Skip to comments.Mormon church supports Salt Lake City's protections for gay rights
Posted on 11/11/2009 6:01:17 AM PST by Colofornian
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When the gay rights first started being vocal, their attitude was that what went on in the privacy of their own bedroom was nobody else’s business. And I concur.
However, they’ve gone from that to shoving it in everybody else’s face and making their private business EVERYBODY else’s business and that’s where it has to stop.
If it’s nobody’s business, then SHUT UP about it!!!!
If they didn’t make an issue about it, they wouldn’t be in a position of being *discriminated* against because of it because nobody would know or know for sure; it would be sheer speculation.
THEY’RE the ones who’ve made this the hot button issue it is today, and are looking for special rights and privileges to force up to accept it as normal.
They have all the protection under the law that any other citizen in this country has. They don’t need special rights and protections.
Genesis 13:13 Nowthe men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and
4. Before they had gone to bed,
Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.
Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.
2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.
But there IS hope!!!
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape.....
"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982
"Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality...."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pages 77-79, 81-82
"Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, [unwed] pregnancy, and abortions - all ugly sins - but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Almost like twins, 'petting' and fornication are alike."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65
"Also far-reaching is the effect of the loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 196
"And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Genesis 4:9-14.) That was true of murder. It is also true of illicit sex, which, of course, includes all petting, fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and all other perversions. The Lord may say to offenders, as He did to Cain, "What hast thou done?" The children thus conceived make damning charges against you; the companions who have been frustrated and violated condemn you; the body that has been defiled cries out against you; the spirit which has been dwarfed convicts you. You will have difficulty throughout the ages in totally forgiving yourself."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965. Often-used quote still used today in LDS seminary classes.
"I do not find in the Bible the modern terms "petting" nor "homosexuality," yet I found numerous scriptures which forbade such acts under by whatever names they might be called. I could not find the term "homosexuality," but I did find numerous places where the Lord condemned such a practice with such vigor that even the death penalty was assessed."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965
"If adultery or fornication justified the death penalty in the old days, and still in Christ's day, is the sin any less today because the laws of the land do not assess the death penalty for it? Is the act less grievous? There must be a washing, a purging, a changing of attitudes, a correcting of appraisals, a strengthening toward self-mastery. There must be many prayers, and volumes of tears. There must be an inner conviction giving to the sin its full diabolical weight. There must be increased devotion and much thought and study. And this takes energy and time and often is accompanied with sore embarrassment, heavy deprivations and deep trials, even if indeed one is not excommunicated from the Church, losing all spiritual blessings."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Page 155
"How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries -- indiscretions like sex thoughts sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference Address, April 1, 1967.
Colofornian seems to have one purpose in life and that is to REPORT the LDS' ACTIONS at every opportunity.
"Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."
~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President
I love the following article, over the years I have passed it on many times:
Ministering to Homosexuals in San Francisco
Charles A. McIlhenny
Extracted from Ordained Servant vol. 6, no. 1 (January 1997)
A mother tearfully confided in me as pastor that her son poignantly declared himself gay. She had always known that he was different. He didnt play sports, he wasnt vicious or brutal, he liked music and interior decorating, he had a slight swagger to his gait, he spoke with a faint hair-lisp, and always hung around Uncle Harry at family gatherings. His declaration, however, seemed to be the coup de grace on their relationship - his relationship to his mother. I momentarily reflected on her sobbing, and then replied that it seemed like she was grieving over the discovery that her son was a from another planeta Martian! That his supposed coming outhis confessing a newly discovered faith-sex-conditionput him beyond the pale of her fundamentalist retrieval and that shed better get used to him being an alien, i. e., gay!
The homosexual propaganda machine has been cranking out overtime, to an unbelieving secular media, convincing people that gay is equivalent to any other already legitimate genetic race-like group. And amazingly many naive Christians have been seduced by such propaganda.
News Flash, Madam! Your son is NOT a Martian. Hes a sinner that needs the grace of GodJUST LIKE EVERY OTHER SINNER.
When people ask me if we have any special counseling for homosexuals I say yes: the counsel of the Word of God, the counsel of the preaching of the Gospel, the counsel of Gods call of repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, the counsel of Gods corporate covenant community in worship. Contrary to the gimmicks of the world, youd better believe we have something special.
