Posted on 11/02/2009 8:03:34 PM PST by Alter Kaker
AMHERST, Mass. — Creationism is growing in the Muslim world, from Turkey to Pakistan to Indonesia, international academics said last month as they gathered here to discuss the topic.
But, they said, young-Earth creationists, who believe God created the universe, Earth and life just a few thousand years ago, are rare, if not nonexistent.
One reason is that although the Koran, the holy text of Islam, says the universe was created in six days, the next line adds that a day, in this instance, is metaphorical: “a thousand years of your reckoning.”
By contrast, some Christian creationists find in the Bible a strict chronology that requires a 6,000-year-old Earth and thus object not only to evolution but also to much of modern geology and cosmology, which say the Earth and the universe are billions of years old.
“Views of scientific evolution are clearly influenced by underlying religious beliefs,” said Salman Hameed, who convened the two-day conference here at Hampshire College, where he is a professor of integrated science and humanities. “There is no young-Earth creationism.”
But that does not mean that all of evolution fits Islam or that all Muslims happily accept the findings of modern biology. More and more seem to be joining the ranks of the so-called old-Earth creationists. They do not quarrel with astronomers and geologists, just biologists, insisting that life is the creation of God, not the happenstance consequence of random occurrences.
The debate over evolution is only now gaining prominence in many Islamic countries as education improves and more students are exposed to the ideas of modern biology.
The degree of acceptance of evolution varies among Islamic countries.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Well, by current creationism logic, that means that creationism=islam.
You and I know that is not the case, but we need to rigidly apply the same logic across the board, right?
I will await the response of the YECers, but I won’t hold my breath.
And I, too, have a database of quotes, folks.
Ping
Ping......
Teach the controversy! Let’s get American schools to teach Islamic Creationism, alongside Christian Creationism, Hindu Creationism, and, um, science.
Once again, a Times headline contradicts its own news story. The article reports that the Islamic world is moving away from a traditional understanding of creation, and by and large moving to a partial acceptance of evolution - yet the title oddly reverses that story.
And, of course, many of the current rationales for young earth creationism were first devised by a Seventh Day Adventist, George McCready Price (and later cribbed, with scant attribution, by Southern Baptist Henry Morris), not directly based on the text of the Bible, but rather to support supposedly infallible visions by Adventist founding prophetiss Ellen G. White.
In short, the history of modern antievolutionism laced with marginal cultism.
Islam is a deliberate slap in God’s face. - It is the worship of the moon god.
The Koran was written by Kabbalist Jewish sages, who are no more believers than the Islamists that they mocked.
Npthing times nothing is...
Thanks for the ping!
That’s just snotty and dumber than dog crap.
Why did you leave evolution out? (or is that what um-science is?) um = un?
He knows, and he thanks you for the complement!
So you're saying the Koran is a Jewish conspiracy?
Excuse me? What sewer did you crawl out of, exactly?
No conspiracy, but probably a rip-off.
Mo couldn’t read or write, so he hired the job out.
(No, I’m not going to keep company with you in your sewer)
I can always expect the standard reaction from Luddites.
Thanks for meeting expectations.
I see your mommy let you use the computer again.
You are so cute when you try to talk for yourself.
>>Excuse me? What sewer did you crawl out of, exactly?<<
The sewer of the self-righteous. e/d is the example of people who are so low that they need to justify their hate and stupidity by blaming others.
It is NOT conservatism he justifies — just hate.
I'm sorry, but you have to be pretty deranged to blame Islam on the Jews.
Did Jewish and Christian tribes convert to Islam? Sure. Did their religious texts influence the Koran? Of course.
But that's not what you said. You said "The Koran was written by Kabbalist Jewish sages, who are no more believers than the Islamists that they mocked," which is so ridiculous it's practically self-parody.
What have the Jews ever done to you, EP?
You forgot the sarcasm tag, given who the majority of the secular no God in public education and the degreed crowds, voted for this past election.
Well well well, now it is the secularmites that run public education and the peered reviews that are first at the trough to maintain their fitness. And the majority of them voted for BamaKennedy.... And BamaKennedy told US that he believes in that 'scientific methodology' and has a partnership with his 'god' to decide who lives and who dies... MMMM mmm mMMm And there is an old saying that he who laughs last laughs longest... some of US are waiting for our opportunity to begin our laughter.
Oh and I have NO doubt this earth is very very very old and this earth is marked with the evidence of that rebellion in the age that was. Clean up time is not that far away in the sun sets of days.
Muslims showing how the new Dark Ages are on the march. And some here are proudly in step with their ignorance, pounding the drum with new threads daily. It’s surreal.
Oh the ignorance is surreal alright. But as it is Written these things need be. Got to admire all those educated folk that voted for BamaKennedy's scientific methodology...
And if you really believe in the theory of the fittest survive then by 'logic' there is no controlling legal authority, not even a peeeeered review has standing in deciding who survives.
>>Clean up time is not that far away in the sun sets of days.<<
2012?
;)
I'm not sure I follow.
Are you saying Obama's campaign platform was "science" or "scientific methodology?" Because that's clearly ludicrous. Of course it wasn't.
