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Best ever find of soft tissue (muscle and blood) in a fossil (evos claim it is 18 mya!!!)
CMI ^ | November 11, 2009 | Carl Wieland

Posted on 11/11/2009 9:29:38 AM PST by GodGunsGuts

A salamander allegedly “18 million years old” is the latest fossil to produce astonishingly well preserved soft tissue. This time, it’s muscle tissue, and it is supposedly the most pristine example yet.

Background—the “dinosaur connection”...

(Excerpt) Read more at creation.com ...


TOPICS: Australia/New Zealand; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Georgia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: antiscienceevos; atomsdonotexist; catastrophism; catholic; charismatic; christian; christianmythology; creation; creationnescience; crevo; darwiniacs; dinosaurs; electricityisfire; evangelical; evolution; evoreligionexposed; godsgravesglyphs; gravityisahoax; intelligentdesign; judaism; maryschweitzer; paleontology; protestant; science; softtissue; superstition; templeofdarwin
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1 posted on 11/11/2009 9:29:42 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: metmom; DaveLoneRanger; editor-surveyor; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; MrB; GourmetDan; Fichori; ...

Happy Veteran’s Day!


2 posted on 11/11/2009 9:31:38 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Have they ever been able to get any DNA from something like this?


3 posted on 11/11/2009 9:32:40 AM PST by marron
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To: GodGunsGuts

Let me guess, you think the world is 4,000 years old and that people rode dinosuars to work?

The Flinstones were a cartoon... I know that is hard to beleive but it was only a cartoon based on the Honey Mooners... nothing more.

You can not get religion from cartoons. You can’t base your world reality on sketches of Bugs Bunny and Popeye.


4 posted on 11/11/2009 9:33:05 AM PST by Porterville ( I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubble gum)
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To: marron

Yes, there was a TREX the pulled DNA from a few years past.


5 posted on 11/11/2009 9:33:57 AM PST by Porterville ( I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubble gum)
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To: GodGunsGuts

“A salamander allegedly “18 million years old”

Wilma, what’s for dinner?


6 posted on 11/11/2009 9:34:19 AM PST by 1776 Reborn
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To: GodGunsGuts

Whatever happened to the intact cave person found in the ice a few years back.


7 posted on 11/11/2009 9:34:35 AM PST by edcoil (If I had 1 cent for every dollar the government saved, Bill Gates and I would be friends.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Means nothing, despite all the binky bawling and rattle-shaking.

Tiny outlyers don’t mean an ID — they just need more research. There is always a natural explanation.

These are so silly — but those who understand know better.

*pat* *pat* — but cute.


8 posted on 11/11/2009 9:34:41 AM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: marron

They found DNA in the dinos, but their still working to establish where the DNA came from.


9 posted on 11/11/2009 9:35:37 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for the ping!


10 posted on 11/11/2009 9:36:43 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: GodGunsGuts

From you linked article:

“very little degradation since it was originally FOSSILISED … making it the highest quality soft tissue preservation ever documented in the fossil record.” (my emphasis)


11 posted on 11/11/2009 9:38:23 AM PST by Natufian
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To: GodGunsGuts
"(evos claim it is 18 mya!!!)"

And you claim it's 6,550 years old? Proving that should be easy, it should still contain lots of radioactive carbon (the half-life around 5,700 years).

12 posted on 11/11/2009 9:42:20 AM PST by Behemoth the Cat
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To: GodGunsGuts

So, how many times are you going to post the same story from different sources?


13 posted on 11/11/2009 9:42:30 AM PST by tnlibertarian
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To: Behemoth the Cat

Sorry, I meant 5,550 years old, of course.


14 posted on 11/11/2009 9:43:03 AM PST by Behemoth the Cat
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To: Porterville

Have you been to this website before? I would venture to guess that 99% of Freepers are creationists.


15 posted on 11/11/2009 9:43:11 AM PST by gun_supporter
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To: Porterville

Yeah cause we humans would simply cease to exist if any man-eaters still roamed the planet. Wait what no - doohhhh!!!

“People who pride themselves on their “complexity” and deride
others for being “simplistic” should realize that the truth is
often not very complicated. What gets complex is evading the truth.”
-Thomas Sowell


16 posted on 11/11/2009 9:45:25 AM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: tnlibertarian

I don’t see you complaining about people posting multiple stories on the same subject when it comes global warming, the fall of the Berlin Wall, etc, etc. I will keep posting these stories as often as they come up, as they all approach the subject from a slightly different angle, and new details are coming out all the time. Could it be you are afraid for FReepers to learn the truth of the sad state of Darwin’s evo-atheist creation myth?


17 posted on 11/11/2009 9:45:36 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

15 posts and no Helen Thomas pics yet?!?


18 posted on 11/11/2009 9:45:47 AM PST by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

AND you have previously posted this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2382217/posts?page=1

I guess you need something to do while the grown-ups are busy at work.

For me, lunch time is over.


