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Medical workers balk at mandatory flu vaccines
Reuters ^ | Nov 13, 2009 | Steve Gorman Steve Gorman

Posted on 11/14/2009 5:14:44 PM PST by george76

thousands of nurses and other front-line healthcare workers are fighting mandatory flu immunization policies being put in place by some U.S. hospitals.

The H1N1 pandemic, which has killed about 3,900 Americans so far, has stoked tensions over the best way to safeguard medical caregivers and their patients from flu. Nurses unions have won some early battles against compulsory vaccination.

data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that only about 40 percent of U.S. healthcare workers ever get shots for seasonal influenza.

mandating that healthcare workers get vaccines is misguided, ineffective and ultimately counterproductive.

"There is no evidence that vaccination of healthcare workers in hospitals or outpatient settings has any impact whatsoever on patients," said Dr. Melanie Swift, head of occupational health for Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Tennessee. "You've got to vaccinate the patients."

Healthcare workers unions are challenging compulsory flu vaccine policies with some success.

The University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics was ordered to halt its mandatory program this month after unions for nearly 5,000 employees there won two binding arbitration rulings that struck down the policy as a contract violation.

Last month, a New York judge sided with a nurses union and issued a court order against a statewide policy requiring flu shots for all medical workers...

Nurses unions also have filed lawsuits against HCA hospitals on behalf of its members in California and Nevada.

Critics of mandatory immunization say the danger posed in hospitals by influenza pales in comparison to many other bugs lurking in medical facilities.

The CDC reports 1.7 million people are stricken each year by all manner of hospital-acquired infections, such as pneumonia, and 99,000 of those die. The number of flu cases among them is unknown but believed to be very small.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; US: California; US: Massachusetts; US: Nevada; US: New York
KEYWORDS: flu; fluvaccine; h1n1; healthcare; immunization; influenza; pandemic; swineflu; swinefluvaccine; vaccination; vaccine

1 posted on 11/14/2009 5:14:45 PM PST by george76
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To: george76

We have doctors in the city where I work recommending NOT getting the H1N1. Nor are they even having the vaccine in their offices.


2 posted on 11/14/2009 5:21:11 PM PST by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: swmobuffalo

Google BBC multiple sclerosis and hepatitis b shots


3 posted on 11/14/2009 5:27:45 PM PST by Flavius
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To: george76

I’ll take their shot. I have been searching high and low for one.


4 posted on 11/14/2009 5:29:41 PM PST by mysterio
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To: george76
Steve Gorman Steve Gorman has a problem with capitalizing properly.

This causes me to disbelieve anything written by Steve Gorman Steve Gorman.

5 posted on 11/14/2009 5:32:39 PM PST by humblegunner
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To: george76
Want to save thousands of lives each year?

1. Increase the age for a driver's license to 18.

2. Institute a mandatory 2 year prison sentence for first time DUI.

3. Ban abortion.

4. Make all boaters pass a CG safety class and require a license for all motorized watercraft.

5. Allow armed security personnel on all school grounds and campuses.

6 posted on 11/14/2009 5:33:31 PM PST by Doc Savage (SOBAMP!)
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To: mysterio
I’ll take their shot. I have been searching high and low for one.

The outfit telling us this is a problem is the same outfit that lies to us about everything else.

Why would you believe this one thing?

7 posted on 11/14/2009 5:33:52 PM PST by elkfersupper (Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: swmobuffalo

Shocking H1N1 Swine Flu Vaccine Miscarriage Stories From Pregnant Women –

Tell Your Doctors That Vaccines And Pregnancy Do Not Mix

http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/health/vaccinations/news.php?q=1258144504


8 posted on 11/14/2009 5:33:53 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: mysterio

Our County does not even have the SEASONAL FLU vaccine.

We were over in the valley (we are on the coast and travel over a mountain range 2hr drive to get to the valley) at a Safeway and the pharmacy folks overheard me say (read a sign on their window) there is not seasonal vaccine there either.

They stepped right up and said to go to the Philomoth Safeway (that would be the last Safeway before going over the mountain range home so it was on our way) as they just got in a batch a few hours ago (that day).

So we got ours and folks/medical too have been really curious to know where we got ours when we say we have been vacinated.

The gal also getting her flu shot at that Safeway said that county too was not recieving vaccine and her Doc sent her over to that particular Safeway hearing they got a batch in.

