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Rapid Rifting in Ethiopia Challenges Evolutionary Model
ICR News ^ | Brian Thomas, M.S.

Posted on 11/18/2009 9:13:37 AM PST by GodGunsGuts

Volcanic activity in 2005 accompanied the formation of a deep, wide rift in Ethiopia on part of the 4,000-mile-long north-to-south trending Great Rift Valley fault. Studies show that the injection of mantle material that “unzipped” the earth along the fault operated the same way as similar material does in less-accessible undersea rifts. Scientists knew that rifts were formed in this manner, but the suddenness of this one’s formation astonished them...

(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: africa; belongsinreligion; bible; catastrophism; catholic; christian; christianity; christianright; creation; ethiopia; evolution; evolutionnotscience; genesis; geology; god; godsgravesglyphs; intelligentdesign; judaism; notasciencetopic; propellerbeanie; religiousright; science; spammer
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1 posted on 11/18/2009 9:13:37 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

You can’t drawn any conclusions from volcanic activity in 2005. That was a unique event, caused by President Bush.


2 posted on 11/18/2009 9:19:08 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: metmom; DaveLoneRanger; editor-surveyor; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; MrB; GourmetDan; Fichori; ...

Ping!


3 posted on 11/18/2009 9:24:33 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

It’s like I keep saying — we live in a divided world.


4 posted on 11/18/2009 9:26:17 AM PST by Mad_Tom_Rackham (It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government -- Thomas Payne)
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To: Verginius Rufus
"It demonstrates numerically how earth’s ocean plates moved rapidly across the earth’s surface and were recycled into the earth's interior in mere months, rather than the millions of years assumed in the evolutionary model."

Ha-ha

5 posted on 11/18/2009 9:29:43 AM PST by VanShuyten ("a shadow...draped nobly in the folds of a gorgeous eloquence.")
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To: GodGunsGuts
Now, accumulating evidence of rapid rifting―huge seams that open in perhaps days―contradicts the uniformitarian gradualism popularized by geologist Charles Lyell and naturalist Charles Darwin 150 years ago and still held by many modern geologists. In contrast, the observations fit the Catastrophic Plate Tectonics model, and that model fits in a biblically-consistent history for the earth.

Just where is this story consistent with the seven day Biblical story?

6 posted on 11/18/2009 9:32:54 AM PST by OldNavyVet
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To: GodGunsGuts
And the snappers & snarlers will be appearing in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .
7 posted on 11/18/2009 9:34:23 AM PST by YHAOS
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To: GodGunsGuts

Bush’s fault.


8 posted on 11/18/2009 9:37:16 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (There are only two REAL conservatives in America - myself, and my chosen Presidential candidate)
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To: YHAOS

LOL...they are so predictable :o)


9 posted on 11/18/2009 9:37:21 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: OldNavyVet

I believe it was speaking to the time of the great flood. Lots of plate activity during that time. (my interpretation)


10 posted on 11/18/2009 9:41:47 AM PST by MGBGUN (Freedom is not free.)
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To: OldNavyVet
When is Geology evolution? When, as with many other independent lines of evidence, it contradicts a young earth creationists timeline.

Evolution = any science that contradicts a creationist.

Astronomy = evolution when it speaks of billions of years, and hundreds of millions of years for light to reach us, and millions of years ages for stars, etc.

Geology = evolution when it speaks of the millions of years it takes to move continents that used to connect, when it speaks of features that would take millions of years to form, etc.

Radiometric dating = evolution.

Anthropology = evolution.

Gravity and Heliocentrism = evolution to our resident Geocentric Creationst FReepers.

Pretty much any science that doesn't support a six thousand or so year old Earth/ Universe is “evolution”; and that would be ALL of science that deals in any way with how old things are, or how they got to be the way they are.

Mutually independent lines of evidence having nothing to do with biological evolution? All “evolution” if it contradicts the weak of faith apologists who insist that “science must bend the knee” to their interpretation.

11 posted on 11/18/2009 9:44:12 AM PST by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: SunkenCiv
This thread's already going gnarly, but may work for a catastophism ping.
12 posted on 11/18/2009 9:47:32 AM PST by colorado tanker (What's it all about, Barrrrry? Is it just for the power, you live?)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thrilled by the prospect of absorbing more unparallelled scholarship from Brian Thomas MS* (it’s been a day since his last exposition of brilliance, and I was experiencing withdrawal), I quickly clicked on the ICR link and prepared to spend the rest of my day basking in the glory of the man’s genius. However, my daily fix of BTMS* was satisfied in but a minute, as the article consisted of only 482 words cleverly arranged among 7 paragraphs.

Despite the parsimony of verbiage (No! BECAUSE of it!), BTMS* still demonstrated conclusively that “...the observations fit the Catastrophic Plate Tectonics model, and that model fits in a biblically-consistent history for the earth.”

The man is amazing. In fewer words than a lesser scientist would write in but the abstract to a much longer article containing unnecessary data, he has once again demonstrated that the earth is a very young place. Our faith in young earth creation can only be further supported.

Did I mention that he even provided 3 references? Not peer-reviewed? Not hardly!

Please allow me to quote the obligatory last line from the article:

“See? Just like it says in Genesis! The End!”


13 posted on 11/18/2009 9:48:01 AM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Bwwwaaaaaahahahahaha Lyin' Brian Thomas MS* strikes again...

How about the lying title?

Rapid Rifting in Ethiopia Challenges Evolutionary Model

What exactly does the theory of evolution say about the rifting process? Nothing? Don't let that get int he way, Brian.

Their observations in Ethiopia’s Afar Desert directly challenge the outdated uniformitarian interpretation of earth processes, which holds that slow and gradual processes formed earth’s features.

False conclusion, Brian. Lumping all of Earth's geological features in one basket is sooooo scientific of you. Kinda like seeing flood waters quickly erode a valley in crumbly soil and saying "See, that's how the Grand Canyon coudl be quickly formed.

The rapidity with which crustal movements are now known to occur lend even more credibility to the Catastrophic Plate Tectonics model proposed by researcher John Baumgardner.

No, it doesn't.

It demonstrates numerically how earth’s ocean plates moved rapidly across the earth’s surface and were recycled into the earth's interior in mere months, rather than the millions of years assumed in the evolutionary model.

I am wholly unaware of an evolutionary model concerning plate techtonics. DO TELL...

accumulating evidence of rapid rifting―huge seams that open in perhaps days―contradicts the uniformitarian gradualism popularized by geologist Charles Lyell and naturalist Charles Darwin 150 years ago and still held by many modern geologists.

...because one specific thing may happen quickly does not mean that other entirely different things do as well. Two forces moving land in opposite directions can move faster with less force than two forces moving land towards each other. 2 cars parked tail to tail, driving away from each other do so easily and quickly. 2 cars parked nose-nose driving into each other well, you either get it or you don't.

14 posted on 11/18/2009 9:51:09 AM PST by ElectricStrawberry (Didja know that Man walked with 100+ species of large meat eating dinos within the last 4,351 years?)
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To: MGBGUN

You are referring, of course, to the younger Dryas event. I don’t know why Bible believers think that theirs is the only account of a huge flood to come down to us from ancient history. The flood myth is part of a group of myths that describe the end of the world from peoples all over the world in the thousands. We read of flood and destruction in Mayan records, Egyptian records, Chinese and Hindu stories, Icelandic and Nordic sagas, Babylonian epics, Native American lore, polynesian, Eskimos and Mongols, the list is endless. This is the most often told tale on the planet and thousands of ancient observers, bards and scribes didn’t just all make up the same story with the same plot line and cast of characters.

Younger Dryas.


15 posted on 11/18/2009 9:53:18 AM PST by Yollopoliuhqui (consciousness is a heads up display)
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To: VanShuyten

Exactly, these earth is 6000 year old types just can’t be reasoned with by any form of logic or evidence. The great rift valley of Africa has been known for at least the last 100 years, recent upheavals have caused the break to move faster than a snales pace but 5.7 CM in a month. For the record, that’s about 2.25 inches.

While its certainly much faster than presumed by certain theories, a plate moving at 27 inches a year. The width of the pacific ocean at its widest point is 12,300 miles... So lets do some math shall we?

Assume the trench is in the middle of the ocean, its not, but lets just say it is... that 6,150 miles before the plate roughly hits a contintental shelf.

Now, lets take this amazing 27 inches per year and see how long it would take to run that distance shall we?

2.25’ per year, to cover a distance of 6150 miles or (6150 x 5280 feet) 32472000 feet. So at 2.25 feet per year, that distance is covered in 14,432,000 years!

So even at this astounding speed, its still roughly 14 and a half million years before the distance has been covered by plate movement.

Its just rediculous to claim this stuff is or has happened in months based on any analysis of any known evidence.

Sites like ICR just make me laugh, if any new evidence is found that puts a current theory into question they immediately take that evidence and try to spin it as proof of some absolute absurdity, even with the new evidence. Obviously new observations cause re-evalutions of assumptions and conclusions, but to claim that techtonic plates are covering thousands of miles in months is just laughable.

I personally have no doubt God created the universe and all within it, but what passes for “Creationist Science” meets neither of the words they use to describe themselves.


16 posted on 11/18/2009 9:53:50 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: ElectricStrawberry
Well, the reference to Ethiopia's Afar Desert gets us back to the Bible. The magi traveled through there on the way to Bethlehem.

"We three kings, who traveled Afar..."

17 posted on 11/18/2009 9:58:04 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: allmendream

Thank you for the heads up as to how Creationists “see” things.

Might we call it an ostrich syndrome?


18 posted on 11/18/2009 9:59:18 AM PST by OldNavyVet (Don't drink the Koolaid.)
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To: OldNavyVet

Also known as the Hydroplate Theory. From my links page “Center for Scientific Creation - In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood”

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/IntheBeginningTOC.html


19 posted on 11/18/2009 9:59:46 AM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: Yollopoliuhqui
We read of flood and destruction in Mayan records, Egyptian records, Chinese and Hindu stories, Icelandic and Nordic sagas, Babylonian epics, Native American lore, polynesian, Eskimos and Mongols, the list is endless.

Shhhhh.....those were pagan stories and not from 'true' Christians, so they don't count.

20 posted on 11/18/2009 10:00:29 AM PST by Pistolshot (Brevity: Saying a lot, while saying very little.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Of course there's a simple explanation for this: the expanding earth hypothesis (see http://www.expanding-earth.org/, for example). The only problem with that theory is that, if true, it means that the earth will explode relatively soon. As did the protoplanets that once orbited between Mars and Jupiter, and the even more ancient one beyond Neptune (see Dr. Tom VanFlandern's MetaResearch site for more compelling information on the Exploding Planet Hypothesis).

The only good news? “Relatively soon” in geological terms can be a very, very long time. Unless 2012 really does bring us to the end of time!

Booga booga.

21 posted on 11/18/2009 10:01:04 AM PST by earglasses (I was blind, and now I hear...)
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To: GodGunsGuts
I can only imagine the effects of the sudden weight of water had upon various parts of the earth though Ps. 104:8 briefly describes it. But here is a rift opening up daily it seems.

Talk about people drifting a part! This rift is opening up quicker then the Incredible Hulk's shirt seams.

However there is a bright side to this: This would be a good time to buy beach front property while it's cheap.

22 posted on 11/18/2009 10:02:16 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: OldNavyVet
Other than that, contrary to popular belief, ostriches do NOT bury their heads in the dirt in order to not see things they do not want to see.

And it isn't just how they “see” things, it is, by their own words, how they describe them.

The Big Bang, thought by many Christians to be evidentiary support for the Biblical concept of the universe having an actual physical beginning (many thought the universe eternal), has been described by Creationists as “evolutionary Big Bang theory”, because it contradicts their timeline. I don't remember Astronomers factoring in Biological evolution through natural selection of genetic variation into their tabulations; but there you have it.

23 posted on 11/18/2009 10:05:29 AM PST by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: GodGunsGuts

More creat BS. The San Andreas Fault in the 1906 quake. moved about 10 feet.

None of this is new. More crap.


24 posted on 11/18/2009 10:06:31 AM PST by Wacka
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To: HamiltonJay

Isn’t uniformitarianism declaring that all changes occur in a slow uniform pace? Whatever we see happening now can be extrapolated for all periods of time, right?!

Not based in reality but that’s OK since it fits w/ the evolutionary paradigm.


25 posted on 11/18/2009 10:12:45 AM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: Pistolshot
We read of flood and destruction in Mayan records, Egyptian records, Chinese and Hindu stories, Icelandic and Nordic sagas, Babylonian epics, Native American lore, polynesian, Eskimos and Mongols, the list is endless.

You left out New Orleans.

26 posted on 11/18/2009 10:15:42 AM PST by OldNavyVet (Don't drink the Koolaid.)
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To: OldNavyVet

Since we are dealing in the historical sciences, we are also dealing with multiple competing hypothesis. As such, we now know that massive trenches can open up in a geologic blink of an eye; which, as the article points out, weakens the uniformitarian gradualism of Charles Lyll, and stengthens the catastrophic plate tectonics model (based, as it is, on a young, universal flood model).


27 posted on 11/18/2009 10:15:49 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Scientists knew that rifts were formed in this manner, but the suddenness of this one’s formation astonished them...

Scientists seem to be easily astonished and astonished by an awful lot.

I guess that means that they don't know as much as they think they do.

28 posted on 11/18/2009 10:41:40 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: ElectricStrawberry
...because one specific thing may happen quickly does not mean that other entirely different things do as well.

Nobody said it did. What is showed is that you can't count on everything happening the way it was once thought to.

It casts doubt on previously held assumptions, making them less tenable for support of any theory.

29 posted on 11/18/2009 10:51:19 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Yollopoliuhqui

Well, interesting that they all have Flood accounts.

It could be because they are all based on the same event.


30 posted on 11/18/2009 10:52:39 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!


31 posted on 11/18/2009 10:53:34 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: OldNavyVet

Interesting that you take an evos word for how creationists *see* things.

Do you always go by rumor and word of mouth?

Or did you ever think of checking with creationists themselves instead of accepting a biased take on something?


32 posted on 11/18/2009 10:54:24 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: BrandtMichaels

Nope, lets assume we have periods that are 10 times that amount and periods that are 1/10th that amount, hell even 100 times that amount.. you still don’t get to 6000 years, its laughable. My statements didn’t require absolute uniformity, they pointed out that if you had averaged movements of the highest amounts ever seen, its still 14+ MILLION YEARS.. some years you might get many times this amount of movement and other years likely fractions of it... but if you use the higest ever recorded to date as the average, you still get 14 Million+ years. Even by a factor of 10 you are at 1.4 Million years, hell a factor of 100, is still 140,000 years.. there is no way you get to the foolish earth is 6000 years old nonsense.

I’m using the largest movement recorded to date and extrapolating it out.. if you want to talk uniformity, you’d have to average that 2.25 inches per month against all the months over the last 100+ years of directly observable data, and millions of years of extrapolated data, we have data on the rift valley movements of micrometers per year of exact and estimates. None show any sort of plate movement anywhere on the earth that measures anywhwere close to 100 miles + per month.

Hell even if we have movements 10 or 100 times the largest amount recorded for periods of time, you still can’t get plates moving from rift to subduction over thousands of miles in MONTHS.. its laughable.

I’m actually given your argument the benefit of the doubt by using this first observed highest ever recording the average over time. When in reality the movement over time on average has been much much smaller than this when averaged out.

Plates don’t move thousands of miles in months, lets imagine if we will the forces along the subduction zone if a plate was SUBDUCTING at a rate of 100 miles per month.. which is the rate the theory you are trying to defend would require to move from rift to subduction in MONTHS even over the shortest distances between undersea rifts and continental plates.

Sorry, but there is no way you get to a few thousand year old earth by any reasonable analysis of any known observable facts.


33 posted on 11/18/2009 10:54:37 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: GodGunsGuts
Since we are dealing in the historical sciences

I'd classify Evolution as a scientific account of a system of natural phenomena; aka "history."

Creationism, however, is neither science or history; it is a doctrine without allowance for skeptical or scientific questioning.

34 posted on 11/18/2009 10:58:20 AM PST by OldNavyVet (Don't drink the Koolaid.)
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To: HamiltonJay
Whatever ideas one has has about the age of the earth, this rift that formed is unlike anything expected by the researchers. And it has been much faster than 27 inches a year. Here are some of the comments from the PsyOrg, 11/2/09 article:

“The new study, published in the latest issue of Geophysical Research Letters, suggests that the highly active volcanic boundaries along the edges of tectonic ocean plates may suddenly break apart in large sections, instead of little by little as has been predominantly believed........

Seafloor ridges are made up of sections, each of which can be hundreds of miles long. Because of this study, we now know that each one of those segments can tear open in a just a few days.”

It seems that though the normal opening up of areas like the Great Rift Valley are rather slow, volcanic activity can speed up the process over a great distance to just days.

So calculating the pace of a tortoise is fine unless he is punted some distance along every so often.

35 posted on 11/18/2009 10:58:50 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: HamiltonJay
Sorry, but there is no way you get to a few thousand year old earth by any reasonable analysis of any known observable facts. That won't stop them. Who says they analyze or even know how to analyze anything? Their answer: God did it! The bible told me so!
36 posted on 11/18/2009 11:00:32 AM PST by Wacka
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To: HamiltonJay
Sorry, but there is no way you get to a few thousand year old earth by any reasonable analysis of any known observable facts. That won't stop them. Who says they analyze or even know how to analyze anything? Their answer: God did it! The bible told me so!
37 posted on 11/18/2009 11:00:50 AM PST by Wacka
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To: GodGunsGuts
It demonstrates numerically how earth’s ocean plates moved rapidly across the earth’s surface and were recycled into the earth's interior in mere months, rather than the millions of years assumed in the evolutionary model.

Utter nonsense. This is the kind of stuff that makes Bible believers (like me) seem foolish.

38 posted on 11/18/2009 11:11:15 AM PST by onedoug
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for the ping!


39 posted on 11/18/2009 11:12:47 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: GodGunsGuts; BrandtMichaels

Darwin wrote to Lyell in excitement of witnessing a massive earthquake in Chile and seeing the ground rise over 10 feet instantly – as evidence of uniformitarianism. This is what uniformitarianism predicts – known forces, like earthquakes, moving the earth little by little, 10-20 feet at times. This rift is about 20 feet at its widest. If it were, say, 20 miles wide, or 200 miles, than maybe ‘catastrophists’ would have a point.


40 posted on 11/18/2009 11:14:30 AM PST by goodusername
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To: metmom

Brian Thomas MS* uses that phrase to prop up something it does not prop up....just like everything else he does and concludes from nonsense. Just because one thing in one location at one time did something more than expected means nothing concerning what is expected and observed in all other locations.

Time to feed the gigantosaurus...


41 posted on 11/18/2009 11:20:11 AM PST by ElectricStrawberry (Didja know that Man walked with 100+ species of large meat eating dinos within the last 4,351 years?)
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To: OldNavyVet
Just where is this story consistent with the seven day Biblical story?

It is NOT consistent with the Bible 'His-story', because Genesis 1:1-2 are not dated. But took place in what Peter calls the 'time' that WAS.

42 posted on 11/18/2009 11:21:11 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: onedoug

Maybe they think you look foolish simply because you’re a Christian. Every think of that?


43 posted on 11/18/2009 11:31:06 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

I’m not a Christian. So who seems foolish?


44 posted on 11/18/2009 11:36:30 AM PST by onedoug
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To: HamiltonJay; goodusername; ElectricStrawberry; metmom; GodGunsGuts

Well from the hydroplate theory [see link provided in post #19 earlier] Dr. Walt Brown Ph.D. extrapolates that the tectonic plates would have moved as fast as 45mph initially after the flood waters began to recede significantly. This will allow you to travel your 6,000 ‘Pacific Ocean’ miles in less than a week. ymmv. :’)


45 posted on 11/18/2009 11:40:45 AM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: allmendream; OldNavyVet

==Pretty much any science that doesn’t support a six thousand or so year old Earth/ Universe is “evolution”; and that would be ALL of science that deals in any way with how old things are, or how they got to be the way they are.

Hmmm...then how do you explain the following, dreamer? It would appear that your fellow evos are calling the data from all the scientific disciplines you mentioned above “evolution” as well. Imagine that.

http://www.tufts.edu/as/wright_center/cosmic_evolution/docs/splash.html


46 posted on 11/18/2009 11:42:22 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
One episode of 20 feet in a couple of days isn't going to create any new continents, especially since nobody living in the middle east has seemed to notice any movement over the last couple hundred thousand years.

And this part is just funny,

Now, accumulating evidence of rapid rifting―huge seams that open in perhaps days―contradicts the uniformitarian gradualism popularized by geologist Charles Lyell and naturalist Charles Darwin 150 years ago and still held by many modern geologists.

I suppose the author has a copy of Darwin's, "On the Origin of Continents" as evidence.

Also geology is not a sub-discipline of biology.

47 posted on 11/18/2009 11:43:19 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: BrandtMichaels

Indeed, there is so much catastrophism being uncovered these days, one wonders what uniformitarianism even means any more.


48 posted on 11/18/2009 11:47:31 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: BrandtMichaels

LOL...pretty soon the evos will probably be claiming that geological processes are uniformly catastrophic (hehe :o)


49 posted on 11/18/2009 11:49:25 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: BrandtMichaels
Isn’t uniformitarianism declaring that all changes occur in a slow uniform pace? Whatever we see happening now can be extrapolated for all periods of time, right?!

Second sentence okay, first sentence wrong. We don't see "all changes occur in a slow uniform pace" now, so there's no reason to assume they did in the past. There were probably 35-mile-long cracks that opened a couple of inches in a matter of days 10 thousand, ten million, or a hundred million years ago. That really doesn't get you any closer to thousands-of-mile-long cracks opening at a rate of meters per second, like the "surfing continents" idea requires.

50 posted on 11/18/2009 11:51:49 AM PST by Ha Ha Thats Very Logical
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