Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Fort Hood tragedy latest in 40-year string of U.S. mass shootings
Examiner.com ^ | Monday, November 9, 2009 | Rebecca Heath

Posted on 11/11/2009 10:40:24 AM PST by Star Traveler

Fort Hood tragedy latest in 40-year string of U.S. mass shootings

November 9, 11:33 PM
by Rebecca Heath

When Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan went on his murderous rampage killing 13 and wounding 30 others Thursday at Fort Hood, Texas, he became the latest perpetrator of a uniquely American phenomenon of mass public shootings.

One day later, alleged gunman Jason Rodriquez, walked into the Orlando FL., engineering firm where he had been terminated two years before. He left one person dead and 5 injured.

These latest U.S. shooting sprees add to this year's deadly toll of workplace violence. Although the anecdotal evidence seems to belie the figures, homicides in the workplace are actually down slightly overall, despite the recession. There were 517 workplace homicides in 2008 and that was the lowest level since the Labor Department began tracking this 16 years ago.

Law enforcement now must sort out the details and in Texas army officials go about the huge task of comforting more than 600 people affected by this one horrible act. A memorial service is scheduled for Tuesday and public donations are being accepted to help victim's families (Fort Hood website)

In the both cases, as investigators examine the aftermath motivations are still a mystery. When Rodriquez was taken into custody he was asked point blank by a reporter "why?"  "They left me to rot," said Rodriguez, who had recently declared bankruptcy.

Hasan had been allegedly trying to get out of the military since 2001. He has told his family that he had been taunted for his Middle Eastern ancestry since the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Hasan's relatives have issued statements saying they were shocked and mortified by the shootings. "… there is no justification, whatsoever, for what happened. We are all asking why this happened -- and the answer is that we simply do not know."

The modern era of mass shootings started in 1966 in Texas when Charles Whitman opened fire from the top of a 27-story tower at the University of Texas in Austin , killing 14 people and wounding 40.

Since then more than 105 Americans have gone on killing rampages.

In the just one month of this year more than 53 people were murdered in high-profile shootings: On March 10, Michael McLendon killed 10 people before committing suicide in southern Alabama. Police say he had struggled to hold down a job and targeted employers and co-workers.

On April 3rd, Jiverly Wong, a 41 year old immigrant from Vietnam walked into an immigrant language center, killed 13 and wounded 20 before killing himself. He told family members he had been harassed for his poor English. He dropped out of language classes at the American Civic Association. It was to his former classroom that he returned with two handguns, wearing body armor to terrorize the people who had tried to help him.

At the time, an acquaintance of Wong described him as "a very nice guy, but he seemed very, very depressed." Wong's wife and kids had left him and he told this friend, 'I did everything good for everybody, but nobody ever did anything good for me.'"

What is it that causes someone to make this ultimate act of hate and retribution. To become completely devoid of compassion and empathy, to take the lives of other people's sons, daughters, mothers and fathers? Is there something about our society that drives people to do things like this?

In the wake of the Fort Hood massacre, US media pundits and politicians will again follow the expected sequence of events, offering theories and examining consequences. Expressions of sympathy and outrage for the victims will precede inquiries and promises that changes will be made. But will they?

It's been 10 years since the Columbine High School killers left 15 dead, and two years since the Virginia Tech shooter murdered 32. What more do we know today than we did then?

Here's one fact:

One of the only other countries that has had a similar violence problem has been Australia which saw a string of mass shootings in the 1980s and 1990s. Finally, in 1996, armed with a semiautomatic rifle, Martin Bryant shot and killed 35 people at a Tasmanian historical site. Australian lawmakers reacted with tough gun control legislation banning semiautomatic rifles. The result? No mass shootings since the ban.

A base spokesman said one of the reasons Hasan's actions were so deadly was that he fired at least 100 rounds in a small space. He was armed with two pistols, one a semiautomatic FN-Five Seven tactical pistol capable of firing up to 20 rounds without reloading.

As officials untangle the reasons for Thursdays carnage, attention is focusing on the psychological consequences of a drawn out war. Fort Hood statistics show that base personnel are under increasing stress and reportedly are not getting the mental health resources they need. There have been 76 suicides since 2003 and domestic violence has risen by 75 percent since 2001.

