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Soft Muscle Tissue Found in Fossil Salamander (evos claim it is 18 million years old!)
CEH ^ | November 6, 2009

Posted on 11/09/2009 9:44:55 AM PST by GodGunsGuts

Nov 6, 2009 — More soft tissue has been found in a fossil – this time in a salamander said to be 18 million years old.  The article on PhysOrg called it “the highest quality soft tissue preservation ever documented in the fossil record.

Unlike the previous discoveries of fossil tissue inside bone or amber, the recognizable sinewy muscle tissue was found tucked inside the body of the animal.  “The scientists claim that their discovery is unequivocal evidence that high-fidelity organic preservation of extremely decay prone soft tissues is more common in the fossil record - the only physical record of the history of life on earth.”

Were the scientists at University College Dublin surprised by their discovery of this fossil in southern Spain?  Yes and no; they acknowledge that soft-tissue preservation is extremely rare, but also think that more is to be found.  A new treasure hunt is on.  “Using the same sampling methods and high resolution imaging that led to this find, scientists will now begin to investigate existing fossils in national museums and elsewhere across the world, for similar types of soft tissue preservation.”  This was not taken as a challenge to Darwinian time scales.  The article ended, “further discoveries will help scientists paint a better picture of life on earth since the beginning of evolutionary time.”

Notice that the evolutionists don’t want to tell the truth; they want to paint a picture.  Evolutionary time is dancing in the visions of their closed eyes.  Instead of seeing the falsification of evolutionary time, they see its vindication – sketched out on the canvas of imagination.  View their picture as abstract art of visions and dreams, not as the history of the world.

(Excerpt) Read more at creationsafaris.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antiscienceevos; atomsdonotexist; creation; darwiniacs; electricityisfire; evolution; evoreligionexposed; godsgravesglyphs; gravityisahoax; intelligentdesign; paleontology; science; templeofdarwin
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Soft tissue has also been found in dinosaurs!:

Dinosaur blood cells, blood vessels and proteins: have they been found, and how could they have survived the alleged millions of years?

1 posted on 11/09/2009 9:44:55 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: metmom; DaveLoneRanger; editor-surveyor; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; MrB; GourmetDan; Fichori; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 11/09/2009 9:46:50 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
This was not taken as a challenge to Darwinian time scales.

Conclusions must never be reconsidered. All we can do is re-think how to portray the evidence in such a way as to continue to prop up the old established conclusions.

Note: Challenging a time scale or reconsidering the age of fossils would not (necessarily) be an attack Evolution, nor would it (necessarily) be a defense of Creationism. It would merely show that new evidence makes people re-check their old conclusions. That's all.

3 posted on 11/09/2009 9:52:39 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Play the Race Card -- lose the game.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

[[Were the scientists at University College Dublin surprised by their discovery of this fossil in southern Spain? Yes and no;]]

They are settign hte stage to later declare ‘We once thought that 50 million year old tissue coudl not be preseved, but after many discoveries, it is now clear that nature was somehow able to preserve soft tissue far logner than we ever dared dream it could- this is a fascinating discovery, and just proves how elastic science needs to be, and how scientists need to keep an open mind because hte evidences quite often conflict with current theories. we now know that what was ocne htought to be ‘extremely rare’, is now quite a normal occurance, and we now have the evidence to investigate further millions of years old soft tissue. We don’t know how nature was able to preserve the tissue, but we assure you that ‘one day’ we will discover hte answers IF we just keep an open mind”


4 posted on 11/09/2009 9:53:21 AM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: GodGunsGuts

You know, you guys are right.

Just the other day, I’d swear I saw a Dinosaur crossing the road. (Sarcasm)


5 posted on 11/09/2009 9:53:51 AM PST by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Wow, that’s some well aged meat!


6 posted on 11/09/2009 9:57:20 AM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Notice that the evolutionists don’t want to tell the truth; they want to paint a picture.

You're quoting from an editorial comment (for all we know, not even written by a scientist), not a scientific article.

