Skip to comments.Rapid Rifting in Ethiopia Challenges Evolutionary Model
Posted on 11/18/2009 9:13:37 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
Volcanic activity in 2005 accompanied the formation of a deep, wide rift in Ethiopia on part of the 4,000-mile-long north-to-south trending Great Rift Valley fault. Studies show that the injection of mantle material that unzipped the earth along the fault operated the same way as similar material does in less-accessible undersea rifts. Scientists knew that rifts were formed in this manner, but the suddenness of this ones formation astonished them...
(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...
You can’t drawn any conclusions from volcanic activity in 2005. That was a unique event, caused by President Bush.
It’s like I keep saying — we live in a divided world.
Just where is this story consistent with the seven day Biblical story?
LOL...they are so predictable :o)
I believe it was speaking to the time of the great flood. Lots of plate activity during that time. (my interpretation)
Evolution = any science that contradicts a creationist.
Astronomy = evolution when it speaks of billions of years, and hundreds of millions of years for light to reach us, and millions of years ages for stars, etc.
Geology = evolution when it speaks of the millions of years it takes to move continents that used to connect, when it speaks of features that would take millions of years to form, etc.
Radiometric dating = evolution.
Anthropology = evolution.
Gravity and Heliocentrism = evolution to our resident Geocentric Creationst FReepers.
Pretty much any science that doesn't support a six thousand or so year old Earth/ Universe is “evolution”; and that would be ALL of science that deals in any way with how old things are, or how they got to be the way they are.
Mutually independent lines of evidence having nothing to do with biological evolution? All “evolution” if it contradicts the weak of faith apologists who insist that “science must bend the knee” to their interpretation.
Thrilled by the prospect of absorbing more unparallelled scholarship from Brian Thomas MS* (it’s been a day since his last exposition of brilliance, and I was experiencing withdrawal), I quickly clicked on the ICR link and prepared to spend the rest of my day basking in the glory of the man’s genius. However, my daily fix of BTMS* was satisfied in but a minute, as the article consisted of only 482 words cleverly arranged among 7 paragraphs.
Despite the parsimony of verbiage (No! BECAUSE of it!), BTMS* still demonstrated conclusively that “...the observations fit the Catastrophic Plate Tectonics model, and that model fits in a biblically-consistent history for the earth.”
The man is amazing. In fewer words than a lesser scientist would write in but the abstract to a much longer article containing unnecessary data, he has once again demonstrated that the earth is a very young place. Our faith in young earth creation can only be further supported.
Did I mention that he even provided 3 references? Not peer-reviewed? Not hardly!
Please allow me to quote the obligatory last line from the article:
“See? Just like it says in Genesis! The End!”
How about the lying title?
Rapid Rifting in Ethiopia Challenges Evolutionary Model
What exactly does the theory of evolution say about the rifting process? Nothing? Don't let that get int he way, Brian.
Their observations in Ethiopias Afar Desert directly challenge the outdated uniformitarian interpretation of earth processes, which holds that slow and gradual processes formed earths features.
False conclusion, Brian. Lumping all of Earth's geological features in one basket is sooooo scientific of you. Kinda like seeing flood waters quickly erode a valley in crumbly soil and saying "See, that's how the Grand Canyon coudl be quickly formed.
The rapidity with which crustal movements are now known to occur lend even more credibility to the Catastrophic Plate Tectonics model proposed by researcher John Baumgardner.
No, it doesn't.
It demonstrates numerically how earths ocean plates moved rapidly across the earths surface and were recycled into the earth's interior in mere months, rather than the millions of years assumed in the evolutionary model.
I am wholly unaware of an evolutionary model concerning plate techtonics. DO TELL...
accumulating evidence of rapid rifting―huge seams that open in perhaps days―contradicts the uniformitarian gradualism popularized by geologist Charles Lyell and naturalist Charles Darwin 150 years ago and still held by many modern geologists.
...because one specific thing may happen quickly does not mean that other entirely different things do as well. Two forces moving land in opposite directions can move faster with less force than two forces moving land towards each other. 2 cars parked tail to tail, driving away from each other do so easily and quickly. 2 cars parked nose-nose driving into each other well, you either get it or you don't.
You are referring, of course, to the younger Dryas event. I don’t know why Bible believers think that theirs is the only account of a huge flood to come down to us from ancient history. The flood myth is part of a group of myths that describe the end of the world from peoples all over the world in the thousands. We read of flood and destruction in Mayan records, Egyptian records, Chinese and Hindu stories, Icelandic and Nordic sagas, Babylonian epics, Native American lore, polynesian, Eskimos and Mongols, the list is endless. This is the most often told tale on the planet and thousands of ancient observers, bards and scribes didn’t just all make up the same story with the same plot line and cast of characters.
