Norwegian warship in sea-battle off Somali coast: EU

AFP ^ | November 01, 2009 | AFP Staff

[Enchante]

BRUSSELS (AFP) – A Norwegian warship inspecting fishing boats off the coast of Somalia for suspected pirate activity was caught in heavy gunfire in the early hours of Sunday, a European Union naval commander said.

The Norwegian sailors, cruising just off the north-eastern Somali coast, were fired upon in the dead of night by a dhow with between five and seven men on board and armed with heavy weaponry and Kalashnikov rifles, he added.

.....

"The boarding party returned fire in self-defence -- and retreated to 1,000 metres (yards), because their main job was to escort a World Food Programme aid ship which had to keep moving.

"You are talking about guys firing automatic weapons at you -- you retreat to try and de-escalate the situation.

"We are not aware of any deaths or injuries on the dhow -- they fired back to try and keep the heads of their attackers down.

"There was no indication that anybody had been hit -- but there was no opportunity to return and assess the damage."

[Enchante]

WOW, we are a long way from the Vikings...... now a major "sea battle" is when you flee from 5-7 scumbags without even returning to blast them out of the water.....

everyone should feel a lot safer in those waters with EU countries there to "combat" piracy with such "de-escalation" of every confrontation.... why kill pirate/terrorists who open fire on you, when you can simply flee to "de-escalate" and let same pirate/terrorists live to hijack more vessels.... brilliant Norway and EU, you folks really know how to do things ..... haaaaaa

[Enchante]

granted, the “Vikings” mainly liked to raid and plunder coastal villages, not much of a “sea battle” their either.... and said Vikings had more in common with the Somali pirates in some ways..... but is it possible to believe that supposed descendants of the fierce Vikings can’t even knock off a handful of pirates who OPEN FIRE on them.... all you do in the new EU is try to “de-escalate” any confrontation.... even when the bad guys are firing upon you, and will simply go on doing what they do since you can’t/won’t take them out... pitiful.

[TXnMA]

Go avay! Or ve vill throw Nobel Peace Prizes at you!

[rae4palin]

These Norwegians are as brave as Danish UN peacekeepers.

[Walkingfeather]

“”You are talking about guys firing automatic weapons at you — you retreat to try and de-escalate the situation. “

how humiliating is that?

[rlmorel]

"...You are talking about guys firing automatic weapons at you -- you retreat to try and de-escalate the situation...."

Huh?

I know the US Navy may have rules of engagement that are just as bad, but if a "dhow" began opening fire on one of our Arleigh Burke class ships, I would fully expect at least one of these weapons to open full bore (preferably item one, which can fire about twenty rounds in automatic fire mode in just under a minute. My guess is they might want a short magazine so they don't waste rounds firing at water and smoke)

1 × Mark 45 5/54 in (127/54 mm)

2 × 25 mm chain gun

4 × .50 caliber (12.7 mm) guns

2 × 20 mm Phalanx CIWS

Then we pull back to "de-escalate" which really means "let the sinking progress" and "allow the sharks in the famously "shark infested water" to finish their dinner".

THEN if there is anyone left, we can bring them aboard, try them for piracy and hang them right there.

Sigh. I do have a feeling the US Navy's ROE may favor de-escalation "Norwegian style" as well.

[Tigen]

It sounds like drive by media or congress critters and I surely agree “HANG EM” s/off

[Right Wing Assault]

between five and seven men

You mean six?

[JoeProBono]

[SampleMan]

"You are talking about guys firing automatic weapons at you -- you retreat to try and de-escalate the situation.

Quick, someone mail off a set of testicles to the Norwegian Navy.

[Bubba]

WTH!

Somebody needs to get a set somewhat larger than mustard seeds.

[ClearCase_guy]

In the 1700's, there was a British admiral who was in a battle, and the feeling afterward was that he should have been more aggressive. The British government had him hanged, "to encourage the others".

I'm not suggesting that the Norwegian commander be hanged. But I would suggest summarily blowing out of the water any ship which fires upon a Norwegian navy vessel, "to discourage the others".

[Mouton]

Sounds to me like the Captain of that vessel should get next year’s peace prize.

[Thermalseeker]

I would fully expect at least one of these weapons to open full bore ...