7 posted on 11/09/2009 10:00:04 AM PST by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

I look at some of these “keywords” and it makes me chuckle:

antiscienceevos; atomsdonotexist; ...electricityisfire; ....ravityisahoax;


8 posted on 11/09/2009 10:01:03 AM PST by scottdeus12 (Jesus is real, whether you believe in Him or not.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Soft tissue preservation is actually quite common. I have a twinkie that is almost as old as those fossils, and I’m pretty sure it’s still edible.


9 posted on 11/09/2009 10:02:05 AM PST by Auntie Dem (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Terrorist lovers gotta go!)
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To: ZULU

Yes, but WHY did the dinosaur cross the road? (Inquiring minds, etc., etc...)


10 posted on 11/09/2009 10:02:24 AM PST by Clioman (wHAT)
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To: GodGunsGuts

“Dinosaur blood cells, blood vessels and proteins: have they been found, and how could they have survived the alleged millions of years?”

They survived because they’re FOSSILIZED! They’re rock. They’re not soft anymore, and haven’t been soft for 18 m years.

“”We noticed that there had been very little degradation since it was originally fossilised about 18 million years ago,


11 posted on 11/09/2009 10:02:31 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Salamander; Markos33

Ping (for obvious reasons)


12 posted on 11/09/2009 10:02:50 AM PST by shibumi (" ..... then we will fight in the shade.")
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To: Clioman

To join the RINOs of course. They both are on the road to extinction.


13 posted on 11/09/2009 10:03:47 AM PST by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: ZULU
You know, now that you mention it, it wasn't too long ago that fisherman caught a live Coelacanth that was thought to be extinct, and that supposedly predated the dinos by hundreds of millions of years. Now Coelacanth sightings are quite common:


14 posted on 11/09/2009 10:03:51 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

I’ll keep my eye open for Dinosaurs - along with RINOs.


15 posted on 11/09/2009 10:05:53 AM PST by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
==They survived because they’re FOSSILIZED! They’re rock. They’re not soft anymore, and haven’t been soft for 18 m years.

Do these look like rock to you?


16 posted on 11/09/2009 10:07:56 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

PS The PhysOrg article specifically says that the “scientists have extracted *organically preserved* muscle tissue from an 18 million years old salamander fossil.” Organically preserved muscle tissue is not rock.

The article goes on to state “According to the University College Dublin geologists, the muscle tissue is organically preserved in three dimensions, with circulatory vessels infilled with blood.”

http://www.physorg.com/news176660912.html


17 posted on 11/09/2009 10:13:55 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

One must marvel at the depth of the faith of these scientists.


18 posted on 11/09/2009 10:15:22 AM PST by rae4palin
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To: GodGunsGuts

Yes. Did you read the article linked to at your link.
“Previous examples of soft tissues fossilised in this way have been limited to samples extracted from amber or inside bone .
“fossilized”


19 posted on 11/09/2009 10:15:36 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: CottShop

Dude. It’s called spell check. It’s free.


20 posted on 11/09/2009 10:16:59 AM PST by rae4palin
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To: GodGunsGuts

So, GGG - I’m curious - how long ago do you think dinosaurs roamed the earth (i.e., t-rex, etc..)?


21 posted on 11/09/2009 10:17:54 AM PST by scottdeus12 (Jesus is real, whether you believe in Him or not.)
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To: SunkenCiv
This thread is deteriorating, but the idea of Jurrasic Salamander is kinda interesting.
22 posted on 11/09/2009 10:19:11 AM PST by colorado tanker (What's it all about, Barrrrry? Is it just for the power, you live?)
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To: rae4palin

if i gave a rip, i’d use it- but i don’t


23 posted on 11/09/2009 10:20:10 AM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: shibumi; Salamander
shibumi: I wouldn't want to be you right now (for obvious reasons)


24 posted on 11/09/2009 10:20:40 AM PST by Semper Mark ("Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples liberty's teeth.")
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

I know the terminology they use can be confusing, but make no mistake, they are finding dino soft tissue, to enclude proteins, connective tissue, blood vessels and even blood cells:

Dinosaur soft tissue and protein—even more confirmation!