Exactly, these earth is 6000 year old types just can’t be reasoned with by any form of logic or evidence. The great rift valley of Africa has been known for at least the last 100 years, recent upheavals have caused the break to move faster than a snales pace but 5.7 CM in a month. For the record, that’s about 2.25 inches.
While its certainly much faster than presumed by certain theories, a plate moving at 27 inches a year. The width of the pacific ocean at its widest point is 12,300 miles... So lets do some math shall we?
Assume the trench is in the middle of the ocean, its not, but lets just say it is... that 6,150 miles before the plate roughly hits a contintental shelf.
Now, lets take this amazing 27 inches per year and see how long it would take to run that distance shall we?
2.25’ per year, to cover a distance of 6150 miles or (6150 x 5280 feet) 32472000 feet. So at 2.25 feet per year, that distance is covered in 14,432,000 years!
So even at this astounding speed, its still roughly 14 and a half million years before the distance has been covered by plate movement.
Its just rediculous to claim this stuff is or has happened in months based on any analysis of any known evidence.
Sites like ICR just make me laugh, if any new evidence is found that puts a current theory into question they immediately take that evidence and try to spin it as proof of some absolute absurdity, even with the new evidence. Obviously new observations cause re-evalutions of assumptions and conclusions, but to claim that techtonic plates are covering thousands of miles in months is just laughable.
I personally have no doubt God created the universe and all within it, but what passes for “Creationist Science” meets neither of the words they use to describe themselves.
"We three kings, who traveled Afar..."
Thank you for the heads up as to how Creationists “see” things.
Might we call it an ostrich syndrome?
Also known as the Hydroplate Theory. From my links page “Center for Scientific Creation - In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood”
Shhhhh.....those were pagan stories and not from 'true' Christians, so they don't count.
The only good news? “Relatively soon” in geological terms can be a very, very long time. Unless 2012 really does bring us to the end of time!
Talk about people drifting a part! This rift is opening up quicker then the Incredible Hulk's shirt seams.
However there is a bright side to this: This would be a good time to buy beach front property while it's cheap.
And it isn't just how they “see” things, it is, by their own words, how they describe them.
The Big Bang, thought by many Christians to be evidentiary support for the Biblical concept of the universe having an actual physical beginning (many thought the universe eternal), has been described by Creationists as “evolutionary Big Bang theory”, because it contradicts their timeline. I don't remember Astronomers factoring in Biological evolution through natural selection of genetic variation into their tabulations; but there you have it.
More creat BS. The San Andreas Fault in the 1906 quake. moved about 10 feet.
None of this is new. More crap.
Isn’t uniformitarianism declaring that all changes occur in a slow uniform pace? Whatever we see happening now can be extrapolated for all periods of time, right?!
Not based in reality but that’s OK since it fits w/ the evolutionary paradigm.
You left out New Orleans.
Since we are dealing in the historical sciences, we are also dealing with multiple competing hypothesis. As such, we now know that massive trenches can open up in a geologic blink of an eye; which, as the article points out, weakens the uniformitarian gradualism of Charles Lyll, and stengthens the catastrophic plate tectonics model (based, as it is, on a young, universal flood model).
Scientists seem to be easily astonished and astonished by an awful lot.
I guess that means that they don't know as much as they think they do.
Nobody said it did. What is showed is that you can't count on everything happening the way it was once thought to.
It casts doubt on previously held assumptions, making them less tenable for support of any theory.
Well, interesting that they all have Flood accounts.
It could be because they are all based on the same event.
Interesting that you take an evos word for how creationists *see* things.
Do you always go by rumor and word of mouth?
Or did you ever think of checking with creationists themselves instead of accepting a biased take on something?
Nope, lets assume we have periods that are 10 times that amount and periods that are 1/10th that amount, hell even 100 times that amount.. you still don’t get to 6000 years, its laughable. My statements didn’t require absolute uniformity, they pointed out that if you had averaged movements of the highest amounts ever seen, its still 14+ MILLION YEARS.. some years you might get many times this amount of movement and other years likely fractions of it... but if you use the higest ever recorded to date as the average, you still get 14 Million+ years. Even by a factor of 10 you are at 1.4 Million years, hell a factor of 100, is still 140,000 years.. there is no way you get to the foolish earth is 6000 years old nonsense.
