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Is Obama planning a $3 trillion income tax increase? (repealing all Bush tax cuts)
Reuters Blogs ^ | James Pethokoukis

Posted on 11/17/2009 12:45:54 PM PST by reaganaut1

Did I just see a trail balloon launched? Over at a Wall Street Journal conference, Christina Romer, chairman of President Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers had this to say about deficit reduction:

But the chairman of the president’s Council of Economic Advisers admitted that health reform and a growing economy isn’t enough to bring down the deficit. She did mention one other place that revenue could come from: letting the Bush tax cuts expire.

Me: Since Obama already wants to get rid of the income and capital gains tax cuts for wealthier Americans that expire at the end of 2010, clearly what Romer is referring to is the rest of the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts. Letting all the 2001 cuts — rate reductions, child tax credit marriage penalty relief — expire would raise tax revenues by $2.5 trillion through 2019. (These CBO numbers assume no negative economic feedback impact from higher taxes.) And letting the 2003 tax cuts on capital gains and dividends expire would be tantamount to a $350 billion tax increase through 2019. And none of this includes possible plans for a VAT that could raise $400 billion a year more to close the huge projected gap — maybe 7 percentage points — between spending as a percentage of GDP and revenues as a percentage of GDP.

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bloggersandpersonal; bushtaxcuts; christinaromer; pethokoukis; romer; taxes; taxincreases

1 posted on 11/17/2009 12:45:56 PM PST by reaganaut1
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To: reaganaut1
UPDATE 1-China, US eye pact to help troubled banks -sources
2 posted on 11/17/2009 12:46:51 PM PST by bsf2009
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To: reaganaut1

Why is this question even being asked? We know that he will let them expire.


3 posted on 11/17/2009 12:47:17 PM PST by 17th Miss Regt
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To: reaganaut1

The Dems have never believed that the Bush tax cuts were legitimate and will allow them to expire in 2010 introducing the largest tax increase in US history.


4 posted on 11/17/2009 12:47:41 PM PST by kevinm13 (Tim Geithner is a tax cheat. Manmade "Global Warming" is a HOAX!)
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To: reaganaut1

When the 2003 tax cuts expire at the end of 2010 people making $50k/yr can kiss goodbye $2500 cash/yr. People making $100K/yr can kiss goodbye $4000 cash/yr.


5 posted on 11/17/2009 12:48:25 PM PST by avacado
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To: reaganaut1

6 posted on 11/17/2009 12:49:13 PM PST by Lucky9teen (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: reaganaut1
(These CBO numbers assume no negative economic feedback impact from higher taxes.)

In other words, the numbers are garbage. (GI-GO)

7 posted on 11/17/2009 12:49:25 PM PST by 17th Miss Regt
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To: reaganaut1

Bend over, here it comes! Part 1


8 posted on 11/17/2009 12:50:35 PM PST by TexasRepublic (Socialism is a parasite that kills the host)
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To: kevinm13

James Pethokoukis (author of article at Reuters) is one of the good guys who understand economics and is conservative. He has been on Bill Bennett’s Morning in America a number of times and is well informed and explains economics in terms that the common man can understand.


9 posted on 11/17/2009 12:51:14 PM PST by kevinm13 (Tim Geithner is a tax cheat. Manmade "Global Warming" is a HOAX!)
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To: 17th Miss Regt

“assume no negative economic feedback impact from higher taxes”

A ridiculous assumption.


10 posted on 11/17/2009 12:51:14 PM PST by traderrob6
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To: 17th Miss Regt
This obama move will ruin the economy.

Prices on all products will spike, yielding even lower consumer spending.

2010 is going to be a dismal year for private corporations because the taxes are going to destroy any opportunities for them to expand or succeed.

11 posted on 11/17/2009 12:54:41 PM PST by GI Joe Fan (GI Joe represents Real American Heroes, not a bunch of globalist drones.)
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To: Lucky9teen

Exactly..without so much as a kiss, a cigarette or a promise of a second date.