Or that Obama's supporters were only "educated folk?" Because that's nonsense as well. Exit polls showed that Obama won a majority of all educational brackets. Obama got 63% of the vote from high school drop outs, yet "only" 58% of the vote from people with graduate degrees.
Sounds like you have a problem with education that has nothing to do with Obama, but that's your crutch.
Well, if we're going to teach one creation account in the public schools evolution, the secular humanist/atheist one) then we might as well teach them all.
If not, then don't teach any.
This Chang guy is clearly ignorant of Christianity. The Christian Bible says the same thing (Koran probably copied it), in 2nd Peter 3:8. Correspondingly, there are also old-earth creationists in Christianity, like me.
The NYT shouldn't even write about Christianity, since they are so ignorant of it.
You obviously believe some cartoon parody of what evolution is supposed to mean.
Evolution explains the change in allele frequencies in populations over time. It has nothing to do with the validity of invalidity of "legal authorities." It's not a values statement. It's simply an observation of how alleles compete and survive.
Fine. I have no problem with that. But one of those creation accounts is science, based on empirical observation, and the others are religion. Teach science in science class, and the others in a comparative religion or world literature class.
Not a date setter or a date setter follower, I just pay attention to the events as they unfold. Could well begin in 2010 at the peoples House.
Your tagline: Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...
Evolution is a theory, not a fact, it should be approached with an open mind.... At least I can drop an apple and see it fall, showing the gravitational theory in action. I have yet to see a snake change into a bird. Adaptation is not evolution.
Science is the testing of theories. Not necessarily the cataloging of facts. Hence, teaching ‘science’ is teaching of those theories.
At the core of the issue is this, the Bible is a book of faith, a book of the Word of God. It is a true book. And the prince of this world does not want that book to be read as The Word. It suits him to have it picked apart and mocked. And the cornerstone of his effort is to discredit Genesis, the book of creation, the first book. If that is not true, then what of the rest?
Ah, there is the slippery slope of it. IF one is to believe that God exists and that the bible is His Word, then it is essential that it be true, as God does NOT lie. But if Genesis be not true, then what of the rest?
I for one, after a lifetime of secular living, have come to believe in the Word of God. It has much to teach. Say what you will, mock it or believers if you will, lable believers as Luddites if you will, it does not change the Word.
I do not know how to be more clear and precise. BamaKennedy and his crew are using The 'scientific methodology' a process by which a few decided who is most fit. And they are using the TOE to settle some scores while those now most fit are gorging themselves at the taxpayers trough and putting the rest of US into bondage. That system is not a new thing it originated back when the dinos walked this earth. Then a big bang.
I think you are trying to dab and whitewash over what fig leaves have hidden over a few thousand years. Alleles my right eye. Because it took proverbially speaking Moses seat to authorize the scientific methodology as public education. Now did I misread above, or did you say to teach the 'controversy'? In due time.
In short, the history of modern antievolutionism laced with marginal cultism.
Heh, heh - you can always tell when you've hit the target when no one bothers to respond to your post. Well done.
So, you think that yours should have pre-eminence just because it’s your opinion that you have a better reason than anyone else for teaching what you think is correct?
And it’s totally irrelevant what the majority of the populace wants as demonstrated by these polls?
Welcome to the USSA, where the self-appointed, self-described (alleged) intellectual elite gets to decide for everyone else what’s best for them. Screw the wishes of the majority of the parents who are paying their taxes to have their children educated. Nice. /s
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2006/03/americans_overwhelmingly_suppo.html
Headline: “Americans Overwhelmingly Support Teaching Scientific Challenges to Darwinian Evolution, Zogby Poll Shows” From March 2006.
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=719
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Free Republic Poll on Evolution
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1706571/posts?page=63#63
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Creationism makes a comeback in US
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1856224/posts
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Teaching creation and evolution in schools
Solid research reveals American beliefs
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v13/i2/teaching.asp
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Survey Finds Support Is Strong For Teaching 2 Origin Theories
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B07E4D9143BF932A25750C0A9669C8B63
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Public Divided on Origins of Life
http://people-press.org/report/254/religion-a-strength-and-weakness-for-both-parties
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Americans Believe in Jesus, Poll Says (creation poll results included)
http://derekgulbranson.com/2005/01/17/americans-believe-in-jesus/
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Should intelligent design be taught alongside the theory of evolution? Please answer this Poll.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2103111/posts
Even some Muslim theologians joined the Darwin bandwagon: “Muslim writings from the tenth and eleventh centuries referred to a hierarchy of beings, from minerals to flora and fauna, and even argued that apes were lower forms of humans – more evidence for nineteenth-century Muslims that Darwin’s theory was ‘nothing new’.”
