.


21 posted on 10/28/2009 8:35:18 AM PDT by Hacklehead (Liberalism is the art of taking what works, breaking it, and then blaming conservatives.)
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To: katana
But if that is the original title at the linked article, then we can at least blame some school of journalism.

it is. I just cut and pasted it. His vocabulary is as good as his logic.

22 posted on 10/28/2009 8:38:06 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Paladin2

National park service oversees parks, widerness areas,recreational areas, monuments, and historic sites.

There will be a lot of complicated issues with this.

Example; Grand Canyon NP is land ‘leased’ to the feds.

I used to work at the Gateway Arch in st louis. I was armed at work, and I was armed to and from work. When I left st louis, my pov had three bullet holes in it.


23 posted on 10/28/2009 8:38:10 AM PDT by maine yankee
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To: Still Thinking

Idiocy from the reporter: “Wyoming is one of the many states that allows citizens to openly carry a legally registered weapon”


There is no such registration requirement in Wyoming or most “free” states. Perhaps the writer means that the law does not prohibit the open carry of a lawfully-possessed weapon.


24 posted on 10/28/2009 8:39:06 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Why not "interpret" your tax returns like the Supreme Court "interprets" the Constitution?)
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To: Paladin2

I see your “need to carry” and raise you with my “right to carry”.
barbra ann


25 posted on 10/28/2009 8:49:18 AM PDT by barb-tex (She is one of us)
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To: Still Thinking
New Gun Law May Have Unintended Affects in Yellowstone

It is "Effects" not "Affects".

Public school.

26 posted on 10/28/2009 8:49:43 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: barb-tex

does this mean the PETA people will push for;

....THE RIGHT TO ARM BEARS...


27 posted on 10/28/2009 8:53:31 AM PDT by maine yankee
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To: P-Marlowe

I know. I just pasted it.


28 posted on 10/28/2009 9:04:06 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: Still Thinking

It is “definately” one of my pet peeves.

That, and people who spell definitely - “definately”.


29 posted on 10/28/2009 9:19:05 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Still Thinking
My "Word for Windows Spelling/Grammar checker" does not know the difference between "advice" and "advise". The program keeps telling me to change advise to advice, when the correct word is advise.
30 posted on 10/28/2009 9:22:53 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe

My pet peeve is when people don’t know when to use subjective vs. objective pronouns, usually in a compound. As in “The boss gave my partner and I a new assignment.”


31 posted on 10/28/2009 9:26:26 AM PDT by Still Thinking (If ignorance is bliss, liberals must be ecstatic!)
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To: maine yankee

At least they didn’t build the Arch on the East side of the River. ;-)


32 posted on 10/28/2009 9:32:39 AM PDT by Paladin2
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Statistics don’t matter when they happen to YOU.

It’s not that such events happen often.
It’s that they do happen - and being prepared is harmless.

People can throw around stats regarding bear attacks all they like - doesn’t change the fact that my wife DID almost walk into a bear (at which point I was keenly aware of what was _not_ within arm’s reach).


33 posted on 10/28/2009 10:37:55 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (End the coup!)
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To: ctdonath2
That's my point.

I've had (black) bears hanging around campsites in the back country and chased a cub up a tree (back in my youth) and had a friend eaten by an aggressive Griz on gov't parkland in AK. Nothing to fool with.

34 posted on 10/28/2009 10:44:17 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

(Was agreeing, not disparaging.)


35 posted on 10/28/2009 10:52:08 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (End the coup!)
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To: maine yankee

Designated wilderness areas are monitored by the USFS not the park service. And by the way, I pack with horses and mules and hunt in wilderness areas all the time. Except for existing state and federal laws there are no restrictions on carrying a firearm in a wilderness area.


36 posted on 10/28/2009 12:54:11 PM PDT by oldenuff2no (I'm a VET and damn proud of it!!! I did not fight for a socialist America!!!!!!!)
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To: oldenuff2no

The National Wilderness Preservation System coordinates the wilderness activities of the four federal agencies — Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Forest Service, National Park Service and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Wilderness areas are parts of national parks, wildlife refuges, national forests, and the public domain and may include land in several different units managed by different agencies. Initially, the NWPS included 34 areas protecting 9.1 million acres (37,000 km²) in the national forests. As of August 2008, there were 704 wilderness areas in the NWPS, preserving 107,514,938 acres (435,098 km2).

Most U.S. wilderness areas are in National Forests but the largest amount of wilderness land is administered by the National Park Service. The largest contiguous wilderness complex in the United States is the Noatak and Gates of the Arctic Wildernesses in Alaska at 12,743,329 acres (51,570 km²); the largest wilderness area outside Alaska is the Death Valley Wilderness in southeastern California

Spend spring break on lake powell or lake mead - and you’ll see every kind of weapon imaginable. One of my partners confiscated an M-79 from a drunk frat boy, and ‘dyn-o-mite’ fishing occures at least once a year.


37 posted on 10/28/2009 3:39:02 PM PDT by maine yankee
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