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Live Thread: Senate Debate and Cloture Vote on Motion to Proceed to Debate ObamaCare
Saturday, November 21, 2009 | Kristinn

Posted on 11/21/2009 9:43:50 AM PST by kristinn

C-SPAN 2 is carrying the Senate floor debate live this afternoon.

The Democrats control the floor right now. Earlier, Republican Senators Judd Gregg, Kit Bond, Jeff Sessions and David Vitter gave good speeches and dialogues on the budget-busting effects of ObamaCare.

Maria Cantwell is speaking now. Mary Landrieu is excpected to speak shortly.

The cloture vote is scheduled for 8 p.m. EST tonight.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 111th; bhohealthcare; cloture; deathpanels; healthcare; hillarycare; obamacare; obamao; romneycare; socializedmedicine; supermajority
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To: YankeeMagic
Who is John Galt?

Every single one of us who feels despair and helplessness. Sad isn't it?

sw

261 posted on 11/21/2009 12:20:45 PM PST by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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To: roses of sharon; All

You seem to find these threads full of distraught conservatives and cut and paste your defeatist diatribes from other, earlier threads. Why? If we get bad law, we have to deal with it. Folding up into the fetal position is not dealing with it. Who are you?

Try this. What if, rather than just talking about how miserable we all are, we get as many people as possible to sign off on the Manhattan Declaration? Basically, it preempts the wait to November 2010 by drawing a line in the sand right now. That declaration sends a clear message that all who sign it will engage in conscientious civil disobedience. Simply put, we will not comply. If only a handful do this, it will go nowhere. But if the naysayers among us would stop throwing cold water on hot spirits, we could get this teapot to critical mass and finally boil over. Any thoughts?


262 posted on 11/21/2009 12:20:50 PM PST by Springfield Reformer
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To: usconservative
Just remember one thing: these corrupt assholes may win the battle today, but in November of 2010 they lose the war. I know it to the depth of my bones.

By then, the Hussein-Health-Hell will be enshrined into law, the Kenyan Commie will have a treasure chest as large as the PORKULUS BILL + HIS CULTISTS' DONATIONS to distribute, and liberty will continue to die her ignoble death.

Our lives are in deep trouble, and people like Ben Nelson, Mary Landrieu, Joe Lieberman and Blanche Lincoln--who could have stood up tall for once in their lives--are allowing us to be sold down the river.

Pray for America. God help us all.

263 posted on 11/21/2009 12:21:15 PM PST by Recovering_Democrat
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To: Springfield Reformer
Springfield....I know I'm being stupid....but exactly what is the "Manhattan Declaration"?

I'd like to read it.

Thanks....

264 posted on 11/21/2009 12:23:18 PM PST by Logic n' Reason (If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.)
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To: faucetman

Gotcha, thank you.


265 posted on 11/21/2009 12:23:24 PM PST by StatenIsland
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To: usconservative
I suggest hand delivery of our taxes on April 15th. ALL OF US. Not paying them at all would be a better option, don't you think? "National Tax Revolt - April 15th: Revenge Of The Taxpayers." Hand delivery was specified...not payment in full...let everyone do what they want, but let's show up with 5-10 million people and let's see them under-count that...that's what we need...overwhelming, shock and awe, no shit, stop it right now type action...and I would show up with three of my boys in a pretty bad mood...
266 posted on 11/21/2009 12:23:27 PM PST by jessduntno (Obama is failing because he has no understanding of the American people, and may indeed loathe them.)
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To: vaudine; RebelTXRose
-- To bring it for debate, they must have 60 votes. After debate, they vote up or down, in which case only 51 votes are needed. --

That's correct as far as it goes, but I'm pretty sure you are conflating various aspects of the parliamentary process.

The cloture widget can come up more than once. It's function is to get around objection. If there is no objection to "whatever," then there is no need to use cloture.

Compounding the confusion, the cloture widget can come into play before a bill is brought to the floor, on voting for any amendment or even for all amendments, if all of them are controversial, and on final passage. Here's a purely hypothetical scenario:

  1. Leader moves to proceed to a bill
    • There is objection (this is impossible for some bills, but not this one)
    • Cloture motion filed to surmount the objection
    • Cloture passes with 60+ votes
    • There is a vote or agreement to proceed to the bill (majority of votes present is adequate to pass the motion)
  2. The bill is debated. There is a unanimous consent request to vote on passing an amendment
    • There is objection to curtailing the right to unlimited debate
    • Cloture motion filed to surmount the objection
    • Cloture passes with 60+ votes
    • There is a vote on the amendment - a majority of votes present is adequate to pass the amendment
  3. There is a unanimous consent request to vote on passing the bill
    • There is objection to curtailing the right to unlimited debate
    • Cloture motion filed to surmount the objection
    • Cloture passes with 60+ votes
    • There is a vote on the bill - a majority of votes present is adequate to pass the bill

If cloture does NOT pass, that means unlimited debate can go on. Sometimes the leader keeps the same point as the object of debate before the Senate (even to the point of having multiple cloture motions and votes on exactly the same point of contention), sometimes the leader takes a failure to get 60 votes as a cue to withdraw "whatever" it is that is being objected to.