Is the modern homosexual a special case with unique and complex psychoses which the primitive Scriptures never knew? Have we imbibed the pseudo-medical conclusion which places the 20th century homophile beyond the reach of the naive, hysterical dictates of the Word of God? Does the Word of God fail to recognize newly discovered genetic and biological factors to which, had they been known, would have made a difference in whether to condemn or accept homosexuals as just different? Does the Bible fail to appropriately distinguish between orientation and praxis? Does the Bible really condemn homosexuals or does it condemn heterosexuals acting contrary to their natures? Is it inversion or perversion which is forbidden by the Scriptures? The answer to all these questions is a resounding NO! Homosexuals have no place to hide from the scrutiny of Gods Lawno more than any other sinner who tries to invent excuses for his sin. Thats why the homosexual paradigm is so crucial for the church today. If this sin can be justified, then ANY sin can be excused; but the only justification recognized by the Word is that of sinners who repent and believe in the cross of Christ, instead of making excuses.
No, homosexuals are to be recieve no special method or message different from other sinners that need Jesus. If that were the case every sinner would have a special excuse for his peculiar type sin. The Bible is clear that sin, of whatever make and model, can only be forgiven by grace and overcome by the power of the gospel.
News flash! The opposite of a homosexual IS NOT a heterosexual. The idea that a homosexual is of another human kind is as foolish as saying the opposite of a paedophile is a heterosexual, or the opposite of an adulterer is a heterosexual. The true opposite of fornication is regeneration; the biblical opposite of paedophilia is justification; the cleansed opposite of homosexuality is sanctification. They ARE all heterosexuals! They havent stopped BEING heterosexuals. They have all broken Gods moral law. They all need to be converted - to be washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. [1 Cor. 6: 11]
In a sense every sinner is different in his sin but there is only ONE common faith-message: repent and believe the gospel. Paul told the Philippian jailer: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you and your household. [Acts 16: 31] This was not tailor-made for Philippian government workers or European white/ male or Greek mid-life crises jailers with families. Paul would have said this to anyone no matter what his background or circumstance of sin would be.
Many of the homosexuality-plagued seekers think that they must be a special case. Its supposedly too hard to give up this sin; ergo, maybe its not sin after all! These people must see that it is no more difficult to abandon this sin than any other sin. That this sin has the same cleansing promise as every other sinno more and no less than the work of Christ.
Paul does say that, compared to other sins, sexual sin denigrates the human body; but he doesnt give them a different message of the gospel, nor promise a separate healing. [1 Cor. 6: 18]
One size fits all.
As for the homosexuals recovery the Apostle gives him the one common holy institution for all sinners: the divinely appointed redemptive agency of the Church of Jesus Christ. I say that as a pastor who knows from the Word of God that this is the covenant institutionthe family of Godwhich best cares for sinners and saints. She cares for sinners in warning them to flee from the wrath to come forbidding them entrance into the Kingdom of God while unrepentant; and for saints, in that it provides the comfort of the gospel of the forgiveness of sins and protection against the enemy. This institution sets the overall context for counseling those struggling with homosexuality.
San Francisco culture has a uniqueness when it comes to ministering to homosexuals. In the first place, there is such a strong support system legally organized to reinforce homosexual way of life that part of the biblical therapy process many times demands fleeing this City altogether. There is such a bombardment of homosexualityat every level of government, education, medical/health, scientific, media, entertainment and legislationthat in order to forsake wickedness as the Apostle exhorts, one must actually flee the City like Lot of oldnot because of an impending brimstone shower but because the seduction is so wickedly powerful.
Every imaginable agency, institution, and ombudsman provides for the most perplexed and questioning homosexual and lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and transvestite, and transgenerational person. Even worse, virtually every mainline churchloosely definedsupports gay/ lesbian causes along with same-sex marital unions.
Just recently the San Francisco Human Rights Commission, along with the endorsement of the Mayor and the Board of Supervisors, hosted a televised hearing for Gay, Lesbian, Bi, Transgender, and Questioning Youth Summit. Over four hours of testimony was taken from self-proclaimed homosexual teens by these agencies in order to see if added legislation was necessary to support our gay youth in the City. New health & medical services were demanded, free condom distribution, free needle for exchanges, gay/lesbian counseling services at the junior high and high school level.
