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Stop the Hysteria: The Vote on Health Care Bill Is Long From Being Over
November 21 2009 | jeveritas

Posted on 11/21/2009 7:26:17 PM PST by jveritas

Today healthcare vote in the Senate was so badly represented by many on our side and of course by the media and was blown way out of proportion. In reality it is a meaningless vote. The vote today was only to start the debate and it is absolutely does not guarantee at all that the current bill in the Senate with it current version of public option aka socialized medicine is going to pass. In fact as it stands now this current bill is assured to be defeated because the socialists are not going to get 60 votes for cloture to end the debate and hence they cannot move the bill for a final vote. In other words the bill in its current form is dead.

Senator Lieberman has said so many times, very clearly, and very adamantly that he is going to filibuster an end for the debate as long as it has any form of public option and he also said many times that he was going to vote to allow the start of the debate as he did today. That is why Senator Lieberman has been for weeks the most hated person among the left wing lunatics. Many people misunderstood and misinterpreted what he has been saying and thought that Lieberman did not follow through on what he said he was going to do.

Senator Olympia Snowe has said that she is going to filibuster an end to the debate on this current healthcare bill if it contains the current form of public option. She wants a trigger public option which in practical political terms a meaningless thing that will never be triggered. In fact today she even voted against the start of the debate.

Now some will say that if the socialists do not get 60 votes to end the debate and move the bill for a final vote then they are going to use reconciliation or the so called “nuclear option”. This is very unlikely because for the use of reconciliation the bill has to go back to the budget committee or finance committee where it is going to be watered down significantly and just includes the insignificant trigger public option or a trigger co-op. Even very left wing Senators like Tom Harkin said that reconciliation will be a very bad thing to do.

What is the most likely scenario?

Most probably they are going to be able to pass a healthcare bill that contains a trigger public option or a trigger co-op which in all practical form is a meaningless gesture because it is not going to be triggered at all in the future. This is the bill that will go to Obama to sign it into law, the democrat politicians and their media will celebrate but their left wing lunatic base will go insane in a way that will shock many. The left wing lunatic base wants a strong public option (aka socialized medicine) as a minimum and is very much against a trigger public option or a trigger co-op because they know very well that the trigger means absolutely nothing and when this happens the left wing lunatic base is going to explode in total anger against the democrat party.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 111th; commiehealthcare; deathcare; democrats; healthcare; mccainordie; nothealthcare; obamacare; socializedmedicine
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1 posted on 11/21/2009 7:26:20 PM PST by jveritas
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To: jveritas

The Dems will push something through. They have to in order to appease their far-left base.


2 posted on 11/21/2009 7:29:35 PM PST by jerry557
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To: jveritas

Hang on. I was under the impression that this WAS the 60 member vote. That from here on out, they need 51 votes. Are you saying there’s still one more 60 head vote....where Libermann could come through? Really?


3 posted on 11/21/2009 7:29:42 PM PST by mockingbyrd (Sarah speaks for me!)
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To: jveritas

I hope you’re right. Otherwise, I only see three more or less equally likely possibilities: this horror passes and the country goes bankrupt, this horror passes and the country falls into civil war, or this horror fails when the House and Senate cannot agree. I’m surprised by how little the first two options bother me.


4 posted on 11/21/2009 7:29:50 PM PST by TurtleUp ([...Insert today's quote from Community-Organizer-in-Chief...] - Obama, YOU LIE!)
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To: jveritas

Hope you are right.


5 posted on 11/21/2009 7:30:25 PM PST by avacado
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To: jveritas

tru dat. No panic yet.


6 posted on 11/21/2009 7:31:17 PM PST by NEPAConservative (http://news-political.com/)
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To: mockingbyrd

They need 60 votes to end the debate before the 51 vote deal.


7 posted on 11/21/2009 7:31:20 PM PST by avacado
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To: jveritas

Seldom dose a bill that makes it out of committee ever fail. Yes, panic is in order.