12 posted on 11/17/2009 12:56:50 PM PST by gimme1ibertee ("In a time of universal deceit,telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act"-G. Orwell)
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To: reaganaut1

“Growing economy?” Let’s see, stock market up, dollar down, production flat or down, inventories getting depleted, streamlining about streamlined out, energy prices up. What am I missing here. The only growth I see in this formula is the growth of dollars it is going to take to buy something. The Obamao goons are going to increase taxes on diminished incomes, and call it good.


13 posted on 11/17/2009 12:58:01 PM PST by pallis
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To: traderrob6
“assume no negative economic feedback impact from higher taxes”

Actually, that's more of a BALD-FACED LIE.

It is nothing short of DECEPTION to push such bullsh!t.

Higher taxes to the companies are passed along to the consumer via higher prices at the cash register.

Higher prices at the cash register means fewer goods purchased.

Fewer goods purchased yields minimal to ZERO profit for the company, yielding subsequent layoffs, firings, closings, and potential bankruptcy for the companies.

14 posted on 11/17/2009 12:58:25 PM PST by GI Joe Fan (GI Joe represents Real American Heroes, not a bunch of globalist drones.)
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To: reaganaut1

well i don´t think it´s “really” important for the government (inofficial) from whom they get the tax money as long as they get it. fact is the state “needs” an amount of money (or else they will be bankrupt) and they will get it. the only political question is “from whom can we take most of this money without pi$$ing off too many voters in the next election”. so indeed tax brakes are a “joke” this means if you are on the winning end (we all hope to be on this side) someone else will pay the bill for you. because the bill has (and will be) to be paid.


15 posted on 11/17/2009 1:00:20 PM PST by darkside321
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To: TexasRepublic

I REFUSE TO BEND OVER ANYMORE.

I paid for Medicare 40 years; now the government wants to steal it.

I paid for SS for forty years; now the government wants me dead.

I paid more than my share of income tax for forty years; now the government wants it all.

NO MORE. I REFUSE.


16 posted on 11/17/2009 1:07:02 PM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: Lucky9teen

Yes we are.....


17 posted on 11/17/2009 1:10:59 PM PST by b4its2late (Before you can control a horse, you have to break it. Sound familiar?)
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To: GI Joe Fan
2010 is going to be a dismal year for private corporations because the taxes are going to destroy any opportunities for them to expand or succeed.

And Obama and the media will blame it all on Bush.

18 posted on 11/17/2009 1:28:09 PM PST by 17th Miss Regt
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To: avacado

Not only that but the lowest rate of taxation jumps back to where it was beofre the cuts which means anyone who pays taxes will see an increase at the worst possible time ever.


19 posted on 11/17/2009 1:32:44 PM PST by chris_bdba
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To: chris_bdba

Yep! I beleive the lowest marginal rate will jump from 10% to 15%. That’s a whopper chunk of money.


20 posted on 11/17/2009 1:41:46 PM PST by avacado
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To: avacado
When the 2003 tax cuts expire at the end of 2010 people making $50k/yr can kiss goodbye $2500 cash/yr. People making $100K/yr can kiss goodbye $4000 cash/yr.

Does this mean that the income you earn in 2010, come April 15th 2011, will be taxed at a higher rate than currently exists, or, 2011 income will be taxed at higher rates?

21 posted on 11/17/2009 1:45:55 PM PST by Go Gordon
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To: 17th Miss Regt
And Obama and the media will blame it all on Bush.

Hey, if Bush didn't lower the tax rates, they wouldn't have to be raised now. It is therefore Bush's fault.

22 posted on 11/17/2009 1:48:37 PM PST by Go Gordon
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To: Go Gordon

“Hey, if Bush didn’t lower the tax rates, they wouldn’t have to be raised now. It is therefore Bush’s fault. “
____________

Why did Bush write in a Sunset clause that called for these taxes to return to the higher rate? Never did understand this.


