Posted on 11/10/2009 11:51:56 AM PST by nckerr
Click on the photos...This is craziness. The political correctness of the military. The Army and Marines are more trained with weapons and safety than the police. Why would they embarrass our Soldiers by making them pull guard with empty weapons...
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We they holding M1 Garands?
And if the Navy or USAF has loaded weapons and they are barely trained on weapons, how much more should the Soldiers and Marines be allowed to have amuunition in their weapons? The actual boots on the ground highly trained warfighters?
That's correct, at least in part. A few were armed, but only with sidearms and only with two rounds each - hardly the stuff to repel a suicidal attack. Both crew served weapons, forward and aft were unmanned as well. Lastly, even if they had been armed appropriately, the rules of engagement were such that it prohibited the sailors from firing preemptively.
While the official investigation cleared the ship's captain - he set force protection using the directed guidelines - the report clearly identified that those same force protection guidelines were woefully inadequate.
There are plenty of people for many years that have vocally stated that US service men and women should never stand watch with unloaded weapons, except of course in training, like boot-camps. But, common sense and practical responsibility continues to give way to political correctness. Command is more afraid of accidental discharge or lost weapons with ammunition than they are of actually protecting the principle - the principle in this case actually being US service men and women.
i see a rear grip and a foregrip. no mags.
Zooming in, looks to me like they’re empty. Not an uncommon bureaucratic response to such events.
I see foregrips on M4A1’s, but no mags. Army doesn’t use MP5’s unless they are SPECFOR. But I’m sure they’ve got mags with them. It only takes 1-2 seconds to pop a mag and chamber the first round.
Hmmmmmmm, can someone tell me how Caligula met his end? I seem to have forgotten that one.
*Whistles with eyes upturned*
ditto
I think a lot of people tend to be under the assumption that the military has enough training to carry loaded weaponry around safely all the time. This is not the case. Go to any place there are guns (shooting range, firing line, gun show, gun shop) and you will see that safety is the number one priority. Not necessarily safety from other people and/or shootings like this, but safety from accidental discharge. When you are away from the firing line, mags are out, chambers are cleared and safeties are on. It’s no different here, really. I don’t believe that it’s 100% of a PC decision... even though that may be a part of it. It’s more for a stop-gap against accidents than anything else.
We may not see mags loaded in the guns, but that doesn’t mean they are defenseless. These guys are trained to load a gun and shoot in a matter of seconds.
Zoomed in on the pictures. Sure looks like no mags.
I saved it on my HD and zoomed in. I think you're both right. It also doesn't encourage confidence in me that neither are wearing tactical vests or ammo pouches. I suppose both could have magazines in their cargo pockets.
If you're holding a weapon, you become a primary target in an attack - a threat to the attacker. If you're a primary target in an attack, it's seems foolish not to be able to return fire if fired upon. It's common sense to me.
Oh,and the guard at the Company Armory only had three live rounds in his magazine.
Never could figure that out.
Oh,and the guard at the Company Armory only had three live rounds in his magazine.
Never could figure that out.
I heard some dingbat say that the reason that they didn’t allow soldiers to carry their firearms on base was because they didn’t want someone to start shooting up the place and then other people shooting at him and yet others shooting at them. That is EXACTLY the stupid argument that the anti-gunners use to try to disarm citizens.
Truthfully, you and I know that allowing all soldiers on base full access to guns is not a good idea. They are too young and tend to drink too much when not on duty. However, why can’t there be a few armed individuals in every work place? They don’t have to carry the gun openly, which actually would be a bad idea as a nutcase like Hassan would know who to sneak up on and take out first. Keep the number and identity of those charged with security confidential and keep any shooter guessing.
I’m at one of the biggest Navy base on the West coast and the entrance security is guarded by the civilian police. We also have the service guards armed to the teeth with armored vehicles patrolling the periphery because they are responsible for “other” sensitive materials :)
What if just a few personnel, in each workplace were armed? The list would be kept confidential and the soldiers would carry their weapons concealed.
An attack on the checkpoint would be over in a matter of seconds. I don't think you understand how long a second is under such circumstances.
...you will see that safety is the number one priority.
That's like not wearing a seat belt until you're sure the car is about to crash.
Not at the best schools. Having learned assorted lessons, many/most serious ranges have gone "hot". Training people to go "cold" gets people killed. Yes, there is risk at "hot" ranges - but military training MUST accept those risks, lest they lose more in the field. The situation in question isn't about training, it's about actual protection of a high-risk high-value target. You fight as you train - you practice "cold", you'll fight "cold". We've seen this many times, and many died thanks to such bureaucratic sentiments.
Rule #1 is "all guns are always loaded" - not just so you'll treat it like it's dangerous, but so it will be when you need it to be.
Do we? They're SOLDIERS! On a MILITARY BASE! that they would ALL be disarmed - even the guards at the gate - is INSANE. Make sure so many are so clearly armed that any nutcase would KNOW it was pointless to even try.
If they're too young and too drunk to carry then they're too inept to be trusted with being there at all.
I couldn't disagree with you more, and find your contempt for our best revolting.
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