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Baltimore to be center of abortion debate
baltimoresun.com ^ | November 23, 2009 | Matthew Hay Brown

Posted on 11/24/2009 10:31:50 AM PST by GonzoII

City Council expected to approve rules for offices that don't provide abortion, birth control By Matthew Hay Brown | matthew.brown@baltsun.com

November 23, 2009

Both sides of the abortion debate will be focusing on Baltimore today, when the City Council is expected to approve a first-in-the-nation law imposing new regulations on faith-based organizations that try to steer women away from the procedure.

The measure, introduced by council President Stephanie C. Rawlings-Blake at the behest of Planned Parenthood of Maryland, would require that crisis pregnancy centers that do not provide abortions or birth control post signs saying so.

Proponents frame the effort as a matter of public health. They accuse the centers of giving false or misleading information about the effects of abortion and birth control. Pregnant women, they say, should be told when they are not being given access to all of the options legally available to them.

But officials at such centers say they make their mission clear. They say the information they give is accurate, and making them advertise the services that they don't provide would be an unprecedented form of harassment.

"It really impugns our integrity," said Carol A. Clews, executive director of the Greater Baltimore Center for Pregnancy Concerns, which has two locations in the city and a third in Dundalk. "We are very forthright about what we do here and what we don't do. To put us in a position where we would have to put up a sign is offensive."

(Excerpt) Read more at baltimoresun.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Maryland
KEYWORDS: moralabsolutes; prolife

1 posted on 11/24/2009 10:31:51 AM PST by GonzoII
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To: wagglebee

Ping.


2 posted on 11/24/2009 10:32:27 AM PST by GonzoII ("That they may be one...Father")
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To: GonzoII

Excuse me? If these faith-based organizations are not taking taxpayer funds (which none should be) then the government has no right to trample on the First Amendment rights of these groups to distribute information as they see fit.


3 posted on 11/24/2009 10:36:58 AM PST by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: GonzoII
RE:”..would require that crisis pregnancy centers that do not provide abortions or birth control post signs saying so.

Not seeing the problem. Yes I understand they want to talk women looking for abortions, out of abortions.

Suppose Code Pink opened up a phony military recruitment center to talk young adults out of joining military and showed them horrific war photo's ? We would be up in arms. .

This one will not cause a backlash.

4 posted on 11/24/2009 10:46:24 AM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the government spending you demand stupid")
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To: sickoflibs; GonzoII
You seem unfamiliar with the implications of the Bill of Rights.

The first Amendment -- freedom of speech --- entails the right to say what you want to say, and to refrain from saying what you don't want to say; fredom of the press, the right to publish what you like, and not publish what you don't like; freedom of religion, the right to believe one thing, and not believe another, etc. The only thing the government may intervene to stop, are fraud and force.

As for the antiwar activists: of course they have a right to open an office to show disturbing pictures and try to talk people out of joining the military. They do this, you know. If a man or woman walks into the place by accident or happenstance and doesn't like the message, they can walk out. Simple as that.

Same with pregnancy-aid centers.

This is not a matter of force, nor is it a matter of fraud. No prolife pregnancy center in the world forces a woman to come in, or calls itself an abortion clinic.

5 posted on 11/24/2009 11:05:34 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("The first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious. " George Orwell)
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To: sickoflibs

Excuse me?

Even the libs in Baltimore say this is a big deal, which it is, but you say no, Well goodness....you’re sick of libs yet you sound like one.

Your example of the Code Pink creating a bogus recruitment center is as far off as anything resembling reality as pretty much anything a lib would use.

First, a fake military recruitment center would be...illegal I’m thinking. It’s certainly not like the “Sussex County Pregnancy Center”, a real place near me. The SCPC is not pretending to do governmental activities. It IS...just what it says...a pregnancy center. It does NOT perform abortions but so what? It’s, let’s do this again...A PREGNANCY CENTER. It advises young woman on adoption, giving birth, tries to obtain financial help if possible. How is that a lie?

Maybe you don’t see the difference between that an a bogus recruitment center that tries to deflect folks away from the military. Maybe it’s a bit too nuanced.

Assuming your example is NOT breaking a law, which it is...again, pretending to be recruiting for the military, which is the job OF the military, is illegal I’m thinking. But suppose it’s not.