267 posted on 11/21/2009 12:23:50 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: mojitojoe; Michael Barnes
If this passes, we are out of here.

There's a time to quit, and a time to fight.

Here's the thing: If neither of you recognizes the global march to socialism Marxism and simply chooses to run away, eventually it'll catch up to you and eat you alive. It's like feeding an alligator - it only leaves you alone as long as you have someone else to feed it. When you run out of other people the alligator knows it's your turn to be his lunch.

Your choice is to Stand and fight with the rest of us, or run and become alligator food later.

Your choice, go look in the mirror and figure out which you can live with.

268 posted on 11/21/2009 12:25:14 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: acoulterfan
If we are going to be taxed “to death” for the first 4 yearss without ANY beneifts until the 5th year what is to keep us from voting the traitors out?

Two words...

TAX REVOLT!

269 posted on 11/21/2009 12:26:29 PM PST by unixfox (The 13th Amendment Abolished Slavery, The 16th Amendment Reinstated It !)
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To: jessduntno
Hand delivery was specified...not payment in full...

My bad on the assumption. Gotcha, I'm with ya.

270 posted on 11/21/2009 12:26:34 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: mwl8787

Thanks for your explanation.


271 posted on 11/21/2009 12:28:57 PM PST by wvguy (Montani semper liberi)
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To: unixfox
I don't see how they can expect the economy to pick up if they keep adding new taxes for us to pay? Any idiot should know when we pay more taxes we have less money to spend.

sw

272 posted on 11/21/2009 12:31:30 PM PST by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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To: Cboldt

hmmm....


273 posted on 11/21/2009 12:31:41 PM PST by Recovering_Democrat
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To: usconservative
Not paying them at all would be a better option, don't you think? "National Tax Revolt - April 15th: Revenge Of The Taxpayers."

This is the ONLY way to get rid of these traitorous bastards! We have to starve the beast! We stop sending them OUR money, we stop filing tax returns, we max out deductions and finally...

WE TELL THEM ALL TO GO STRAIGHT TO HELL!!

274 posted on 11/21/2009 12:31:44 PM PST by unixfox (The 13th Amendment Abolished Slavery, The 16th Amendment Reinstated It !)
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To: unixfox

Now That’s what I call Taxation without Representation.


275 posted on 11/21/2009 12:31:46 PM PST by MajorThomas (Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.)
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To: All

Liberman had been telling us he WAS GOING TO FILLABUSTER WITH THE REPUBLICANS. ANY ONE KNOW WHAT CHANGED HIS MIND???


276 posted on 11/21/2009 12:33:01 PM PST by paul revere is riding
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To: Sarah Barracuda

Ben Nelson from my home state of Nebraska is just as much a whore for the Dems. He say one thing in Nebraska and votes exactly opposite of that in Washington and these stupid people keep electing that tool bag.


277 posted on 11/21/2009 12:33:50 PM PST by Newbomb Turk (Live From Iraq and still kickin a$$ and spreading sweet freedom)
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To: paul revere is riding
Do we know that for a fact?

sw

278 posted on 11/21/2009 12:33:50 PM PST by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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To: paul revere is riding

He just wanted the attention. He is a democrat after all.


279 posted on 11/21/2009 12:35:53 PM PST by Blogger
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To: MajorThomas
we max out deductions and finally...

I have two kids, a stay at home wife and a home that's paid for. I don't owe anyone anything, my only expenses are my monthly living costs (food, electricity, etc..) The day after Obama was elected, I changed my withholding to 10. I'm not giving the Government my money, period.

My suggestion: Everyone reading this thread change their withholding for 2010 to the maximum they comfortably can and keep as much of their money as possible. The amount you'd expect to pay in taxes (look at the previous year's W2) put in the bank and wait until next Tax Day.

Don't ever give this Government your money a second before you absolutely, positively have to. If they had to wait until April 15th to get ANY of our tax dollars it sure as hell would change their behavior.

280 posted on 11/21/2009 12:35:57 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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