Can't be too careful with the enemies of the revolution, you see.
Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.
Posted on 11/21/2009 2:24:33 PM PST by UnBubba
I hold an executive position at a private corporation located on Long Island, NY (250+ employees). On Thursday, November 19, 2009, two casually dressed gentlemen showed up at our facility (unannounced) and asked for the Human Resource Manager.
They, unilaterally, determined that our company had a connection to the public safety and national security concerns of the United States. As such, they are requiring us to provide them with 100% of the Form I-9 - Employment Eligibility Verifications for all our current employees and employees who have been terminated within the past 12 months.
The purpose of the form is for an employer to determine if each new employee hired after 11-6-86 is authorized to work in the United States. This form is not filed with any government agency, but must be maintained by the employer.
On this form a newly hired employeey must list their name, maiden name, address, SS#, DOB, proclaim their citizen status (under the penalty of perjury) and provide sufficient documentation to prove they are qualified to work in the United States. Qualified documentation includes passport, driver's license, voter registration card, U.S. military card, school report card, birth certificate and many more obscure proofs of ID.
Homeland Security (ICE - Immigration and Custom Enforcement Division) wants a copy of all these I-9 forms within 2 weeks.
I am very interested in the opinion of my fellow Freeper's regarding this issue.
I think it’s good that someone is looking at those I-9s. You are required to maintain them for a reason...
Homeland Security is a big new government expansion. It does nothing to protect us and will become a monster. Our only hope is a bankruptcy of such magnitude that the Federal Government goes out of Biz. The FBI was supposed to watch out for foriegn agents if I recall.
If they used this info to DEPORT any illegal, I might not be too suspicious about it. Unfortunately, they likely will do nothing with it.
I-9 is the Reagan era citizenship verification form and is one of the only commonly used instrument used to check employment eligibility during the hiring phase. If the Feds are just now showing an interest, I say to things- 1) About time and 2) what took you so long?
Under Bush, the former question, because they were looking for terrorists on his watch. Under Obama, the latter question, I’m not convinced he is, or at least not to the intensity of Bush’s administration. Afterall, all cultures are equal and diversity is a good thing, so why make assumptions about a group that is committing violence everywhere else in the world, as well as here? Nothing to see here, move on......
My question to you would be, does your company hire illegal aliens? If your answer is absolutely not, I too would be concerned about what they are up to.
If your company does hire illegal aliens, shame on them for creating a security risk and in which case the government is not impeding on your freedom. Employing illegal aliens is illegal.
We verify EVERY employee as to their status in Arizona. As a result, hordes of illegals have left Arizona for Mexico or *chuckle* California.
I don’t remember, are photocopies of the proof of ID included in the information kept with the I-9’s?
Maybe there is a threat that they aren’t telling us about.
U.S. immigration officials put an unprecedented 1,000 businesses — including 42 in the Houston metro area — on notice Thursday that their paperwork would be inspected to make sure they don't employ illegal immigrants.The announcement marks the largest round of immigration-related business audits ever, and the latest in an ongoing Department of Homeland Security campaign to create a “culture of compliance” with immigration law among employers, Immigration and Customs Enforcement Assistant Secretary John Morton said Thursday.
The audits will target businesses ICE has identified as being associated with the nation's “critical infrastructure,” which includes some industries key to Texas — oil, transportation, medicine, public health and finance. During an audit, ICE reviews the I-9 forms that all employers must use to document the eligibility of new workers.
ICE officials declined to identify the companies being targeted, but a total of 161 Texas businesses were served with notices that they will be audited. More than half of the Houston-area companies targeted employ more than 50 people, and 28 percent have more than 100 on their payrolls, ICE officials said.
If you want to go further, your company can voluntarily participate in employee verification.
I think it’s just more government snooping and harrassment. Why isn’t ICE looking into this?
I suspect that Homeland Security is becoming Bambi’s enforcement wing.
As it is a public document, why the heck not? Just a thought.
.... they are requiring us to provide them with 100% of the Form I-9 - Employment Eligibility Verifications for all our current employees and employees who have been terminated within the past 12 months.ICE wants a copy of all these I-9 forms within 2 weeks.
Tell them to pound sand until they produce a Search Warrant signed by a Federal Judge and they put it in your hand. Tell them its due to that little that 4th Amendment thingy.
Forth Amendment:And you may want to remind them -- just for fun -- that Obama isn't King, they ain't Dukes or Earls, and Martial Law hasn't been declared.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Tell them to go get a warrant and then comply with a smile.
