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Mormon church supports Salt Lake City's protections for gay rights
Deseret News ^ | Nov. 10, 2009 | Scott Taylor and Aaron Falk

Posted on 11/11/2009 6:01:17 AM PST by Colofornian

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So a religious landlord who wants to honor the Lord by not having a heterosexual cohabiting couple or a homosexual "couple" rent their properties is now on the opposite side of the official LDS church?

All because they can't stand the heat by the homosexual crowd? They are sending the wrong message to them & their bully tactics -- and that's on top of coming down wrongly in trying to treat "sexual orientation" as protected class status.

How does the Mormon church define "sexual orientation" anyway?

1 posted on 11/11/2009 6:01:17 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Please do not alter headlines.


2 posted on 11/11/2009 6:02:32 AM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator

I didn’t. (I just double-checked)


3 posted on 11/11/2009 6:04:17 AM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: Colofornian

So much for the Mormon Church standing on principles. They caved to the Gay lobby.


4 posted on 11/11/2009 6:06:17 AM PST by PhiKapMom (Mary Fallin - OK Gov/Coburn - Senate 2010 ! Take Back the House/Senate! Stop ZERO!)
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To: PhiKapMom

Yep. This will encourage more militant homos to terrorize anyone who disagrees with their agenda.


5 posted on 11/11/2009 6:10:52 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker (Support our troops, and vote out the RINO's!)
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To: Colofornian

Wow.

This is even more huge than the Episcopalians doing it. How could someone who has actually read the Bible AND THE CONSTITUTION support this? It goes against both. The constitution does not treat people differently. The law applies equally to all. It is not necessary to call out straights, gays, black, blue, baseball fans, or any other group.

And of course that is the minor point. The Bible is the main one.


6 posted on 11/11/2009 6:11:21 AM PST by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: Colofornian
I'm okay with this. Gays are no worse than anyone who sins. They shouldn't be denied access to housing or employment. But too, their sinful relationships shouldn't be recognized as legal marriages.

If a landlord chooses not to rent to them or to people of certain ethnicities, or religions, then perhaps he shouldn't be a landlord any more.

JMHO

7 posted on 11/11/2009 6:13:03 AM PST by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: PhiKapMom

The Republican Party was organized to oppose those twin vestiges of barbarism: slavery and polygamy. Once buggery is not only legalized, but sanctified, can there be any bar to polygamy? Who knows, maybe our grandchildren will enjoy the benefits of both polygamy slavery under shira law.


8 posted on 11/11/2009 6:13:48 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Only in America does being convicted of a capital crime increase your life expectancy.)
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To: Colofornian

>>...and that’s on top of coming down wrongly in trying to treat “sexual orientation” as protected class status. <<

You nailed it. Our country is founded on a constitution that protects the individual, not “classes”.

In the US, the individual - not classes or groups - is king.


9 posted on 11/11/2009 6:15:41 AM PST by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: Colofornian; Admin Moderator

Please do not alter headlines.

2 posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:02:32 AM by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator
I didn’t. (I just double-checked)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

An honest mistake on the part of the Admin Mod; I’m sure. Anyone looking at this headline might mutter; “What the....” and automatically assume it’s a made up headline


10 posted on 11/11/2009 6:18:13 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (I am Legend)
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To: Colofornian

That’s because I changed it for you, just like I did yesterday.


11 posted on 11/11/2009 6:18:56 AM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: colorcountry
I'm okay with this. Gays are no worse than anyone who sins. They shouldn't be denied access to housing or employment...If a landlord chooses not to rent to them or to people of certain ethnicities, or religions, then perhaps he shouldn't be a landlord any more.

CC, you're a dear sister in the Lord, but here's my take. Because we're a country built on religious freedom, one of those freedoms is to follow our own conscience and Scripture. So let me ask you, if a Christian or Mormon landlord reads in their Bible, "...do not share in the sins of others." (1 Timothy 5:22) -- and then if they try to follow that admonition by not providing a...
...brothel to a tenant
...or a marijuana den
...or a heterosexual cohabiting couple
...or a group marriage
...or a homosexual couple
...then shouldn't that landlord be able to follow either 1 Tim. 5:22 or their conscience?