Mary Schweitzer announces even stronger evidence, this time from a duckbilled dino fossil, of even more proteins—and the same amazingly preserved vessel and cell structures as before.

http://creation.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-and-protein-even-more-confirmation


25 posted on 11/09/2009 10:25:22 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: scottdeus12

Dinos existed at least up to the time of (and a tiny number just after) the flood of Noah, which is why we are finding so many dinos with soft tissue still intact.


26 posted on 11/09/2009 10:29:48 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Yeeha!!! Saddle up and ride that T-Rex!


27 posted on 11/09/2009 10:41:21 AM PST by Wacka
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To: GodGunsGuts

More FOSSILIZED “soft tissue structures” being passed off as “soft muscle tissue” , I see.

Move along folks, this is not the “soft tissue” you are being told it is....this is FOSSILIZED soft tissue STRUCTURE, nothing more.

....bet they don’t even know WTH “soft tissue” is....and it has nothing to do with being “soft.”


28 posted on 11/09/2009 10:42:39 AM PST by ElectricStrawberry (Didja know that Man walked with 100+ species of large meat eating dinos within the last 4,351 years?)
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To: Clioman

CLEARLY, the dinosaur crossed the road to eat the vegetables on the other side. Wait, did they even have roads pre-Fall?


29 posted on 11/09/2009 10:44:44 AM PST by ElectricStrawberry (Didja know that Man walked with 100+ species of large meat eating dinos within the last 4,351 years?)
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To: GodGunsGuts

So why do you assume soft tissue could last 6,000 years, but not 18,000,000 years?

Once the specimen is sealed and the decay process stops, the length of time becomes irrelevant.


30 posted on 11/09/2009 10:46:56 AM PST by BigBobber
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To: scottdeus12

Easy one....dinosaurs lived with Man until 4,351 years ago...when the Flood killed them all.


31 posted on 11/09/2009 10:48:22 AM PST by ElectricStrawberry (Didja know that Man walked with 100+ species of large meat eating dinos within the last 4,351 years?)
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To: GodGunsGuts

I’m heading over to read this link 3G, but here’s something I found on the dino “Dakota.”

“They believe the hippo-sized Dakota fell into a watery grave, with little oxygen present to speed along the decay process. Meanwhile, very fine sediments reacted with the soft tissues of the animal, forming a kind of cement.”


32 posted on 11/09/2009 10:48:53 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: GodGunsGuts

So have there ever been man and dino bones found in the same strata of earth?

I’m not poking fun by the way - just asking.


33 posted on 11/09/2009 10:57:24 AM PST by scottdeus12 (Jesus is real, whether you believe in Him or not.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

“the terminology they use can be confusing”

That’s for sure! One of the articles I read about “Dakota” referred to it as a “mummy” in one paragraph. If you just read that one sentence, you’d think one thing. But, in the following paragraph, it became clear the “mummification” was actually the fossilization of the whole body. Bones, soft tissue, and even the skin! They used a giant CT scanner to “cut” through the different layers of the fossilized “mummy.”


34 posted on 11/09/2009 11:08:54 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: GodGunsGuts; Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
"Do these look like rock to you?"

What they look like has no relevance. Can you provide an elemental analysis? The fossilization is a substitutional process in which the organic portion of the tissue is replaced in three steps; carbonization, premineralization, and petrification. The resulting fossil is stone that can look exactly like the original material.

35 posted on 11/09/2009 11:23:05 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: GodGunsGuts

“...a salamander said to be 18 million years old.”

The Medicare costs alone.....


36 posted on 11/09/2009 11:34:31 AM PST by elephantlips
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To: Natural Law

I know it’s difficult for evos to swallow, but they are indeed finding dino soft tissue, and they are finding it on a fairly regular basis now:

Oldest Dinosaur Protein Found — Blood Vessels, More

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/05/090501-oldest-dinosaur-proteins.html


37 posted on 11/09/2009 11:40:18 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
"I know it’s difficult for evos to swallow, but they are indeed finding dino soft tissue, and they are finding it on a fairly regular basis now:"

I know it's difficult for YEC's to swallow but National Geographic can be read by non-YEC's too. The following link is to an article in a subsequent issue of the National Geographic that casts doubt on many of the soft tissue finds.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/07/080730-dinosaur-tissue.html

Additionally, if the fossilization process can be interrupted such that carbonization is not permitted to happen (maintaining an anaerobic state and no exposure to heat above 100C) soft tissue elements such as proteins can be maintained as well as the fruit in your momma's canned preserves.