And this is not the only recent shooting at Fort Hood. Last year upon returning from Iraq, Staff Sgt. Gilberto Mota, 35, shot his his wife and himself. In September, Spc. Jody Michael Wirawan, 22, shot and killed 1st Lt. Robert Bartlett Fletcher, 24, at a party. Both had just returned from the war.

An ironic footnote: Killeen, Texas, the nearest town, to Fort Hood.,was scene of one of the deadliest shooting mass murders in American history. On October 16, 1991, George Hennard drove his Ford Ranger pickup truck through the front window of Luby's Cafeteria and began shooting, killing 23 people and wounding 20. Before taking his own life Hennard yelled, "This is what Central Texas did to me!"


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: forthoodshooting; massshooting
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-94 next last

1 posted on 11/11/2009 10:40:28 AM PST by Star Traveler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
We've had the Orlando mass shooting and the Tualatin, Oregon (mass) public shooting, too, since Fort Hood...


Some US mass shootings...

Here is a glance at some of the worst U.S. mass shootings:

April 3, 2009: A 41-year-old man opened fire at an immigrant community center in Binghamton, N.Y., killing 11 immigrants and two workers. Jiverly Wong, a Vietnamese immigrant and a former student at the center, killed himself as police rushed to the scene.

March 10, 2009: Michael McLendon, 28, killed 10 people, including his mother, four other relatives and the wife and child of a local sheriff’s deputy, across two rural Alabama counties. He then committed suicide.

Feb. 14, 2008: Former student Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, fatally shooting five students and wounding 18 others before committing suicide.

Dec. 5, 2007: Robert A. Hawkins, 19, opened fire with a rifle in Omaha, Neb., at a Von Maur store in the Westroads Mall, killing eight people before taking his life. Five more people were wounded, two critically.

April 16, 2007: Cho Seung-Hui, 23, fatally shot 32 people in a dorm and a classroom at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, then killed himself in the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

Feb. 12, 2007: Sulejman Talovic, 18, killed five and wounded four at the Trolley Square mall in Salt Lake City. He was then shot and killed by police.

Oct. 2, 2006: Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, shot to death five girls at West Nickel Mines Amish School in Pennsylvania, then killed himself.

March 21, 2005: Jeffrey Weise, a 16-year-old student, killed nine people – his grandfather and his grandfather’s companion at home, and then five fellow students, a teacher and a security guard at Red Lake High School in Red Lake, Minn. – before killing himself. Seven students were wounded.

March 12, 2005: Terry Ratzmann, 44, gunned down members of his congregation as they worshipped at the Brookfield Sheraton in Brookfield, Wis., slaying seven and wounding four before killing himself.

July 29, 1999: Former day trader Mark Barton, 44, killed nine people in shootings at two Atlanta brokerage offices, then committed suicide.

April 20, 1999: Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, opened fire at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., killing 12 classmates and a teacher and wounding 26 others before committing suicide in the school’s library.

March 24, 1998: Andrew Golden, 11, and Mitchell Johnson, 13, killed four girls and a teacher at a Jonesboro, Ark., middle school. Ten others were wounded in the shooting.

December 1, 1997: Michael Carneal, 14, opened fire on a group of praying students killing 3 young women, injuring four young women, and wounding one young man at Heath High School in West Paducah, Kentucky.

Oct. 16, 1991: George Hennard, 35, smashed his pickup through a Luby’s Cafeteria window in Killeen, Texas, and fired on the lunchtime crowd with a high-powered pistol, killing 22 people. At least 20 others were wounded.

Aug. 20, 1986: Postal worker Patrick Henry Sherrill killed 14 people in an Edmond, Okla., post office, then killed himself.

July 18, 1984: James Oliver Huberty, 41, an out-of-work security guard, shot and killed 21 people at a McDonald’s restaurant in San Ysidro, Calif. He was slain by police.

Aug. 1, 1966: Former Marine sharpshooter Charles Whitman climbed the stairs to the observation deck at the University of Texas Tower and began a 96-minute shooting spree, killing 14 people and wounding 31 before he was shot and killed. He had stabbed his mother and wife to death earlier.

Mass shootings/killings have been part of our society for a long while now... On and on it goes...

2 posted on 11/11/2009 10:42:54 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

I blame the Guns for the shootings obviously they decided to hop out of the law abiding owner’s hands and start squeezing off rounds on their own.

