Skip to comments.Salt Lake OKs Gay Rights Ordinances [This Is Where Mormons And Catholics Part Company]
Posted on 11/10/2009 10:02:51 PM PST by Steelfish
Salt Lake OKs Gay Rights Ordinances Mormon church which opposes same-sex marriage backs laws
SALT LAKE CITY - With a historic endorsement from the Mormon church, the Salt Lake City Council unanimously passed a pair of ordinances making it illegal to discriminate against gays.
Tuesday's action was the first time the Utah-based church which has been steadfast in its opposition to gay marriage has publicly supported gay rights legislation.
"The church supports these ordinances because they are fair and reasonable and do not do violence to the institution of marriage," Michael Otterson, the director of public affairs for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saintssaid.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
I would hope Christians part more with Mormons than on this issue.
Read Romans — Chapter 1
and then reference it back to the book of Leviticus.
Right there in the Bible!
** do not do violence to the institution of marriage,” Michael Otterson, the director of public affairs for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saintssaid.**
Yet actions such as this only add to the degradation of the family. This is sad.
WOW! Why do they have special privileges? Shouldn’t it be illegal to discriminate against anyone no matter the color, religion, or anything else. Are white straight people the only people that you cannot be cited for discriminating against? Is Utah going liberal or only Salt Lake City?
Salt Lake City has been pretty liberal for a long time (as far as Utah goes). Utah county down south is much, much more conservative.
Thanks! I was shocked to see this!
You and me both!
Pretty sad when Utah gives in to the gay agenda.
How weak are the Mormons becoming? They give in to the gay lobby. For what?
What part about Jesus being the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son DON’T you understand?
Mormonism is nothing more than a cheap cobbled over redo of freemasonry.
Google it and check it out.
Joseph Smith was a Mason.
The LDS has been battered mercilessly by the Gay Mafia since Prop 8 passed. There has been a documentary on gay Mormons, the whole "kiss in" fiasco. Under pressure, some are strong, some knuckle under.
I didn’t realize the slopes of the Wasatch were all that slippery.
Sorry to see them go in the incrementalist direction.
Pretty soon they will be 99.9% of the way to approving gay marriage and then the remaining tenth of a percent will be merely a technicality.
Wow. Good thing they aren’t going after something serious, like sin. Then they would really fold.
I read this as Mormons being more forgiving neighbors than Catholics. AND Mormons taking my kind of Libertarian stand in defense of the word “Marriage”.
They [the Mormons} won’t Force their Definitions on Gays, Nor will they let Gays corrupt their Definitions. Their respect for Individuality impresses Me.
Me? I was raised Unitarian [B4 the merger with the Universalists]... I’m happier having a Mormon missionary appear at my door than a Jehovah’s Witness.
Catholics should refrain from lecturing Mormons. They accepted former gay men as priests to meet their shortage of priests. Then they wonder why they have alter boy molestation problems which was kept under the rug until the problem got too large to hide. The Catholic church lost alot of members from that scandal and damn lucky they were not sued out of existance by the victims.
Homosexuality is a vice. The Mormons just let the homosexuals redefine their own crimes/abominations as "not a vice", and the Mormons are allowing themselves to be compelled by law to go along with the homosexuals. The Mormons are letting a tiny homosexual cabal with a track record of dishonesty, blackmail, and terror tactics redefine society. The worst people in society are making new rules for the best.
What part of that do you not understand? Homosexual practices are malum in se as well as malum prohibitum abominatum. When did you walk away from the truth as a basis for transacting society's business?
Your argumentum ex "so's your old man" is not an argument, it's an ad hominem. Catholics can criticize Mormons all day over anything they please. So can I, and I just did.
Giving gays a chance and then getting fooled by them, is now a disqualification for anyone who might want to say to the Mormons, "Hey, those guys will fool you -- better not believe them"?
Listen to yourself.
**Good thing they arent going after something serious, like sin. **
What do you think same-sex marriage is?
As I said above read the first Chapter of Romans and what St. Paul says about their deviant life style......then reference it back to Leviticus. (Don’t remember the exact chapter there.) But what Paul has based his beliefs on — even though is is talking to Jewish converts and Gentile converts to Christianity in Romans.
If one teacher is convicted of sexually molesting a student does that indict the entire faculty of all schools?
You can’t be so general in condemning ALL Catholics. Some priests made mistakes, yes, but the seminaries and newly ordained priests are very orthodox.
God brings adversity around to success in the case you are trying to cite.
I sincerely hope that happens in the case of Mormons also.