8 posted on 11/21/2009 7:31:27 PM PST by doc1019 (Obama, not so much.)
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To: mockingbyrd

You are pinning all your hope on a Liberal Democrat. I think they will Weasel and squirm their way in to some kind of unholy disgusting deal no matter what. Polecats and Varments never change.


9 posted on 11/21/2009 7:32:35 PM PST by screaminsunshine (!!)
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To: jveritas

THANK YOU for your post!!!


10 posted on 11/21/2009 7:33:18 PM PST by diamond6 (Expose Planned Parenthood: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYaTywSDmls)
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To: mockingbyrd
That from here on out, they need 51 votes. Are you saying there’s still one more 60 head vote....where Libermann could come through? Really?

Reid has said he is not going to do reconciliation (51 vote tactic). Of course, we know he is a RAT so can go back on his word in an instant.

Today's vote was a vote to bring the bill forward for debate. We have yet to go thru the debate process and the REAL vote to pass the legislation. The real vote is where Lieberman could come thru and stop this thing.

11 posted on 11/21/2009 7:33:28 PM PST by what's up
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To: jerry557

It’s a done deal , despite all the phony drama .


12 posted on 11/21/2009 7:35:01 PM PST by sushiman
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To: mockingbyrd
Of course they still need 60 votes to end the debate. In fact the real filibuster that occurs often, kills many bills, that we often hear about is the one about ending the debate not starting it.

This bill with it current public option does not have 60 vote for cloture to end the debate and move it for a final vote. That is a certainty.

13 posted on 11/21/2009 7:35:41 PM PST by jveritas (God Bless our brave troops)
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To: NEPAConservative

To parody that line from Gone with the Wind: “It’s panic time when I SAYS it’s panic time. Panic time!”


14 posted on 11/21/2009 7:35:50 PM PST by 1951Boomer
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To: jveritas

What’s to stop them from buying every needed vote? They’ve all got their price. $300 million, $500 million? Whatever, it’s only taxpayer money.


15 posted on 11/21/2009 7:36:17 PM PST by The Good Doctor (Democracy is the only system where you can vote for a tax that you can avoid the obligation to pay.)
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To: what's up

They are going to push the health care nationalization through by hook and crook because they want control. It is time that the posters at the tea parties read, RESIGN NOW!


16 posted on 11/21/2009 7:36:38 PM PST by Wooly
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To: jerry557
They will pass what I called the “most likely scenario” which is a trigger public option or trigger co-op. This will drive the left wing base insane because they are very much against a trigger public option or trigger co-op.
17 posted on 11/21/2009 7:37:01 PM PST by jveritas (God Bless our brave troops)
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To: doc1019

Many bills have been killed even when they are of committee. I do not know where you are getting your data.


18 posted on 11/21/2009 7:39:04 PM PST by jveritas (God Bless our brave troops)
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To: doc1019

Many bills have been killed even when they are of committee. I do not know where you are getting your data.


19 posted on 11/21/2009 7:39:09 PM PST by jveritas (God Bless our brave troops)
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To: jveritas

Thanks for the thoughtful post.
Any Dem Senators in VA up for election in 2010?

I wonder if Lou Dobbs can run and win in NJ?

Will Rudy get off the fence against Gillibrand or better George Pataki?


20 posted on 11/21/2009 7:39:42 PM PST by Frantzie (Judge David Carter - democrat & dishonorable Marine like John Murtha.)
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To: jveritas
trigger public option or a trigger co-op which in all practical form is a meaningless gesture because it is not going to be triggered at all in the future

Not sure why you think a trigger provision will not lead to the public option.

The condition for not implementing the trigger is that health costs must come down. There's no reason to think that health costs will come down in the private sector without reform...which is why many think the trigger will be inevitable.

I agree with you that the left is going to be pretty mad if only the trigger passes into law with no public option.