I’m using the largest movement recorded to date and extrapolating it out.. if you want to talk uniformity, you’d have to average that 2.25 inches per month against all the months over the last 100+ years of directly observable data, and millions of years of extrapolated data, we have data on the rift valley movements of micrometers per year of exact and estimates. None show any sort of plate movement anywhere on the earth that measures anywhwere close to 100 miles + per month.
Hell even if we have movements 10 or 100 times the largest amount recorded for periods of time, you still can’t get plates moving from rift to subduction over thousands of miles in MONTHS.. its laughable.
I’m actually given your argument the benefit of the doubt by using this first observed highest ever recording the average over time. When in reality the movement over time on average has been much much smaller than this when averaged out.
Plates don’t move thousands of miles in months, lets imagine if we will the forces along the subduction zone if a plate was SUBDUCTING at a rate of 100 miles per month.. which is the rate the theory you are trying to defend would require to move from rift to subduction in MONTHS even over the shortest distances between undersea rifts and continental plates.
Sorry, but there is no way you get to a few thousand year old earth by any reasonable analysis of any known observable facts.
I'd classify Evolution as a scientific account of a system of natural phenomena; aka "history."
Creationism, however, is neither science or history; it is a doctrine without allowance for skeptical or scientific questioning.
“The new study, published in the latest issue of Geophysical Research Letters, suggests that the highly active volcanic boundaries along the edges of tectonic ocean plates may suddenly break apart in large sections, instead of little by little as has been predominantly believed........
Seafloor ridges are made up of sections, each of which can be hundreds of miles long. Because of this study, we now know that each one of those segments can tear open in a just a few days.”
It seems that though the normal opening up of areas like the Great Rift Valley are rather slow, volcanic activity can speed up the process over a great distance to just days.
So calculating the pace of a tortoise is fine unless he is punted some distance along every so often.
Utter nonsense. This is the kind of stuff that makes Bible believers (like me) seem foolish.
Thanks for the ping!
Darwin wrote to Lyell in excitement of witnessing a massive earthquake in Chile and seeing the ground rise over 10 feet instantly as evidence of uniformitarianism. This is what uniformitarianism predicts known forces, like earthquakes, moving the earth little by little, 10-20 feet at times. This rift is about 20 feet at its widest. If it were, say, 20 miles wide, or 200 miles, than maybe catastrophists would have a point.
Brian Thomas MS* uses that phrase to prop up something it does not prop up....just like everything else he does and concludes from nonsense. Just because one thing in one location at one time did something more than expected means nothing concerning what is expected and observed in all other locations.
Time to feed the gigantosaurus...
It is NOT consistent with the Bible 'His-story', because Genesis 1:1-2 are not dated. But took place in what Peter calls the 'time' that WAS.
Maybe they think you look foolish simply because you’re a Christian. Every think of that?
I’m not a Christian. So who seems foolish?
Well from the hydroplate theory [see link provided in post #19 earlier] Dr. Walt Brown Ph.D. extrapolates that the tectonic plates would have moved as fast as 45mph initially after the flood waters began to recede significantly. This will allow you to travel your 6,000 ‘Pacific Ocean’ miles in less than a week. ymmv. :’)
==Pretty much any science that doesn’t support a six thousand or so year old Earth/ Universe is evolution; and that would be ALL of science that deals in any way with how old things are, or how they got to be the way they are.
Hmmm...then how do you explain the following, dreamer? It would appear that your fellow evos are calling the data from all the scientific disciplines you mentioned above “evolution” as well. Imagine that.
And this part is just funny,
Now, accumulating evidence of rapid rifting―huge seams that open in perhaps days―contradicts the uniformitarian gradualism popularized by geologist Charles Lyell and naturalist Charles Darwin 150 years ago and still held by many modern geologists.
I suppose the author has a copy of Darwin's, "On the Origin of Continents" as evidence.
Also geology is not a sub-discipline of biology.
Indeed, there is so much catastrophism being uncovered these days, one wonders what uniformitarianism even means any more.
LOL...pretty soon the evos will probably be claiming that geological processes are uniformly catastrophic (hehe :o)
Second sentence okay, first sentence wrong. We don't see "all changes occur in a slow uniform pace" now, so there's no reason to assume they did in the past. There were probably 35-mile-long cracks that opened a couple of inches in a matter of days 10 thousand, ten million, or a hundred million years ago. That really doesn't get you any closer to thousands-of-mile-long cracks opening at a rate of meters per second, like the "surfing continents" idea requires.