Posted on 11/10/2009 11:51:56 AM PST by nckerr
Click on the photos...This is craziness. The political correctness of the military. The Army and Marines are more trained with weapons and safety than the police. Why would they embarrass our Soldiers by making them pull guard with empty weapons...
(Excerpt) Read more at news.search.yahoo.com ...
When I was there the base entrance was guarded by armed private security contractors.
GR-r-r-r-r-r!!!
Castrating them on duty.
Why not save money by giving them toy guns instead? They have to be cheaper than empty M-4s.
It's even difficult to discern if they're holding M4s or MP-5s. But, it appears both may have magazines inserted in their weapons.
I heard about this yesterday and had hoped that it wouldn’t go public.
Why not arm the guards with that Turkish tennis ball machine gun. I hear that’s pretty lethal.
Well I garantee the only loaded weapons within a mile of the president today are secret service and probably hand picked by him.
ONE WORD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> INSANE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just left active-duty this past summer. Most of the bases I've either been stationed at, or have visited have been guarded at least partially by civilian contractors. That's not necessarily true internationally, but it seems to be true at the domestic bases, and has been true since the military draw-down of the early '90s.
I don’t disagree with you, but all the armed guards in the Army wouldn’t have stopped the Ft. Hood Terrorist. He was an insider.
He’d have nothing to fear.
Real Americans wouldn’t dream of shooting him,
and the Muslims that would, know he’s on their side.
I don’t think this is anything new. I served as an MP in Korea and Ft. Bragg in the late 80’s and most times I (we) was not allowed to have a loaded M-16 and/or .45 on duty. We walked patrols in the local villages and provided all kinds of security.
This has always been the case. My husband served on guard . duty at Ft Hood....his weapon was never loaded. His Sgt at Arms had ammo
How can you tell from those photos that their weapons are unloaded ????
The weapons have their magazines inserted so unless you have x-ray eyes what are you basing your statement on?
And if you have a source for that why would you spread that publicly to put these soldiers at greater risk than their peon leaders have?
Loose lips sinks ships.
Wait until the ones that are in the Navy and are stationed on warships get the word to go into action.
Forget the Jihad terrorists, what about protecting us and our millitary from those Gadsden Flag Tattooed, Ron Paul Bumper Sticker, Tea Party Militia member Janet Napoleon-o tells to be scared shiftless about?
Do they have to keep the cartridges in their shirt pockets?
Whenever I hard guard duty at Ft Dix in the 60’s, the only guards who had live ammo were those guarding the ammo facilities. The MPs on duty at the stockade I believe had live ammo but not having had to visit it, I don’t know for sure. All others were either not armed or without ammo.
These are assault weapons. Let’s not make them any more dangerous than we have to.
“I don’t think this is anything new. I served as an MP in Korea and Ft. Bragg in the late 80’s and most times I (we) was not allowed to have a loaded M-16 and/or .45 on duty. We walked patrols in the local villages and provided all kinds of security.”
I served in the Army in West Germany, 1969-1970.
We walked guard in our motor pool area, which included Secret Crypto comminication equipment.
We DID have ammo. (But we won that war)
Looks like magazines to me.
I guess some people would “feel” better knowing the guns were not loaded. Wouldn’t want anyone to feel “uncomfortable”.
Who wrote this crap?
For as long as I can recall, this has been the case.
Winner of the most honest response of the day.
Which is why every single soldier, while on post, should be carrying a sidearm. Especially after this.
It looks like they either lack magazines, or (improbably) have 5-round hunting magazines. No evidence of mag pouches on their web gear.
Kind of a dumb comparison.
The PG was an elite military unit. The SS is civilian.
The PG had tremendous political clout, to the point they often chose the next emperor and forced him down the throat of the Senate. The SS has none.
The PG put down riots and provided more or less police services in the capital. The SS does not.
What do you think the two organizations have in common, other than the (essential) job of protecting a head of state?