21 posted on 11/21/2009 7:40:24 PM PST by what's up
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To: diamond6
You are most welcome. I am just stating basic facts and cutting through the fog of panic, hysteria, wrong facts, and irrationality that I have been seeing on FR regarding the Senate vote today.
22 posted on 11/21/2009 7:40:58 PM PST by jveritas (God Bless our brave troops)
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To: mockingbyrd

I hope so.


23 posted on 11/21/2009 7:41:52 PM PST by television is just wrong (one big ass mistake America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: jveritas
-- In fact the real filibuster that occurs often, kills many bills, that we often hear about is the one about ending the debate not starting it. --

More common recently, but happened back in Clinton era too, is killing a bill at the motion to proceed stage.

For each of these pages, search for the word "proceed"

Senate Votes - 111th Congress, 1st Session
Senate Votes - 110th Congress, 2nd Session
Senate Votes - 110th Congress, 1st Session

24 posted on 11/21/2009 7:42:23 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: jveritas

Not under the current Democrat regime. If it makes it out of committee, it gets passed.


25 posted on 11/21/2009 7:42:37 PM PST by doc1019 (Obama, not so much.)
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To: jveritas

Maybe you will be right. Nevertheless, this God forsaken bill took one giant leap toward law today.

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.


26 posted on 11/21/2009 7:43:16 PM PST by jjm1776 (Pro-life, Pro-Gun, Pro-America.)
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To: what's up; mockingbyrd
We have yet to go thru the debate process and the REAL vote to pass the legislation. The real vote is where Lieberman could come thru and stop this thing.

Not exactly the case.

This vote was to open debate. Since the GOP announced a filibuster, it required 60 votes rather than the normal majority to open debate.

The next vote on the entire bill (including any amendments which might pass in the meantime) will be for cloture -- to close debate. That will require another 60 votes.

If it receives them, debate then ceases and they will then move for passage of the bill -- which would require only 51 votes.

If the cloture vote doesn't get 60 votes, then debate technically continues. But the practical effect will be to table the bill.

So, the cloture vote is critical -- essentially our last chance. There is little doubt that Dingy Harry can line up at least 50 Democrats to vote "yea" (Joe Biden could break a 50-50 tie).

Be careful, though, of Democrats who a.) vote for cloture, then b.) vote against the bill. There is room for as many as ten to do so -- which would allow the duplicitous SOBs to claim that they "voted against the health care bill".

27 posted on 11/21/2009 7:43:22 PM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: jveritas

Enemies of freedom and enemies of this country....every last one of them.


28 posted on 11/21/2009 7:44:09 PM PST by Swede Girl
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To: jveritas

Enemies of freedom and enemies of this country....every last one of them.


29 posted on 11/21/2009 7:44:12 PM PST by Swede Girl
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To: jveritas

All this is true but they no longer listen us. They have to go. Carefully because we will oust ours and they will keep theirs. Term imits perod.


30 posted on 11/21/2009 7:44:59 PM PST by PROTESTBYPROXY (Conservatives must man up!!)
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To: jveritas
In my view, the so called “public option” trigger or no trigger has always been a red herring, a ruse of sorts. What the leftists really want is a mandate. The mandate ensures control over the populace and then, when fully implemented, the public option will come. Look for the head fake of “alright, we'll concede on the public option, but we've still got to lower costs, thus making sure everyone is covered is a good first step.” The leftists will claim a victory of sorts,Obama will sign it and the die will be cast.
31 posted on 11/21/2009 7:45:10 PM PST by mek1959
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To: Frantzie

You are most welcome. Virginia does not have any Senate race in 2010. NJ has one and New York has one. I hope that Giuliani will win the Senate race in 2010. He is not a 100% conservative but he will be much better than anything we have seen from New York in a very long time. He is strong on national security, strong on defense, and fiscally conservative but he is socially liberal.


32 posted on 11/21/2009 7:45:25 PM PST by jveritas (God Bless our brave troops)
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To: jveritas

Not so fast there... I heard a report today that of bills that reach the Senate - and are voted by 60 votes to be brought to the floor for debate - average a 97-98 percent PASS RATE upon final vote... In other words - if in the Senate - a bill makes it to the floor - passage later is almost assured...