12 posted on 11/11/2009 6:20:21 AM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: Admin Moderator

Well, thank you. (I didn’t see my error, whatever it was).


13 posted on 11/11/2009 6:21:18 AM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: Colofornian

Salt Lake City has been moving left for a long time, just like the SC who insist on “Lovable Lindsey” in the Senate.


14 posted on 11/11/2009 6:21:21 AM PST by Theodore R.
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To: Colofornian

That’s quite an accomplishment. Just cut & paste next time and you’ll be fine.


15 posted on 11/11/2009 6:23:12 AM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator; Colofornian

Not saying that it happened here but I’ve seen web sites change their own head lines after one has been up for a while.


16 posted on 11/11/2009 6:28:23 AM PST by Graybeard58 ( Selah.)
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To: Admin Moderator; Colofornian

Not saying that it happened here but I’ve seen web sites change their own head lines after one has been up for a while.


17 posted on 11/11/2009 6:29:00 AM PST by Graybeard58 ( Selah.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets; colorcountry
Once buggery is not only legalized, but sanctified, can there be any bar to polygamy?

The pandora's box of honoring "sexual orientation" is that often it's left undefined -- as if every "sexual orientation" under the sun has to be elevated and dignified.

Even when some of these city ordinances seek to qualify them in some way, they wind up philosophically militating against what they're trying to do. I mean, here they say you shouldn't "discriminate" vs. a given "sexual orientation," and yet they specifically give protected class status to just their pet "sexual orientation."

18 posted on 11/11/2009 6:29:54 AM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: Colofornian

Used to be you could count on Mormons being conservative. That has been wearing down for years. Lots of mushy liberal Mormons out there. Plus they are illegal immigrant friendly in Utah

Still are conservative Mormons but their ranks are thinning


19 posted on 11/11/2009 6:31:52 AM PST by dennisw (Obama -- our very own loopy, leftist god-thing.)
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To: Graybeard58

Yes, it happens. But usually not in the five seconds between the time of the original post and the time I check.


20 posted on 11/11/2009 6:35:52 AM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: Colofornian
Ya think this had church approval before the city council voted on it?
21 posted on 11/11/2009 6:41:10 AM PST by Graybeard58 ( Selah.)
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To: Colofornian
Nothing new from the dollar is God crowd, same bunch wants illegals so they can convert them and then collect offerings.
22 posted on 11/11/2009 6:42:21 AM PST by org.whodat (Vote: Chuck De Vore in 2012.)
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To: colorcountry

As the mother of a homosexual son, I will tell you there is no darker hell than watching a young man desend from handsome, educated, talented, loved by all his family and friends into a mean, deceitful, lying, freak....bleach blond mohawk, tattoos, filthy mouth, hiv positive....it just gets unglier and uglier.
We all love him as we always have, but he is beyond our reach.
All of these pro-homosexual laws and compromises only enable, and encourage this behavior and breaks my heart. What on earth is wrong with a society that encourages young people to destroy themselves with this absolutely self destructive, deseases ridden, pukey stuff?
A homosexual is not defined by who they are, but by what they do, and it’s ugly.


23 posted on 11/11/2009 6:45:06 AM PST by WestwardHo (Whom the god would destroy, they first drive mad.)
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To: Graybeard58
Ya think this had church approval before the city council voted on it?

Definitely. Otherwise, some of those city council members would have been way out on a limb minus protection they were seeking from church sanction.

There's many grassroots Mormons who are upset -- or who'll be upon learning -- about this. Like this one woman the Salt Lake Trib quoted this morning:

...Jessica Rodrigues argued homosexuality is akin to pornography and said residents should have the right not to associate with gay people. "It is a moral wrong to pass this ordinance," she said, "It is awful that you get the support of the LDS Church on this."