Ban guns, save lives, of criminals....


3 posted on 11/11/2009 10:44:43 AM PST by GraceG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

Dear Rebecca Heath

You are a bran-dead moron.

_________________________________

...a uniquely American phenomenon of mass public shootings.

_________________________________

Unique? Well, maybe. As in we don’t blow ourselves up as is the common daily custom in Islam nations.

Why don’t you look into that, you liberal POS?


4 posted on 11/11/2009 10:44:45 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (I am Legend)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
2 dead, 2 hurt in Tualatin workplace shooting
5 posted on 11/11/2009 10:45:38 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
Damn, I totally forgot about the two killings this spring.
6 posted on 11/11/2009 10:47:13 AM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
Gunman apprehended after killing 1, injuring 5 others at Orlando office building [Orlando shooting]
7 posted on 11/11/2009 10:47:13 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

So, is this author saying that this is all the fault of Killeen? Garbage!


8 posted on 11/11/2009 10:47:44 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

“Although the anecdotal evidence seems to belie the figures”

By “anecdotal evidence” they mean MEDIA HYPE.


9 posted on 11/11/2009 10:50:51 AM PST by Tublecane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

You can’t forget the Cleveland School shooting in Stockton, California, where DiFi’s poster boy, Patrick Purdy, killed five elementary school students and wounded a dozen or so more. It led directly to the Assault Weapons Ban which we still live under out here in California.


10 posted on 11/11/2009 10:50:55 AM PST by DryFly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

Barf alert tag! Yeesh.

Yet another libtard solution of “Ban guns and there won’t be mass shootings”. How about banning murder? oh wait...


11 posted on 11/11/2009 10:51:09 AM PST by Domandred (Fdisk, format, and reinstall the entire .gov system. I am Jim Thompson.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

What most of those have in common is that at the time and location of the shootings, law-abiding citizens were prohibited by law from carrying a firearm and the shooter was able to continue his rampage until either (1) he ran out of ammo, or (2) law enforcement arrived, or (3) somebody else ended the rampage through the use of force (or threat of armed force).


12 posted on 11/11/2009 10:51:13 AM PST by VRWCmember
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

If 50% of the population carried concealed these nuts wouldn’t get off three shots before they went down and most wouldn’t even try knowing they’d be taken out so soon - all I can say is anyone pops up on a table screaming allah akbar better be ready to meet his maker. ;-(


13 posted on 11/11/2009 10:51:36 AM PST by Tunehead54 (Nothing funny here ;-)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: afraidfortherepublic
I believe the author said it was "ironic"...

And in looking through the history of mass/public shootings, I found that one ironic, too...

Oct. 16, 1991: George Hennard, 35, smashed his pickup through a Luby’s Cafeteria window in Killeen, Texas, and fired on the lunchtime crowd with a high-powered pistol, killing 22 people. At least 20 others were wounded.

14 posted on 11/11/2009 10:52:42 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd
You are a bran-dead moron.

Heh.

15 posted on 11/11/2009 10:53:40 AM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
This guy didn't need a gun:

On May 18, 1927, 45 people, mostly children, were killed and 58 were injured when disgruntled and demented school board member Andrew Kehoe dynamited the new school building in Bath, Michigan out of revenge over his foreclosed farm due in part to the taxes required to pay for the new school.

The Bath School Disaster

16 posted on 11/11/2009 10:54:55 AM PST by the_devils_advocate_666
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: VRWCmember
You were saying ...

What most of those have in common is that at the time and location of the shootings, law-abiding citizens were prohibited by law from carrying a firearm and the shooter was able to continue his rampage until either (1) he ran out of ammo, or (2) law enforcement arrived, or (3) somebody else ended the rampage through the use of force (or threat of armed force).

Look through that list in post #2 and you'll find that most of them ended the shooting themselves and ended up killing themselves and/or simply gave themselves up (waiting for police to arrive)

And, in the two latest two public shootings (listed above) after the Foot Hood killings -- you'll see that one killed himself and the other simply waited at his mother's house for the police to arrive and gave himself up.

17 posted on 11/11/2009 10:56:14 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Izzy Dunne
Yeah - Heh.
 
I think this sign might have been directed at me for that comment.
 