While the country goes to godless amoral Socialism, We conservatives/christians are bickering and nit-picking. We have to put our differences aside people and unify for the sake of our great land.
at this point, I'm almost ready to say to heck with marriage....the elites don't want us married....they want a loosely knit society where anything goes....they want men not to be attached to a family...
a society that is not connected is a society easily manipulated and controlled....
I don't believe in gay marriage, and if gays want to claim discrimination, I'll just say then pass a law that any two adults can insist they are "together" without marriage...two men..two women...a man and a woman.....any two....
why should gays be the only ones to avoid the marriage penalty tax?
You believe that the Church supporting ordinances against housing and employment discrimination are somehow a weakening of their position?
The Church is interested in protecting the sanctity of marriage, not in promoting discrimination. I don't see a problem with that.
Joseph Smith was a Juggler. Look it up.
“The measures make it illegal to discriminate against gays in housing and employment. Salt Lake the state's first city to to approve such laws.”
I see no logical reason to discriminate against gays based on housing and employment. If a couple of guys want to rent my rental property, I'm happy to rent it to them. If a couple of gay guys want to buy the house next door, I have no problem with that either. If the gay guy is the best salesman I can find, I'll jump at the chance to hire him. There is just no reason to discriminate in these areas.
In no way does that mean that I agree with their choice to engage in homosexual activities. I would also rent to a straight couple who are shacking up rather than getting married as long as I think they can pay the bill. I will hire a guy who has chosen not to marry his girlfriend. However, in like fashion, I will not agree with his choice to live in sin.
In both cases, I would use these things as example for my children of activities in which they should not engage when they are mature enough to understand such things. Both situations are sins by their participants.
Lastly I still oppose the law because it is unnecessary. People who discriminate in these areas on this basis fools. They will have inferior employees and may get a worse offer on the property they are selling if they discriminate. Let capitalism work.
I am a proud Mormon who stands against the homosexual agenda, but it is a stretch to show how this specific item negatively impacts society outside of the fact that it weakens the system of capitalism.
For transparency reasons, I am surprised by the hostility towards Mormons on this site. I have rarely encountered such negativity. Certainly there are many differences between the beliefs of Mormons and other Christians but I consider other denominations brothers and allies.
Those of us who consider ourselves conservative need to stick together politically even when we do not see eye to eye on religious matters. Shoot, I would welcome most Muslims to a conservative coalition if they had a bit of a reformation and stopped the nut jobs that wanted to kill the rest of us.
Every human born has a God-given right to discriminate against open homosexuality in their personal and business lives, and that goes for housing and employment. There is no such thing as being "openly" black, or Asian, or white, or disabled; there is no comparison. Whether or not a person is homosexual is between that person, his/her conscience, and God. I have ZERO WAY OF KNOWING if a person is homosexual unless they intend for me to know -- and that is not the case with race, and may or may not be the case with disability.
If people or a church or a landlord or a business wants to embrace and encourage open homosexualty and discriminate in favor of it, that's their God-given right as well, though I believe it is a poor choice, and I KNOW that God doesn't work collectively, he works individually, so those who take that right to go against God's word, will answer to God -- not to me or the government -- for it.
A Godly church should OPPOSE ordinances that prohibit people from discriminating against open homosexuality in their midst.
*They give in to the gay lobby. For what?*
To make a path for Romney, that’s what.
Joseph Smith was a Mason.
They got hammered for supporting Prop 8 in California. Perhaps they are trying to make amends for that or are falling into the age old trap of wanting to be liked.
Anyway you cut it, they are done. They caved. End of story.
>>>For transparency reasons, I am surprised by the hostility towards Mormons on this site. I have rarely encountered such negativity
Collateral damage. Any mud a certain clique here can splatter against the wall hoping it sticks on Romney, they throw. Somehow they seem to think this will make Ron Paul the next leader of the free world. Nobody said they were logical.
It’s just going to get worse as the bozo attacks on Romney rev up. They seem to be posting new threads daily now. On the other hand I was really getting bored with the breathless and generally pointless “exposes” on Megan McCain.
>>>Joseph Smith was a Mason.
“And so also were most of the early presidents of the U.S.”
And so is Jackie, and so was James, and so are jars.
Before you complain about the mote in your brother’s eye, remove the plank that is in your eye.