So much for process...


33 posted on 11/21/2009 7:46:07 PM PST by ICCtheWay
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To: TurtleUp

That’s because you’ve arrived the same place I’m in.

That’s the realization that my america is already dead...a dead man walking to be precise. If there is one more delay for execution...or not, what difference does it really make?


34 posted on 11/21/2009 7:46:32 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Pray for Obama...Psalms 109:8)
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To: jveritas

Giuliani is fiscally moderate, but would still be an improvement over Gillebrand.


35 posted on 11/21/2009 7:47:33 PM PST by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
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To: jveritas

Headfake. They fully intend to make this a Communist government and take over.

Arm Up! They Are!


36 posted on 11/21/2009 7:51:14 PM PST by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: jveritas

Headfake. They fully intend to make this a Communist government and take over.

Arm Up! They Are!


37 posted on 11/21/2009 7:51:14 PM PST by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: jveritas
Senator Lieberman has said so many times, very clearly, and very adamantly that he is going to filibuster an end for the debate as long as it has any form of public option and he also said many times that he was going to vote to allow the start of the debate as he did today.

People need to understand something about LIEberman. He has a history throughout his career of claiming to take one position on an issue while supporting an entirely different position. It is how he was reelected. He just pulled the same stunt by supporting cloture and people are falling for his act just as they did during his last campaign.

Beyond that point, people need to apply some common sense. When given the chance to kill the bill by merely voting against cloture or allowing it to proceed only to face the much more arduous task of spending several hours speaking on the Senate floor to kill the bill, which one would a reasonable and prudent person choose? A prudent person would reasonably choose the former.

People need to also remember the purpose of cloture is to end or prevent debate. Reid wanted cloture for this purpose knowing the more debate the worse it is to pass socialist health care. Given this fact, he wouldn't have pushed for cloture if he didn't already have a plan in mind to severely restrict debate at the next step in the process.

This whole process doesn't pass the smell test. Something doesn't add up. We've seen some slick maneuvering to bribe Senators into supporting cloture. More behind the scene slick maneuvering will occur to prevent any in-depth analysis and everyone will wonder how could this happen all over again. Assuming otherwise is being naive. Make no mistake this was far more than just a procedural vote. It was confirmation there is enough support the bill all through the process.
38 posted on 11/21/2009 7:51:22 PM PST by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it! www.FairTaxNation.com)
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To: ICCtheWay
I heard this theory as well but in this case we have the following facts:

Lieberman is certain to vote against ending debate on any bill that contains the public option.

Snowe is certain to vote against ending debate on the current version of the public option.

Based on those two facts above it is certain the socialists do not have the 60 votes required to end the debate and move the bill with it current version of public option for a final vote. Therefore the current bill with the public option version it contains is DEAD.

39 posted on 11/21/2009 7:51:54 PM PST by jveritas (God Bless our brave troops)
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To: jveritas

There is plenty to be upset about. The mere fact that these radical, power-mad nutcases have pushed this horror story this far says so. They fully intend to control YOUR LIFE, YOUR HEALTH, YOUR WEALTH, and any remaining American freedoms that will be left.

America better get real upset real fast about this.


40 posted on 11/21/2009 7:52:22 PM PST by EagleUSA
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To: mockingbyrd
There would be a cloture vote to end debate for final vote, but those who say this first cloture vote is only a step to get debate on the bill to the Senate floor are cynically over looking that most bills that get far get passed. They all Know how it works.

Reid on Verge of Clearing Senate Health-Bill Hurdle

"...The Congressional Research Service released an analysis that found only one instance between 1999 and 2008 when Senate legislation failed after the chamber voted to end a so-called filibuster on a motion to debate a bill. That was a measure designed to protect gun manufacturers from lawsuits that was rejected in 2004.

