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Chinese challenge to 'out of Africa' theory
New Scientist ^ | 11/03/09 | Phil McKenna

Posted on 11/10/2009 8:39:50 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster

Chinese challenge to 'out of Africa' theory

00:01 03 November 2009 by Phil McKenna

The discovery of an early human fossil in southern China may challenge the commonly held idea that modern humans originated out of Africa.

Jin Changzhu and colleagues of the Institute of Vertebrate Palaeontology and Palaeoanthropology in Beijing, announced to Chinese media last week that they have uncovered a 110,000-year-old putative Homo sapiens jawbone from a cave in southern China's Guangxi province.

(Excerpt) Read more at newscientist.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: archaeology; catastrophism; china; godsgravesglyphs; guangxi; homosapiens; liujiangskull; multiregional; multiregionalism; origins; outofafrica; prehistory; science; tianyuancave; toba
So they think they found 'Chinese' Lucy?
1 posted on 11/10/2009 8:39:51 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I did not come out of Africa.I cam out of China.

Ask the guy who owns the local “Gold Dragon” restaurant.


2 posted on 11/10/2009 8:41:26 PM PST by Candor7 (The effective weapons Against Fascism are ridicule, derision, and truth (.Member NRA)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

You know the Chinese... they created everything according to their history books.


3 posted on 11/10/2009 8:45:38 PM PST by Bogey78O (Don't call them jihadis. Call them irhabis. Tick them off, don't entertain their delusion.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

How fascinating.

My understanding is that backtracking DNA markers also put the first homo sapiens in the African continent.

This will be interesting to watch unfold — our knowledge on that critical period will be expanded greatly as new avenues of research open.


4 posted on 11/10/2009 8:47:09 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Bogey78O

>>You know the Chinese... they created everything according to their history books.<<

Yeah, but an hour later you want them to create it again...


5 posted on 11/10/2009 8:47:49 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Candor7
Chinese and Mulism, each of them feel entitled to be the Master of Universe everybody else should bow to. They share large blame for the mess we are in today.
6 posted on 11/10/2009 8:49:48 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster (LUV DIC -- L,U,V-shaped recession, Depression, Inflation, Collapse)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Were we all black when we came out of Africa then turned white, yellow etc when we moved out of there. So in just 100k years. Africans, Europeans and Asians looks so different?


7 posted on 11/10/2009 8:55:54 PM PST by 4rcane
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Humans Migrated Out Of Africa, Then Some Went Back, Study Says
8 posted on 11/10/2009 8:59:29 PM PST by blam
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Minatogawa People (An Asian Neanderthal?)
9 posted on 11/10/2009 9:02:21 PM PST by blam
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To: TigerLikesRooster

RRRRrrrrrrrrucy...!!!

10 posted on 11/10/2009 9:04:11 PM PST by gaijin
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Thats IS a fact! I often wonder why they want tio screw America. I mean they really do consider themselves superior to America these days, man on the street.

One wonders why then, they all want to live here.


11 posted on 11/10/2009 9:04:32 PM PST by Candor7 (The effective weapons Against Fascism are ridicule, derision, and truth (.Member NRA)
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To: TigerLikesRooster; blam

This was one of Bucky Fullers ideas - that humans actually emerged from SE Asia.

He has some pretty good evidence supporting it, but it’s been years since I read the book...


12 posted on 11/10/2009 9:07:15 PM PST by djf (Maybe life ain't about the doing - maybe it's just the trying... Hey, I don't make the rules!)
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To: 4rcane
Right. Certain small change could lead to big difference, especially in appearance. Catastrophic natural event can also have big impact on this. Suddenly human population shrink to a small fraction of what it once was, and force them into smaller isolated groups with no interaction for hundreds of generations.
In this kind of situation, changes shows up in much faster pace.
13 posted on 11/10/2009 9:11:27 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster (LUV DIC -- L,U,V-shaped recession, Depression, Inflation, Collapse)
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To: Candor7

There is only one way to settle this with the Chinese. I dare them say that the Great Chairman Mao was descended from an ape.


14 posted on 11/10/2009 9:12:14 PM PST by Fee (Peace, prosperity, jobs and common sense)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Bogey78O
>>You know the Chinese... they created everything according to their history books.<<

>Yeah, but an hour later you want them to create it again...

“Now that’s funny, I don’t care who you are.” (Larry the Cable Guy circa 2003).