In ministering to the homosexual inquirer, weve found that he must cut off all relations with his old community; he must reconstitute by faith into the family of God. He needs a whole new set of spiritual brothers and sisters, moms and dads, found in the Church of Christ. He needs a remodeled family in which to pattern new life and conduct; a place where Gods man is a man and Gods woman is really woman; husbands acting like husbands and wives acting like wives. Its not simply a matter of a role model reversal; its not replacing one role with another role as if play acting. A godly structured atmosphere is found only in the church of Jesus Christ that offers real hope and remedy for the enslaved sex addict.
In ministering to the homosexual inquirer not only must the Law of God be pressed upon the conscience but Gods one forgiveness in Christ alone must be also offered. Unless homosexuality be understood fundamentally as sintransgression of Gods one and only moral Lawno further deliverance and recovery ought to be expected.
Here are fundamental givens based exclusively on the Word of God. Do NOT compromise on the biblical message of sin and grace. That is the repentant homosexuals only hope. Do NOT compromise for the sake of winning the sympathetic hearing. His eternal security is in the uncompromised message of the Scriptures which every sinner needs.
re-enforcement from the Word on what God says about homosexuality: grace, forgiveness and judgment,
regular monitored accountability meetings with the elders; one of the elders should covenant to pray for him daily, (part of that accountability is in regular weekly prayer and Bible study gatherings with the congregation at large),
reminding that the continual faith-struggle with temptation is part of the sanctification processits when he stops struggling that hes got problems,
reassurance that hes not alone in this battle for victory; other membersevery memberalso struggles like he does,
to be careful about putting himself in temptations way,
to avoid being introduced to someone else who struggles with the same sexual sinthats too much temptation. Many of these Christians live alone and temptation in such cases is much more difficult to resist,
to know that in Christ he/ she is no longer a homosexual or lesbian just like converted murders and liars are no longer such despite temptations and feelings! Such WERE some of you. . . [1 Cor. 6: 11]
The Apostle Paul exhorts Timothy to flee youthful lusts. . . with those calling upon the Lord. . . [2 Tim. 2: 22] In other words, the exhortation to flee lust is ALONG WITH others struggling against sin in the context of the covenant community. The agency of the church has no hope for unrepentant homosexual only Gods sure wrath. The church has no authority from her Lord and Head to offer any hope apart from the grace of conversion; but for any repentant sinners, all the resources of the eternal God. . . my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. [Phil 4: 19]
As pastor I have the sure medicine for sin and relief in the preaching of the gospel. The ultimate counseling session must be done in the corporate worship service not merely private sessions; the full extent of the divinely appointed-ordinances of the Lord are necessary to combat and destroy every high thing and thought exalted against the Lord. Families in the church must be made aware of their needed role in ministering to individuals struggling with sin. Yet at the same time a persons sexual past is really nobody elses business. A group gathering of like minded repentant homosexuals must not congregate to talk out their mutual trials. Such sessions subtly foster rather than battle temptations. The mixedheterogeneouscongregation common ground for all is Gods safest sanctuary for biblical group-therapy.
Thank God there is this: the one size-fits-all gospel which alone guarantees to all sinners deliverance through our one common Savior, Jesus Christ. As I counsel struggling Christians, if the Christian faith does NOT save you from YOUR sin, then Ill renounce the faith and join you. If it wont work equally for you, it wont work for me either. Whatever peculiar providences may have caused ones moral adversity, unless he begins where Scripture begins, he will not end where Scripture promisesan end to sin.
November 13, 1996
The Rev. Dr. Charles A. McIlhenny is pastor of First Orthodox Presbyterian Church of San Francisco, California. For the past twenty years or so he has dared to boldly proclaim the truth of the Scriptures in Americas most infamous center for the gay and lesbian sub-culture. We would urge all our readers to get and read the book entitled When the Wicked Seize the City, by Rev. McIlhenny and his wife Donna.
The slippery slope of sexual deviancy in UT...
Both condemned by God, equally....
>>”Colofornian seems to have one purpose in life and that is to REPORT the LDS’ ACTIONS at every opportunity.”<<
As I thought.............a stalker!
!!....Look out Mormons, here comes ‘Colofornian’ and her spokesman/press secretary ‘Elsie’ to report on everything you do.
Has anyone ever suggested that you might want to expand your life a little? Hobbies, fishing, volunteering your time for a worthy cause, you know, something constructive?