What makes you think we’d be up in arms? I can’t speak for anyone else but if it tells the truth I most certainly would not be up in arms. If they’re not lying why would I be upset?

All Planned Parenthood wants is the loss of business these “pregnancy centers” cause them to lose because young women are counseled into having their babies, perhaps helped psychologically and financially. PP then loses the revenue dontcha know.

But no crime whatsoever is being committed by the Sussex County Pregnancy Center not putting big red letters outside that it does NOT perform abortion. I suspect a young woman could call in advance and ask. I know they don’t lie.

The abortion mills can’t stand that they lose business thanks to dedicated God loving people who try to save the lives of the helpless unborn. It’s the same deceiving methodology the libs use to shut down Rush Limbaugh and other free speech.

Your logic is specious. And dumb.


6 posted on 11/24/2009 11:10:59 AM PST by Fishtalk
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To: sickoflibs

I agree. If it’s true (big if) that inaccurate medical information is provided, that should be stopped.


7 posted on 11/24/2009 11:12:13 AM PST by sometime lurker
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To: Fishtalk

RE :”Your logic is specious. And dumb.”

Yours is. Only one purpose of opposing this, you want to lure women seeking abortions in. That in itself doesnt bother me, but the argument that they have some right to hide that objective falls flat on me.

Glad you admit liberals agree with you on this one, who gives a crap?


8 posted on 11/24/2009 11:22:04 AM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the government spending you demand stupid")
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To: sometime lurker

Amazing how you can put a contrarian post at reply#4 and get lots of angry pings! LOL

I get bored with agreeing with post after post.


9 posted on 11/24/2009 11:24:09 AM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the government spending you demand stupid")
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To: sickoflibs

I give up.

I will pray for you.


10 posted on 11/24/2009 11:24:09 AM PST by Fishtalk
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To: Fishtalk

I promise I will not get an abortion or advise anyone to!

But I will not lie!


11 posted on 11/24/2009 11:25:27 AM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the government spending you demand stupid")
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To: pnh102

When I served on the BoD of a pregnancy center in Maryland, we took exactly $0.00 from government of any sort. We were listed on United Way and CFC, but those are (corrupt) clearinghouses for private donations. Everything else came through direct donations from private individuals or fraternal societies.


12 posted on 11/24/2009 11:26:04 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: sickoflibs

My refusal to further answer this idiot’s silly commentary does not infer in any way that I agree.

Moving on.


13 posted on 11/24/2009 11:27:03 AM PST by Fishtalk
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To: Mrs. Don-o; GonzoII; sometime lurker
RE :”You seem unfamiliar with the implications of the Bill of Rights.

WOW a real constitutional expert. You're the first one here to claim that argument, today!

The bill of rights does not apply to businesses, only to individuals. Like forcing those cigarette warning labels are not prohibited.

Try telling your female employee you like her rear end and see how much the Bill of Rights protects you. Try telling your customer you dont like his race or sex.

14 posted on 11/24/2009 11:28:14 AM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the government spending you demand stupid")
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To: Fishtalk

Fishtalk wont reply because he knows I am right :)


15 posted on 11/24/2009 11:29:25 AM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the government spending you demand stupid")
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To: GonzoII

This is clearly wrong and unconstitutional.

Abortion clinics don’t serve Big Macs, change tires, or frankly a wide array of useful information about how birth control fails but there is little or no regulation.

In fact, this bizarre logic has created a world where abortion clinics are among the least regulated health entities in the nation— all because any regulation of them or compulsion directed toward them is immediately spun as a restriction on abortion.

What exactly do abortion clinics HAVE to do? Anything ?

Why aren’t all requirements on abortion clinics and ‘unconstitutional infringement of the ‘right to choose?’


16 posted on 11/24/2009 12:09:55 PM PST by lonestar67 ("I love my country a lot more than I love politics," President George W. Bush)
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To: sickoflibs; sometime lurker; GonzoII
You go a long way toward proving my points.

"The bill of rights does not apply to businesses, only to individuals. Like forcing those cigarette warning labels are not prohibited."

Point A, pregnancy aid centers are not engaged in commerce. They provide a free service, with no exchange of money.

Point B, the can be regulated to stop force or fraud, as I said before. But they dont't engage in force or fraud.