Source: Salt Lake Trib, "Salt Lake City adopts pro-gay statutes -- with LDS Church support," Nov. 11, 2009 http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13758070

24 posted on 11/11/2009 6:59:24 AM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: colorcountry

It’s a good thing that most intelligent conservatives disagree with you. If I do not want to rent to someone who makes bad lifestyle choices that is my right and NO ONE will make me do otherwise. This has nothing to do with race or ethnicity, which is something a person cannot help. Being gay is a choice and is no better than being an alcholic or drug addict, and I will not rent to them.


25 posted on 11/11/2009 7:01:47 AM PST by ohioman
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To: Colofornian

So if you own a business or property then I guess you have no right to decide who is associated with your business or property based upon their open expression of homosexual sexual views and associated behavior? This type of legislation is anti-freedom and will be used to create lawsuits whereas any business owners will feel as if they will have to give preferential treatment to those who openly profess their homosexual behavior in the workplace or be brought to court. It is sad that so many in our country do not see the issues as they really are.

There is no reason to protect expressions in public of homosexual behavior.


26 posted on 11/11/2009 7:03:40 AM PST by TheBigIf
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To: stephenjohnbanker

It is disgusting that the Mormon Church gave into gay thugs. Gays must be taking a cue from SEIU on how to harrass people or else they are members.


27 posted on 11/11/2009 7:05:05 AM PST by PhiKapMom (Mary Fallin - OK Gov/Coburn - Senate 2010 ! Take Back the House/Senate! Stop ZERO!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Sickening thought isn’t it?


28 posted on 11/11/2009 7:07:57 AM PST by PhiKapMom (Mary Fallin - OK Gov/Coburn - Senate 2010 ! Take Back the House/Senate! Stop ZERO!)
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To: TheBigIf
There is no reason to protect expressions in public of homosexual behavior.

Yes. And unfortunately, none of this ever is limited to homosexual behavior. These ordinances are usually based upon vague "sexual orientation" language. So, imagine being a business owner or workplace manager. Now sit down & write a long list of various "sexual orientations" -- and all of these so-called "what-they-do-in-the-privacy-of-their-own-homes" can be imposed into very public business. (For example, an exhibitionist could be deemed a "sexual orientation"...as public clothing codes start going by the wayside, good luck trying to pre-empt that "sexual orientation" in your place of work. Every "sexual orientation" under the sun becomes a protected class status)

29 posted on 11/11/2009 7:15:57 AM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: Colofornian

The Mormon Church issued this message about 10 years ago and to my knowledge is still in effect:

“People inquire about our position on those who consider themselves so-called gays and lesbians...and who have certain inclinations which are powerful and which may be difficult to control. Most people have inclinations of one kind or another at various times. If they do not act upon these inclinations, then they can go forward as do all other members of the Church. If they violate the law of chastity and the moral standards of the Church, then they are subject to the discipline of the Church, just as others are”...”We want to help these people, to strengthen them, to assist them with their problems and to help them with their difficulties. But we cannot stand idle if they indulge in immoral activity, if they try to uphold and defend and live in a so-called same-sex marriage situation. To permit such would be to make light of the very serious and sacred foundation of God-sanctioned marriage and its very purpose, the rearing of families”
My understanding is:
Members of the church are encouraged to treat each other with love and respect, Being a homosexual is not a sin, engaging in homosexual activity is a sin because you are breaking the law of chastity, This law applies to ALL Single members of the church and not just homosexuals.Single members must remain celebate outside of marriage.
Homosexual activity is sin that probably would keep a member from having a calling and taking sacrament on Sunday but unless the member is unrepentent would not lead to excommunication.


30 posted on 11/11/2009 7:25:12 AM PST by ODDITHER (HAT)
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To: Colofornian
Salt Lake City has become the first Utah city to offer housing and employment protections for gays and lesbians — an action supported by the Mormon Church.

How?

Can any of the Mormon's on FR offer an explanation that justifies this?

31 posted on 11/11/2009 7:32:08 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Graybeard58; colorcountry

Sometimes the header leading to the article is different than that actual title of the article.

