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Getting over our love for Darwin (Many Christians are still Infatuated with Darwin)
The Texan Southern Baptist ^ | 11/10/2009 | Dr. William Dembski

Posted on 11/10/2009 2:43:38 PM PST by SeekAndFind

Charles Darwin published his “Origin of Species” in 1859. There he presented the classic formulation of his theory of evolution. Lady Ashley, reacting to the theory at the time, remarked, "Let's hope that it's not true; but if it is true, let's hope that it doesn't become widely known." Lady Ashley's second hope has failed: Darwin's theory is everywhere and has now become textbook orthodoxy. This year, universities around the globe are celebrating the 150th anniversary of Darwin's “Origin of Species” as well as the 200th anniversary of his birth.

But what about Lady Ashley's hope that Darwin's theory is false? Darwin presented a bleak picture of ourselves: we are mere modified apes; we are the "winners" in a brutal competitive evolutionary process, most of whose players are "losers," wiped off the evolutionary scene before they could leave a legacy; the traditional Christian view that we are made in God's image is simply a story we tell to convince ourselves that we're special.

Intelligent design supporters like me view Darwin's theory as untrue and even as laughable: The theory purports to give a materialistic account of life's development once life is already here, but it has a gaping hole at the start since matter gives no evidence of being able to organize itself from non-life into life. The fossil record, especially the sudden emergence of most animal body plans in the Cambrian explosion, sharply violates Darwinian expectations about the historical pattern of evolutionary change. The nano-engineering found in the DNA, RNA, and proteins of the cell far exceeds human engineering and remains completely unexplained in Darwinian terms.

Darwin lovers are quick to reject such complaints. After all, as novelist Barbara Kingsolver declares, Darwin's idea of natural selection is "the greatest, simplest, most elegant logical construct ever to dawn across our curiosity about the workings of natural life. It is inarguable, and it explains everything." Kingsolver is no fan of Christianity. Yet many Darwin lovers are Christian. Francis Collins, who directs the National Institutes of Health, is a Christian Darwinist. Leaving aside a healthy skepticism that regards every scientific theory as refutable in light of new evidence, Collins exempts Darwinian evolution from such skepticism: "evolution, as a mechanism, can be and must be true."

Any theory that explains everything and that can and must be true is either the greatest thing since sliced bread or the greatest swindle ever foisted on gullible intellectuals. The intelligent design community takes the latter view, siding here with Malcolm Muggeridge, who wrote: "I myself am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially the extent to which it's been applied, will be one of the great jokes in the history books in the future. Posterity will marvel that so very flimsy and dubious an hypothesis could be accepted with the incredible credulity that it has."

Still, it's easy to understand why so flimsily a supported theory garners such vast support. It provides the creation story for an atheistic worldview. If atheism is true, then something like Darwinian evolution must follow. Hence, any attack on Darwin becomes an attack on the atheistic secularism that pervades our culture.

Nonetheless, even though atheism implies Darwinism, the reverse is not true: Darwinism does not imply atheism. Indeed, Christian theists who embrace Darwin abound.

The wedding between Darwinism and Christianity, however, is an uneasy one. To be sure, plenty of marriages are uneasy, and uneasy marriages are often endured because divorce can entail more difficulties than endurance. Thus, when I got involved with the evolution controversy 20 years ago, I naively thought that any Christian, given sufficient evidence against Darwinism, would immediately jump ship. Darwinian evolution, according to Cornell historian of biology Will Provine, is "the greatest engine of atheism ever invented." Why should Christians stick with such an engine when it's no longer needed?

Little did I realize how infatuated many Christians are with Darwin. Having convinced themselves that design is an outdated religious dogma, they embraced Darwinism as a form of enlightenment. And having accommodated their faith to Darwin, they became loath to reexamine whether Darwinism is true at all. Unlike Lady Ashley, Christian Darwinists hope that Darwinism is true. But is it really? In this year of Darwinian bacchanalias, let us soberly reassess whether Darwin's theory is indeed true. And if the evidence goes against it, as the intelligent design community is successfully demonstrating, then let's be done with it. In that case, reconciling Christianity with Darwinism becomes a vain exercise, solving a problem that no longer exists.