 
 
moran.jpg typical of red america image by blueollie

Just need a photo shop: GET A BRAN MORANS

18 posted on 11/11/2009 11:00:19 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (The grammer police - I ain't not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

Rebecca Heath left out Pearl Harbor: The most terrible mass shooting in the workplace in American history.


19 posted on 11/11/2009 11:02:51 AM PST by Tar and Feathers (www.tarandfeathers.shugartmedia.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
Mass shootings/killings have been part of our society for a long while now... On and on it goes...

Ah, the collectivist gun-grabber makes the most of the spilled blood of the Islamic terrorist murders AGAIN. Don't want to waste a good crisis, eh?

However, as I told you previously:

In America, sometimes people try to shoot a bunch of other people. Invariably, they are stopped. And the liberal media and anti-gunners try to increase the emotional impact of these tragedies in any way possible. One of those ways is to hammer on the use of the word "mass" - like you have.

But in communist countries, there have been true mass killings. Not thousands, or hundreds of thousands, but millions and millions of people killed. In fact, over a hundred million people killed. Those are true "mass" killings.

So when some "observer" like you describes and emphasizes a multiple shooting as a "mass killing," you are knowingly and deliberately trying to create an equivalency comparison with the genuine communist "mass killings" of millions of people.

And to help this comparison, you don't contrast the people who die in a multiple shooting with the hundred million gun owners in the U.S. who did not participate in that shooting, or the two million people each year who use guns to warn off a threat of physical violence without ever firing a shot.

So what's my point? Simply that you aren't anywhere near neutral, and you aren't a mere observer of statistics. That you have a very devious and sinister agenda - to play with words and concepts to try to poison people's understanding of their "culture" and "society," and thereby get a free and good people to think of themselves as the moral equivalents of mass murdering communists.

So to me, you not only slander peaceful, sane, gun-owning Americans, and endanger millions who are safe from threat each year because of their gun ownership, but you also slander and violate the memory of over a hundred million people who were victims of genuine mass killings.

That's just my way of saying that my "we" is not your "we."

20 posted on 11/11/2009 11:03:18 AM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

“In the both cases, as investigators examine the aftermath motivations are still a mystery. “

PC insanity.


21 posted on 11/11/2009 11:05:11 AM PST by headstamp 2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

HERE IT COMES - THE ‘NEED’ FOR MORE GUN CONTROL


22 posted on 11/11/2009 11:12:11 AM PST by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

Most of the ones that ended with the shooter killing himself ended that way because (1) the shooter was almost out of ammo and was determined not to be taken alive, or (2) the shooter was prevented from killing anybody else as a result of being shot/injured or cornered by police and was determined not to be taken alive.

Of the ones who gave themselves up, they were able to continue their rampage until THEY decided to stop it.

In either scenario, the killing could have been stopped earlier had law-abiding citizens been able and prepared to defend themselves and others against the perps.


23 posted on 11/11/2009 11:12:59 AM PST by VRWCmember
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Talisker
You were saying ...

But in communist countries, there have been true mass killings. Not thousands, or hundreds of thousands, but millions and millions of people killed. In fact, over a hundred million people killed. Those are true "mass" killings.

There are different categories and kinds of killings. There are killings for hire, killings during crimes committed for other reasons, there are killings by the Islamic terrorists, and there are killings in war and also there are killings by dictators and despots who can kill many more than any citizen or even those Islamic terrorists have done.

But, in this case (when using the terminology "mass killings" in America), this is an instance of the kind of killings in which they are done by people in this country killing other people in a public setting. Those are the ones which are referred to as "mass killings" (and/or public killings). That's the kind where someone ends up killing people they may have known (worked with or associated with or related to) and also others in the public right along with them.

We're all very familiar with this kind of "mass killing" in America, in public with strangers and/or some who may be known by the perpetrator[s]. We've seen it enough times in the last few decades...

24 posted on 11/11/2009 11:16:51 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: VRWCmember
Nothing new here. The author character would prefer to be clubbed to death rather been shot. She would also have a perfect excuse to be passive while receiving the beating: the attackers are bigger and stronger, there is nothing poor I can do. Attitude of a coward trying to make everybody else as weak and helpless. Perfect material for 0bama cradle-to-grave society.
25 posted on 11/11/2009 11:20:00 AM PST by Samogon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
It's Islamic Terror.
Why can't the MSM say that?

