Posted on 11/02/2009 7:37:21 PM PST by blam
Gold Confiscation Risk
Commodities / Gold & Silver 2009
Nov 02, 2009 - 02:05 AM
By: Howard_Katz
Things are looking good for the gold bugs these days. September and early October saw the (long awaited) break above $1,000. This past week saw the technical pull back to the breakout point, and Thursday was the turnaround day. Friday saw some very bullish candlestick signals in many of the gold stocks.
But one thing has been bothering many gold bugs. In 1933, the U.S. Government confiscated the people’s gold. The Government even went into safety deposit boxes (in private banks) and took the gold out of them. This was done once. Perhaps it could be done again.
Actually, I find this fear to be alarmist. There were special circumstances which led to the confiscation of gold in 1933, a special legal situation unique to American history and which made the confiscation necessary if the New Dealers were to achieve their objective of taking us off the gold standard.
First, let us go back to a key event in American history. For those of you outside of the USA, this is still useful information because America was (and still is) the most wealthy country in the world, and its gold/silver standard played an important role in that accomplishment. As Senator Daniel Webster wrote early in America’s history:
“Most unquestionably there is no legal tender and there can be no legal tender in this country, under the authority of this government or any other, but gold and silver….” [as quoted by Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase, “Supreme Court Reports,” Legal Tender Cases, 12 Wall 586, Opinion of the Minority.]
This is why you don’t buy bullion coins. They can be confiscated. You buy numismatic/semi-numismatic (ie collectors) coins instead. Older, out of circulation, generally, or certain foreign coins.
Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
To have something in one's possession taken away. Usually by an authority, either as a punishment or for safety purposes.
This is why, if you own them, you store them hidden and locked and don’t tell a soul.
I would if I had any. Too frickin’ poor.
Okay.
I don't have any Krugerrands hidden in a coffee can in my back shed.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.
My Great Uncle was no New Dealer and had a lot of gold in his safe in his basement. Never turned it over to the Govt and had plenty of other money to buy up land during the Depression. In the 1970’s his Widow finally sold off the gold coins that he had saved. After Nixon took devalued the dollar.
Don’t put any confidence in safe deposit boxes, that’s for sure.
Recently in England, they hit several places and carved open literally thousands of the boxes (supposedly searching for drug money), but they ended up confiscating millions of dollars in legal assets and forcing the owners to PROVE it was theirs and legal.
Many people lost huge amounts, sometimes everything, and were stuck with huge legal bills even if they got their property returned.
I wouldn’t put that same sort of thing past the Obamanite for a moment.
I’d bury my jewelry before I let the feds have it!
FDR confiscated the gold because people turned their paper money (gold certificates) to the banks/US Treasury in exchange for gold. Fearing that some people with money will buy huge amounts of gold and shipping it out of the country FDR took advantage of the bank holidays to seize gold in deposit boxes and past a law to make ownership of gold bullios illegal. People were forced to sell gold at 20 bucks and the US government turned around and sold it for 30 bucks to any foreign government.
Today the only reason the US may seize gold bullion is to prevent the dumping of the US dollar. However that may be tricky to do because over 60 percent of US dollar bills are in foreign banks. If the US government attempted to seize privately owned gold bullion, it would signal to all the foreign holders of US dollars that something is wrong with the currency. Instead of defending the dollar, the act of seizing gold may panic foreign banks and holders of the US currency to dump it for other currencies or hard assets causing the US dollar to rapidly drop even more.
The only reason that the US may seize gold is to meet our debt payments to overseas holders of US T bills/bonds. If the US dollar falls, the only hard assets left that kept its value is precious metals in our banks and private ownership. Seizure probably will be done under economic/financial emergency to save our country from total economic collapse. If it gets that bad all gold and silver will be confiscated by the US government including nurismatic coins, personal jewelry and foreign legal tenders denominated in precious metal coins. Hopefully one will see that coming and have a chance to flee to Canada or Mexico.
This won’t be your grandfather’s confiscation. Carrots this time, not sticks:
1) Things continue to go bad but gold doesn’t rise “like it should”
2) Government will announce it will buy gold directly from Americans at some tremendous premium to world price, pretext yet to be determined
3) Many people sell, laugh all the way to the bank that they’re finally directly on the receiving end of Uncle Sucker’s poor financial judgement
4) Hyperinflation. Got gold?
They can’t take what they don’t know you have. Go to coin shops, buy bullion (Eagles, Pandas, Loons, etc.) and *pay cash*. Don’t buy through the US Mint or online or off the tv or use anything other than *cash*. Don’t buy all in one place, or make large (memorable) purchases.
Agree with all.
I look at gold as a post-doomsday currency. It comes in real handy after the air clears (after a meltdown). At that point, the dollar is worthless and whatever we have in gold will be our wealth - and, eventually, it will be legal again (or at least there will be a black market).
During a meltdown, we’re talking survival, and the best thing that we can do is be ready with a huge supply of every non-perishable item we can think of (I have everything form antibiotics to 600 rolls of toilet paper) - and go into survival mode. There will ALWAYS be some food, but for long-term, gold is what you want.
My grandmother told me how they hid gold from the government, even though she loved Roosevelt for “saving the country”
I dont see Obama trying anything like this. Roosevelt had no alternative media to cope with. Obama can’t even get a public option passed.
Most likely when inflation hits we will hear more demonization of producers and call for windfall profits taxes. And about how smart Obama was with Green energy ideas Republicans opposed. It would be best of Republicans prepared for that.