—William A. Dembski is research professor in philosophy at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and is the author of prominent books in the field of intelligent design, including his latest, “The Design of Life: Discovering Signs of Intelligence in Biological Systems,” written with biologist Jonathan Wells.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: belongsinreligion; blogspam; creation; darwin; darwinism; evolution; godsgravesglyphs; intelligentdesign; notasciencetopic; propellerbeanie; science; spammer

1 posted on 11/10/2009 2:43:39 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
explore a giraffe's anatomy. The giraffe has a sponge in it's head that holds oxygen rich blood that keeps it from passing out every time it bends its neck to drink or feed. Who else but an engineer would know to do that?
2 posted on 11/10/2009 2:49:22 PM PST by txroadkill ( 9/12/2009 another win for the Gipper!)
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To: SeekAndFind

bmflr


3 posted on 11/10/2009 2:49:31 PM PST by rdl6989 (January 20, 2013 The end of an error.)
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To: txroadkill

Wonderful!


4 posted on 11/10/2009 2:54:03 PM PST by bethybabes69 (Between you, and whatever you call God, there is no authority, only an illusion of it.)
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To: txroadkill
Who else but an engineer would know to do that?

Darwinists explain this as NATURAL SELECTION. The animals that have the most genomic advantages get to pass on their strongest genes to their offspring to produce what we see today.
5 posted on 11/10/2009 2:56:41 PM PST by SeekAndFind (wH)
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To: SeekAndFind

“I myself am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially the extent to which it’s been applied, will be one of the great jokes in the history books in the future. Posterity will marvel that so very flimsy and dubious an hypothesis could be accepted with the incredible credulity that it has.”

Awesome.


6 posted on 11/10/2009 3:01:38 PM PST by rae4palin
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To: SeekAndFind

I added “creation” to the keyword list.


7 posted on 11/10/2009 3:02:38 PM PST by rae4palin
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To: rae4palin

I added “science” to the ping list :o)


8 posted on 11/10/2009 3:11:25 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: SeekAndFind
Link correction:

http://www.theonion.com/content/index

9 posted on 11/10/2009 3:13:38 PM PST by org.whodat (Vote: Chuck De Vore in 2012.)
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To: SeekAndFind

While Darwinism may not directly imply atheism, it certainly goes against biblical creation...and it certainly implies deism, for how could a loving God create using suffering and death as one of the main mechanism for evolution?


10 posted on 11/10/2009 3:17:39 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
"how could a loving God create using suffering and death as one of the main mechanism for evolution"

Even without evolution suffering and death is a vital part of the food chain.

There was a whole lot of suffering and death documented in the Bible, some of which was completely a result of Man's fallen nature, but some of it was necessary for our own education and salvation.

Did the Israelites really have to spend 40 years wandering in the desert? Did that many Egyptians have to suffer and die before the Israelites were let go? Did all but the few who were on the Ark have to be drowned?

God's ways are above our understanding, but they seem to involve lots of suffering and death.

And I didn't even mention Christ's suffering and death on the cross.

11 posted on 11/10/2009 3:46:25 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear (These fragments I have shored against my ruins)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

The Bible specifically contradicts evolution. It says that God created everything very good, and that suffering and death did not enter the world until mankind sinned against God. The Bible claims degeneration from a pristine state, not steady improvement from an inferior state.


12 posted on 11/10/2009 4:20:33 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
"While Darwinism may not directly imply atheism,"

Good to see you have dropped the "evo-atheist" insults and accusations. You are indeed making progress.

13 posted on 11/10/2009 5:23:12 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: SeekAndFind
Darwinism does not imply atheism.

Even though Darwin himself fell away from the Christian faith he had in his early years?