And I am with you if people dont want there H1N1 vaccine we will be happy to take it.

I am hoping KVs Doc has a batch of H1N1 in when he goes for his periodic well check this coming week.

Having a tracheostomy and being a quad should bump him up to the top.
Same with me as I am his primary medical careprovider.

We had an extended warm fall just now getting the winter storms in but the flu season has been very tame this year.

Rarely even hearing a cough in the public and the two times it caught my attention it was teenagers.


9 posted on 11/14/2009 5:41:17 PM PST by Global2010 (Strange We Can Believe In)
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To: mysterio; LucyT

During a televised interview to prepare the American public for a massive campaign to inoculate the population for the H1N1 flu virus, President Obama’s HHS Secretary, Dr. Kathleen Sebelius, told the nation, “study after study, scientist after scientist, has determined that there really is no safety risk with thimerosal.”

Glancing at the foot-high stack of published clinical studies on the desk, years of independent research identifying certain neurological impairments, such as Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), and cellular organ damage resulting from vaccines containing the toxic ethylmercury preservative commonly known as thimerosal, it is incomprehensible to fathom the depth of scientific denial in Sebelius’ statement.

Was the Secretary blatantly lying to Americans, especially parents of small children six months and older and pregnant mothers, to convince us to line up for flu shots? If we unpack Sebelius’ misleading propaganda and properly rephrase her pronouncement, we can uncover a semblance of truth in her words.

Instead it would have been proper for her to inform the nation that “study after study of spurious and flawed research that would likely never pass a graduate school examination, scientist after scientist affiliated or with financial ties to the vaccine industry now dominating our academies and health agencies, have determined that there really is no safety risk with thimerosal.”

http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/health/vaccinations/news.php?q=1258239617


10 posted on 11/14/2009 5:41:43 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: elkfersupper
Because I've taken immunology and micro / virology at the graduate level and have had the seasonal shot every year since childhood.

Taking an extra flintstones vitamin might make the anti vaccine woo-woos feel safe, but I'll stick with vaccines.
11 posted on 11/14/2009 6:13:49 PM PST by mysterio
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To: mysterio

I love all of this nonsense about how evil people are for refusing the flu vaccine. I take care of myself and I’ve had the flu maybe 5 times in 28 years of life. I’ve gotten the flu every time I’ve had the flu shot except for ONE year. This shot has come too little and too late for the area I live in so, no, I will not be getting it. Not only that, it’s not even available to me right now, even though I work with immuno-suppressed children and their families. By the way, most of those families haven’t been able to get one either, because here it’s really only available to pregnant women and the uninsured. Oh, and prisoners.


12 posted on 11/14/2009 7:49:36 PM PST by TruJess
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To: TruJess
No one is evil for not getting the shot.

However, the uninformed woo woos are doing damage by lying about the shot to try to prevent others from getting it. There are a plethora of threads on this site right now that are dedicated to scaring pregnant women away from the shot even though the flu shot has always been recommended for them. If a sane pregnant woman actually believes these uninformed people and gets the flu instead of the vaccine, that would be very sad.
13 posted on 11/15/2009 8:22:22 AM PST by mysterio
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To: mysterio
The government is busy trying to destroy this economy, etc so the middle class, private business,etc will be destroyed. So eventually you will have the rich elites (government) and the poor(governed).

The take over of the health care if passed will be a death sentence for many senior citizens whom would not have been denied care prior but now will be sent home to die. Those with severe medical issues may not be able to get the health care needed due to the expense and whether the government deems it worthwhile, etc. Chances are if you voted incorrectly in the past, a believer of things the government deems wrong etc, can be denied health care, etc and now we are suppose to believe this same government is concerned about our welfare regarding swine flu?

14 posted on 11/15/2009 8:47:50 AM PST by Two-Bits (Love Freedom? Hate Tyranny? Always fly the United States of America flag)
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To: george76
My wife is a nurse and used to get the seasonal flu shots. She's the first in her family ever to get rheumatoid arthritis, of which squalene is a known cause. Needless to say, the consequent steady dose of methotrexate is no blessing and carries its own risks.
15 posted on 11/15/2009 8:50:52 AM PST by Carry_Okie (Islam offers three choices: surrender, fight, or die.)
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To: Two-Bits
Guilt by Association fallacy.

