Posted on 11/23/2009 10:13:46 AM PST by originalbuckeye
The park service has been doing this for decades. It’s 2009(almost 2010), and they are just NOW going to a FAX system. Govt. run health care anyone?
For many reasons, I detest the Park Service.
Oh CC guy, btw, forgot to tell you, your country has ceased to exist. Heard you were wondering.
I got a permit for the Mt. Whitney trail through their lottery system. I had to send in my date and alternates in February and found out my time in April. Worked great...of course I got a date.
Remember, while some parks are huge in size, as a practical matter there are limited trails that can be used by the public. So they try to limit the number of people in the backcountry to protect both the resource and the user experience.
I guess the Park thinks having crowds of people camping below the rim degrades the campsites and the experience for everybody. I’ve day-hiked for miles below the Grand Canyon rim. I saw a few other hikers. No problem. But I didn’t camp.
I can understand limiting hikers to a fragile ecological area or areas where multitudes of hikers would degrade the attraction. I don’t know whether under the rim at the Grand Canyon qualifies as that fragile.
Other parks use an on-line reservation system for hikes/camping in remote areas. I’ve found that easy enough to use, but I did have to adjust the days I hiked to those where permits were still available.
Sometimes there are only a few places where it is safe to camp (e.g, high ground inside a slot canyon) and that can limit the number of people allowed to camp. I don’t see that as a problem for camping below the rim at the Grand Canyon, except maybe for boaters camping on sandbars along the river itself. Being a white-water river person myself, I’m for opening up the permit system for Grand Canyon river trips to allow more non-commercial trips.
Most of the National Parks have reached the state of “not worth the hassle.”
What?!! They don't have an online system...YET!!!!??? They should have done this YEARS ago!!
Geeze! Fasten your seat belts folks. This is how our national health care will work.
I agree. As a bow hunting and wood burning family who always have the permits we have run into more "Green uniformed Barney Fifes" than I care to remember.
Having to wait 9 years to get a private party permit to float the Grand Canyon is absurd. I admit that there is a need for commercial outfitters, but they are allocated the majority of the permits for people willing to shell out 4 grand to go on a splash and giggle trip, usually with huge motorized catamarans. Not that there is anything wrong with that, except those willing to pay big bucks get instant access, while private parties have to keep applying year after year until their number comes up. I think if you want to use a commercial outfitter you should also have to wait with the rest of the noncommercial river rats.
I have been running rivers most of my life and would love to run Lava Falls before I perish, however I most likely will stick to other rivers where it is easier to draw a permit.
Same here, and historical reenactor. The Park Service employs people, many of whom know little about US history and less about public relations.
The rules are idiotic.
I have requested over a dozen backcountry permits for the Grand Canyon over the last five years and it’s not such a big hassle. Fax in request and a few days later I get my permit in the mail. If you choose to go at peak times you may or may not get in, but I’ve never been denied.
Now, try to get them on the phone and you better allocate about three hours of hitting redial before you’ll get through.
I was lucky enough to be included in a party which got a permit in its first lottery. Twenty day trip last December, and, as you say, once in a lifetime!
No commercial trip for me.
Here are some excerps from a site that explains the new system.
“Beginning in 2006, Grand Canyon National Park transitioned (read getting rid of) the Waiting List, a First-Come First-serve list that had grown to over 8,000 waiters waiting up to 20 years for a launch date, to a lottery system. The National Park Service estimates the time it will take someone to win the new lottery system is as long as the old waiting List. Go figure.”
“Question 37:
I’ve participated in river permit lotteries before on the Rogue, Dinosaur, and the Four Rivers Lottery. In those lotteries, we have permit parties, apply for a lot of dates, and all go if one person in our party wins. Why not do that for this Grand Canyon lottery?
Answer:
You can, but consider this: If you win, you get charged the $400 full trip or $200 small trip fee immediately. If your group of friends wins twice or more, you’ll have to pay the fees and cancel one or more of those trips. Say goodbye to your lottery fee and trip fee. Not only is there the fee issue, but also you can only go on one trip a year, and your name can only appear on one application.
Question 38:
This is a mess. I’m frustrated, confused, and don’t even want to apply. The chances of a permit holder getting a permit who has no experience in putting a Grand Canyon river trip together is really high. Who benefits?
Answer:
The majority of summer river access is still, by far, going to the river concessionaires for their customers. The new plan allows 14,385 commercial passengers on 476 trips in the summer, and only 2,270 do-it-yourself boaters on 185 trips, 62 of which are 8 people or less trips.
Question 39:
This is a mess. So what can I do about that?
Answer:
Tell your congressperson. Join RRFW at www.rrfw.org and stay active. This IS your National Park after all.”
Lucky dog! How was the weather?
Because there really isn’t that much land down there, if you just let anybody camp down there during peak months it would be a tent city and would really suck. By limiting the numbers you leave it worth camping in.
I'm thinking about renouncing my US citizenship, crossing the Rio Grande, and slipping back in ---gives new meaning to "Home free!"
No, they’ve had the fax system for a long time. All they’re doing now is getting rid of the in person permits.
Sometimes, living near the Potomac River, I think I’m in a Philip Jose Farmer novel and my country has ceased to exist, and everyone forgot to mention it to me.
You are in a Philip K. Dick novel...
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