19 posted on 11/11/2009 9:46:13 AM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: MortMan

Be my guest :o)


20 posted on 11/11/2009 9:46:45 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: freedumb2003

Well then please tell us your natural explanation for where life came from? Did it really all happen by chance?! /s


21 posted on 11/11/2009 9:47:21 AM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels

>>Well then please tell us your natural explanation for where life came from? Did it really all happen by chance?! /s<<

LOL


22 posted on 11/11/2009 9:48:21 AM PST by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: GodGunsGuts; All

Nothing really to see here folks; unless watching a guy lie repeatedly is of interest.

Read the orignal article:

http://www.physorg.com/news176660912.html

rather than the mendacious propaganda posted by GGG and you´ll see that the scientists found extraordinarily well preserved, *fossilized* soft tissue elements of the Salamander rather than the more commonly found bone or dental elements.


23 posted on 11/11/2009 9:48:26 AM PST by Natufian
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To: GodGunsGuts
Whenever I want unbiased stories
about Science I always go to the
Creation Ministries Institute.


24 posted on 11/11/2009 9:50:06 AM PST by DoctorMichael (Creationists: The crazy Aunts and Uncles of Conservatism.)
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To: gun_supporter

“Have you been to this website before? I would venture to guess that 99% of Freepers are creationists.”

No way!


25 posted on 11/11/2009 9:53:35 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: GodGunsGuts; Porterville

Thanks...

How cool.


26 posted on 11/11/2009 9:54:59 AM PST by marron
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To: freedumb2003; GodGunsGuts
"AND you have previously posted this:"

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”. - Albert Einstein.

Maybe GGG doesn't think he will get his ass handed to him again.....LOL

27 posted on 11/11/2009 9:55:39 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: GodGunsGuts

It’s not a different story on the same subject. It’s the same silly salamander story. (note the alliteration) Did I say anything about your penguin story? Apparently you simply weren’t satisfied with the response from the first one, so you posted it again from a different “source”. As far as exposing freepers to your posts, I’m a fan of the Friday Silliness threads, so why not yours? I was just hoping for some originality instead of clogging up the site with re-posts.


28 posted on 11/11/2009 9:56:23 AM PST by tnlibertarian
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To: gun_supporter
I would venture to guess that 99% of Freepers are creationists.

I am a creationist. God created the heavens and the Earth. But I do not believe that it was only six thousand, or sixty thousand, or six hundred thousand years ago.

A day with God is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day (at the time that was written most folks had no concept of millions, let alone billions). What is a few billions of years to The Eternal?

When we finally meet Him, He'll clarify it all for us. What is important right now is that we accept the sacrifice of His only begotten Son as our salvation.

29 posted on 11/11/2009 9:56:27 AM PST by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., hot enough down there today?" TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: Natufian
Wrong again, Natufian. The authors of the paper say that the "the muscle tissue is organically preserved in three dimensions, with circulatory vessels infilled with blood."

Or how about this from Schweitzer re: T. rex:

“ In modern bone, removing the minerals leaves supple, soft organic materials that are much easier to work with in a lab. In contrast, fossilized bone is believed to be completely mineralized, meaning no organics are present. Attempting to dissolve the minerals from a piece of fossilized bone, so the theory goes, would merely dissolve the entire fossil. But the team was surprised by what actually happened when they removed the minerals from the T. rex femur fragment. The removal process left behind stretchy bone matrix material that, when examined microscopically, seemed to show blood vessels, osteocytes, or bone building cells, and other recognizable organic features.”

30 posted on 11/11/2009 9:59:23 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: gun_supporter

Hah!

Wishful thinking on your part.


31 posted on 11/11/2009 10:01:13 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: BrandtMichaels
Well then please tell us your natural explanation for where life came from? Did it really all happen by chance?

The real question. When God created Man, did he cross his arms and blink (Jeannie style) or wiggle his nose (Samantha style).

32 posted on 11/11/2009 10:01:54 AM PST by Doe Eyes
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To: marron

You might also be interested in reply #30. All the best—GGG


33 posted on 11/11/2009 10:02:02 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: tnlibertarian

Also see #30...that should really make you mad, as I keep posting it over and over and over to incredulous evos.


34 posted on 11/11/2009 10:03:10 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

I'll let HT verify it.............

35 posted on 11/11/2009 10:03:28 AM PST by Red Badger (If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.)
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To: Red Badger

It was only a matter of time ;o)


36 posted on 11/11/2009 10:04:39 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: edcoil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi_the_Iceman


37 posted on 11/11/2009 10:04:58 AM PST by Red Badger (If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Don't hold your breath GGG, Darwinists are anti-creation not pro-science. Evidence means nothing to them in the slightest, especially if it shows that creationists line of thinking appears to be more accurate. They would much rather play dating guessing games then face the reality of scientific evidence that God may have actually created the universe.

If all these soft tissue findings hold up, then there is no more evidence needed to show that the current dating techniques are a complete joke and all of Evolution must be brought into question and removed from its pedestal in science.
38 posted on 11/11/2009 10:07:55 AM PST by Jaime2099 (Human Evolution and the God of the Bible are not compatible)
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To: Jaime2099

EXCELLENT POINT, JAIME!