But to answer your question, I have a pretty good background in immunology / micro / biotech, and have worked ten years in research. I can't and won't tell you what to believe. However, the info and debunking released by the CDC has been pretty spot on, and it doesn't differ from the yearly debunking of anti-vaccine hysteria the CDC put out under other administrations.

It's up to each individual to decide whether they want to get vaccinated or risk the flu. I would only ask that the person does adequate research before deciding. For me, the choice is clear.
16 posted on 11/15/2009 9:14:14 AM PST by mysterio
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To: Carry_Okie
Sorry for her rheumatoid arthritis.

My main goal with this specific topic is to encourage people to do some independent research before they authorize any treatments / drugs to themselves or their kids.

Not just with flu but also with any other health situation : As we know, it is best to have serious / detailed discussions / second opinions before letting a surgeon grab a knife.

17 posted on 11/15/2009 9:38:46 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: mysterio
I do not question your experience nor background but am surprised, you are having a difficult time in getting this shot.

Also with your experience and background that you are not alarmed the vaccine/adjuvant combination being referred to as the “swine flu vaccine” has apparently never been safety tested or approved by the FDA. In many cases the vaccine is being sent to clinics, pharmacies and other health establishments separately from the adjuvant chemical, leaving it up to each local vaccine retailer to properly mix the vaccine with the adjuvant so the potential for improper mixing, improper dosages, and human error is alarming.

It is also interesting to note vaccine makers and federal officials will be immune from lawsuits that result from any new swine flu vaccine, under a document signed by Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius which should make us all feel safe and warm.

Mysterio, we are both on the same page, it is up to each individual to decide whether they want to take a risk with or without the vaccination. We are also in complete agreement that everyone does adequate research before making their decision. To each of us, Mysterio, our choices are clear. I would never nor want to try to persuade you from your decision, I sincerely hope you get your swine flu shot.

18 posted on 11/15/2009 9:56:29 AM PST by Two-Bits (Love Freedom? Hate Tyranny? Always fly the United States of America flag)
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To: Two-Bits
Thanks.

The H1N1 vaccine is made in the same fashion as the seasonal and would have been included in the seasonal had it appeared a few months earlier last year.

A little more from the CDC about adjuvants and flu shots.

The pertinent paragraph :

Does the 2009 H1N1 monovalent flu vaccine have an adjuvant or squalene in it?

Adjuvants are agents that are sometimes added to a vaccine to increase its effectiveness. There are no adjuvants (such as squalene) in either the 2009 H1N1 monovalent or seasonal flu vaccines used in the United States.


I would have already gotten the vaccine due to my own risk group status, but the idiots in my area decided to pool all of the vaccines and do one large county-wide first come / first serve clinic that was not dependent on risk status. However, I have received word that there will be a local clinic this week in my area, so maybe I'll get lucky. I managed to get a seasonal earlier this autumn.
19 posted on 11/15/2009 10:08:48 AM PST by mysterio
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To: mysterio

I did a lot of research before taking the H1N1 vaccine. My husband got H1N1 and so did my son, and I had to take Tamiflu because I hadn’t gotten the vaccine yet (it wasn’t available). I’m pregnant. I bet just the vaccine would have been better than Tamiflu - that stuff made me sick (or maybe it was just the flu). Anyway, I gladly took the vaccine a week later when it became available.

The same week that my family had H1N1 a 22 year old pregnant woman who lived near me, who had no other health conditions, died of H1N1-related pneumonia.

I took my chances with the vaccine this time. I avoid medicine and doctors in general, and I do not normally get the seasonal flu shot because I have rarely had the flu. This time, the risks were worth the benefits.

To the miscarriage reports others have posted - correlation is not causation. Miscarriage in the first trimester is far more common than most people think. Where is the correlation of miscarriage to the usual flu shot?


20 posted on 11/15/2009 10:46:53 AM PST by ReagansShinyHair
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To: george76

I know a family with two sons who should be entering college about now, both were perfectly normal until receiving a certain vaccination. I can’t remember now what the vaccine was for but both had the shot at the same time and both have been diagnosed with extreme autism since shortly afterward. Neither one speaks now, one seems rather normal at a glance, he is quiet generally, the other is given to spells of making meaningless noises and swinging his head from side to side, he looks retarded at first glance. The parents are convinced that the vaccine was the cause, what are the chances of two normal children of the same parents going autistic without some common trigger?


