Skip to comments.Fort Hood Killer Reportedly Chose "Cop Killer" Handgun (More Brady baloney)
Posted on 11/11/2009 11:47:41 AM PST by neverdem
Four and a half years ago, three police organizations in the United States issued advisories to warn officers that a new handgun introduced into the U.S. market by a Belgium manufacturer of military firearms represented a unique threat to the safety of police officers.
It was a handgun that was designed to fire bullets through body armor. A U.S. Senator and a U.S. Congressman urged a legal ban on civilian possession of the firearm, which began being referred to as the "cop killer gun." The gun, manufactured by FN Herstal of Belgium, is lightweight and easily concealable, and was designed as a military sidearm to complement military rifles made by the same company. One law enforcement expert referred to the Five-Seven as "an assault rifle that fits in your pocket."
While no police officer has reportedly been killed by a suspect armed with a Five-Seven, it may now have taken the lives of U.S. soldiers. Today, several news sources are reporting that it was the Five-Seven that Nidal M. Hasan used in his shooting attack at Fort Hood in Texas Thursday
In January 2005, the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP), International Brotherhood of Police Officers (IBPO) and the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives (NOBLE), released their alert to the police community at a press conference, joined by U.S. Senator Charles Schumer and Congressman Elliott Engel of New York.
When first launched for civilian sales, company officials wrote on the company website that “enemy personnel, even wearing body armor can be effectively engaged up to 200 meters. Kevlar® helmets and vests as well as the CRISAT protection will be penetrated.” That language has since been removed by FN Herstal.
In early 2005, Brady Campaign staff purchased the weapon at a Virginia gun dealer and test-fired it. The bullets successfully penetrated a police Kevlar vest.
As the nation's largest, non-partisan, grassroots organization leading the fight to prevent gun violence, the Brady Campaign, with its dedicated network of Million Mom March Chapters, works to enact and enforce sensible gun laws, regulations and public policies. The Brady Campaign is devoted to creating an America free from gun violence, where all Americans are safe at home, at school, at work, and in our communities.
For continuing insight and comment on the gun issue, read Paul Helmke's blog at www.bradycampaign.org/blog/. Visit the Brady Campaign website at www.bradycampaign.org.
Even less relevant is the allegation that Hasan used illegal armor-piercing ammunition. The Brady Campaign bizarrely chose to highlight that claim even though there was no indication that any of Hasans victims were wearing bullet-proof vests, let alone that his bullets penetrated them. Perhaps the group hoped that such puzzling illogic would distract people from the plain fact that having a gun is better than not having one when you are confronted by a homicidal maniac.
Hasan was an army officer on an army base. Getting his hands on a weapon was not a problem.
If they really wanted to scare people, shouldn't they have called it a Minority Baby Killer Gun?
Brady bunch blames gun for terrorist murders. Forgetting to mention that the armor piercing (cop killer) ammo is not available to the public. These scumbags exploiting the Islamic terrorist murders of American soldiers makes me sick. I want to see the Brady Bunch blame the murderer for a change.
That's not entirely accurate, at all. He had no more access to a weapon, than a civilian school teacher working on the base. I think civilians believe that Army & Marine Corps bases are places where weapons are just laying about. They aren't. Weapons are highly secured, at all times. If you don't have a reason to remove your weapon from the armory, you're not going to be removing a weapon from the armory.
And, there's more than a probable chance that Hasan wasn't even assigned a sidearm, unlike all other line or infantry officers that are assigned a personal sidearm. It's probably for these reasons that Hasan used his personally acquired and owned weapons.
They fail to mention that they were probably the ones who began referring to anything as "cop killer."
If you want to kill a cop, buy a .45. If you want to wound him, buy a 5x7FN. Shoosh - these people are crazy - also, have you ever seen them upset when a cop actually gets killed? No, they’re too busy hanging out with their ivy league terrorist Bill Ayers.