Happens on FOXNEWS.com all the time.


32 posted on 11/11/2009 7:34:20 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Admin Moderator; Colofornian; Domandred

>>”That’s because I changed it for you, just like I did yesterday.”<<

Good work, Mod! Thank you for keeping a sharp eye on his/her posts! Colofornian seems to have one purpose in life and that is to attack the LDS at every opportunity.

One has to question the reason for this. The Mormon-haters here have quickly forgotten the good that the Mormon church did (with the help of the Catholics) in defeating Prop. 8.


33 posted on 11/11/2009 7:34:42 AM PST by panaxanax (It's time to start plucking the chickens and boiling the tar.)
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To: WestwardHo

I’m so sorry to hear about that situation you’re in.

I’ll be praying for you.


34 posted on 11/11/2009 7:36:17 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: ODDITHER; All
Members of the church are encouraged to treat each other with love and respect, Being a homosexual is not a sin, engaging in homosexual activity is a sin because you are breaking the law of chastity, This law applies to ALL Single members of the church and not just homosexuals.Single members must remain celebate outside of marriage.

OK, this looks presentable on paper (making a proper distinction between "orientation" and "behavior")...but let's extend the application here. Again, many of these city ordinances don't even try to define "sexual orientation."

So, imagine somebody applying at a child care agency or school or Lds seminary or Boy Scout group, saying that they have a "sexual orientation" toward children but they've never acted on it. No criminal record. No crimes have occurred. They say they're "clean" behaviorally.

So, you're just suppose to conclude as either a church administrator or somebody considering hiring such a person that their "sexual orientation" is irrelevant to everything because, after all, they haven't (to cite your Mormon message citation) "act[ed] upon these inclinations"??? Really???

Would YOU let such a person become a Cub Scout or Boy Scout leader?

What we fail to understand is that no matter how compassionate and accepting we want to be to the homosexual community, their public policy goals always seek to define morality for all. They impose their will upon others -- effectively telling them that people can no longer make any distinctions on sexual morality other than what is legal or illegal...and that changes according to how hard a given "sexual minority" lobbies lawmakers and accomplishes end runs thru the courts.

If you want your morality to be defined by the slogan "whatever is legal is moral," go for it. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord and exercise His morality.

35 posted on 11/11/2009 7:43:31 AM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: Colofornian

I agree that this is about more than gay rights but is more about sexuality rights in general. I believe that eventually the agenda will move more towards attacking our right to legislate the age of consent. We already see left-wing activist groups who have no respect for age of consent legislation already. Homosexual activist groups are targeting the schools, Planned Parenthood has been caught multiple times ignoring age of consent legislation as well.

One argument that the left loves to use in regards to gay marriage is “how is hurting you if gays marry?” Of course there are many types of sexual expression that do not directly hurt you but are still morally wrong and dangerous to society. If someone exposes themselves to you in public they are not causing you any direct physical harm. It is only your morality that makes it offensive to you. The left-wing does not accept the morality of a majority as being just cause for legislation though so their agenda will lead to the things you claim if left unchallenged.

This news story is sad because it obvious that the Mormon church does not understand the issue.


36 posted on 11/11/2009 8:01:43 AM PST by TheBigIf
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To: metmom

Nope. I’m in disagreement.

For rentals imo it’s up to the landlord to make that decision under his property rights.

For employment I follow the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. I think it works quite well. My problem is that gays and lesbians want to be all out and in everyone’s face about it.

Only place I don’t have a problem is if the gay/lesbian is looking to purchase their own house. I think that how much money they have and credit worthiness should be the deciding factor on housing purchases.

Offering protections is one step closer to allowing gay/lesbian marriage. It also opens the door for frivolous “I was fired because I was gay” or “I was kicked out because I was gay” lawsuits when the person actually was a bad employee and didn’t pay their rent.


37 posted on 11/11/2009 8:04:43 AM PST by Domandred (Fdisk, format, and reinstall the entire .gov system. I am Jim Thompson.)
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To: metmom

Thank you for your kind thoughts. My trust and confidence is in All Sovereign, Providencial God, Ruler over all.