23 posted on 11/17/2009 1:50:30 PM PST by awake-n-angry
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To: awake-n-angry
Why did Bush write in a Sunset clause that called for these taxes to return to the higher rate? Never did understand this.

Bush didn't write the bill. Congress did. In order to get the democrats to allow the bill to come to the floor to be voted on, they required a sunset provision be in the bill. No sunset provision - no 60 votes for cloture - no tax cut bill.

24 posted on 11/17/2009 1:57:45 PM PST by Go Gordon
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To: Go Gordon

2011 income will have the higher rates. We are safe through 2010.


25 posted on 11/17/2009 1:57:52 PM PST by avacado
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To: avacado
"When the 2003 tax cuts expire at the end of 2010 people making $50k/yr can kiss goodbye $2500 cash/yr. People making $100K/yr can kiss goodbye $4000 cash/yr."

There is a tax calculator on the web that can tell you what your taxes will be.

Everything will revert back to the year 2000 tax schedules.

Using this 2000 tax schedule and what the wife and I will pay vs what we paid last year, we will be paying in a little shy of SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS MORE!!!

It stays a little lower up to an income of $99,999.

BUT, once you cross the magic number of $99,999 those "percentages owed" REALLY add up!!!!

Mmmmmm....Mmmmmm.....Mmmmmmm..... and THEN let's add some Obamacare payments........some Crap and Tax.......

26 posted on 11/17/2009 2:01:35 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: reaganaut1

Better understand - Obama wants to bring America to its knees: He has emasculated or put under his control: auto production, banking, lending, salaries, (soon) newspapers, insurance, and intends to get hold of the medical care system from womb to tomb including “big pharma”. Teachers, the elderly, brokers, broadcasters, bankers, lenders, are having their salaries set by HIM. (P)Just wait until his czars go to work carrying out The Thoughts of Obama full time. You may be in a re-education camp by then.


27 posted on 11/17/2009 2:02:32 PM PST by Rapscallion (Obama: Proof that Socialism and Islam are inferior to Capitalism and Christianity.)
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To: reaganaut1

I’m always amazed how democrats expect doing the exact opposite actions will result in the exact same results as the Republicans’ actions.


28 posted on 11/17/2009 2:02:50 PM PST by MNDude (The Republican Congress Economy--1995-2007)
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To: reaganaut1

They will let them expire. But the new evil rich threshold will be $150,000 not $250,000.

I hope 2010 elections go well. Please Lord.


29 posted on 11/17/2009 2:04:44 PM PST by GUNGAGALUNGA (Its in the hole............)
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To: musicman

Here’s the calculator: http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

Yeah, I only put up figures for single filers. For joint filers they get hit really hard.


30 posted on 11/17/2009 2:07:40 PM PST by avacado
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To: reaganaut1

Work under the table, get paid in cash, and give yourself a tax cut. Screw the government for a change.


31 posted on 11/17/2009 2:09:45 PM PST by july4thfreedomfoundation (A Jimmy Carter got us a Ronald Reagan.....a Barack Obama will get us a Sarah Palin)
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To: july4thfreedomfoundation
"Work under the table, get paid in cash, and give yourself a tax cut. Screw the government for a change."

Bingo.

A little jury nullification wouldn't hurt for those unfortunate souls who get snagged, too. LOL

32 posted on 11/17/2009 2:12:28 PM PST by Landru (Forget the pebble Grasshopper, just leave.)
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To: reaganaut1

If he lets them expire but people refuse to pay them and there is a tax revolt, then what?


33 posted on 11/17/2009 2:19:32 PM PST by mojitojoe (“Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.” - Vladimir Lenin)
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To: avacado

Only if they suck it up and comply and I’m sure they will.


34 posted on 11/17/2009 2:20:22 PM PST by mojitojoe (“Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.” - Vladimir Lenin)
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To: mojitojoe
"Only if they suck it up and comply and I’m sure they will."