38 posted on 11/09/2009 11:52:31 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: Natural Law
My link is subsequent to yours, not the other way around. Your link is dated July 2008, my link is dated May 2009. As such, the scientific controversy over dino soft tissue has been resolved in favor of dino soft tissue preservation.
39 posted on 11/09/2009 12:06:53 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
"As such, the scientific controversy over dino soft tissue has been resolved in favor of dino soft tissue preservation."

As usual your science is a wrong as your theological interpretations. No controversy has been resolved because one does not exist. You have not proved your young age assertion for the specimens you posted as satisfying neither of the conditions I stated. Without elemental analysis you haven't established that it is even organic or if it is organic the conditions of its anaerobic preservation.

40 posted on 11/09/2009 12:20:33 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: Natural Law

There was indeed a controversy over whether the dino soft tissue was indeed soft tissue. That controversy has now been resolved in favor of dino soft tissue preservation, and, as mentioned above, such soft tissue finds are being discovered on a fairly regular basis now.


41 posted on 11/09/2009 12:26:09 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

But, but, there is no mention of dinosaurs or giant reptiles in the bible, how can they even exist? There has never been a fossil found with butcher cut-marks indicating primitive (before the flood of course) ate them. Since Kosher laws didn’t come into being until after the flood that can’t be the reason.......Its all just too hard to comprehend.........LOL


42 posted on 11/09/2009 12:32:00 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: GodGunsGuts
Soft Muscle Tissue Found in Fossil Salamander (evos claim it is 18 million years old!)

How old does the Bible claim it to be?

43 posted on 11/09/2009 12:35:22 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Natural Law

There are indeed descriptions of what appear to be dinos in the Bible.


44 posted on 11/09/2009 12:44:14 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
"There are indeed descriptions of what appear to be dinos in the Bible."Please do point them out to me.
45 posted on 11/09/2009 12:55:10 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: scottdeus12

There has been man footprints and dinosaur footprints found side by side, in Glen Rose, TX.

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks.htm


46 posted on 11/09/2009 1:13:21 PM PST by Ro_Thunder ("Other than ending SLAVERY, FASCISM, NAZISM and COMMUNISM, war has never solved anything")
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To: Natural Law

Leviathans are ‘large sea creatures’.

http://www.bibleandscience.com/bible/books/genesis/genesis1_leviathan.htm

Behemoths are ‘large land creatures’.

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml


47 posted on 11/09/2009 1:21:43 PM PST by Ro_Thunder ("Other than ending SLAVERY, FASCISM, NAZISM and COMMUNISM, war has never solved anything")
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To: GodGunsGuts

Every single story I have read on FR about soft tissue being found in ancient fossils comes from a Creationist site.
This means one of two things.

1. The creationists are the only ones willing to share raw data and let the chips fall where they may.
2. The creationist sites are batsh** crazy.

I’m honestly not sure which is true, but I am tending to lean towards number one at this point.

There is a third option: Other sources are just not being reported on FR.


48 posted on 11/09/2009 1:24:22 PM PST by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: Ro_Thunder

Just a quickie - what is your opinion on the “fire breathing” description of leviathan?


49 posted on 11/09/2009 1:26:12 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

I watched a program (one of an endless series, it seems) on the Science channel about the purported asteroid that destroyed the dinosaurs.
According to the graphics within hours of the hit firestorms spread around the earth burning everything into a layer of charcoal found just above the KT layer.

But, But what happened to the birds and feathery things, and insects? No trees, no food, so what happened to them?

This didn’t seem to a question that merited consideration, unlike the supposed burrowing mammals.


50 posted on 11/09/2009 1:26:52 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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