We have forgotten that rules, laws, shame, consequences are there for our protection!
Divorce is a good example. When marriage was held in honor, and divorce was a shameful thing, abortion was not common and children were safe.
Unwed mothers were an embarrasment and shamed. That was a major restraint on promiscuity.
These helped keep babies, children and women safe and respected.
Perfect world, of course not? But look where lawlessness is taking us. The law is there to restrain people who will not restrain themselves, and that is for their good.


38 posted on 11/11/2009 8:12:21 AM PST by WestwardHo (Whom the god would destroy, they first drive mad.)
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To: Admin Moderator

Interesting headline:
Mormon church supports Salt Lake City’s protections for gay rights


39 posted on 11/11/2009 8:25:09 AM PST by svcw (The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves. GW)
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To: Colofornian

At its root and foundation the mormon church is not conservative.

Proof? See my tagline for the proof.

P.S. I know you agree, I’m just writing it “for the record”.


40 posted on 11/11/2009 8:42:16 AM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Domandred

When the gay rights first started being vocal, their attitude was that what went on in the privacy of their own bedroom was nobody else’s business. And I concur.

However, they’ve gone from that to shoving it in everybody else’s face and making their private business EVERYBODY else’s business and that’s where it has to stop.

If it’s nobody’s business, then SHUT UP about it!!!!

If they didn’t make an issue about it, they wouldn’t be in a position of being *discriminated* against because of it because nobody would know or know for sure; it would be sheer speculation.

THEY’RE the ones who’ve made this the hot button issue it is today, and are looking for special rights and privileges to force up to accept it as normal.

No.

They have all the protection under the law that any other citizen in this country has. They don’t need special rights and protections.


41 posted on 11/11/2009 9:04:23 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: WestwardHo
 
We all love him as we always have, but he is beyond our reach.
 



 

Genesis 13:13       Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and
their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed,
all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight?
Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends.
Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psalms 12:8      The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Ain't this just FABULOUS??      More?

Isaiah 3:9   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b  Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.


 

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.



2 Peter 2

 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 4.  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,  putting them into gloomy dungeons  to be held for judgment;
 5.  if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
 6.  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
 7.  and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
 8.  (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
 9.  if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
 10.  This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature  and despise authority.   Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
 11.  yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
 12.  But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
 13.  They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.
Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.



 

But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
     Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 


If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape.....



42 posted on 11/11/2009 10:57:28 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: WestwardHo
What on earth is wrong with a society that encourages young people to destroy themselves with this absolutely self destructive, deseases ridden, pukey stuff?

SIN!

43 posted on 11/11/2009 10:58:45 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ODDITHER
Single members must remain celebate outside of marriage.

What is your church doing to help the male to stay true?
 




prophet kimball"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982


spencer kimball"Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality...."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pages 77-79, 81-82

"Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, [unwed] pregnancy, and abortions - all ugly sins - but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Almost like twins, 'petting' and fornication are alike."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65


spencer kimball"Also far-reaching is the effect of the loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
-
Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 196


"And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Genesis 4:9-14.) That was true of murder. It is also true of illicit sex, which, of course, includes all petting, fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and all other perversions. The Lord may say to offenders, as He did to Cain, "What hast thou done?" The children thus conceived make damning charges against you; the companions who have been frustrated and violated condemn you; the body that has been defiled cries out against you; the spirit which has been dwarfed convicts you. You will have difficulty throughout the ages in totally forgiving yourself."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965. Often-used quote still used today in LDS seminary classes.


kimball"I do not find in the Bible the modern terms "petting" nor "homosexuality," yet I found numerous scriptures which forbade such acts under by whatever names they might be called. I could not find the term "homosexuality," but I did find numerous places where the Lord condemned such a practice with such vigor that even the death penalty was assessed."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965


"If adultery or fornication justified the death penalty in the old days, and still in Christ's day, is the sin any less today because the laws of the land do not assess the death penalty for it? Is the act less grievous? There must be a washing, a purging, a changing of attitudes, a correcting of appraisals, a strengthening toward self-mastery. There must be many prayers, and volumes of tears. There must be an inner conviction giving to the sin its full diabolical weight. There must be increased devotion and much thought and study. And this takes energy and time and often is accompanied with sore embarrassment, heavy deprivations and deep trials, even if indeed one is not excommunicated from the Church, losing all spiritual blessings."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Page 155


"How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries -- indiscretions like sex thoughts sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference Address, April 1, 1967.