She really IS a stupid old hag isn’t she ...
You beat me to the point. This is precisely the case.
The 5.7 does not seem to be much of any kind of killer. The killed to wounded ration is, thank God, very low.
We should ban planes first, though, since they killed 3,000 on 9/11.
The 5.7 FN is not much of a killer. The dead to wounded ratio is, thank God, very low.
“the plain fact that having a gun is better than not having one when you are confronted by a homicidal maniac.”
It was an UNARMED SITTING DUCK killer gun.
The presence of this traitor as a Major on a U.S. Army post was made possible by the malaise of prolitical correctness all the way up the chain of command.
Great story! (Sarcasm)
For those of us who know a thing about guns, what was the caliber? I didn’t know they made handguns that would fire rifle calibers.
The penetration for handguns is in the ammo not the machine itself.
Once the Islamist nutjob shouted "Allahu Akbar!" and opened fire, they did not have anything on hand to shoot back with. Instead, it took a cop civilian cops, who arrived THREE minutes after the killing started, to take the perp down. And this on a major military base!
THAT's the REAL story here...
batfe doesn’t seem too worried about the FiveSeven or it’s ammo.
How is that other soldiers (his victims) didn’t have any guns (”cop killer” or simple “civilian killer” guns)?
The bottom line is that none of the people at fort hood had on body armor. A .22 long rifle round would have done just about the same amount of damage as the 5.7 did. I understand he also had a .357 magnum, but that seems to be lost in the news media hype.
What an amazing display of ignorance and deceit.
He got the gun over the counter just as you and I could.
They haven’t released whether he was using Armor Piercing Ammo illegally maintained.
In any event the Bullet is key to defeating body armor not the caliber. However, this particular 5.77 round travels at almost double the speed of normal handgun rounds and can defeat more kinds of body armor than a 9mm or .40cal.
Since he wasn’t up against body armor, and knew that, he wouldn’t need AP. Since AP is verrry hard to get and would risk arrest he probably used normal 5.77 ammo.
My personal thought was he wanted to be effective out to 50+ yards and this is the round for that. Or maybe that was just the kind of weapon he had. It is ideal for firing a lot of shots quickly because it has very little recoil. Just Pop Pop Pop like any other .22.
"IT" didn't take anyone's life. Hasan took their lives, with the tools he had at hand. The gun is not the weapon - it's just an implement of the human will. The mind is the weapon. Without his malice and forethought, "it's" just an expensive paperweight.
They need to stop whining about the guns. We are damn lucky the pig didn’t have resources to get his hands on a bomb. (which I suspect will be the next form of internal attack on the military)
5.7 mm, which is why it is called the Five-Seven.
That's one of the reasons I considered this gun for home defense (for the wife). Our Ruger .357 revolver is a bit too much for her and our H&K 9mm perhaps not enough in other ways.
It’s just too bad Hasan didn’t choose one of those
“muslim killer” hand guns. It would have saved a lot
I didn’t mean by official title, but what they are stereotyped as.
It would be very good for home defense. Low recoil, low sound, low muzzle flash and decent mag capacity.
He was an Officer, all he had to do was show up at the armory and withdraw a rifle or a pistol and say he was going to the range to practice.
Not only are officers allowed to practice their marksmanship they are encouraged to do so.
Gee who didn’t see load of BS coming down the pike too bad we can’t produce methane from this constant stream of excrement coming from the Disarm the law-abiding Statists.
Is there any doubt that if that bozo (I mean Hasan, not you know who) hadn’t been able to get a hold of a gun we would have made a bomb? Or driven a Humvee into a crowd of soldiers, Or?
Leave to the MSM to spin a .22 into a “cop killer.” Assuming this guy knows what he’s doing around guns I’d say knew he was not going up against cops or body armor and chose a weapon with minimum recoil for rapid firing. Sheesh.