15 posted on 11/10/2009 9:25:30 PM PST by cashless
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To: TigerLikesRooster
In this kind of situation, changes shows up in much faster pace.

Yea it's called birth defects.

16 posted on 11/10/2009 9:37:15 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Romak 7.62X54MM, AK47 7.62X39MM, LARGO 9X23MM, HAPINESS IS A WARM GUN BANG BANG YEA YEA)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Jin Changzhu and colleagues of the Institute of Vertebrate Palaeontology and Palaeoanthropology in Beijing, announced to Chinese media last week that they have uncovered a 110,000-year-old putative Homo sapiens jawbone from a cave in southern China's Guangxi province.

I wonder what happened to H. Sapiens in S. China when the Toba Volcano went off 74,000 years ago?

17 posted on 11/10/2009 9:43:33 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Obama: Grasping at Straw Men _ Not a Public Option It's a government mandate.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Let's cut the c**p. We can't have this.

Racist.

After all, the only claim that Africa has to the history of civilization or humanity, is the continuing PC theory that it is the mother of all humanity.

Subduction zones, newer continents vs older continents. The only place you can look is the only place you can find "proof."

That's a curious circle.

18 posted on 11/10/2009 10:07:53 PM PST by Publius6961 (…he's not America, he's an employee who hasn't risen to minimal expectations.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

“Chinese challenge to ‘out of Africa’ theory”

Racists!!


19 posted on 11/10/2009 10:11:53 PM PST by aquila48
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To: guitarplayer1953
Right. Birth defect == unwanted mutation.
However, it survives on a small isolated population, turning into an enduring trait. Later, it can even turn out to be useful in the new environment.
20 posted on 11/10/2009 10:23:39 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster (LUV DIC -- L,U,V-shaped recession, Depression, Inflation, Collapse)
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To: gaijin

LOL! “You got some ‘sprainin’ to do!”


21 posted on 11/10/2009 10:36:09 PM PST by BradyLS (DO NOT FEED THE BEARS!)
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"Don't be rrridiculous, vee came out of Wrussia." :)
22 posted on 11/10/2009 10:46:52 PM PST by ReneeLynn (Socialism is SO yesterday. Fascism, it*s the new black. Mmm Mmm Mmm.)
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To: 4rcane

the simple answer is yes. Take Roma for example — they came from n-w India and the Roma/Gypsies that are still in India are very dark skinned, but those in Europe are much lighter skinned. Why?


23 posted on 11/11/2009 5:59:57 AM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca NOW!!!)
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To: 4rcane
Evolution acting upon human genes for skin color, hair type, nose type, body type, lactose tolerance, malaria resistance, etc, etc.

And as another poster pointed out, the Chinese want to be first at everything. Australopithocine did exist in Africa for millions of years, and some may well have moved to China, but that doesn't necessitate that the Chinese australopithocine is the ancestor of modern man.

24 posted on 11/11/2009 6:06:13 AM PST by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: allmendream
Ahem, all this talk of a “Chinese Lucy” got me confused. It was a homo sapiens jaw from 110,000 years ago, not an australopithocine from a few million years ago.

Even LESS evidence that modern humans evolved out of Asia than if it were clearly an ancestral species to homo sapiens rather than just a very old homo sapiens.

25 posted on 11/11/2009 6:10:07 AM PST by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: SunkenCiv

ping


26 posted on 11/11/2009 6:32:43 AM PST by Fractal Trader
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To: freedumb2003

That DNA study was shown to be severely flawed a number of years ago.


27 posted on 11/11/2009 6:39:45 AM PST by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: Bogey78O

“You know the Chinese... they created everything according to their history books.”

I didn’t know that prior to taking a class about Chinese archeology. They also want to believe they aren’t related to other humans. While it’s certainly possible they’ve found very ancient human bones, I now take their scientific finds and interpretations with a giant grain of salt.


28 posted on 11/11/2009 6:58:16 AM PST by Varda
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To: Pharmboy

ping


29 posted on 11/11/2009 7:00:40 AM PST by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: thefactor
These data go along withy another post from yesterday which had data questioning the accuracy of DNA dating methodology. No surprise here.

To me, the out of Africa stuff always smacked a bit of the Rush Limbaugh point about the press and McNabb: they want it to be OOA so they disregard other evidence.