44 posted on 11/11/2009 11:02:04 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: panaxanax
Colofornian seems to have one purpose in life and that is to attack the LDS at every opportunity.

Wrong!

Colofornian seems to have one purpose in life and that is to REPORT the LDS' ACTIONS at every opportunity.

45 posted on 11/11/2009 11:03:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
 
If you want your morality to be defined by the slogan "whatever is legal is moral," go for it.
 
Too late!
 
They're already there!!




"Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President




Sorry GOD; about NOT following Your Words in D&C 132 - You know how it is...
46 posted on 11/11/2009 11:07:04 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: svcw
Mormon church supports Salt Lake City’s protections for gay rights
47 posted on 11/11/2009 11:08:12 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Dear Elsie,
I love the following article, over the years I have passed it on many times:
Ministering to Homosexuals in San Francisco
Charles A. McIlhenny
Extracted from Ordained Servant vol. 6, no. 1 (January 1997)


A mother tearfully confided in me as pastor that her son poignantly declared himself “gay.” She had always “known” that he was different. He didn’t play sports, he wasn’t vicious or brutal, he liked music and interior decorating, he had a slight swagger to his gait, he spoke with a faint hair-lisp, and always hung around Uncle Harry at family gatherings. His declaration, however, seemed to be the “coup de grace” on their relationship - his relationship to his mother. I momentarily reflected on her sobbing, and then replied that it seemed like she was grieving over the discovery that her son was a from another planet—a Martian! That his supposed “coming out”—his confessing a newly discovered faith-sex-condition—put him beyond the pale of her fundamentalist retrieval and that she’d better get used to him being an alien, i. e., gay!

The homosexual propaganda machine has been cranking out overtime, to an unbelieving secular media, convincing people that “gay” is equivalent to any other already legitimate genetic race-like group. And amazingly many naive Christians have been seduced by such propaganda.

News Flash, Madam! Your son is NOT a Martian. He’s a sinner that needs the grace of God—JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER SINNER.

When people ask me if we have any special counseling for homosexuals I say yes: the counsel of the Word of God, the counsel of the preaching of the Gospel, the counsel of God’s call of repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, the counsel of God’s corporate covenant community in worship. Contrary to the gimmicks of the world, you’d better believe we have something special.

Is the modern homosexual a special case with unique and complex psychoses which the primitive Scriptures never knew? Have we imbibed the pseudo-medical conclusion which places the 20th century homophile beyond the reach of the naive, hysterical dictates of the Word of God? Does the Word of God fail to recognize newly discovered genetic and biological factors to which, had they been known, would have made a difference in whether to condemn or accept homosexuals as just different? Does the Bible fail to appropriately distinguish between orientation and praxis? Does the Bible really condemn homosexuals or does it condemn heterosexuals acting contrary to their natures? Is it inversion or perversion which is forbidden by the Scriptures? The answer to all these questions is a resounding NO! Homosexuals have no place to hide from the scrutiny of God’s Law—no more than any other sinner who tries to invent excuses for his sin. That’s why the homosexual paradigm is so crucial for the church today. If this sin can be justified, then ANY sin can be excused; but the only justification recognized by the Word is that of sinners who repent and believe in the cross of Christ, instead of making excuses.

No, homosexuals are to be recieve no special method or message different from other sinners that need Jesus. If that were the case every sinner would have a special excuse for his peculiar type sin. The Bible is clear that sin, of whatever make and model, can only be forgiven by grace and overcome by the power of the gospel.