I think there are a lot more guns in this country today than there were in 1933.
Agreed. The IRS thugs can freeze them on a whim, along with bank accounts and everything else. No. Safe deposit boxes can be handy for wills and car titles - - paperwork, stuff like that.
In the scenario you described, another precious metal to stock up on is lead.
Ping.
Thanks for the perspective.
Actually, I do have about 20 lbs. of lead - although it is getting harder to find. I got mine at Home Depot, it was for roof vent pipes (and a bit expensive - but the real thing, easy to melt).
Let them take your gold, they’ll come back for your guns.
I was at a gun show last weekend, ammo was very plentiful.
I bought a few hundred rounds myself. (already have 2.5K or more)
LOL, that’s the way to do it!
meet them at the door...
Anyone who attempts to confiscate my gold, will get only lead...
I have a lot of lead. Got it from doing bodywork on old cars. As I separate body panels, I collect the lead. I replace it with new non-lead body solder, higher temp to melt. Lots of lead on pre-1980 cars. Don't know the first thing about making ammo, but I probably can trade lead for ammo.
bttt
btttt
FDR took advantage of the bank holidays to seize gold in deposit boxes
____________________________
Did not happen. The Feds did not raid safe deposit boxes but people were told to turn in gold coins and most did. But not all
Silver coins are good during any upcoming chaos. Gold makes you a target of home invasion but like you say is good after the dust settles
“Silver coins are good during any upcoming chaos. Gold makes you a target of home invasion but like you say is good after the dust settles”
Couldn’t agree more on silver. On gold, as others have said, just don’t let ANYONE know you have it - and be very careful when you cash it in.
Banks were closed and reopenned and depositors were greeted at the door with federal officials. Depositors were told that if they had gold bullions in their boxes they must turn them over for $ 20 an ounce. Failure to do so was severe fines and possibly prison. Under current Homeland Security Act, during a declared emergency the feds can close banks and seize contents in the boxes, such as drugs, firearms, huge sums of cash and gold in boxes.
Greatly appreciated Fee. The Feds put the fear of God in people but they didn’t break into any safe deposit boxes.
Recently in UK the police did break into 2400 safe depoiste boxes and are in big trouble for doing. The Obama-trons may try it in the future
I’m jsut saying taht during the FDR years fear and intimidation were used to get people to cough up their gold for $20 gold certificate currency for each ounce. But the Feds did not jam into any boxes and seize gold. I have read that no one can find any evidence of gold seizures
Great ideas to bear in mind
Now during any chaos I think 90% junk silver coins are ideal. You will be just like any number of other dumb schmucks. I think 90% junk is better than the newly minted one ounce silver rounds you can get from APMEX
Maybe today's one ounce silver eagles are good and very "average"
They have a high premium unfortunately
You want to blend in and be "average": during lawless chaos
The last thing you want is to stand out
The best investments these days are in lead and brass, not in gold and silver.
Ammo will be currency.
The thing freepers need to remember is the first priority of any government during a crisis is survival. Not matter what form the government is (democracy to dictatorship) survival is the first priority. Remember in college I had a Taiwanese student who vehemently hated the mainland Chinese. Though he acknowledged Taiwan is part of China, but he wanted independence from China because of what the Nationalists did to the Taiwan wealthy families after they fled the mainland. The KMT barely brought enough gold and silver to pay their troops for several months. Fearing the army would fall apart, the KMT decided to seize all valuable assets on Taiwan to keep their army and government alive. Pretext for seizure was accuse all the wealthy Taiwanese families of collaborating with the Japanese in World War 2. It was an unfair charge because Japan controlled the island after the Sino Japanese War of 1895. The citizens of Taiwan were officially Japanese subjects and were required to support Japan during World War 2. To charge them with collaboration was illegal and unfair. While the Communist seized private land and prosecuted land owners to obtain resources to feed the poor and keep the revolution going, the KMT seized land and assets belonging to well off Taiwanese families to keep their regime and army fed and paid. The Communist Chinese shot their landowners and encouraged them to abandon their property and flee, the KMT imprisoned the wealthy Taiwanese in political prisons on Green Island in order to take their lands and factories. Lesson from history is that if a government is in desperate financial straits they are capable of doing anything to survive, and that includes our own democratic government.
Is 0bama anything like FDR ? FDR ordered the Gold to be confiscated.
Your argument is correct though the Feds are so sloppy and inept they won’t be as efficient as the Koumintang on Taiwan
I have a friend who works for a major city government. I have asked him many times whether that government exists for the pols the hacks and the city workers OR for the taxpaying citizens
He admits it exists for those who work for the city. Who get a paycheck signed by the mayor
Good post. There is a reason the one ounce American Eagles say "$50.00" This will likely be the new money base. The "New" American dollar is worth 1/50 of an ounce of gold. You simply turn in $1,000,000,000 of "old American dollars" for 50 new American dollars or one ounce of gold.
Seems a fair bargain to me!
We don’t have any buried in our back yard either blam. *) wink wink
And what, pray tell, would prevent this rogue administration from ‘changing the rules’ and thusly confiscate ANY gold, including collectors coins, that they can get their greedy, corrupt, Marxist hands on?
You sound too naive to be a conservative....in this new reality. And I know from reading other posts of yours that you are conservative. What gives?
You do know what's good for you young lady.
And I would hope that the public would get or have a clue....and keep their valuables somewhere OTHER than a bank safety deposit box....considering the "new reality".
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.