“Armor piercing variants of the 5.7x28mm are only offered to law enforcement and military customers. Commercially available variants of the 5.7x28mm cartridge are classified by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) as being not armor piercing and it was claimed that the SS192 and SS196 cartridge variants did not penetrate Kevlar vests in tests conducted by FNH USA.”
It was the 5.7x28mm. Basically a .22 magnum. Comparing it to a rifle round is laughable.
With any round you have a set amount of energy propelling the bullet, and you can choose lighter, faster bullets or heavier, slower ones. The anti-rights crowd jumps on the velocity (high relative to pistols, nothing compared to rifles) and completely ignores the tiny round.
The 5.7 has energy levels in the 300 ft-lb range. By comparison:
- Old police .38 revolvers are around 250 ft-lbs.
- The smallest round considered viable for self defense, the 9mm, has around 400 ft-lbs.
- The other two predominant defense calibers, the .40 and .45, have around 500 ft-lbs.
- The .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum revolvers pack about 750 and 1000 ft-lbs respectively.
- The “intermediate” cartridges in the AK and AR that the media love to vilify have around 1300 ft-lbs.
- Actual rifle cartridges, like your boring old .308 or .30-06 deer rifle, fall around 3000 ft-lbs.
There’s nothing “armor piercing” about it. It will go through a vest, the same way that any rifle, most magnum revolvers, and a variety of pistols will, because vests are designed for light pistol rounds. The fabric just can’t handle that much energy.
I completely agree. One of my next two guns will be either this gun or the 1911 .45. The wife can’t really shoot the .45 so I may go the FN route first.
I cannot envision a “cop killer gun” any more than I can a “cop killer automobile” or a “cop killer baseball bat” ... This is one of the limitations of my non-progressive mind.
To assimilate that article I have to ascribe will and volition to an inanimate object, and I am unable to do so.
Low stopping power too
I got mine a little s&w featherweight 5 shot.
No hammer to snag, very small fits in your pocket. Another thing I considered was someone grabbing the barrel or putting their thumb between the hammer & frame and always ready.
Good idea. Thanks.
I say that while keeping a short 12 ga Mossberg handy for 0-dark-30 surprises. The absolute antithesis of the 5.7 as I described it above. Major recoil, big big sound, muzzle flash like a super nova and only six shells at most.
What can I say? Sometimes you feel like a Ninja sometimes you feel like the U.S.S. Ticonderoga. Life is better when you give yourself choices. ;^)
The Ft. Hood massacre doesn't follow with that.
How is it possible that a person could not possess the ability of deduction?
So, no one was wearing body armor, Why would they since this was one of Bill Clinton’s GUN FREE ZONES! More important was the ammo fired by the law officer. My bet it was 9 mm ball, which is a lot better than finger nails, but shame she wasn’t using JHP as we could bury the alleged TERRORIST.
ATTABOY GIRL, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
I've heard about that Mossberg for years. In fact I don't think there could be a gun thread on FR without mention of it! My local shop doesn't care for the Mossberg and is always trying to sell me the Remington 870 but I can't hear a word he's saying when I'm staring at a M4.
I like the looks I get at the range while shooting my .357. Everybody backs up, looks, and somebody always asks what I'm shooting.
For home defense I was also thinking of a pistol crossbow so as to not give away my location.
Gotta give yourself choices... indeed.
I'm still puzzled how a guy with "no interest in weapons" came to own such an expensive and boutique weapon - a weapon that is used by a number country's special forces units. Hopefully, someone is asking that question.
I have asked that question and have been attacked as a anti-gun Sarah Brady nut here on FR. I believe the type of gun was selected for him by Al Qaeda.
It is an assault machine pistol with low enough recoil for a neophyte to produce maximum terror. 56 posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:11:02 PM by
Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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Hey! Yo! Brady scum... It ain’t the weapon. It’s the ammo that penetrates body armor. And even that should be legal in America, IMO.
As usual, the Brady nitwits don’t let facts get in the way...
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