Most people get their paychecks from their accounting department. The taxes are already confiscated by then.

35 posted on 11/17/2009 2:25:34 PM PST by avacado
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To: reaganaut1

Lots o’ luck. Most of us are having trouble paying our current taxes. Blood from a stone?


36 posted on 11/17/2009 2:39:34 PM PST by livius
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To: awake-n-angry
Why did Bush write in a Sunset clause that called for these taxes to return to the higher rate? Never did understand this.

You do understand that it is congress, and ultimately the conference committee, that writes legislation and not the President, right? Bush pushed for the tax cuts. He told GOP reps and senators what he wanted. They wrote the bill. There were a series of compromises to keep the dems in the senate from filibustering the bill and even to get the squishy "moderate" RINOS from the northeast to approve the legislation. The sunset clause was a democrat insistence. They had multiple chances to make the tax rate cuts permanent, but the dems blocked it every time.

37 posted on 11/17/2009 2:49:32 PM PST by VRWCmember
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To: reaganaut1

Do the math, a person in the 10% bracket will see a 50% tax increase,,,,’’change you can live with.’’


38 posted on 11/17/2009 2:59:39 PM PST by Waco (Stay as bootiful as ya are Karvile.')
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To: reaganaut1
The expiration schedule for the various tax cuts enacted by the Bush administration is complex. The Congressional Budget Office has put up a good (though quite wide) chart showing what ends when:

Table 1.


Tax Provisions Enacted in the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001, the Job Creation and Worker Assistance Act of 2002, and the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003, by Year, Pre-2001 Through 2011
Description Pre-EGTRRA 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
Tax Rates and Brackets
10 Percent Tax Bracket n.a. Single filers may have income of up to $6,000; joint filers, $12,000; and heads of household, $10,000 Single filers, up to $7,000; joint filers, $14,000; and heads of household $10,000; indexed in 2004 ($6,000;$12,000;$10,000) Single filers, up to $6,000; joint filers, $12,000; heads of household, $10,000 Single filers, up to $7,000; joint filers, $14,000; heads of household, $10,000 Upper and lower thresholds indexed Sunset*
15 Percent Tax Bracket Indexed Upper threshold indexed; lower threshold fixed by 10 percent bracket
Higher Tax Brackets (Percent) 39.6
36
31
28
39.1
35.5
30.5
27.5
38.6
35
30
27
35 (38.6)
33 (35)
28 (30)
25 (27)
35 (37.6)
33 (34)
28 (29)
25 (26)
35
33
28
25
Sunset*
Rate on Capital Gains 10 percent for taxpayers in the 15 percent bracket or below; 20 percent for other taxpayers After May 6, 2003, 5 percent for taxpayers in the 15 percent bracket or below--and 0 in 2008; 15 percent for other taxpayers (10 percent; 20 percent) Sunset*
Rate on Dividends Ordinary rates 5 percent for taxpayers in the 15 percent bracket or below--and 0 in 2008; 15 percent for other taxpayers (Ordinary rates) Sunset*
Limitations on Itemized Deductions and Personal Exemptions for High-Income Filers
Change in Limitations No change Limits reduced by one-third Limits reduced by two-thirds No limits Sunset*
Child Credit and Dependent Care Credit
Child Credit $500, with limited refundability $600 $1,000 ($600) $700 $800 $1,000 Sunset*
Refundable up to 10 percent of earned income above $10,000; threshold indexed after 2001 Refundable up to 15 percent of earned income above $10,000; threshold indexed after 2001
Dependent Care Credit Maximum expenditure eligible for credit = $2,400 for one child and $4,800 for two or more; maximum credit = 20 percent to 30 percent of expenditures Maximum of $3,000 of eligible expenses for one child; $6,000 for two or more children
Maximum credit of 35 percent, phasing down to 20 percent beginning at $15,000 in adjusted gross income
Sunset*
Relief from Marriage Penalties
Standard Deduction for Joint Filers Standard deduction for joint filers = 167 percent of that for single filers 200 percent of that for single filers (167 percent) 174 percent of that for single filers 184 percent of that for single filers 187 percent of that for single filers 190 percent of that for single filers 200 percent of that for single filers Sunset*
15 Percent Bracket for Joint Filers Upper threshold of bracket for those who are married filing jointly = 167 percent of the top of the bracket for single filers 200 percent of that for single filers (167 percent) 180 percent of that for single filers 187 percent of that for single filers 193 percent of that for single filers 200 percent of that for single filers Sunset*
Earned Income Credit for Joint Filers Level of income at which the earned income credit starts to phase out is indexed; end of phaseout depends on number of children Starting point and ending point of phaseout are increased by $1,000 Starting point and ending point of phaseout are increased by $2,000 Starting point and ending point are increased by $3,000 Starting point and ending point are increased by $3,000; indexed from 2008 Sunset*
Relief from the Alternative Minimum Tax
Exemption for the Alternative Minimum Tax $33,750 for single filers; $45,000 for joint filers $35,750 for single filers; $49,000 for joint filers $40,250 for single filers; $58,000 for joint filers ($35,750; $49,000) Sunset*
Partial Expensing of Investment in Qualified Property
Depreciation Deduction of Basis of Qualified Property No additional depreciation 30 percent of basis deductible in first year (After September 10, 2001) 50 percent of basis deductible in first year Sunset*