39 posted on 11/11/2009 10:09:32 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

“Wrong again, Natufian. The authors of the paper say that the “the muscle tissue is organically preserved in three dimensions, with circulatory vessels infilled with blood.””

Oh, come off it. Your wilful misrepresentations would be irritating if they weren´t so laughable. I´m sure that you´re aware that lying to further the cause is only valid in Islam.

Here is an abstract from the actual paper presented by the scientists who did this research on the fossolized salamander:

“The very labile (decay-prone), non-biomineralized, tissues of organisms are rarely fossilized. Occurrences thereof are invaluable supplements to a body fossil record dominated by biomineralized tissues, which alone are extremely unrepresentative of diversity in modern and ancient ecosystems. Fossil examples of extremely labile tissues (e.g. muscle) that exhibit a high degree of morphological fidelity are almost invariably replicated by inorganic compounds such as calcium phosphate. There is no consensus as to whether such tissues can be preserved with similar morphological fidelity as organic remains, except when enclosed inside amber. Here, we report fossilized musculature from an approximately 18 Myr old salamander from lacustrine sediments of Ribesalbes, Spain. The muscle is preserved organically, in three dimensions, and with the highest fidelity of morphological preservation yet documented from the fossil record. Preserved ultrastructural details include myofilaments, endomysium, layering within the sarcolemma, and endomysial circulatory vessels infilled with blood. Slight differences between the fossil tissues and their counterparts in extant amphibians reflect limited degradation during fossilization. Our results provide unequivocal evidence that high-fidelity organic preservation of extremely labile tissues is not only feasible, but likely to be common. This is supported by the discovery of similarly preserved tissues in the Eocene Grube Messel biota.”

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2009/10/09/rspb.2009.1378.abstract


40 posted on 11/11/2009 10:15:54 AM PST by Natufian
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To: Porterville

Now that theme song will be in my head all afternoon.

Yabba Dabba Doo!


41 posted on 11/11/2009 10:19:05 AM PST by cvq3842 (A fool and his liberty are soon parted.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

You don’t make me mad. You amuse me. That is why I hope for new articles instead of retreads. I’m not a fan of sit-com reruns.


42 posted on 11/11/2009 10:22:00 AM PST by tnlibertarian
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To: GodGunsGuts

In case the length or the big words in the abstract from my previous post causes you problems, the operative sentence is as follows:

“Here, we report fossilized musculature from an approximately 18 Myr old salamander...”

Lying, even if it is spread your version of the Word, won´t endear you to God.


43 posted on 11/11/2009 10:28:50 AM PST by Natufian
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To: Natufian
You are just as clueless as ever, I see. What do you think they mean by "organic preservation", Natufian? Perhaps the following will help you understand what organic preservation actually means:

"Bone marrow in ca. 10 Ma frogs and salamanders from the Miocene of Libros, Spain, represents the first fossilized example of this extremely decay-prone tissue. The bone marrow, preserved in three dimensions as an organic residue, retains the original texture and red and yellow color of hematopoietic and fatty marrow, respectively; moldic osteoclasts and vascular structures are also present."

http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/34/8/641.abstract

44 posted on 11/11/2009 10:30:15 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Natufian

See my last. You have got your head deeply buried in the sand as per usual.


45 posted on 11/11/2009 10:31:50 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: tnlibertarian
Yes, I do. Otherwise you wouldn't be here trying to dissuade me from posting more than one story about the young earth implications of dino or otherwise supposedly “ancient” soft tissue.
46 posted on 11/11/2009 10:35:24 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

“the first fossilized example of this extremely decay-prone tissue. “

“fossilized” Seems pretty clear from your own example.


47 posted on 11/11/2009 10:37:30 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

You need to be careful about what they are calling fossils these days. For instance, take a look at the following description of a T rex. “fossil”:

“ In modern bone, removing the minerals leaves supple, soft organic materials that are much easier to work with in a lab. In contrast, fossilized bone is believed to be completely mineralized, meaning no organics are present. Attempting to dissolve the minerals from a piece of fossilized bone, so the theory goes, would merely dissolve the entire fossil. But the team was surprised by what actually happened when they removed the minerals from the T. rex femur fragment. The removal process left behind stretchy bone matrix material that, when examined microscopically, seemed to show blood vessels, osteocytes, or bone building cells, and other recognizable organic features.”


48 posted on 11/11/2009 10:42:21 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Yeah, you’re right. You are starting to irk me. But your threads are usually good for a laugh or two.


49 posted on 11/11/2009 10:50:09 AM PST by tnlibertarian
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To: GodGunsGuts
Peer reviewed, scientific studies are on the way explaining how this salamander flesh is, really is millions of years old for the reasons of..of...well the reasons will be worked out later, contamination, error, something, anything, everything, nothing.

“But it’s your dinosaur, Jack”, she said.

50 posted on 11/11/2009 11:02:09 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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