30 posted on 11/11/2009 7:25:30 AM PST by Pharmboy (The Stone Age did not end because they ran out of stones...)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Kind of like the birth defect of the Egyptian royalties they had inbred for so long they were producing birth defects.
31 posted on 11/11/2009 4:17:48 PM PST by guitarplayer1953 (Romak 7.62X54MM, AK47 7.62X39MM, LARGO 9X23MM, HAPINESS IS A WARM GUN BANG BANG YEA YEA)
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To: TigerLikesRooster; Fractal Trader; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; ..

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks Fractal Trader for the ping, and thanks TigerLikesRooster for posting this topic.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


32 posted on 11/11/2009 6:57:33 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: SunkenCiv

Chinese paleontologists claim this 110,000-year-old jawbone is from a Homo sapiens (Image: Institute of Vertebrate Palaeontology and Palaeoanthropology, Chinese Academy of Sciences)

33 posted on 11/11/2009 7:12:41 PM PST by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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To: Mike Darancette
"I wonder what happened to H. Sapiens in S. China when the Toba Volcano went off 74,000 years ago? "

The Hobbits on nearby Flores survived until about 12-13,000 years ago.

34 posted on 11/11/2009 7:27:47 PM PST by blam
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To: TigerLikesRooster
So they think they found 'Chinese' Lucy?

Rucy...

35 posted on 11/11/2009 8:40:16 PM PST by null and void (We are now in day 294 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: blam
Exactly so, that genetic bottleneck thoery is starting to not look too good.

Mount Toba Eruption – Ancient Humans Unscathed, Study Claims

36 posted on 11/11/2009 9:46:46 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Obama: Grasping at Straw Men _ Not a Public Option It's a government mandate.)
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To: Mike Darancette; SunkenCiv

Hey....that’s a very good article. Worthy of a GGG stand-alone posting.


37 posted on 11/11/2009 10:42:23 PM PST by blam
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To: Mike Darancette
"Exactly so, that genetic bottleneck thoery is starting to not look too good."

Actually, I think they found the bottleneck in the DNA and then went searching for a cause...and, found Toba.(Not positive though)

I think the DNA bottleneck is still there.

38 posted on 11/11/2009 10:44:53 PM PST by blam
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To: TigerLikesRooster; SunkenCiv; blam
This changes some of the preconceived notions about any Asian migration to N. America.

Keep Looking. boys!

39 posted on 11/12/2009 4:56:07 AM PST by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: 4rcane

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/human-family-tree


40 posted on 11/12/2009 4:59:36 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof. V for victory)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Thanks, I’ve done that. I’m yDNA=R1b1b2 and mtDNA=V.


41 posted on 11/12/2009 6:14:04 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
Interesting. Did you have any surprises?
42 posted on 11/12/2009 6:31:30 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof. V for victory)
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To: mad_as_he$$
"Interesting. Did you have any surprises? "

Yes.

* My mother is in haplogroup 'V' as are 52% of the Skolt Sami , Finland reindeer herders. (They don't like to be called Laplanders)

* I am a Dane from Ireland...my yDNA (R1b1b2) arrived in Ireland way back when, possibly as a Viking.

* Disappointed my liberal sister who wanted some much for us to have some Black blood and if not that, American Indian. (She's an idiot!)

43 posted on 11/12/2009 6:55:12 AM PST by blam
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To: Mike Darancette; blam

Ooooooh! I agree with blam! And I’m gonna post it... actually, there may have been something similar, but due to the headline it didn’t make as much of an impression on your sometimes-inattentive GGG pingmeister. :’)


44 posted on 11/12/2009 4:35:25 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: wolfcreek
Here's one of my common reprises:
The Scars of Evolution:
What Our Bodies Tell Us
About Human Origins

by Elaine Morgan
"The most remarkable aspect of Todaro's discovery emerged when he examined Homo Sapiens for the 'baboon marker'. It was not there... Todaro drew one firm conclusion. 'The ancestors of man did not develop in a geographical area where they would have been in contact with the baboon. I would argue that the data we are presenting imply a non-African origin of man millions of years ago.'"
Well, okay, you talked me into a bunch more. ;') Kind remarks will take you far. But I'll put it in the next message so I don't choke your screen. :')
45 posted on 11/12/2009 4:59:44 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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Tiny Fossil Animal
May Link Lower Primates
With Humans