Source: Congressional Budget Office based on Joint Committee on Taxation, Summary of Provisions Contained in the Conference Agreement for H.R. 1836, The Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001, JCX-50-01 (May 26, 2001); Summary of P.L. 107-147, The Job Creation and Worker Assistance Act of 2002, JCX-22-02 (March 22, 2002); and Summary of Conference Agreement on H.R. 2, The Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003, JCX-54-03 (May 22, 2003).

Notes: EGTRAA = Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001; n.a. = not applicable.

Lightly shaded area indicates a change made by the Job Creation and Worker Assistance Act of 2002.

Darkly shaded areas indicate changes made by the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003.

Parenthetical values in those areas are those set by EGTRRA.

* = Provision returns to pre-EGTRRA levels.

That's found at http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=5746&type=0&sequence=1.

39 posted on 11/17/2009 4:00:50 PM PST by snowsislander
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To: traderrob6

totally agree. If raising taxes has no impact on the economy or anything else except growing the money to the government, heck, just raise it to 100% and get it over with - afterall, I’m that will have no impact either.

PS - just like when I go to the range with my .45, the rounds make no impact on the target or anywhere else - guess they just vaporize when leaving the barrel /sarc


40 posted on 11/17/2009 4:01:13 PM PST by rigelkentaurus
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To: musicman

“BUT, once you cross the magic number of $99,999 those “percentages owed” REALLY add up!!!!”

Now here’s the kicker: government actions are inflating the dollar and before long everyone that works will make over $99,999.00. Inflation will kick all of us into a higher tax bracket. And course, tax exceptions will be enacted to protect the “poor” Obamatrons, to preserve the Demoncrat voting base.


41 posted on 11/18/2009 7:53:31 AM PST by TexasRepublic (Socialism is a parasite that kills the host)
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To: Go Gordon

“Bush didn’t write the bill. Congress did. In order to get the democrats to allow the bill to come to the floor to be voted on, they required a sunset provision be in the bill. No sunset provision - no 60 votes for cloture - no tax cut bill. “
_________

Can’t possibly be the case. The House writes tax legislation and then sends it to Senate. The 60 vote threshhold is only in the Senate. Do you have a link or source? Besides when the Bush tax bill passed the GOP had both house and senate.


42 posted on 11/19/2009 4:00:05 AM PST by awake-n-angry
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To: reaganaut1
you can calculator your pre vs post obama tax rate at income tax calculator
43 posted on 11/26/2009 7:41:40 PM PST by incometaxcalculator
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