Remember, the only uniform our Commander in Chief ever wore looks different than the one that our soldiers wear and strikingly similar to that of the shooter:

26 posted on 11/11/2009 11:21:00 AM PST by Bon mots
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

“uniquely American phenomenon?”

Canada, Australia, Finland, Germany, Scotland, Israel...


27 posted on 11/11/2009 11:23:16 AM PST by heartwood
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tar and Feathers
You were saying ...

Rebecca Heath left out Pearl Harbor: The most terrible mass shooting in the workplace in American history.

That's a different type of killing. As I was saying, there are different types and categories of killings as has been done or is done by people and/or governments.

In this case, the public knows what one means when they read about someone going into the public and shooting a bunch of people. We've seen it with Fort Hood, in Orlando and yesterday in Tualatin, Oregon.

Of course, if we're talking about a government sending their soldiers to kills a bunch of people, that's another type of killing -- but's it's not of the same type as Orlando, Florida, Tualatin, Oregon and Fort Hood, Texas.

28 posted on 11/11/2009 11:23:24 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Tar and Feathers
You were saying ...

It's Islamic Terror.

I would say so, in terms of Fort Hood. But I wouldn't say so in terms of Orlando, Florida and Tualatin, Oregon. And also with the list in Post #2.

29 posted on 11/11/2009 11:25:30 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

We should be more like the rest of the world and save our mass killings for the soccer riots.


30 posted on 11/11/2009 11:28:05 AM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Domandred
Yet another libtard solution of “Ban guns and there won’t be mass shootings”. How about banning murder? oh wait...

That little tiff between the Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda was mostly a machete affair. Mass hacking instead of shooting. The carnage far outstripped the few shootings in the US. The death toll in the 1994 genocide is estimated between 800,000 and 1 million killed.

31 posted on 11/11/2009 11:28:35 AM PST by Myrddin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: VRWCmember
You were saying ...

In either scenario, the killing could have been stopped earlier had law-abiding citizens been able and prepared to defend themselves and others against the perps.

At Fort Hood, that's a place where people have guns and know how to use them. And the perpetrator was stopped. However, he was not stopped before getting quite a few people killed in the meantime.

It appears to me that no matter how many people you've got with guns (even on the biggest military base around in the U.S.), a person can end up killing a bunch of people in the general public -- no matter what.

32 posted on 11/11/2009 11:30:31 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: dead

LOL..., yes, there are “mass riots” too... :-)


33 posted on 11/11/2009 11:31:24 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

Multiple Victim Public Shootings

http://www.thevrwc.org/JohnLott.pdf


34 posted on 11/11/2009 11:32:05 AM PST by WOBBLY BOB (ACORN:American Corruption for Obama Right Now)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
At Fort Hood, that's a place where people have guns and know how to use them. And the perpetrator was stopped. However, he was not stopped before getting quite a few people killed in the meantime.

The people at Fort Hood know how to use them, but they do not have guns. They were all unarmed except for the first POLICE responders. Hasan was taken down by two cops who arrived on the scene and were able to assess the situation and respond appropriately. EVERYBODY ELSE except for the shooter was UNARMED. In case you didn't know, on a military base all the guns are kept locked up - not carried around by the soldiers.

35 posted on 11/11/2009 11:37:57 AM PST by VRWCmember
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

Can’t believe nobody yet has mentioned Suzanna Hupp about the authors “ironic note” talking about the Luby’s shooting.

The “ironic note” was that Suzanna Hupp had a gun, and had the perfect chance to stop the shooter, but she had left it in her car to comply with Texas gun laws at the time.

The shooter...well he wasn’t complying with the laws.


36 posted on 11/11/2009 11:40:11 AM PST by Domandred (Fdisk, format, and reinstall the entire .gov system. I am Jim Thompson.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: camle
You were saying ...

HERE IT COMES - THE ‘NEED’ FOR MORE GUN CONTROL

It's a problem that is evident in the U.S. over the past few decades and these killings are not just perpetrated by criminals but ordinary citizens (at least they were "ordinary" at one time, until they carried out the killings...).


'Amazing parents' in Tualatin shooting had just filed for divorce

By Rick Bella
November 10, 2009, 8:16PM

GLADSTONE -- Friends and associates saw Robert and Teresa Beiser as devoted, hardworking parents who ran into problems but were trying hard to work them out.