by John Noble Wilford
March 16, 2000
Fossil bones of an animal no bigger than a shrew and weighing less than an ounce have been identified as belonging to the earliest known relative in the primate lineage that led to monkeys, apes and humans. The wee animal lived 45 million years ago in a humid rain forest in what is now China... scatterings of fossils point to the earliest primates of any kind appearing about 55 million years ago, mainly in Asia... although the more immediate human forebears arose in Africa, their earliest primate ancestors appeared to come from Asia. Somehow primates then migrated to Africa. Dr. MacPhee said the Euroasian origin of primates was now generally accepted by scientists, "thanks in part to Beard's work," but "why that should be is itself controversial now."
Monday, June 1, 2009, "Were our earliest hominid ancestors European?" by Bob Holmes
The face, jaw and teeth of a 12-million-year-old hominid named Anoiapithecus brevirostris. The fossil's presence in Spain suggests that hominids migrated from Europe into Africa before the evolution of modern humans (Image: National Academy of Sciences, PNAS)

Were our earliest hominid ancestors European?
Just 9-thousandths of a square inch in size, the teeth are about 54.5 million years old and suggest these early primates were no larger than modern dwarf lemurs weighing about 2 to 3 ounces...

Previous fossil evidence shows primates were living in North America, Europe and Asia at least 55 million years ago. But, until now, the fossil record of anthropoid primates has extended back only 45 million years...

In addition to stretching the primate timeline, the specimens represent a new genus as well as a new species of anthropoid, which the researchers have named Anthrasimias gujaratensis by drawing from the Greek word for "coal," Latin for "monkey" and the Indian State of Gujarat where the teeth were found.

"Anthrasimias may be the oldest anthropoid in the world," the PNAS report said -- "may" reflecting the fact that some scientists think slightly older fossils found in a Moroccan limestone deposit also could have been anthropoid, Kay said...

The teeth were dated by identifying microscopic marine plankton fossils of known age in nearby rock layers, he added...

Their PNAS report describes tooth structure differences that would separate Anthrasimias from two other ancient lines of primates whose remains have been found at the same level of the Vastan mine. Of the three lines, Williams and Kay believe only Anthrasimias's is part of the anthropoid lineage that evolved into modern monkeys, apes and humans...

"From the tooth size and structure we can say something about the animals' body weight and diet, because teeth have crests that are differentially developed depending on whether they ate primarily insects, leaves or fruit," he said.
-- Little teeth suggest big jump in primate timeline

Early humans lived in northern China about 1.66 million years ago, according to research reported in the journal Nature this week. The finding suggests humans -- characterized by their making and use of stone tools -- inhabited upper Asia almost 340,000 years before previous estimates placed them there, surviving in a pretty hostile environment.

The research team, including Richard Potts of the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of Natural History, reports the results of excavating four layers of sediments at Majuangou in north China. All the layers contained indisputable stone tools apparently made by early humans, known to researchers as "hominins."
-- Out of Africa: Scientists find earliest evidence yet of human presence in Northeast Asia

and...

The Link: Uncovering Our Earliest Ancestor The Link:
Uncovering Our
Earliest Ancestor

by Colin Tudge


46 posted on 11/12/2009 5:00:16 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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Israeli Site Yields 750,000 Year Old Fire Evidence
AP-via Duluth-News Tribune | April 29, 2004 | Randolf E Schimd
Posted on 04/29/2004 1:32:24 PM PDT by me_newswire
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1126858/posts

Discovery of Fire Pushed Back 500,000 Years
foxnews
Posted on 10/28/2008 9:57:36 PM PDT by Goonch
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2118232/posts


47 posted on 11/12/2009 5:01:22 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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48 posted on 11/12/2009 5:15:43 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: blam

The Chinese Homo Sapiens died out at the bottleneck and re- radiated back to China while the Hobbits survived in place? I’m assuming that the current day Chinese are genetically related to the rest of mankind and the bottleneck survivors. The Chinese could be mistaken too.


49 posted on 11/12/2009 6:21:35 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Obama: Grasping at Straw Men _ Not a Public Option It's a government mandate.)
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To: Mike Darancette
"The Chinese Homo Sapiens died out at the bottleneck and re- radiated back to China while the Hobbits survived in place? I’m assuming that the current day Chinese are genetically related to the rest of mankind and the bottleneck survivors. The Chinese could be mistaken too."

I don't think the 'Hobbits' are Modern Humans. The guy (forgot his name)who discovered them think they closely resemble these folks:

Strangers In A New Land

50 posted on 11/12/2009 7:08:57 PM PST by blam
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