14 posted on 11/10/2009 7:00:54 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: SeekAndFind
The animals that have the most genomic advantages get to pass on their strongest genes to their offspring to produce what we see today.

Just rattle that blather off and we neanderthals will just have to accept it; eh?

15 posted on 11/10/2009 7:02:03 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: SeekAndFind
Little did I realize how infatuated many Christians are with Darwin.

Little do these 'Christians' know what their Holy Book says!

16 posted on 11/10/2009 7:03:15 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: GodGunsGuts
It says that God created everything very good,

God created everything and everything was very good

or

Everything that God created was very good?

17 posted on 11/10/2009 7:11:08 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: Elsie
 

Charles Darwin (1809-1882)

"By further reflecting that the clearest evidence would be requisite to make any sane man believe in the miracles by which Christianity is supported,—and that the more we know of the fixed laws of nature the more incredible do miracles become,—that the men at that time were ignorant and credulous to a degree almost incomprehensible by us,—that the Gospels cannot be proven to have been written simultaneously with the events,—that they differ in many important details, far too important, as it seemed to me to be admitted as the usual inaccuracies of eye witnesses;—by such reflections as these, which I give not as having the least novelty or value, but as they influenced me, I gradually came to disbelieve in Christianity as a divine revelation. The fact that many fake religions have spread over large portions of the earth like wildfire had some weight with me. But I was very unwilling to give up my belief; I feel sure of this, for I can remember often and often inventing day-dreams of old letters between distinguished Romans, and manuscripts being discovered at Pompeii or elsewhere, which confirmed in the most striking manner all that was written in the Gospels. But I found it more and more difficult, with free scope given to my imagination, to invent evidence which would suffice to convince me. Thus disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate, but was at last complete. The rate was so slow that I felt no distress, and have never since doubted even for a single second that my conclusion was correct."

( Charles Darwin in his Autobiography of Charles Darwin, Dover Publications, 1992, p. 62. )


Charles Darwin (1809-1882)

"I think that generally (& more & more as I grow older), but not always, that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."

( Quoted from Adrian Desmond and James Moore, Darwin: The Life of a Tormented Evolutionist, New York: W. W. Norton & Company, 1991, p. 636. )

 
 
 
 

 1 Timothy 1:20-21
 20.  Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge,
 21.  which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith.   Grace be with you.

 
 Proverbs 4:13
   Hold on to instruction, do not let it go; guard it well, for it is your life.
 

  Hebrews 3:6
   But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.
 

 Hebrews 3:14
   We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.
 

 Hebrews 6:11
   We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure.
 
 
  Hebrews 12:3
   Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:11-13
 11.  Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him;
 12.  if we endure, we will also reign with him.
If we disown him, he will also disown us;
 13.  if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.
 

 2 Peter 2:20-21
 20.  If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
 21.  It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.
 
 
 
 2 John 1:8
  Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.
 

 Jude 1:21
   Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
 

 Revelation 2:25
   Only hold on to what you have until I come.
 

 Revelation 3:11
   I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.


18 posted on 11/10/2009 7:16:16 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Most Christians 'believe' Evolution because they do NOT know what their Bible says.

If, as they say, they 'believe' the words of Jesus and the New Testament writers,

then they have to decide what the following verses mean:

Acts 17:26-27
26. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.
27. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

Romans 5:12-21
12. Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--
13. for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
14. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
15. But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16. Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
17. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18. Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.
19. For just as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20. The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,
21. so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If there were no one man, that means SIN did NOT enter the World thru him.

If Adam was NOT the one man, that means SPIRITUAL DEATH did not come thru him.

If SIN did NOT enter the World thru the one man, that means Jesus does not save from SIN.

Are we to believe that the one man is symbolic? Does that mean Jesus is symbolic as well?

The Theory of Evolution states that there WAS no one man, but a wide population that managed to inherit that last mutated gene that makes MEN different from APES.

 

Acts 17:24-26

24. "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.
25. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.
26.
From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.

Was LUKE wrong about this?