News flash! The opposite of a homosexual IS NOT a heterosexual. The idea that a homosexual is of another human kind is as foolish as saying the opposite of a paedophile is a heterosexual, or the opposite of an adulterer is a heterosexual. The true opposite of fornication is regeneration; the biblical opposite of paedophilia is justification; the cleansed opposite of homosexuality is sanctification. They ARE all heterosexuals! They haven’t stopped BEING heterosexuals. They have all broken God’s moral law. They all need to be converted -” to be washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.” [1 Cor. 6: 11]

In a sense every sinner is different in his sin but there is only ONE common faith-message: repent and believe the gospel. Paul told the Philippian jailer: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you and your household.” [Acts 16: 31] This was not tailor-made for Philippian government workers or European white/ male or Greek mid-life crises jailers with families. Paul would have said this to anyone no matter what his background or circumstance of sin would be.

Many of the homosexuality-plagued seekers think that they must be a special case. It’s supposedly too hard to give up this sin; ergo, maybe it’s not sin after all! These people must see that it is no more difficult to abandon this sin than any other sin. That this sin has the same cleansing promise as every other sin—no more and no less than the work of Christ.

Paul does say that, compared to other sins, sexual sin denigrates the human body; but he doesn’t give them a different message of the gospel, nor promise a separate healing. [1 Cor. 6: 18]

One size fits all.

As for the homosexual’s recovery the Apostle gives him the one common holy institution for all sinners: the divinely appointed redemptive agency of the Church of Jesus Christ. I say that as a pastor who knows from the Word of God that this is the covenant institution—the family of God—which best cares for sinners and saints. She cares for sinners in warning them to flee from the wrath to come forbidding them entrance into the Kingdom of God while unrepentant; and for saints, in that it provides the comfort of the gospel of the forgiveness of sins and protection against the enemy. This institution sets the overall context for counseling those struggling with homosexuality.

San Francisco culture has a uniqueness when it comes to ministering to homosexuals. In the first place, there is such a strong support system legally organized to reinforce homosexual way of life that part of the biblical therapy process many times demands fleeing this City altogether. There is such a bombardment of homosexuality—at every level of government, education, medical/health, scientific, media, entertainment and legislation—that in order to forsake wickedness as the Apostle exhorts, one must actually flee the City like Lot of old—not because of an impending brimstone shower but because the seduction is so wickedly powerful.

Every imaginable agency, institution, and ombudsman provides for the most perplexed and questioning homosexual and lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and transvestite, and transgenerational person. Even worse, virtually every mainline church—loosely defined—supports gay/ lesbian causes along with same-sex marital unions.

Just recently the San Francisco Human Rights Commission, along with the endorsement of the Mayor and the Board of Supervisors, hosted a televised hearing for “Gay, Lesbian, Bi, Transgender, and Questioning Youth Summit.” Over four hours of testimony was taken from self-proclaimed homosexual teens by these agencies in order to see if added legislation was necessary to support “our gay youth” in the City. New health & medical services were demanded, free condom distribution, free needle for exchanges, gay/lesbian counseling services at the junior high and high school level.

In ministering to the homosexual inquirer, we’ve found that he must cut off all relations with his old “community”; he must reconstitute by faith into the family of God. He needs a whole new set of spiritual brothers and sisters, moms and dads, found in the Church of Christ. He needs a remodeled family in which to pattern new life and conduct; a place where God’s man is a man and God’s woman is really woman; husbands acting like husbands and wives acting like wives. It’s not simply a matter of a “role model” reversal; it’s not replacing one “role” with another “role” as if play acting. A godly structured atmosphere is found only in the church of Jesus Christ that offers real hope and remedy for the enslaved sex addict.

In ministering to the homosexual inquirer not only must the Law of God be pressed upon the conscience but God’s one forgiveness in Christ alone must be also offered. Unless homosexuality be understood fundamentally as sin—transgression of God’s one and only moral Law—no further deliverance and recovery ought to be expected.