To answer a previous poster's question - No, we do not hire "illegals" (i.e.; individuals who are not legally allowed to work in the United States). What makes me uncomfortable is that the government will now have detailed information about 100% of the employees who work at my company. WHY???
Note: The following text is a quote:
http://www.ice.gov/pi/nr/0911/091119washingtondc2.htm
November 19, 2009
ICE Assistant Secretary John Morton announces 1,000 new workplace audits to hold employers accountable for their hiring practices
WASHINGTON-U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Assistant Secretary John Morton today announced the issuance of Notices of Inspection (NOIs) to 1,000 employers across the country associated with critical infrastructure-alerting business owners that ICE will audit their hiring records to determine compliance with employment eligibility verification laws.
“ICE is focused on finding and penalizing employers who believe they can unfairly get ahead by cultivating illegal workplaces,” said Assistant Secretary Morton. “We are increasing criminal and civil enforcement of immigration-related employment laws and imposing smart, tough employer sanctions to even the playing field for employers who play by the rules.”
The 1,000 businesses served with audit notices this week were selected for inspection as a result of investigative leads and intelligence and because of the business’ connection to public safety and national security-for example, privately owned critical infrastructure and key resources. The names and locations of the businesses will not be released at this time due to the ongoing, law enforcement sensitive nature of these audits.
Audits involve a comprehensive review of Form I-9s, which employers are required to complete and retain for each individual hired in the United States. I-9 forms require employers to review and record each individual’s identity and work eligibility document(s) and determine whether the document(s) reasonably appear to be genuine and related to that specific individual.
Protecting employment opportunities for the nation’s lawful workforce and targeting employers who knowingly employ an illegal workforce are major ICE priorities, for which ICE employs all available civil and administrative tools, including audits. Audits may result in civil penalties and lay the groundwork for criminal prosecution of employers who knowingly violate the law.
In April, DHS issued updated worksite enforcement guidance emphasizing ICE’s major enforcement priorities-specifically focusing on dangerous criminal aliens and employers who cultivate illegal workplaces by breaking the country’s laws and knowingly hiring illegal workers. In this strategy, ICE identified form I-9 audits as the most important administrative tool in building criminal cases and bringing employers into compliance with the law.
Statistics since implementation of new ICE worksite enforcement strategy on April 30:
45 businesses and 47 individuals debarred;
0 businesses and 1 individual were debarred during same period in FY 2008.
142 Notices of Intent to Fine (NIF) totaling $15,865,181;
ICE issued 32 NIFs totaling $2,355,330 in all of FY 2008.
45 Final Orders totaling $798,179;
ICE issued eight Final Orders totaling $196,523 during the same period in FY 2008.
1,897 cases initiated;
ICE initiated 605 cases during the same period in FY 2008.
1,069 Form I-9 Inspections;
ICE initiated 503 Form I-9 Inspections in all of FY 2008.
In July, ICE issued 654 NOIs to businesses nationwide in the largest operation of its kind before today - part of ICE’s effort to audit businesses suspected of using illegal labor.
Statistics resulting from the 654 audits announced in July:
ICE agents reviewed more than 85,000 Form I-9s and identified more than 14,000 suspect documents - approximately 16 percent of the total number reviewed.
To date, 61 NIFs have been issued, resulting in $2,310,255 in fines. In addition, 267 cases are currently being considered for Notices of Intent to Fine (NIFs).
ICE closed 326 cases after businesses were found to be in compliance with employment laws or after businesses were served with a Warning Notice in expectation of future compliance.
For more information, visit www.ice.gov.
— ICE —
As a retired defense company contractor, I can tell you that all of us have been subject to these inspections for many years. Unless you have been hiring illegal aliens to work in your business, you should be happy that the government is auditing private industry to insure compliance with our laws.
In my opinion, the only straight-forward way of ridding our country of illegals is to enforce our employment laws. It is high time that any and every employer of illegals is prosecuted. Once these employers realize the risk, they will stop, illegals will no longer be able to find jobs other than as nannys and housekeepers, and most will return to Mexico and elsewhere. Problem solved without having to try and round up millions of illegals. However, do not hold your breath waiting for our corrupt government to enforce this law.
If they used the same procedure for everyone running for president and right to vote, I would say yes.
I agree, it’s a good thing those are looked at...but they should have announced the visit for sure.