1 Corinthians 11:8-9
8. For
man did not come from woman, but woman from man;
9. neither was man
created for woman, but woman for man.

1 Timothy 2:13

For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

Was Paul WRONG about these???

If so, is GOD so puny that He allows this 'inaccuracy' in His Word??

 


And THIS verse is completely against E!!!

 Genesis 2:18
The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

19 posted on 11/10/2009 7:18:04 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: SeekAndFind

Thanks for posting this.


20 posted on 11/10/2009 7:31:09 PM PST by Rocky (OBAMA: Succeeding where bin Laden failed.)
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To: Rocky

“Intelligent design supporters like me view Darwin’s theory as untrue and even as laughable:”

I find it laughable that Christians support IDers who believe in evolution and that God is dead.


21 posted on 11/10/2009 7:38:53 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: ColdWater

I believe in God, the Creator. I don’t think man came from apes, or that man and ape evolved from the same species. I believe there are indications of intelligent design in the way life is organized and reproduces itself.

I am pleased to see scientists and philosophers backing the concept of intelligent design, even though some of them say that they don’t believe in God. These people are coming to their conclusions based on evidence, not on religious belief. Sure, I wish everyone could have the comfort and joy of a relationship with God, but if that isn’t possible, I am encouraged at least that a stake is being driven through the heart of Darwinism.

Darwinism is responsible for a great darkness in the world, and the deaths of many millions of innocent people. I long for the day, which I believe is coming in the future, when scientists will wonder and shake their heads, mystified as to how so many scientists could have tricked themselves into believing in and proclaiming Darwin’s theory.


22 posted on 11/10/2009 7:52:01 PM PST by Rocky (OBAMA: Succeeding where bin Laden failed.)
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To: Rocky
I am pleased to see scientists and philosophers backing the concept of intelligent design,

You do realize that ID is based on man's common descent, just like darwinism.

23 posted on 11/10/2009 7:56:04 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: Rocky
I long for the day, which I believe is coming in the future, when scientists will wonder and shake their heads, mystified as to how so many scientists could have tricked themselves into believing in and proclaiming Darwin’s theory.

I bet you will live to see the opposite. You are in such a small minority. Even Christian schools do not teach your YEC nonsense.

24 posted on 11/10/2009 7:57:51 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: Elsie

Good stuff.


25 posted on 11/10/2009 8:16:08 PM PST by rae4palin
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To: Rocky

No. I do not regard Genesis as a scientific text. I have no vested theological interest in the age of the earth or the universe. I find the arguments of geologists persuasive when they argue for an earth that is 4.5 billion years old. What’s more, I find the arguments of astrophysicists persuasive when they argue for a universe that is approximately 14 billion years old. I believe they got it right.

WD


26 posted on 11/10/2009 8:17:26 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: ColdWater

I haven’t said that I believe in the “young earth”. I only said that I believe in a Creator God.

Bye.


27 posted on 11/11/2009 1:37:32 AM PST by Rocky (OBAMA: Succeeding where bin Laden failed.)
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To: rae4palin

Notable how an great intellectual can be such a fool.


28 posted on 11/11/2009 5:30:34 AM PST by Oztrich Boy
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To: Rocky
I haven’t said that I believe in the “young earth”. I only said that I believe in a Creator God.

The fossil evidence is overwhelming that early man was much different from modern man.

29 posted on 11/11/2009 8:05:25 AM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: Rocky
I haven’t said that I believe in the “young earth”. I only said that I believe in a Creator God.

OECers have more to fear from YECers than from evolutionists. YECers say that after they kill evolution, they will take on the OECers till everyone believes the only 'true' religion, a 6000 year old earth.

30 posted on 11/11/2009 8:25:05 AM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: SeekAndFind
To All To Whom These Presents Shall Come: Greetings

Please draw no conclusions regarding the intelligence, creativity, or reasoning capability of Christians from the content of this thread. We are not all this stupid.

31 posted on 11/11/2009 9:16:24 AM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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