The weapons have their magazines inserted so unless you have x-ray eyes what are you basing your statement on?
LOL, that was good.
Unloaded it no more than an expensive club.
you’re correct...nearly all the bases and posts have civilian guards at the gates. The drawdowns plus the ongoing ops tempos with ongoing wars overseas and other military engagements have pulled the security forces personnel off the CONUS bases and pushed ‘em overseas.
Sigh...my heart is heavy today as I watch the memorial service from Ft Hood.
It’s probably determined by the posted threat level. I served as a USAF Security Policeman from ‘68-’72 and we were always issued ammo for our weapons...38’s and M-16’s both overseas (Korea in my case) and stateside (Nellis AFB). We loaded up in the “Clearing Barrell” by the armory before shift and unloaded at the same place when relieved. The carrying of weapons is supposed to mainly be for deterrence, so how are you deterred if you see Security carrying unloaded weapons.
My, as you say ‘stupid’, comparison was meant as more of a slight to Obama than to the Secret Service.
The Praetorians protected “emperors” which I think kinda suits our “Dear Leader” Obama.
Contrast that with rank and file soldiers being “disarmed” here at home while even on friggin guard duty and that Secret Service are armed to the hilt - kinda evokes a “decline of Rome” analogy.
I think I win on “subtle reference” points.
i concur with your observations as well...
For as long as I can remember the only armed guards at gates on AF installations are at the security areas where some of our aircraft are parked and there is an internal security gate. Last time I was in one of the areas, they are still guarded by military Security Police.
Security needs beefed up IMHO after some instances I have been privvy to in the last few months at AF Installation.
The guards on the USS Cole also had no clips. That’s why they couldn’t shoot the Zodiac as it approached.
We they holding M1 Garands?
And if the Navy or USAF has loaded weapons and they are barely trained on weapons, how much more should the Soldiers and Marines be allowed to have amuunition in their weapons? The actual boots on the ground highly trained warfighters?
That's correct, at least in part. A few were armed, but only with sidearms and only with two rounds each - hardly the stuff to repel a suicidal attack. Both crew served weapons, forward and aft were unmanned as well. Lastly, even if they had been armed appropriately, the rules of engagement were such that it prohibited the sailors from firing preemptively.
While the official investigation cleared the ship's captain - he set force protection using the directed guidelines - the report clearly identified that those same force protection guidelines were woefully inadequate.
There are plenty of people for many years that have vocally stated that US service men and women should never stand watch with unloaded weapons, except of course in training, like boot-camps. But, common sense and practical responsibility continues to give way to political correctness. Command is more afraid of accidental discharge or lost weapons with ammunition than they are of actually protecting the principle - the principle in this case actually being US service men and women.
i see a rear grip and a foregrip. no mags.
Zooming in, looks to me like they’re empty. Not an uncommon bureaucratic response to such events.
I see foregrips on M4A1’s, but no mags. Army doesn’t use MP5’s unless they are SPECFOR. But I’m sure they’ve got mags with them. It only takes 1-2 seconds to pop a mag and chamber the first round.
Hmmmmmmm, can someone tell me how Caligula met his end? I seem to have forgotten that one.
*Whistles with eyes upturned*
ditto
I think a lot of people tend to be under the assumption that the military has enough training to carry loaded weaponry around safely all the time. This is not the case. Go to any place there are guns (shooting range, firing line, gun show, gun shop) and you will see that safety is the number one priority. Not necessarily safety from other people and/or shootings like this, but safety from accidental discharge. When you are away from the firing line, mags are out, chambers are cleared and safeties are on. It’s no different here, really. I don’t believe that it’s 100% of a PC decision... even though that may be a part of it. It’s more for a stop-gap against accidents than anything else.
We may not see mags loaded in the guns, but that doesn’t mean they are defenseless. These guys are trained to load a gun and shoot in a matter of seconds.
Zoomed in on the pictures. Sure looks like no mags.
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