Both parents worked two jobs. They owned a three-bedroom, two-and-a-half-bath home on Southeast Oatfield Road, where they were rearing two children, 14-year-old Nicole and her 11-year-old brother, Drew. 

"They are -- were -- amazing parents," said Lana L. Traynor, a Portland attorney who has worked with the family. "They were very united for the kids."

Both parents visited Tae Kwon Do 2 in Clackamas three or four times a week to watch Nicole work out and compete.

Nicole, a freshman at Gladstone High School, has studied tae kwon do for four years and has a black belt. She has participated in major competitions in Las Vegas and Chicago.

"Kids like Nicole have really good friends in here," said Al Dorsey, an instructor at Tae Kwon Do 2 and a family friend. "It's like one big family here. It's like a big martial arts support group."

Then, last week, a crack appeared to outside observers. The Beisers, who were married in 1994, filed for divorce in Clackamas County Circuit Court. Teresa is listed as the petitioner.

In court documents, their split appeared amicable. They were seeking joint custody of the children, and Robert tentatively agreed to pay $1,100 a month in child support.

Teresa, they tentatively agreed, would remain in their home with the children. When the property sold, the Beisers would split any profit.

Dorsey knew the Beisers were going through a divorce but thought they were managing the situation.

"They were on good terms," he said. "In fact, the mom had told us that they were separating. We've seen them, and they were always civil."

Thirty-nine-year-old Robert -- friends called him "Rob" -- worked as a vehicle claims adjuster for Property Damage Appraisers in Lake Oswego. He also made predawn deliveries of The Oregonian, working first as a private contractor, then for one of the major distributors.

Teresa, 36, worked as a lab technician for Legacy MetroLab-Tualatin, which provides drug and alcohol testing for employers and the courts. Teresa, an avid bodybuilder and cyclist, also worked as a spin instructor at 24 Hour Fitness on Southeast Sunnyside Road in Clackamas.

Steve Rautio, who distributes The Oregonian in the Clackamas and Oregon City areas, said he couldn't guess Rob was suffering so much or that he was capable of violence. He said he was aware that the couple were divorcing. "He was fine, he was fine," Rautio said, choking back tears. "But he had problems."

37 posted on 11/11/2009 11:40:21 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
But, in this case (when using the terminology "mass killings" in America), this is an instance of the kind of killings in which they are done by people in this country killing other people in a public setting.

No, in this case it was an Islamic terrorist killing. And in other cases in America, there are - as you said, "killings for hire, killings during crimes committed for other reasons."

Then there are killings "where someone ends up killing people they may have known (worked with or associated with or related to) and also others in the public right along with them." But what you don't mention is that these latter killings, despite their screaming, blood-spattered gun-grabber headlines, are statistically the absolutely least likely cause of gun death in America.

So my point stands. You pervert statistics to bloat the perception of these types of killings, you invoke monstrous associations, and you hide statistics which would easily reveal the miniscule threat of such occurences compared to other dangers.

And why? Because you want people to fear guns, to doubt their competency, and to move politically towards voting for regimes which would delegalize and seize guns from the people, and put them solely in the hands of the government.

Which is exactly the scenario proven to be historically necessary for, as you put it: "killings by dictators and despots who can kill many more than any citizen or even those Islamic terrorists have done."

What a nice goal for your efforts.

38 posted on 11/11/2009 11:41:06 AM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Domandred
You were saying ...

The shooter...well he wasn’t complying with the laws.

By the nature of a "criminal act" -- that's always going to be the basic problem. There's no way around that one...

39 posted on 11/11/2009 11:42:03 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
In the both cases, as investigators examine the aftermath motivations are still a mystery.

There is no mystery here and of course, Ft. Hood has it's own string. . .which this writer refuses to follow. No mystery here either, as to writers motivations. . .and political persuasion.

40 posted on 11/11/2009 11:43:20 AM PST by cricket
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Samogon

The author also omitted some instances where the killing was cut short by a private citizen with a conceal carry permit who either shot or confronted the shooter and limited the casualty count. Such instances at churches and court houses in Texas demonstrate the value of private citizens being armed for self-defense.


41 posted on 11/11/2009 11:44:42 AM PST by VRWCmember
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
You should be careful with such statements. The army base has very restrictive regulations of weapons, and in this case, ALL of the victims were UNARMED. Nonsense, I know...
42 posted on 11/11/2009 11:47:32 AM PST by Samogon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

Back suring the Clinton admin several people were killed in a shootng in Washington state.