I'm not sure how big this "Dhow" was, but I would imagine a warship of any size could just ram them, cut 'em in half, and never even notice. Most of the Somali pirate boats I've seen are wooden pieces of crap that wouldn't make a decent fishing boat. It seems to me that the tonnage rule would be in full effect here and I doubt AK-47's would have much effect on a warship's hull.....

[FreeAtlanta]

Their ROI are nuts. Shooting to keep their heads down???? How about shooting to blow their heads off? These pirates are going to kill innocent people or take them hostage. Use your weaponry to stop it or you are being irresponsible.

[Cvengr]

The best way to de-esculate the situation is by maintaining fire superiority, thereby suppressing enemy fires.

[BuffaloJack]

Any they call themselves Vikings.
A real Viking ship would have sunk the Somali craft and then pounded down a meade to celebrate.

[mad_as_he$$]

http://www.dillonaero.com/content/p/9/pid/1/catid/1/Standard_M134D

[darkside321]

everyone should feel a lot safer in those waters with EU countries there to "combat" piracy with such "de-escalation" of every confrontation... ------------------- ähm Norway is not an EU member. but anyway i think this story is missleading because it looks like everyone thinks they fired on a warship. but usually they send small boats like this to inspect other ships. and then the "retreat" to a safe distance does make sense.

[Mind-numbed Robot]

between five and seven men

You mean six?

LOL That new math is Hell isn't it?

[elpadre]

to protect the cargo ship and others to come, the pirate ship should have been sunk. To do otherwise simply is a victory for the bad guys who will go after the next cargo ship without armed escort. The warship did a great disservice to all who ship throughout the Somalia area and must be chastised for their failure to do the right thing.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

That’s called cowardice.

The correct response from the boarding party is. “You are talking about guys firing automatic weapons at you — you retreat to clear the lane of fire for the heavy weapons of your ship. Then you return to finish any surviving pirates you find in the water with a bullet to the head.”

It’s good to know that when I decide to turn to piracy, there is nothing to fear from the worlds navies.

[rlmorel]

I got a chance to go on a Perry class frigate that was in Boston recently, and it was kind of funny talking to the Chief Gunner’s Mate...he said they use their CIWS to cover vessels they were boarding but they had a couple of dual .50’s they used as well.

They came across a semi-sunken aluminum fishing vessel, which they decided to sink for target practice (and to eliminate the navigation hazard)

Apparently, they pumped over a thousand round into it, but it just wouldn’t sink. The officer giving the tour started ribbing him and grinning, and it was clear to see the Chief was taking the ribbing personally as a professional affront, because he went on for a while on how that damned thing just wouldn’t sink. I think he said he fired some CIWS rounds and it finally went down, but I got the impression he took some ribbing about that for the rest of the cruise...:)

[rlmorel]

LOL! Could I get me one of them?

[Enchante]

"when you flee from 5-7 scumbags without even returning to blast them out of the water....."

I did not question whether a small boarding party was smart to retreat (initially) to a safe distance as a tactical move, although there is good reason to question why they should only be "firing over heads" during those moments instead of firing at the target while moving away to await reinforcement..... but my comment is meant to question why on earth a significant warship (from whence the boarding party came) should allow a known pirate vessel (which has fired upon their own crew) to escape unscathed, to go right on plundering and ransoming civilian crews and vessels??

[Enchante]

p.s. As long as we must be picky, I am very well aware that Norway is a member of NATO but not a member of the EU.... however as a NATO member their ship is participating in these patrols under command of an EU task force, and the official statements about the incident came from an unnamed EU "naval commander" and before that a statement from "EU NAVFOR" for the region.

Thus, I consider it perfectly reaonable shorthand to refer alternately to Norway and to the EU about this incident. But if we must be more exacting in our language here then let me refer to

"Norway-which-is-a-member-of-NATO-but-not-a-member-of-the-EU-yet-acting-as-a-NATO-member-to-send-its-warship-to-participate-as-a-member-of-the-EU-NAVFOR-commanded-by-the-region's-EU-naval-commander."

[from article]: "a European Union naval commander said........ A statement by EU NAVFOR had earlier said "shots were fired"