21 posted on 11/15/2009 10:50:15 AM PST by RipSawyer (Trying to reason with a leftist is like trying to catch sunshine in a fish net at midnight.)
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To: RipSawyer

Terrible for that family and the two boys.

Autism is an awful thing. Hopefully, we will find out the causes soon as these autism stories are very sad.


22 posted on 11/15/2009 11:02:42 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

Bump! Good find ... ;-)


23 posted on 11/15/2009 11:03:40 AM PST by Tunehead54 (Nothing funny here ;-)
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To: mysterio
Is this the same CDC (Government Agency) that has bent over lower & lower past the ankles due to political pressure? The same CDC along with the FDA (another Government Agency), which sold out any credibility a long time ago?

Bless your heart, you dearly want the swine flu shot but due to some idiot's decision in your area that even being in a high risk group was not able to secure a shot due to their policy of first come, first serve. Now you are hoping with no guarantees still having your high risk group status, to secure a shot in a local clinic this week. Myserio, you must agree how fortunate we are to be able to witness Government Health Care before it even goes into effect. Bless us all.

Myserio, would you think it wise since experiencing yourself the difficult time you are having in securing this vaccine especially with one being in a high risk group, trying to convince (maybe scare) others in wanting the same with the limited resources on hand? Considering all that has happen in the last 10 months, panic is the last thing our government would want......

24 posted on 11/15/2009 11:50:33 AM PST by Two-Bits (Love Freedom? Hate Tyranny? Always fly the United States of America flag)
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To: ReagansShinyHair
A bit more on vaccinations and background rates of disease.
25 posted on 11/15/2009 11:53:31 AM PST by mysterio
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To: Two-Bits
Myserio, would you think it wise since experiencing yourself the difficult time you are having in securing this vaccine especially with one being in a high risk group, trying to convince (maybe scare) others in wanting the same with the limited resources on hand?

An excellent question. I've thought about this a lot. The more people the anti-vaccine woo-woos scare away from the shot, the higher the chance that I'll be able to locate a dose myself.

However, there are genuine at risk people who are going to read the nonsense being spread by these nutbags, and some of them are going to believe the nonsense. And out of those, some will die of the flu. So I feel it's the responsibility of those who actually understand immunology to refute the lies of the anti-vaccine crowd.

On a related note, I just found out my local clinic this week will also be first come, first serve instead of priority. I don't argue for this often, but I think those (locally) in charge of allocating vaccine resources should lose their jobs.
26 posted on 11/15/2009 12:04:47 PM PST by mysterio
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To: mysterio

I’m waiting for the first vaccine riot.

The local media here in Indy keep hyping the scarcity factor 24/7.

Then I saw on tv that the Wall St domos got prioritized over hospital workers in NYC.


27 posted on 11/15/2009 12:16:12 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: mysterio
Mysterio, it was an illuminating experience conversing with you.

If I had a dosage to give to you, I would do so in a heartbeat. I sincerely hope if we converse again, you have gotten your swine flu shot and all is well.

28 posted on 11/15/2009 12:19:16 PM PST by Two-Bits (Love Freedom? Hate Tyranny? Always fly the United States of America flag)
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To: Two-Bits

Thanks! Good to talk to you, as well.


29 posted on 11/15/2009 1:00:37 PM PST by mysterio
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To: nascarnation
Personally, I can't believe that free-for-all they pulled over at Hoosier park didn't result in a massive mess. Those doses were supposed to go to priority clinics / children, and instead, they pooled them and gave them out non-priority at a casino.

My friends know the people who made that decision, and they share my opinion that those in charge are idiots. Meanwhile, my doctor can't get one dose for me even though I'm in a high risk group.
30 posted on 11/15/2009 1:03:59 PM PST by mysterio
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To: mysterio

No squalene? Interesting since an article I read said the vaccine being produced out of the country by Novaris and Glaxo/Kline-Smith said it was being utilized. I’m not very confident that those vaccines for H1N1 wouldn’t make it into this country now that obamination has been taking flak for not providing enough.(And no, I can’t provide that reference because it was several months ago, I think)


31 posted on 11/15/2009 2:43:26 PM PST by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like what you say))
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To: freeangel
As I understand it, adjuvanted vaccine is available in Europe.

The reason there's a shortage here in the states is because they are getting less doses per egg than they anticipated. In the future, vaccine production will most likely utilize cell culture methods rather than the older egg model.
32 posted on 11/15/2009 3:20:34 PM PST by mysterio
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