Clinton decried this as proof we needed more gun control.

On the same daay, the same number of people were kidnapped from Arkansas and were murdered by having their throats cut in Missouri. No gun involve. No mention in the news. No crys for “gun control”.

One man was arrested and the only proof was some celophane wrapped money which was sent to the FBI to have the wrapping checked for fingerprints. The clutzes at the FBI instead opened the package, destroyed the wrapping and tested the money. Evidence destroyed-—the perp walked.


43 posted on 11/11/2009 11:48:23 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (The sword does not kill. It is a tool in the killer's hand.---Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
A number of commentators have attempted to re-frame this as just a "typical" mass shooting. This is superficial analysis at best - what is more appropriate, comparing Hasan's atrocity to a recent, worldwide, twenty-year series of mass killings by similarly-motivated Islamists or a fifty-year history of mass killings by perpetrators with nothing in common but the means?

I do take one lesson from the Charles Whitman incident that seems to have been obscured by time - in that case firearms in the hands of civilians pinned the perpetrator down while the police approached him. On modern campuses that wouldn't be possible. We didn't learn that lesson, we ignored it.

44 posted on 11/11/2009 11:49:28 AM PST by Billthedrill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

All the gun control laws in the world, and even the destruction of every handgun in existence (if that were even possible), would not have prevented that incident. People who decide to become killers - for whatever reason - will kill with whatever is available to them. The question is: “Do we want to mandate that everybody present must be an unarmed potential victim?” The gun-controllers answer “yes”.


45 posted on 11/11/2009 11:49:38 AM PST by VRWCmember
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

People who label mass slaughter by Islamic terrorists as a “tragedy” need to be japslapped every single time they utter the phrase.


46 posted on 11/11/2009 11:51:27 AM PST by wolficatZ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Talisker
You were saying ...

No, in this case it was an Islamic terrorist killing. And in other cases in America, there are - as you said, "killings for hire, killings during crimes committed for other reasons."

As I said up above (and elsewhere on other postings) this particular one was related to Islamic terrorism, but it was also in a different category than the organized Islamic terrorism from certain terrorist groups.

And while the Islamic terrorism is something that goes on in this country, at the same time, so does the "mass killings" that we've seen with our own people in this country shooting other people in this country, as in the list up above.

Now, even though Islamic terrorism is a big threat and something to definitely combat, I would say that our own people have killed more of our own people than terrorists have.

And, in this case, in the Fort Hood shootings, it turns out that this guy was one of our own people, too -- having been born and raised in this country. So, he was engaging in Islamic terrorism having been a home-grown variety, coming from within our own country, having lived here all his life.

47 posted on 11/11/2009 11:52:53 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler
It appears to me that no matter how many people you've got with guns (even on the biggest military base around in the U.S.), a person can end up killing a bunch of people in the general public -- no matter what.

And yet - these statistical anomolies notwithstanding - in every state where the right to concealed carry has been expanded the rate of violent crime and murder has gone down. The highest per capita murder and violent crime rates are in heavily democrat states and cities that have the most draconian anti-gun laws. Mass shootings are much more likely to occur in locations where people are not allowed to carry guns. You never hear of this type of thing happening in a gun store or at a shooting range. I wonder why that is?

48 posted on 11/11/2009 11:58:10 AM PST by VRWCmember
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Samogon
You were saying ...

You should be careful with such statements. The army base has very restrictive regulations of weapons, and in this case, ALL of the victims were UNARMED. Nonsense, I know...

Well, it's a clear example to me, that if soldiers on an army base cannot defend themselves adequately, I really don't know how, many people here, think that they can do better than trained soldiers, with those soldiers having gone through combat and having had a lot of experience and being specifically trained.

In other words, if it can happen on one of the biggest bases around with soldiers all over the place, it's obvious that the general public doesn't have a chance in defending itself any better than what we saw at Fort Hood...

49 posted on 11/11/2009 11:58:46 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Star Traveler

I’m curious - especially given your profile page - as to why you seem to be arguing that this is a problem of the availability of guns. Has somebody hijacked your account.


50 posted on 11/11/2009 12:00:11 PM PST by VRWCmember
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-94 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson