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MILLION HIT BY 'PLAGUE WORSE THAN SWINE FLU'
Daily Express / YouTube ^

Posted on 11/21/2009 7:01:41 AM PST by UncleVanya

MILLION HIT BY 'PLAGUE WORSE THAN SWINE FLU'

Sunday November 15,2009 By Greg Miskiw

A DEADLY plague could sweep across Europe, doctors fear, after an outbreak of a virus in Ukraine plunged the country and its neighbours into a state of panic.

A cocktail of three flu viruses are reported to have mutated into a single pneumonic plague, which it is believed may be far more dangerous than swine flu. The death toll has reached 189 and more than 1 million people have been infected, most of them in the nine regions of Western Ukraine.

President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko has called in the World Health Organisation and a team of nine specialists are carrying out tests in Kiev and Lviv to identify the virus. Samples have been sent to London for analysis.

President Yushchenko said: “People are dying. The epidemic is killing doctors. This is absolutely inconceivable in the 21st Century.”

In a TV interview, the President added: “Unlike similar epidemics in other countries, three causes of serious viral infections came together simultaneously in Ukraine – two seasonal flus and the Californian flu

“Virologists conclude that this combination of infections may produce an even more aggressive new virus as a result of mutation.”

Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko has been touring hospitals where victims are being treated and presidential elections in January could be cancelled .

Four men and one woman have died from the flu in Lviv, said emergency hospital chief doctor Myron Borysevych. Two of the dead patients were in the 22-35 age group, with two others over 60. He diagnosed the disease as viral pneumonia.

“We have sent the analyses to Kiev. We don’t believe it’s H1N1 swine flu. Neither do we know what kind of pneumonia it is.”

Universities, schools and kindergartens have been closed, public meetings have been banned and theatres shut. Last week several border crossings in the country were also closed.

Last night reports emerged of profiteering over face masks, which have sold out since the outbreak. There are also incidents of anti-virus medication being sold for exorbitant prices. A spokesman for the World Health Organisation said: “We do not have a time scale for the results of the tests in London, although some preliminary results have been obtained. I cannot tell you what they are.

“We did not have enough of the virus samples so we will have to grow some more before we can come to a conclusive decision about its nature.”

Neighbouring Poland has called on the EU to take action, fearing the mystery virus may spread westwards.

Prime Minister Donald Tusk has written to European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso and the Swedish Prime Minister, Fredrik Reinfeldt, who holds the EU presidency, saying: “The character of this threat demands that rapid action be undertaken at the European Union level.”

Russia, Slovakia, Poland, Hungary and Romania, countries that border Ukraine, have already launched health checks on Ukrainians entering their territory.

Slovakia has closed two of five border crossings.

A doctor in Western Ukraine who did not want to be named, said:” We have carried out post mortems on two victims and found their lungs are as black as charcoal.

“They look like they have been burned. It’s terrifying.”

============= Replies ===================

SPANISH FLU SYMPTOMS

19.11.09, 12:22am This virus is similar to the Spanish flu. Lungs start bleeding till victim cannot get enough air. Scientists exhumed Sapnish flu victims to rebuld the virus so that they could prepare a defence (vaccination?) should another pandemic occur. PS. Vaccines are dangerous - swine flu vaccines (and ordinary flu incidentally) have damaged and killed more people than the swine flu itself.
• Posted by: AnthonyRose •

OUTBREAK PREDICTED IN AUGUST - MOSHE ARRESTED BY FBI
19.11.09, 12:10am
I am a computer programmer with a B.Sc. degree in Biochemistry. I am anti-hoaxes and am very careful about them. But there is extremely convincing evidence (see August 16-21 below) that this virus is a bio-weapon.
August 12
Somebody from L.A. called Dr. Ott of Republican radio (off the air) and claimed that they had proof that the pandemic flu was reverse engineered at Ft. Detrick, Md - and then mass-produced in bio-weapons labs in the Ukraine - and that a more virulent strain would be released in November in the Ukraine.
Dr. Ott advised him to take his evidence to a U.S. Attorney at the L.A. Federal Bldg. and then call him back. He or Dr. Bill Deagle from San Diego would then follow up.
I have personally confirmed with Dr. Ott that this call took place. Most of the above is a direct quote from his email.
August 13
The following day, a Joseph Moshe was arrested following a chase and 9 hour standoff in his car in front of the L.A. Federal Bldg.
According to the FBI he had made a bomb threat against the White House (from L.A.?) and was wanted for two misdemeanours for verbal abuse of his mother. Odd things about the arrest were a) the preparedness and amount of force (they used a magnetic ulse to disable his car), and b) the ability of Moshe to withstand 4 cans of teargas and pepper spray - video here: huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/14/man-suspected-of-making-t_n_259330.html
Then the FBI destroyed his car.
I have not found out whether this is the same Joseph Bar-Moshe who is/was an Israeli-American microbiologist working in viral genetics: biomedexperts.com/Profile.bme/78637/Moshe_Bar-Joseph August 16-21.
There are comments on news pages by the public DATED IN AUGUST, PREDICTING this Ukrainian outbreak in late October/November. The Huffington Post link above is one of them.
October 29,31
Unverified - Reports of light airplanes spraying aerosols over some Ukrainian cities
November 4
Unverified - Reports of pressure to refer to all this as "swine flu"
November 18
After two weeks of not revealing the gene sequencing the WHO is referring to this as standard swine flu (of which less people die than standard flu), despite massive differences, paticularly rate of infection and the lungs being destroyed. Experts strongly disagree. There is evidence of collusion between WHO and big pharmaceuticals: Mexican Swine Flu Outbreak 2009:
SPECIAL REPORT by Dr Leonard Horowitz - youtube.com/watch?v=GBeKB7aKzOs
1982-2009
Over 90 scientists esp. microbiologists have died, most in suspicious ways. 26 in 2004. Here's one example: "Just four days after Dr. Que fell unconscious came the mysterious disappearance of Don Wiley, 57, ... an expert on how the immune system responds to viral attacks such as the classic doomsday plagues of HIV, ebola and influenza. He had just bought tickets to take his son to Graceland the following day. Police found his rental car on a bridge outside Memphis, Tenn. His body was later found in the Mississippi River. Forensic experts said he may have had a dizzy spell and have fallen off the bridge."
Why release a plague?
There are at least 3 possible believable motives: 1) De-population 2) Coup through martial law 3) Profit

• Posted by: AnthonyRose

SINE FLU & CLIMATE CHANGE - COPENHAGEN

18.11.09, 3:26pm

the Copenhagen meeting on Climate Change which should consider the physiological as well as the physical dangers which may confront us. You may have seen my views on the subject at www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/climatechange_grunhausproject.pdf Which has never been challenged yet !!
see also http://blogs.healthfreedomalliance.org/blog/category/pandemic/ukraine/ which is updated daily also http://thebirdflupandemic.com/archives/1-25-million-contract-mystery-flu-in-ukraine-as-flu-cases-spike-in-russia-belarus-bulgaria-serbia-norway-india-and-canada and http://labvirus.wordpress.com/

• Posted by: ferrand

H1N1 VIRUS CAN BE KILLED BY ACIDIC OZONE WATER

18.11.09, 3:51am

Scientists have found that acidic ozone water can effectively kill H1N1 viruses, with the advantages that it leaves no environmentally harmful residue and is inexpensive to prepare & it most probably kills this strain also...
ref.: http://www.physorg.com/news176991361.html
• Posted by: tsunamix

UPDATE

17.11.09, 7:55pm

Read it here>http://www.unfictional.com/joseph-moshe-mossad-bioweapon-swine-flu-vaccine-westwood
Today, the MSM are not talking about this case any more. Yesterday, they wanted us to believe that Joseph Moshe was a nutcase and a terrorist, arrested for threatening to bomb the White House. Interesting detail about his arrest (the “Westwood standoff”) was that he seemed to be immune to the 5 cans of tear gas and 5 gallons of law-enforcement grade pepper spray they pumped into his face. He very calmly remained in his car, as the video footage of his arrest shows.

Professor Moshe had called into a live radio show by Dr. A. True Ott, (explanation of Joseph Moshe’s call at 06:00) broadcast on Republic Broadcasting claiming to be a microbiologist who wanted to supply evidence to a States Attorney regarding tainted H1N1 Swine flu vaccines being produced by Baxter BioPharma Solutions. He said that Baxter’s Ukrainian lab was in fact producing a bioweapon disguised as a vaccine. He claimed that the vaccine contained an adjuvant (additive) designed to weaken the immune system, and replicated RNA from the virus responsible for the 1918 pandemic Spanish flu, causing global sickness and mass death.

• Posted by: adnetjm •

I SAW THIS VIDEO!

17.11.09, 7:48pm

Joseph moshe was about to blow the whistle on the mass genocide program concerning vaccine that is now under way with live virus's in it, all different also coming from china I head. He spoke of how they would test a live virus in the ukraine and then ship it to the usa... Look up his name. Or go see video. We will see if this is hype or real. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp4Y5GPbSbk

• Posted by: adnetjm

==============

Other sources:

Police standoff

Discussion of biowar danger

Even the Obamanite leftwing had to report

Evidence of intentional engineering?

Joseph Moshe (MOSSAD Microbiologist): “Swine flu vaccine is bioweapon” - includes following:

Does this sound like an insane conspiracy theory? Sure it does. Due to the scarcity and anonimity of the sources we would dismiss it as exactly that, if it weren’t for some uncomfortable facts: Baxter Pharmaceutical has been caught, red-handed, in spreading a live, genetically engineered H5N1 Bird flu vaccine as a lethal biological weapon all over the world, destined to be used for human vaccinations. This happened just a few months ago. And only luck prevented a global catastrophe of epic proportions.

Baxter International Inc. had mixed live, genetically engineered avian flue viruses in vaccine material shipped to 18 countries. Only by sheer luck, a Czech laboratory decided to test the vaccine on a dozen ferrets, which all died in days. The World Health Organization was notified and catastrophe was averted. This was clearly a deliberate act on Baxter’s part, because they adhere to BS3, bio-safety level three. Baxter admitted a “mistake”. Such monumental screwups are totally impossible at that level. Many safety systems would have needed to be sabotaged, many key personell would have needed to be bribed. It simply can’t be done without direction from the inside. They did not send out the wrong vial – they produced dozens of gallons of biological-weapon agent (genetically engineered live H5N1 / Bird flu virus), then sent it out as a “vaccine”.

Baxter knew full well that their vaccine was lethal, because the year before they had tested it on a few hundred homeless Polish people – dozens died as a result.

H1N1 UKRANIAN MUTATION - THE FULL STORY - H1N1 VACCINE IS A BIOWEAPON - AND HERES THE PROOF

==============

http://www.biomedexperts.com/start/PersonDetailpage.aspx?pid=78637

NOTE: REQUIRES CREATING ACCOUNT, SO PART OF BIO SHOWN HERE FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE. OBVIOUSLY, MR. MOSHE IS MORE THAN A CASUAL BY-STANDER WITH NO KNOWLEDGE OF BIOWAR AND RELATED MATTERS.

Bar-Joseph, Moshe

Closterovirus; Citrus; Viral RNA; Viral Genome; Plant Viruses; Base Sequence

Publications:

# 2009: Tatineni Satyanarayana; Afunian Mohammad R; Gowda Siddarame; Hilf Mark E; Bar-Joseph Moshe; Dawson William O Characterization of the 5'- and 3'-terminal subgenomic RNAs produced by a capillovirus: Evidence for a CP subgenomic RNA. Virology 2009;385(2):521-8. Citrus Research and Education Center, University of Florida-IFAS, Lake Alfred, FL 33850, USA. Satyanarayana.tatineni@ars.usda.gov

# 2008: Tatineni Satyanarayana; Robertson Cecile J; Garnsey Stephen M; Bar-Joseph Moshe; Gowda Siddarame; Dawson William O Three genes of Citrus tristeza virus are dispensable for infection and movement throughout some varieties of citrus trees. Virology 2008;376(2):297-307. Citrus Research and Education Center, University of Florida, 700 Experiment Station Road, Lake Alfred, FL 33850, USA.

# 2007: Folimonov Alexey S; Folimonova Svetlana Y; Bar-Joseph Moshe; Dawson William O A stable RNA virus-based vector for citrus trees. Virology 2007;368(1):205-16. Department of Plant Pathology, University of Florida, Citrus Research and Education Center, 700 Experiment Station Road, Lake Alfred, FL 33850, USA.

# 2006: Batuman Ozgur; Mawassi Munir; Bar-Joseph Moshe Transgenes consisting of a dsRNA of an RNAi suppressor plus the 3' UTR provide resistance to Citrus tristeza virus sequences in Nicotiana benthamiana but not in citrus. Virus genes 2006;33(3):319-27. The S. Tolkowsky laboratory, The Virology Department, ARO, The Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, 50250, Israel.

# 2006: Cohen Oded; Batuman Ozgur; Stanbekova Gulshan; Sano Teruo; Mawassi Munir; Bar-Joseph Moshe Construction of a multiprobe for the simultaneous detection of viroids infecting citrus trees. Virus genes 2006;33(3):287-92. The S. Tolkowsky laboratory, Department of Virology , Volcani Center, ARO, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 2004: Adams M J; Antoniw J F; Bar-Joseph M; Brunt A A; Candresse T; Foster G D; Martelli G P; Milne R G; Zavriev S K; Fauquet C M The new plant virus family Flexiviridae and assessment of molecular criteria for species demarcation. Archives of virology 2004;149(5):1045-60. Plant Pathogen Interactions Division, Rothamsted Research, Harpenden, Herts, UK. mike.adams@bbsrc.ac.uk

# 2003: Galiakparov Nurbol; Goszczynski Dariusz E; Che Xibing; Batuman Ozgur; Bar-Joseph Moshe; Mawassi Munir Two classes of subgenomic RNA of grapevine virus A produced by internal controller elements. Virology 2003;312(2):434-48. The S. Tolkowsky Laboratory, Department of Virology, Agricultural Research Organization, The Volcani Center, 50250 Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 2003: Che Xibing; Dawson William O; Bar-Joseph Moshe Defective RNAs of Citrus tristeza virus analogous to Crinivirus genomic RNAs. Virology 2003;310(2):298-309. The S. Tolkowsky Laboratory, Department of Virology, Agricultural Research Organization, the Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 2003: Gowda Siddarame; Ayllón María A; Satyanarayana Tatineni; Bar-Joseph Moshe; Dawson William O Transcription strategy in a Closterovirus: a novel 5'-proximal controller element of Citrus Tristeza Virus produces 5'- and 3'-terminal subgenomic RNAs and differs from 3' open reading frame controller elements. Journal of virology 2003;77(1):340-52. Citrus Research and Education Center, University of Florida, Lake Alfred 33850, USA.

# 2002: Martelli G P; Agranovsky A A; Bar-Joseph M; Boscia D; Candresse T; Coutts R H A; Dolja V V; Falk B W; Gonsalves D; Jelkmann W; Karasev A V; Minafra A; Namba S; Vetten H J; Wisler G C; Yoshikawa N; The family Closteroviridae revised. Archives of virology 2002;147(10):2039-44.

# 2002: Che Xibing; Mawassi Munir; Bar-Joseph Moshe A novel class of large and infectious defective RNAs of Citrus tristeza virus. Virology 2002;298(1):133-45. The S. Tolkowsky Laboratory, Agricultural Research Organization, the Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 2001: Che X; Piestun D; Mawassi M; Yang G; Satyanarayana T; Gowda S; Dawson W O; Bar-Joseph M 5'-coterminal subgenomic RNAs in citrus tristeza virus-infected cells. Virology 2001;283(2):374-81. The S. Tolkowsky Laboratory, Department of Virology, Agricultural Research Organization, The Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 2001: Satyanarayana T; Bar-Joseph M; Mawassi M; Albiach-Martí M R; Ayllón M A; Gowda S; Hilf M E; Moreno P; Garnsey S M; Dawson W O Amplification of Citrus tristeza virus from a cDNA clone and infection of citrus trees. Virology 2001;280(1):87-96. Department of Plant Pathology, University of Florida, Citrus Research and Education Center, Lake Alfred, Florida 33850, USA.

# 2000: Gowda S; Satyanarayana T; Davis C L; Navas-Castillo J; Albiach-Martí M R; Mawassi M; Valkov N; Bar-Joseph M; Moreno P; Dawson W O The p20 gene product of Citrus tristeza virus accumulates in the amorphous inclusion bodies. Virology 2000;274(2):246-54. Department of Plant Pathology, University of Florida, Lake Alfred, Florida 33850, USA.

# 2000: Owens R A; Yang G; Gundersen-Rindal D; Hammond R W; Candresse T; Bar-Joseph M Both point mutation and RNA recombination contribute to the sequence diversity of citrus viroid III. Virus genes 2000;20(3):243-52. Molecular Plant Pathology, Beltsville Agricultural Research Center, Beltsville, MD 20705, USA. rowens@asrr.arsusda.gov

# 1999: Satyanarayana T; Gowda S; Boyko V P; Albiach-Marti M R; Mawassi M; Navas-Castillo J; Karasev A V; Dolja V; Hilf M E; Lewandowski D J; Moreno P; Bar-Joseph M; Garnsey S M; Dawson W O An engineered closterovirus RNA replicon and analysis of heterologous terminal sequences for replication. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 1999;96(13):7433-8. Department of Plant Pathology, University of Florida, Citrus Research and Education Center, Lake Alfred, FL 33850, USA.

# 1999: Yang G; Che X; Gofman R; Ben-Shalom Y; Piestun D; Gafny R; Mawassi M; Bar-Joseph M D-RNA molecules associated with subisolates of the VT strain of citrus tristeza virus which induce different seedling-yellows reactions. Virus genes 1999;19(1):5-13. The S. Tolkowsky Laboratory, Department of Virology, Agricultural Research Organization, the Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 1997: Yang G; Mawassi M; Gofman R; Gafny R; Bar-Joseph M Involvement of a subgenomic mRNA in the generation of a variable population of defective citrus tristeza virus molecules. Journal of virology 1997;71(12):9800-2. The S. Tolkowsky Laboratory, Department of Virology, Agricultural Research Organization, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 1997: Bar-Joseph M; Filatov V; Gofman R; Guang Y; Hadjinicolis A; Mawassi M; Gootwine E; Weisman Y; Malkinson M Booster immunization with a partially purified citrus tristeza virus (CTV) preparation after priming with recombinant CTV coat protein enhances the binding capacity of capture antibodies by ELISA. Journal of virological methods 1997;67(1):19-22. Department of Virology, Israel Agricultural Research Organization, The Volcani Center, Bet Dagan. vpmbj@volcani.agri.gov.il

# 1997: Yang G; Mawassi M; Ashoulin L; Gafny R; Gaba V; Gal-On A; Bar-Joseph M A cDNA clone from a defective RNA of citrus tristeza virus is infective in the presence of the helper virus. The Journal of general virology 1997;78 ( Pt 7)():1765-9. S. Tolkowsky Laboratory, Department of Virology, A.R.O., Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 1996: Mawassi M; Mietkiewska E; Gofman R; Yang G; Bar-Joseph M Unusual sequence relationships between two isolates of citrus tristeza virus. The Journal of general virology 1996;77 ( Pt 9)():2359-64. S. Tolkowsky Laboratory, Department of Virology, Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 1995: Mawassi M; Mietkiewska E; Hilf M E; Ashoulin L; Karasev A V; Gafny R; Lee R F; Garnsey S M; Dawson W O; Bar-Joseph M Multiple species of defective RNAs in plants infected with citrus tristeza virus. Virology 1995;214(1):264-8. S. Tolkowsky Laboratory, Department of Virology, Agricultural Research Organization, Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 1995: Mawassi M; Karasev A V; Mietkiewska E; Gafny R; Lee R F; Dawson W O; Bar-Joseph M Defective RNA molecules associated with citrus tristeza virus. Virology 1995;208(1):383-7. Department of Virology, Agricultural Research Organization, The Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 1995: Mawassi M; Gafny R; Gagliardi D; Bar-Joseph M Populations of citrus tristeza virus contain smaller-than-full-length particles which encapsidate sub-genomic RNA molecules. The Journal of general virology 1995;76 ( Pt 3)():651-9. S. Tolkowsky Laboratory, Department of Virology, Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 1993: Mawassi M; Gafny R; Bar-Joseph M Nucleotide sequence of the coat protein gene of citrus tristeza virus: comparison of biologically diverse isolates collected in Israel. Virus genes 1993;7(3):265-75. S. Tolkowsky Laboratory, A.R.O., Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 1993: Mogilner N; Zutra D; Gafny R; Bar-Joseph M The persistence of engineered Agrobacterium tumefaciens in agroinfected plants. Molecular plant-microbe interactions : MPMI 1993;6(5):673-5. S. Tolkowsky Laboratory and Department of Plant Pathology, Agricultural Research Organization Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 1989: Dulieu P; Bar-Joseph M Rapid isolation of double stranded RNA segments from disulphide crosslinked polyacrylamide gels. Journal of virological methods 1989;24(1-2):77-83. S. Tolkowsky Laboratory, Department of Virology, Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, Israel.

# 1980: Bar-Joseph M; Malkinson M Hen egg yolk as a source of antiviral antibodies in the enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA): a comparison of two plant viruses. Journal of virological methods 1980;1(3):179-83.

=========================



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: flu; martiallaw; million; plague; tyranny; ukraine
Serious suspicion concerning biowar prepared against world populations and U.S. -- Hard to imagine evil of such proportions. But throughout history, sadly we find modern examples like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Idi Amin, Robert Mugabe, "ethnic cleansing" in Serbia, Sadam Hussein's use of CBW on women and children, intentional infection in the U.S. of blacks with syphillis for "research" purposes, intentional exposure to radiation of uninformed patients finally admitted by the Secretary of Energy, intentional torture of patients for "psychic driving" in Project Bluebird, admitted uninformed MKULTRA administration of LSD to Frank Olsen from Ft. Deitrich followed by his likely murder and cover-up. All this leads to taking this flu-related matter seriously. There are those who are evil enough -- that we can't deny. We do know, also, from reports slipping out of the Army War College in Carlyle that there have been serious preparations under way to use U.S. military forces to quell American citizens in their own communities. Even members of the lame-brained, irresponsible Congress report that they were stampeded into voting for the "bail out" due to claims that there might be a need for martial law. Those of us who have worked hard, led decent lives, and served our country would have never imagined these things being thinkable. But Barry Soetoro, reported to be president, has bowed to others. Why not to this?
1 posted on 11/21/2009 7:01:42 AM PST by UncleVanya
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To: UncleVanya
Serious suspicion concerning biowar prepared against world populations and U.S.

Highly doubt it --Bio War of disease type can't be contained to the desired population in this day and age of world travel
2 posted on 11/21/2009 7:09:14 AM PST by uncbob
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To: UncleVanya

All too wierd for me but I do like one thing.

Barak Obama. RTBP. Reported to be President.

Maybe we should change it to ATBP though.

Alleged to be president. Wouldn’t want to jump to
conclusions.


3 posted on 11/21/2009 7:09:58 AM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: UncleVanya
What is the US Gov interest in propagating these scare based vaccination campaigns?

1976 Swine Flu Propaganda
4 posted on 11/21/2009 7:13:52 AM PST by etradervic (Democrat uber deficit spending proves that the swine flu originated in DC)
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To: UncleVanya

I first saw the early parts of this story in August and every article since has been progressively more scary. Additionally, many of those in the exposure areas claim that the governments there are under-reporting all related facts by a factor of 10 or 20 to one.


5 posted on 11/21/2009 7:14:00 AM PST by BuffaloJack (All Dictators have their Henchmen; the President just calls them his Czars.)
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To: UncleVanya

the first article is some of the worst reporting I have ever seen. Sorry dude influenza does not ‘mutate’ into plague. The reports out of Ukraine do report a lot of illness from something that is NOT plague but looks more like shock lung as a result of an influenza virus. This is what killed so many in 1918.

This may be bio warfare or maybe not. We need to keep our heads about us and not run off all crazy.

You are citing Alex Jones type rubbish in some of it.

Take a deep breath. Reorganize your thoughts. Take your meds if necessary


6 posted on 11/21/2009 7:14:22 AM PST by the long march
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To: UncleVanya

bookmark for later reading — and RESEARCH


7 posted on 11/21/2009 7:29:37 AM PST by patriot preacher (To be a good American Citizen and a Christian IS NOT a contradiction. (www.mygration.blogspot.com))
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To: etradervic

When is Cute Katie or Diane Sawyer going to get over there and report on this for us? (;-)


8 posted on 11/21/2009 7:31:02 AM PST by Dem Guard
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To: the long march

I take it that you are a qualified virologist and also qualified to prescribe meds? Or you just enjoy making anonymous insults? As to the topic itself, the articles and videos are presented for what they were online in newspaper and television reporting, a long discussion by at least one qualified biologist, and information about Mr. Joseph from a recognized database of bio-experts. If none of this troubles you, that’s your choice. Would you mind if others look at the information and arrive at their own conclusions? I’m not sure who the Alex fellow is, but I’ll leave him for you to follow.


9 posted on 11/21/2009 7:31:06 AM PST by UncleVanya
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To: UncleVanya

I’m sorry but I can’t begin to read your comment in post #1. The lack of structure in your post is torturous.

Please, in the future, if you want me (and those like me) to read what you have to say, use paragraphs.


10 posted on 11/21/2009 7:37:27 AM PST by Sally'sConcerns (I'M A TAGLINE)
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To: the long march
Even if the hysterical reporting in the original article were true, the cited mortality rate is very low: 189 out of more than a million cases. That's less than two hundredths of a percent, or 0.0189%.

If the later statement that the government might be underreporting the cases by a factor of 10 or 20 were true, that would make it even less lethal (since it's harder to underreport the deaths themselves than it is the overall cases).

11 posted on 11/21/2009 7:38:48 AM PST by doc11355
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To: UncleVanya

Look if you post something that says the moon is made of green cheese or that the world will end tomorrow at 1pm I will point out the BS in those articles too.

Just because you can find it on the net does not make it true. Just because you claim some one is an expert does not make it so. The nice thing about having a brain is that whether I have a degree in EVERYTHING or not I know how to analyze and do critical thinking. Try it sometime you might enjoy it


12 posted on 11/21/2009 7:40:51 AM PST by the long march
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To: UncleVanya

And it seems that you have cherry picked most of your ‘news’ form old articles posted at Steven Quayle’s site.

After listening to the late night crazies be sure and post again.


13 posted on 11/21/2009 7:43:39 AM PST by the long march
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To: etradervic
I think the big thing is that shots are given out on a "selective" basis....excluding seniors.

Yet, the stats show that the majority of deaths are seniors.

14 posted on 11/21/2009 7:56:17 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: DvdMom

ping


15 posted on 11/21/2009 8:13:21 AM PST by FromLori (FromLori)
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To: UncleVanya; the long march
Plague is bacterial, specifically the handiwork of the bacterium Yersinia pestis. Viruses do not 'mutate' into bacteria; they are unrelated lifeforms. To this extent, FReeper thelongmarch is entirely correct, whether he is a 'qualified virologist' or not.

Anyone asserting the contrary, that viruses can indeed 'mutate' into bacteria, is eligible for employment in the new Zerobama-Reid-Pelosi utopia of health science.

16 posted on 11/21/2009 8:21:14 AM PST by SAJ
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To: FromLori

1918 RBD D225G in Lung Cases in Ukraine and Norway
Recombinomics Commentary 11:29
November 21, 2009

For the two 1918 HA variants, the South Carolina (SC) HA (with Asp190, Asp225) bound exclusively alpha2-6 receptors, while the New York (NY) variant, which differed only by one residue (Gly225), had mixed alpha2-6/alpha2-3 specificity, especially for sulfated oligosaccharides.

The above description is from a paper analyzing receptor binding domain differences in sequences from the 1918 pandemic. The New York variant had D225G, the same change found in lung tissues from fatal swine H1N1 sequences in Brazil, Ukraine, and Norway. The above result clearly demonstrated a change in receptor specificity for D225G, which was present in A/New York/1/1918 and A/London/1/1919, demonstrating the same change I 1918 that has been described in 2009. Although WHO stated that this change was “not significant” in the Ukraine samples, it was associated with the fatal cases and is cause for concern. The concern was increased by the announcement from Norway indicating the same change was found in fatal H1N1 lung infections there also.

Although there have been comments that this change was “spontaneous” and did not spread, the finding of the same change in all four deceased patients in Ukraine from two distinct locations, indicates it did spread, as did the finding of the same change in multiple cases in Brazil and Norway. Although the concept of “random mutation” has been used to explain away the sudden appearance of the same polymorphism on multiple backgrounds, the appearance via recombination is a much stronger argument for the same change to appear at multiple locations at the same time.

The spontaneous mutation theory, which is the foundation of WHO policy and statements on significance of changes relies heavily on a “selection” component, arguing that the same change keeps appearing on different backgrounds because of string selection pressure. However, this same phenomenon was described for a silent mutation on H5N1, which offers no clear selection pressure. Similarly, a silent change was also found in seasonal H1N1 in sequences that had acquired the Tamiflu resistance marker, H274Y. Thus, these silent (synonymous) changes string argue against a coincidental spontaneous mutation, and instead argue that this acquisition is concurrently acquired because of a widespread common donor.

The concept of acquisition via recombination has serious implications for the current pandemic. It was used to predict the D225G change, in part because the change was “in play” and appearing in July/August sequences at increasing frequency, even though the H1N1 sequences represented different genetic backgrounds. Similarly the clusters of Tamiflu resistance in Wales and North Carolina are also driven by recombination, as happened when the identical change was acquired in H1N1 seasonal flu in patients who were not taking Tamiflu (oseltamivir).

Thus, the concept of recombination predicts that the D225G receptor binding domain change, and the H274Y Tamiflu resistance change, which continue to spread via recombination

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11210902/D225G_1918.html


17 posted on 11/21/2009 8:23:59 AM PST by DvdMom (Freeper Smokin' Joe does the avian / H1N1 ping list)
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To: UncleVanya

Report this morning that way back to August, they knew the h1n1 virus had mutated and made the vaccine success rate questionable.


18 posted on 11/21/2009 8:40:45 AM PST by autumnraine (You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out!)
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To: UncleVanya
I-hope-it-breaks-out-at-an-ACORN-office-SEIU-demonstration-or-DNC-meeting ping!


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

19 posted on 11/21/2009 8:43:32 AM PST by The Comedian (Evil can only succeed if good men don't point at it and laugh.)
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To: doc11355

No, it’s moved to 362 since the 15th. And that is REPORTED deaths.

However I don’t think it’s mutated into a plague. I think it’s the cytokine storm that results in healthier patients dying from the flu. However this very same principle makes those who take the vaccine just as succeptible to the cytokine storm as healthy people.


20 posted on 11/21/2009 8:44:58 AM PST by autumnraine (You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out!)
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To: DvdMom

Resistant swine flu cluster found in N.C.

Tamiflu is ineffective against four N.C. cases

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/21/resistant-swine-flu-cluster-found/?feat=home_headlines


21 posted on 11/21/2009 8:49:06 AM PST by FromLori (FromLori)
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To: the long march

Again, names you recognize, but I don’t. The links came from the original thread on the newspaper. (The reference to “plague,” by the way, was used in the general dictionary sense, not citing the “bubonic plague.” As to your reference to the 1918 epidemic, that is exactly what several of the sources reference.) I don’t listen to radio at all, much less the “late night crazies” you are seem familiar with. So your suppositions are in your own head. The topic seems to have touched a nerve, and you are intent on discrediting it. (Are you claiming, by the way, that Baxter International did not actually mix live, genetically engineered avian flu viruses in vaccine material shipped to 18 countries, with catastrophe averted only by fortunate testing by a Czech laboratory?) Well, FR has those who seek the truth, discuss it civilly, and a few who are here to disrupt or discourage it. I’ll let other readers come to their own conclusions.


22 posted on 11/21/2009 9:04:25 AM PST by UncleVanya
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To: Sally'sConcerns

Sally, if that is your name, it took some time to compile for those with an honest interest. As to aesthetics, feel free to copy-paste and re-post with posies, if you like. Wouldn’t you say the topic is important enough without worrying about Martha Stewart? Or feel free to skip it.


23 posted on 11/21/2009 9:04:26 AM PST by UncleVanya
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To: uncbob

A very good point, and a scruple that you and I would have. But it doesn’t mean those capable of something like this — if it were for some sort of counter-Malthusian insanity — would let that trouble them from their privileged heights. Or possibly with vaccines already known to be efficacious, though not released to the public. The limits on your and my behavior are a respect for the sanctity of human life. Not everyone in history nor in the world today lets that trouble them. (Consider the Eritrean holocaust which continues this moment without much objection.) This is, of course, unlikely, but not unthinkable. There are things about this that are not adding up, and there are numbers of respected medical professionals who are not convinced HHS is giving us the straight story. It raises questions. One way to pursue this story is to speak with Mr. Joseph in Israel directly. I wonder why “mainstream” media — those stout, leg-tingling, pure-hearted champions of MSNBC — have not given this a try. In the meantime, would we be surprised to see the “lurkers” pouncing to ridicule the topic rather than illuminate it?


24 posted on 11/21/2009 9:04:27 AM PST by UncleVanya
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To: DvdMom

Ping. “Although the concept of “random mutation” has been used to explain away the sudden appearance of the same polymorphism on multiple backgrounds, the appearance via recombination is a much stronger argument for the same change to appear at multiple locations at the same time.” That’s the intriguing point. Thank you.


25 posted on 11/21/2009 9:04:29 AM PST by UncleVanya
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To: SAJ

Look in the English dictionary under the word “plague.” The British journalist in a general-reader newspaper used it in that sense, not with the scientific distinction you are trying to draw. Sounds like the whole sophormore dorm is determined to distract from the issue by straw-men arguments. No more need be said. The recombinant discussion above is the only sound scientific comment that merits reader attention.


26 posted on 11/21/2009 9:04:29 AM PST by UncleVanya
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To: The Comedian

Ping! lol


27 posted on 11/21/2009 9:04:34 AM PST by UncleVanya
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To: UncleVanya
Sally, if that is your name, it took some time to compile for those with an honest interest.

Guess I'm outed since my birth certificate has Sally as my first name. Sorry you feel I don't have an honest interest when I request the courtesy of formatting.

As to aesthetics, feel free to copy-paste and re-post with posies, if you like. Wouldn’t you say the topic is important enough without worrying about Martha Stewart? Or feel free to skip it.

I'm not going to do your job for you. It's too bad you apparently don't have enough respect for your post to make it legible to the majority of FReepers. As you don't think it's important enough to insert paragraphs in order to make it legible, I don't find it important enough to read.

28 posted on 11/21/2009 9:20:49 AM PST by Sally'sConcerns (I'M A TAGLINE)
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To: doc11355

I always cheer the voice of sanity on these threads. These days I’m not cheering all that much, if you catch my drift.

I can’t believe the number of people who sucker for these reports hook, line, and sinker.


29 posted on 11/21/2009 9:36:56 AM PST by DoughtyOne (A MELTING POT not a potters wheel. Join us. Don't try to turn this nation into the one you fled.)
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To: Sally'sConcerns

The post is completely readable. There’s nothing wrong with the formatting. Maybe it’s your browser that’s to blame.


30 posted on 11/21/2009 9:47:41 AM PST by giotto
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To: UncleVanya
I strongly recommend that you take at least one course in epidemiology. You will learn very quickly that misidentification of pathogens, even incidentally, leads to disaster.

As to the dictionary, laymen's dictionaries are next to useless in technical discussions. Competent discussions of recombinance involving viruses should avoid at all costs any reference to bacteriological pathogens, en passant or otherwise. There is absolutely no need for or use in risking muddying the discussion by using the term 'plague' in a generic, as opposed to disease-specific, sense in such a discussion.

This sentiment applies with equal force to 'journalists' who write on technical matters, whether in a general-readership publication or not.

''No more need be said,'', eh? Fine, you can cease your defense of an indefensible botch any time.

31 posted on 11/21/2009 9:48:58 AM PST by SAJ
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To: giotto
The post is completely readable. There’s nothing wrong with the formatting. Maybe it’s your browser that’s to blame.

There's nothing wrong with my browser. There is a distinct lack of paragraphs in post #1. Paragraphs break up text and make posts much easier to read and understand.

32 posted on 11/21/2009 9:55:29 AM PST by Sally'sConcerns (I'M A TAGLINE)
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To: UncleVanya

News Article Links

background) Feb 2007: http://www.singtomeohmuse.com/viewtopic.php?t=423&highlight=baxter+h5n1

March 2009 “The Baxter H3N2/H5N1 Contamination Debacle”
http://www.singtomeohmuse.com/viewtopic.php?t=3170&highlight=baxter+h5n1


33 posted on 11/21/2009 10:07:49 AM PST by DvdMom (Freeper Smokin' Joe does the avian / H1N1 ping list)
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To: Sally'sConcerns

There are line breaks. So what if part of the post doesn’t have paragraph breaks? Is this really something to quibble about? Give the guy a break.


34 posted on 11/21/2009 10:09:09 AM PST by giotto
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To: UncleVanya

WHO Assesses H1N1 Virus Mutation In Norway

2009, November 21 - VisitBulgaria.com

“According to the UN agency, apart from Norway, countries like Brazil, China, Japan, Mexico, Ukraine and the United States also detected the mutation sometime in early April.”

http://visitbulgaria.info/11885-who-assesses-h1n1-virus-mutation-norway#ixzz0XWAZDwM2


35 posted on 11/21/2009 10:13:11 AM PST by DvdMom (Freeper Smokin' Joe does the avian / H1N1 ping list)
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To: giotto

Please point out the first line break in post #1. I see what looks to be a run-on sentence posted in one wad. I know it’s not a run-on sentence but when paragraphs aren’t used it looks like one.

I gave the guy a break when I read the title and all that fell under it in the excerpting section. It had paragraphs even if it was long and had several different citations.


36 posted on 11/21/2009 10:32:51 AM PST by Sally'sConcerns (I'M A TAGLINE!)
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To: Sally'sConcerns

You’re talking about the comment in post #1? Good grief. It’s one long paragraph which basically discusses one thought. At most I would have inserted one paragraph break. It’s a comment! Who cares how a comment is formatted?


37 posted on 11/21/2009 11:00:41 AM PST by giotto
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To: giotto

If it’s important enough to post a comment then it’s important enough that the poster wants it to be read. I care if the comment is formatted as simple paragraphs because then I can read the thing.

I have a 21” monitor set to where I can read it without trying to use physical correction of my eyesight because there isn’t a physical correction available to me. Paragraphs keep the text from looking like it’s squiggling across the page. We aren’t talking rocket science here, we’re talking about using the enter button to make a straight forward paragraph.

Are you finished now or would you like further clarification about why there’s a saying of “Paragraphs are your friend.”?


38 posted on 11/21/2009 11:28:38 AM PST by Sally'sConcerns (I'M A TAGLINE!)
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To: UncleVanya

The story itself claims that the influenza virus had mutated into pneumonic plague.

Look I know you are new to FR but please just because something is ‘out there’ doen’t make it true. And your claim that you are seeking the truth leaves one in much doubt. Sources are everything. The reliabilty of yours is at best questionable


39 posted on 11/21/2009 2:50:12 PM PST by the long march
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To: the long march

The report about the “Ukranian plague” is bunk. There was a panic that H1N1 had mutated into something worse but the WHO has already tested over 30 samples from the supposed victims of this plague and all they have found is typical H1N1. No mutations detected.

The simple fact is that H1N1 can kill all on its lonesome, and I guess when there is a pocket of deaths in one location, people get scared that something other than random chance is at play.


40 posted on 11/21/2009 4:15:13 PM PST by tyke
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To: the long march

Plague is a general term in the English dictionary. If you happen to have access to the dictionary they showed you in middle school, you can check it out. The reference to a pneuomonic plague is exactly correct in the nontechnical terms appropriate for a general readership newspaper, which was one of the sources cited. I find it interesting to see your earlier casual remarks about ‘whether the matter is true or not’ — but more intent on denigrating the intellect, motives and character of someone you’ve never met than addressing the substance of the articles. Your niggling for sophomore debating points distracts from the discussion. Perhaps that is your intention. Oh, by the way, if a “plague” of locusts flies through your campus, be sure to check whether they are mutating into Democrats.


41 posted on 11/21/2009 8:50:01 PM PST by UncleVanya
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To: tyke

Apparently the prime minister of the country doesn’t agree with you. But I’m sure if you send her a telegram, she along with the Ukrainian parliament, their health ministry that declared an emergency, and the surrounding countries who closed off border crossings will be greatly reassured that you think it’s all “bunk.”


42 posted on 11/21/2009 8:50:12 PM PST by UncleVanya
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To: tyke
Yes, you're right. It's all "bunk." Better let the EU know about your conclusions. It'll let everybody sleep well tonight.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/International/2009/11/04/Ukraine-flu-outbreak-worries-EU-neighbors/UPI-70081257359934/

Ukraine flu outbreak worries EU neighbors

BRUSSELS, Nov. 4 (UPI) -- An explosive outbreak of influenza in Ukraine is worrying EU member nations that border it, observers say. Kiev has issued a call for international help in obtaining anti-viral drugs, saying 71 people have died in the past week and another 240 people hospitalized in serious condition among more than 250,000 reported cases of flu-like infection, the EUobserver reported Wednesday. The publication said blood tests have not confirmed the presence of the H1N1 variety known as "swine flu," but the rapid pace of the infections have prompted a high level of concern among Ukraine's neighbors. "The priority is to obtain the Tamiflu anti-viral drug, as well as antibiotics, respirators, protective masks and test kits for identifying the A/H1N1 virus," the Ukrainian government said in a statement Wednesday. EU countries such as Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania that share land borders with Ukraine are worried, and are offering help. The EUobserver reported that Polish newspapers are saying Slovakia has already sent 200,000 protective masks to Ukraine. Warsaw is also reportedly concerned about the flu situation in Belarus because of that country's closed, authoritarian government. The publication said critics contend Belarus is concealing a large flu outbreak.

43 posted on 11/21/2009 8:50:16 PM PST by UncleVanya
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To: SAJ
Interesting to see the extent of ad hominem attacks this item is drawing. Must be something to it for the slash-and-burn, we-are-so-smart brigade to be out T-Ping the campus like this. Now as to some core substantive questions:

1. Do you have any nifty explanations, perhaps even backed up by factual citations, for why Baxter International, Inc. mixed live, genetically engineered avian flu viruses in vaccine material shipped to 18 countries? A "mistake" that is virtually unknown in a bio-safety three facility with numerous key safety systems that would have had to be breached? Can you address with any real authority or experience the allegation: "It simply can’t be done without direction from the inside. They did not send out the wrong vial – they produced dozens of gallons of biological-weapon agent (genetically engineered live H5N1 / Bird flu virus), then sent it out as a “vaccine”."

Anything substantive to add to why Mr. Moshe, a microbiologist, was "gangbanged" by a brigade of cops after reporting that Baxter’s Ukrainian lab was in fact producing a bioweapon disguised as a vaccine. He claimed that the vaccine contained an adjuvant designed to weaken the immune system, and replicated RNA from the virus responsible for the 1918 pandemic Spanish flu, causing global sickness and mass death. Do you have any actual facts to illuminate this issue?

Or just personal put-downs of someone whose education, experience, motives and character you have not the least glimmer. If it's only the latter, I think most readers here understand your purpose. And honestly, we're much more interested in the two questions above, not your name-calling to distract from them.

44 posted on 11/21/2009 8:50:22 PM PST by UncleVanya
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To: UncleVanya

What’s the “Californian flu”?


45 posted on 11/21/2009 8:53:23 PM PST by bannie
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To: bannie

liberalism


46 posted on 11/21/2009 8:55:19 PM PST by SZonian (Bullets, Bread, Butter)
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To: UncleVanya

That’s old news. They’ve since tested 34 samples and found only typical H1N1:

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_11_16/en/

From reading the latest news reports it sounds more like Ukrainian politicians hyping things up during their election campaign. There is no doubt that H1N1 is hitting the Ukraine hard and their health system is nowhere near as good as ours so it’s no surprise that there is panic. But there isn’t any confirmation of any plague. The EU is probably still concerned because they haven’t rolled out the vaccine in great numbers yet.

The only mutation people are concerned about at the moment is this new resistance to anti-virals like Tamiflu, but that doesn’t really come as much of a surprise either since scientists were already talking about resistant strains last year before the latest outbreak occurred.

So, yeah, nothing to see here except more swine influenza. There is a potential for a nasty mutation, sure, but it ain’t happen yet.


47 posted on 11/21/2009 9:17:08 PM PST by tyke
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To: UncleVanya
Ad hominem? Where?

I defy you to cite ANY ad hominem remark in either of my posts on this thread.

I see you've adroitly changed the subject, too, away from abuse of terminology.

48 posted on 11/22/2009 4:29:17 AM PST by SAJ
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To: tyke

Yup and note that CDC has listed H1N1 cases as being on the decline so our pattern is indeed following that of Australia’s ( which has already gone through their season). It hit earlier than usual, lots of folks got it, the usual candidates did not die, and onece it hit it was over.

I had predicted based on that info that ours would decline by Nov 15th...not so far off as a predictor


49 posted on 11/23/2009 12:54:38 PM PST by the long march
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