I am an evangelical Protestant. I do not agree with the LDS theologically, but I do agree with you that some main stream religious members have anti Mormon sentiments (unfortunately it also includes members in my denomination). Like I said, I do not agree with Mormons on theological matters, but as everyday citizens, Mormons (rarely drink, smoke or swear, strong family values and best preparers for emergencies) are an asset. This accusation that Mormons knuckle to world demands by Catholics is extremely hypocritical. The Catholic Church has a long history of functioning in a worldly manner. Look at all the Catholic politicians that are given a pass on their personal behavior (alcoholism, convenient divorces, infidelity, pro abortion, etc, etc) by the Church leadership. I have not even started with their acceptance of former gay men in the seminary for priethood (gee what happen to the teachings of Ephesians and 1st Timothy on qualifications for a priest) to meet their shortfall of priests and the church’s position on illegal immigration (which contradicts their existing catechism on Catholic immigrants should obey the laws of their host nations). Bottom line is before any denomination starts to go after another denomination, they better make sure that they themselves are squared away.
Yes. (But it's still 50% Lds)
Except that if we take what you just said as some "Thou Shalt" absolute, then no Catholic would ever be able to speak out against an educator accused of sexual abuse. (We can just hear you respond to some Catholic poster on that thread, lecturing them that Catholics should refrain from lecturing educators.)
Or you could point to pro-abortion Catholic politicians like Teddy & John Kerry & Pelosi & many others, and say, Catholics should refrain from lecturing anybody on abortion given all their "exceptions."
Comments like yours are simply designed to encourage folks to "stuff" their free expression.
Jesus, who made this statement, clearly saw that plank. Are we to assume either that you have a clear view of poster-strangers' "planks" -- and/or that you or your church ties are all "beam-free?"
I mean, David in the Psalms complains about people laying traps for him all the time. Some of the seemingly judgmental imprecatory psalms are attributed to him. Yet if we read Ps. 51, we see a remorseful adulterer/manslaughter asking for repentance. Would you say that David's track record on sexuality, etc was such that he was off-base to be putting down his enemies the way he did in Psalms?
Jesus gave a great compliment to the outward "assets" of legalistic Pharisees when he said that unless your righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees & the teachers of the law, "you will certainly NOT enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matt. 5:20). Yet, later, in Matthew 23, Jesus said:
25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. 27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
Are you saying Jesus' emphasis is to only look upon the outward assets? If so, the Pharisees & the teachers of the law passed your standards w/flying colors and Jesus was mistaken to "diss" them.
Mormons (rarely drink, smoke or swear,...
(Well, so far that describes my pets, too)
...strong family values...
(like eternal polygamy, or the belief expressed by Lds apostle Bruce McConkie in his book carried in most Mormon stores that the Mormon jesus would re-institute earthly polygamy upon his return?)
...and best preparers for emergencies) are an asset.
(Well, kudos to that, but this also describes a decent number of secular govt folks who also take their 10% from folks)
Bottom line, hey, if you're auditioning for godhood, which temple Mormons are, you better be on your best outward behavior.
So forcing a retailer to say, higher an open cross-dresser, is part of your "anti-discrimination" campaign?
Good point. Often missed. The homosexual community used to argue that folks should stay out of their bedroom. It's their "privacy." (For the past 15 years or so, they've constantly been bringing their bedroom into the workplace & everywhere else)
The mormons just love that deviant sex stuff....
They have it in their doctrines ...
Acoording to D&C 132 a guy cant leave Earth without it...
By giving homosexually a pass, the mormons think they can phase back in their beloved “first principal” of wholesale adultery and wife swapping called polygamy...
The mormons just love that deviant sex stuff....
They have it in their doctrines ...
Acoording to D&C 132 a guy cant leave Earth without it...
By giving homosexuality a pass, the mormons think they can phase back in their beloved “first principal” of wholesale adultery and wife swapping called polygamy...
Both are considered cults by Christians.
They merely reflect the official views of your church in regards to Mormonism, which church do you belong to?
"One issue I want to clarify concerns President Clintons dont ask, dont tell, dont pursue military policy. I believe that the Clinton compromise was a step in the right direction. I am also convinced that it is the first of a number of steps that will ultimately lead to gays and lesbians being able to serve openly and honestly in our nations military. That goal will only be reached when preventing discrimination against gays and lesbians is a mainstream concern, which is a goal we share."
Sincerely, Mitt Romney
You are changing the subject, no one cares about your personal views, they care about you forcing them to comply with your personal views in their lives too.
Shoot, when Catholics had a problem with pedophiles, I defended the church as a whole even when many Catholics would not. When people attack southern baptists for being so vocal I defend them as well.
As far as Romney goes, he will only get my vote if he is the Republican nominee. Palin for president. I already have the bumper sticker.