Here are fundamental givens based exclusively on the Word of God. Do NOT compromise on the biblical message of sin and grace. That is the repentant homosexual’s only hope. Do NOT compromise for the sake of winning the sympathetic hearing. His eternal security is in the uncompromised message of the Scriptures which every sinner needs.

He needs:

re-enforcement from the Word on what God says about homosexuality: grace, forgiveness and judgment,
regular monitored accountability meetings with the elders; one of the elders should covenant to pray for him daily, (part of that accountability is in regular weekly prayer and Bible study gatherings with the congregation at large),
reminding that the continual faith-struggle with temptation is part of the sanctification process—it’s when he stops struggling that he’s got problems,
reassurance that he’s not alone in this battle for victory; other members—every member—also struggles like he does,
to be careful about putting himself in temptation’s way,
to avoid being introduced to someone else who struggles with the same sexual sin—that’s too much temptation. Many of these Christians live alone and temptation in such cases is much more difficult to resist,
to know that in Christ he/ she is no longer a homosexual or lesbian just like converted murders and liars are no longer such despite temptations and feelings! “Such WERE some of you. . .” [1 Cor. 6: 11]
The Apostle Paul exhorts Timothy to “flee youthful lusts. . . with those calling upon the Lord. . .” [2 Tim. 2: 22] In other words, the exhortation to flee lust is ALONG WITH others struggling against sin in the context of the covenant community. The agency of the church has no hope for unrepentant homosexual only God’s sure wrath. The church has no authority from her Lord and Head to offer any hope apart from the grace of conversion; but for any repentant sinners, all the resources of the eternal God—“. . . my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.” [Phil 4: 19]

As pastor I have the sure “medicine” for sin and relief in the preaching of the gospel. The ultimate counseling session must be done in the corporate worship service not merely private sessions; the full extent of the divinely appointed-ordinances of the Lord are necessary to combat and destroy every high thing and thought exalted against the Lord. Families in the church must be made aware of their needed role in ministering to individuals struggling with sin. Yet at the same time a person’s sexual past is really nobody else’s business. A group gathering of like minded repentant homosexuals must not congregate to talk out their mutual trials. Such sessions subtly foster rather than battle temptations. The mixed—heterogeneous—congregation common ground for all is God’s safest sanctuary for biblical “group-therapy.”

Thank God there is this: the one size-fits-all gospel which alone guarantees to all sinners deliverance through our one common Savior, Jesus Christ. As I counsel struggling Christians, if the Christian faith does NOT save you from YOUR sin, then I’ll renounce the faith and join you. If it won’t work equally for you, it won’t work for me either. Whatever peculiar providences may have “caused” one’s moral adversity, unless he begins where Scripture begins, he will not end where Scripture promises—an end to sin.

November 13, 1996


The Rev. Dr. Charles A. McIlhenny is pastor of First Orthodox Presbyterian Church of San Francisco, California. For the past twenty years or so he has dared to boldly proclaim the truth of the Scriptures in America’s most infamous center for the gay and lesbian sub-culture. We would urge all our readers to get and read the book entitled When the Wicked Seize the City, by Rev. McIlhenny and his wife Donna.


48 posted on 11/11/2009 12:22:21 PM PST by WestwardHo (Whom the god would destroy, they first drive mad.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

The slippery slope of sexual deviancy in UT...

Homosexuality, polygamy...

Both condemned by God, equally....


49 posted on 11/11/2009 2:27:16 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Elsie; Colofornian

>>”Colofornian seems to have one purpose in life and that is to REPORT the LDS’ ACTIONS at every opportunity.”<<

As I thought.............a stalker!

!!....Look out Mormons, here comes ‘Colofornian’ and her spokesman/press secretary ‘Elsie’ to report on everything you do.

Has anyone ever suggested that you might want to expand your life a little? Hobbies, fishing, volunteering your time for a worthy cause, you know, something constructive?


50 posted on 11/11/2009 3:42:56 PM PST by panaxanax (It's time to start plucking the chickens and boiling the tar.)
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