How could such diverse religious traditions find common ground in Darwin? The reasons are complex and somewhat counter-intuitive. Elshakry argued that “One of the driving forces behind many of these scholars’ work was a desire to push back against the forces of Western imperialism.” But wasn’t Darwin a European, you ask? Actually, envy may have been more weighty a cause than a desire for enlightenment:
In response, defenders of non-Western faiths drew attention to the greater rationality of their creeds to defend themselves against Western charges of backwardness and superstition. Many were keen to show that their traditions, unlike those of Western Europe, accepted, reinforced or had even anticipated the findings of modern science. By embracing Darwin’s ideas, they emphasized that Christianity alone was in conflict with science.She gives an example:
Muhammad Abduh, the Grand Mufti of Egypt, for instance, was worried about the inroads that missionaries had made into the educational system of the Muslim Ottoman lands. He was also tired of critics pointing to Islam’s supposed inability to accommodate modern pedagogy and science. In Science and Civilization in Christianity and Islam (1902), Abduh argued that, in contrast to Christianity, Islam was free of the conflict with science that had so violently plagued Christian civilization in Europe. To stress this difference, he repeatedly wove references to Darwin and evolution into lectures on the exegesis of the Koran.
http://creationsafaris.com/crev200910.htm#20091029a
Perhaps the above has something to do with why the presigious Temple of Darwin journal Nature praises the state of science in Iran while criticizing the Christian West!
You are correct that this is about 'target' practice. And it really is not about how old this earth is, it is about the fruit off the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that started this very old fairy tale, called TOE in the so called modern-era. And the cultist of the cults got themselves first in line at the taxpayers trough.
emphasized that Christianity alone was in conflict with science.
We are, after all, called to be separate, apart, different, peculiar ;^)
We are called to walk by Faith, NOT by sight.
Great links.
So what exactly or who exactly is this Temple of Darwin you keep posting about? Is there an address or photos of it or is it a fabrication like so many of your other conclusions?
It’s in our public schools, our universities, and the MSM...and most of all, it’s in your heart.
Oh, so its a metaphor. You have to appreciate the difficulty keeping up with literalists who rely on metaphor and allegory to communicate their points.
Seriously. Get off your high horse, you are nothing but a man. And a snotty, smarmy one at that.
By the way; if you post retarded comments (like your was), a smart person (like you think you are) should know that you are going to get comments of the like.
Hypothesis: If I post stupid crap, I will get stupid replies from my stupid crap post.
Test: Post stupid crap
Analyze: Read and record the response to my stupid crap comment
Communicate Results: If I post stupid crap, most people will respond to that stupid crap post by posting stupid crap back.
M I r tooo dum???
That being the case I would doubt that “international academics” invited to the Carnegie sponsored conference would include noisy atheist/Darwinist, Richard Dawkins, whose books aren't exactly best sellers in Muslim countries.
Like an African bushman who wonders why he must wear a three piece suit and wing-tips to be considered “civilized”
Muslims might well wonder why they must accept evolution to be considered “modern and educated”.
"Some" is definitely not "all" Muslims.
There is a huge creationist movement in Turkey right now that is totally discombulating the few remaining Darwinist scientists there. It completely undermines Darwinist assumptions of common ancestor and natural selection. It posits the Cambrian explosion as the Creation event. Thus this model of creationism says that the Creation was about 150 billion years ago; after that time the species remained remarkably stable (that is, not producing a plethora of speciation willy-nilly, as Darwin's theory seems to predict). The major exponent of this creationist theory is Harun Yaya, whose article I read in the outstanding book, Divine Action and Natural Selection, edited by Joseph Seckbach and Richard Gordon (2008).
Sigh. I bought the book; I read it; I loved it for the amazing range of coverage of its subject matter from a diversity of scientific disciplines (biologists, physicists, astronomers, astrophysicists) and opinion. Because many of the articles are followed by "discussions" with critics of the authorial point of view, there were some really fun "food fights" going on. Probably the most fun involved responses to Harun Yaya.... LOLOL!
Anyhoot, I'd love to quote you from these exchanges here but alas!!! I cannot find the book!!! I can't imagine I lent it to anyone. I just can't find it.... Jeepers, I hope I don't have to replace it (it wasn't cheap).
Great book. Highly recommended. :^)
Yes there is a huge and growing Muslim creationist movement based in Turkey, and rapidly spreading throughout the Muslim world—especially to Muslim’s who reside in the West. This should open up many opportunities for Christian missionaries, as it will make it easier to preach the gospel message, while at the same time helping us fight the War on Terror, because Muslim’s who become part of this particular creationist movement are taught to denounce terrorism being waged in the name of Islam.
Having said that, Muslim creationists are not without a few disturbing ideas of their own. For instance, they are still opposed to the state of Israel (but not violently so), are prone to wacky conspiracy theories, and most of them long for an (albeit peaceful) restoration of the Ottoman Empire...which, ironically, would be a step up for much of the Muslim world...but a unified Islam, even a peaceful Islam, is a very disturbing prospect, no matter which way you slice it, as the Jihadis would be gunning to make said unity their own 24/7.
You are too emotional on this. - I’m a big supporter of Israel, but that doesn’t include covering up the deeds of individual sages. Textual analysis supports the idea that the writers of the Koran were posessed of the knowledge and beliefs of the sages of the early centuries AD.
Nothing antisemitic about it. Its just a simple fact of history.
Is admitting that white europeans kept slaves Anti-European?
You are a true piece of work!
Islamic countries have schools that study biology?
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