“When the Senate invoked cloture on a measure itself, it almost always proceeded to a final vote on the measure and passed it,” CRS analysts wrote to Senator Tom Coburn, an Oklahoma Republican who requested the study....."

41 posted on 11/21/2009 7:52:45 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: jveritas

Jan 19 is another chance to send the RATS a message.It's the special election to replace Ted Kennedy. Imagine if the voters are so mad the RATS lose the seat in MASSACHUSETTS? It would not only strip them of the critical 60th vote but truly terrorize the Rats and Rino's.

Of course a win would be absolutely unprecedented but then again with 17% real unemployment , the Country hugely in debt and a power hungry congress intent on ignoring the People I think we have a chance. The real problem is putting an end to "the fix". They WILL try and steal it.

If you live in Mass. volunteer to be an election judge and get to know election law. Work in a RAT district . They probably don't have many Republicans there. Learn how elections are stolen and what to look for. Pulling out a win in this hornets nest of commies would be just the thing to save America.

42 posted on 11/21/2009 7:53:58 PM PST by Nateman (If liberals aren't screaming you're doing it wrong.)
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To: jveritas

I thought Pataki might run too. I saw him on election night before I dumped Tv service. The savings is going towards 2010 donations. Pataki was pretty good on Fox.
He seems like a geniunely nice fellow.

I wonder if Bret Schundler could run in NJ. Good guy, conservative who has been treated badly by the RINO GOP. Maybe Christie’s campaign can work to get a good guy or gal in NJ.


43 posted on 11/21/2009 7:54:14 PM PST by Frantzie (Judge David Carter - democrat & dishonorable Marine like John Murtha.)
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To: mamelukesabre
WOW, you have already surrendered. I have not and a tens of millions of other Patriotic Americans have not surrendered and we will never surrender. Your defeatism is totally un-American.
44 posted on 11/21/2009 7:54:32 PM PST by jveritas (God Bless our brave troops)
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To: okie01
If it receives them, debate then ceases and they will then move for passage of the bill -- which would require only 51 votes.

True.

45 posted on 11/21/2009 7:55:13 PM PST by what's up
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To: Nateman

If the Republican wins the Senate seat in the most liberal state in the Union, Massachusetts, then the absolute and massive fear among the democrats on the national level will be something that has not been seen ever before, the democrats in Congress would realize then that it is over for them in 2010 and Obama will become the earliest lamest duck President in history.


46 posted on 11/21/2009 7:58:11 PM PST by jveritas (God Bless our brave troops)
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To: mockingbyrd; Congressman Billybob

Can you help out with this?


47 posted on 11/21/2009 7:59:01 PM PST by mojo114
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To: jveritas

The Democratic Party will NOT, I repeat will NOT allow their cherished health care plan to be derailed. Trust me, there will be a health care bill signed sealed and delivered before the midterm elections. Yeh, all kinds of things have to happen for it to become law, but it will happen. They CANNOT afford to lose the griphold they have on our country or risk their control to be loosened in any way. To the Democrats, POWER is their major motivation and if something happened to their bill it would be completely unacceptable to their major special interests (e.g. organized labor, feminists, blacks, environmentalists, and socialists). Not being pessimistic...just realistic!


48 posted on 11/21/2009 7:59:15 PM PST by Brandonmark (News Coverage)
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To: Frantzie
Pataki is good as well. I do not know who from our side will be running in New Jersey but if they elect someone who is at least fiscally conservative and strong on national security then we have a much better situation from we get from the current New Jersey Senators.
49 posted on 11/21/2009 8:00:46 PM PST by jveritas (God Bless our brave troops)
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To: jveritas

Agreed that there is one more 60-threshold vote, but this vote too should have been stalled. One has to use every tactic to prevent socialism. I am not as hopeful as you are for the final vote. I think Olympia Snowe will defect and use Lieberman’s defection in this round as an excuse. They won’t take responsibility for ushering in socialism and will point that they voted against the bill in one of the two cloture votes.


50 posted on 11/21/2009 8:01:55 PM PST by JimWayne
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