Do you go around to Lds missionaries & say, "Hey, why don't you use your weekly 'Preparation Day' to take up a hobby, go fishin', spend time on a worthy cause other than knockin' on doors that are up to 75% Christian & tellin' them they're apostates under the umbrella of 'the apostasy' & you're there to 'restore' them?"
(Would be nice if Lds got beyond the Muslim stage. Muslims go 'round callin' Christians 'infidels'; lds just publish billions of pages in their Pearl of Great Price & curricula labeling us all 'apostates' while ensuring that message gets UPS-like delivery via 60,000 missionaries)
Lame response. Try again.
You know the Lord sends posters like you over my way 'cause I know I always need to keep learnin'. So, lesson of the day is: "C, if you really got to know Panaxanax you'd see why the Lord loves him so much."
(I say that w/no facetiousness...'cause obviously none of us know each other too in-depth)
So, I'm always open to learnin' new lessons. Feel free to "teach away." Your barbed comments will be read by me. I don't have thin skin. (And I know I'm not going to reach godhood status)
I'd just think you'd might help your lessons a tad 'tis were the source a bit more consistent himself on those same lessons. I mean, here you are, seemin'ly preachin' & teachin' that I lighten up or be more tolerant or whatever, yet didn't you just say last Saturday on a FReeper thread? "EVERY Muslim in our military should be thrown out immediately. No exceptions." ??? [Post #33, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2380976/posts]
Now I didn't take you out of context 'cause that was the only line of that post. Do you really believe that? I mean, I'd like to be fair & give you a chance to 'xplain. But if you do really believe that, you've dismounted any high horse you may claim to be saddlin' up upon. Might just be good if you catch the next wagon train headin' West...just be careful passin' thru Dixie parts West of St. George/Cedar City area, ya hear now?
Yes, I did say the Muslims in the military should be thrown out.....and I stand by that statement 100%. I question those that don't share the same sentiment, given the recent terrorist event at Ft. Hood.
I have zero tolerance for gays or for those that threaten to kill us “infidels” because we don't believe in the same religion as they do. Your attacks on Mormons seems to be running parallel to that same Muslim philosophy that those who do not believe should be silenced via beheading. Are you Muslim?
I'm not preachin’ and teachin’ as you claim. This may come as a big surprise to you, but I am not a practicing Mormon. I do defend their right to believe in what they choose, just as I would defend yours.
My question to you is why do you spend your entire day condemning their every move? It just seems odd to me (and others) that you have made it your life's work to denigrate this church?
The history of the church intrigues me, as all history does. My family came from England with the Mormon converts in the mid 1840’s and suffered severe abuse from people like you only because they didn't share your religious beliefs.
My gr. gr. grandfather left his family behind to serve his newly adopted country in a time of war at the request of the U.S. President. He served after having a bounty placed on their heads by the Missouri governor. He served after having been burned out, killed and hung by supposed Christians in Nauvoo, IL.
Granted, the Mormon Battalion did not actually see action because the war ended before they had a chance. They, in fact, made the longest foot march to war in history. My grandfather gr.x2 walked 5000 miles on this trek to war and then back to Iowa to pick up his family before they migrated to SLC. Look it up, it's true. I am, and will forever be proud of having relatives that were a part in forging the settlement of the west.
Like it or not, the Mormons are here to stay and there is nothing you can do to change that, except move out of the state or get a lobotomy.
“...just be careful passin’ thru Dixie parts West of St. George/Cedar City area, ya hear now?”
Is that a threat or an invitation? Been there many times BTW.
You live in a beautiful part of this country. Get out and enjoy it and stop worrying what the Mormons are doing.
You don't need to respond to this post. I am bored beyond belief with your one trick pony act of hating Mormons.
Stay safe and healthy. Try to be happy in your remaining years.
I find myself here!
An actual PRESBYTERIAN wrote this??
You KNOW that they follow rules and regulations of MEN and not the BIBLE; don't you?
Our Glorious Leader And Founder said as much to his MOTHER!!
--MormonDude(He would not LIE to his own mother; would he?)
Yep, the Bible makes that clear:
KJV Matthew 13:24-31
24. Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25. But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28. He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29. But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
We manage quite well on our own.
Why does QUOTES from things we do and say seem to upset us MORMONs so much?
Are we not supposed to shout our good works from the rooftops?
--MormonDupe(or something like that...)