I’ve never had to allow or provide a copy of the documentation for the I-9. I use my passport, and all they record are the Passport ID number and the personal data as it’s recorded within. If I recall correctly, even an expired passport is a valid document, because it includes a photo, as long as it is identifiable as you.
Maybe they’ll show up at the White House.
Can't be too careful with the enemies of the revolution, you see.
Probably canvassing for business that SEIU can target for unionization...that would be my guess. If you have enough illegals then SEIU will soon visit.
Its good, but not foolproof.
I overheard a conversation where a Hispanic looking gentleman was talking to his friend about I-9’s and SS cards and said that people can get more than one SS number. The friend was a wee bit more savvy (not much as from another country) and said that they thought only one SS number could be issued. This was certainly “news” to the friend who thought that SS numbers were infinite.
What I gathered from the conversation is that it was not malicious, but the amount of fraud is SO incredibly pervasive that people just don’t know the law and the misinformation and the people who are profiting in the community from that misinformation is enormous.
You are correct, sir.
were these the dreaded “men in black”?
Yup, we got most of them in California. Sanctuary cities like San Francisco loves them. LA not to far behind.
I don't think so, unless they changed their mode of attire. They looked like they were wearing "Members Only" jackets. I was tempted to ask them if they were the last members, but I recalled that discretion is the better part of valor.
If you are not hiring illegal aliens there should be no problem something has to be done about the illegals.
I left there in 2006.......right before the collapse I saw coming.
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All of this depends on whether or not you support illegal immigration. If you do not, as I do not, then you have to be willing to accept some sort of mechanism to identify illegal aliens. The best way to do this is to require employers to screen employees, after all these folks are here for jobs.
If employers are hiring illegals, and/or failing to keep records, then they can be fined or worse. No different than being required to follow building codes or OHSA regs, IMO.
My employer made me fill out an I-9, required that I show a passport (or other document), made a copy of my passport for their records, and I was good to go. I suspect that the government already has a copy of my passport, so I don’t think that I was at great risk by doing this. If every other employer were doing this, our illegal immigration problem would be solved pronto. It seems that outside the defense industry, enforcement of this requirement may be the exception, not the rule.
Well...not exactly. This is a government revenue enhancement push. They will cite this employer for all kinds of “paperwork violations” regardless of whether a single employee is found to be illegal. The company will probably be fined a hefty amount. The I-9 is one of the most flawed forms ever produced and HR managers nationwide have trouble complying with the regulations. If the government really wants to dig around and fine a company on I-9 compliance they can.
Get something in writing that requests the forms. Be sure you’re giving them to the government. It’s not a bad law at all. It takes away nobody’s freedom, except the illegal alien’s freedom to violate laws!
Cheers!
It is pretty easy for them to get that now isn't it? It is pretty hard to know what they will do with it too.
Maybe the gub’mint needs to know who these illegals are so they can sign them up for health care.
How did you determine they were legit and were who they said they were? Can I show up and ask for that information and get it?
How did you determine they were legit and were who they said they were? Can I show up and ask for that information and get it?
Whoa. Freaky double post there. Apologies to all. Lesson learned: don’t hit the post button a second time even if it looks like nothing happened.
I’m not sure how you are concerned. This law has been on the books for decades. It was instituted to protect American workers and employers from illegal immigration.
If you are in compliance ...what’s the concern here. I am sorry, but so far, I don’t see a substantiated issue. Have you had numerous HR folks and are unsure of compliance?
We squeel and squawk when the laws are not enforced and we squeel and squawk when they are. You see we often don’t make any sense whatsoever in our demands. Enforce the law just NIMBY?
Thank you.
I work in HR, and there are guidelines listed on the I-9’s as to what documents are permissible. You can present a Passport without any other documentation, or you can present a valid driver’s license AND an original SS card, or an original birth certificate And SS card. I am glad that Homeland Security is scrutinizing the I-9’s. We do keep copies of the documents, but how do we know if the required documents are authentic or forged? There are some applicants that come in that make you wonder...
they’re doing that right now here in Vermont and going around to all the dairy farms looking at records . I for one think it’s a good idea but Homeland Security? Why not give it to the IRS? they’re the one whol’ll be collecting from you on healthcare anyway lololol
I too was wondering why an administration like Obama’s would show such a sudden interest in these laws and try to enforce them.
I think I found the answer in Post #20 of this thread. It’s a moneymaking thing. Last year the government didn’t make any money off of fining business for having illegal aliens at work, but THIS year, look how much money they’ve collected already! I just wonder where this fine money is supposed to go, since they are so compassionate and all.
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