Point C, cigarette warning labels? You're serious? You're going to defend government-mandated cigarette warning labels? How about fat-content warning labels for Pasta Alfredo? Percentage of fiber in your favorite snack-crackers? Mandatory warnings on the backs of refrigerators that say "Don't try to carry this on your back down a flight of stairs"?

In a conservative forum, it's so rare to hear this kind of approving reference to the unfortunate proliferation of nanny-state regulations that I'm rather taken aback.

"Try telling your female employee you like her rear end and see how much the Bill of Rights protects you. Try telling your customer you dont like his race or sex"

Now I'm completely floored. All of these ought to be personal liberty social-decorum "free speech" issues. Demeaning race or sex talk disgusts me, but I don't think the jackasses involved ought to be prosecuted or litigated. If you talk this way and it's getting in the way of your work, I support the right of your boss to fire you.

Yes, some of us do defend all that conservative-liberty stuff including the right to annoying free speech. It's as good a reason as any to hang around Free Republic.

17 posted on 11/24/2009 12:50:52 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("The first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious. " George Orwell)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; sometime lurker; GonzoII
RE :”... pregnancy aid centers are not engaged in commerce . They provide a free service, with no exchange of money.” (response to “The bill of rights does not apply to businesses, only to individuals”)

Are you kidding? Do they have employees? Are they Incorporated? If someone slips on ice on the property, who gets sued? The individual?

Are you making the argument a nonprofit business is an individual under the constitution?

When they make YOU wear a sign I will be the first to defend your rights as an individual.

18 posted on 11/24/2009 1:06:59 PM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the government spending you demand stupid")
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To: sickoflibs; sometime lurker; GonzoII
(Rolls eyes.) It's perfectly obvious that the Powers That Be are doing this --- imposing speech, and denying speech, to these people, individually and corporately, profit and nonprofit, commercial and charitable groups, and to many others.

I thought the question was, Should they be doing this?

I say no.

19 posted on 11/24/2009 1:12:04 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("The first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious. " George Orwell)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; sometime lurker; GonzoII
I live in Maryland and Baltimore is doing much worse stuff than this.

They were investigating whether to prosecute the ACORN expos-ea film-makers. Maryland tried to prosecute Linda Tripp. The mayor is on criminal trial for criminal activities but still holds office.

If the law required the centers to post a health warning on carrying out pregnancies to birth I'd be concerned. But they have no intention of providing an abortion so the pregnant woman has a right to know that, freedom of association.

20 posted on 11/24/2009 1:23:52 PM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the government spending you demand stupid")
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To: sickoflibs
Agreed, there's a lot of bad stuff going on. To the extent that I have the breath and spit in me, I'm agin' all of it.

But there's no point to this particular proposed law except the harrassment of pregnancy support centers, and a camel's-nose to completely regulate them out of existence.

Twenty-nine of every 30 people engaged in pregnancy center work are volunteers, sometimes offering medical services (for which they are licensed already by the state), including ultrasound and STD testing, but always involved with pregnancy testing, lay and peer counseling, parenting classes, referrals to health resources, and programs for healing after abortion.

This is a typical website for a pregnancy aid center which, as you can see, makes perfectly clear what kind of information and counseling they're offering. No need to say "no pharmacy on-site", "no veterinary services," "no frozen foods and dairy section" because they tell you up-front what kind of center they are and what their services are.

Thw largest network of pregnancy centers, called Heartbeat, already posts this comprehensive Commitment of Care and Competence in every center. You'll notice they advertise that they "We do not offer, recommend or refer for abortions or abortifacients/"

Then what's the big deal about the proposed Baltimore law?

The big deal is that legislation developed by the enemies of Pregnancy Centers (e.g. the abortion industry and their allies) is predicated on a completely spurious claim of "need" (when in fact there is no evidence of any deception, harm, tort or fraud involved in the centers) and proceeds from an intention to entangle them in endless political and legal hassles.

The pending legislation in Baltimore is an opening-wedge strategy, an offensive pretext and a dangerous precedent. The opening salvo in a an incremental strategy (of which we are well aware) aimed at hounding life-saving ministries out of existence.

21 posted on 11/24/2009 2:05:57 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("The first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious. " George Orwell)
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To: GonzoII

You know, Gonzo Twice, it just warms my heart to see how concerned Planned Parenthood is for the welfare of pregnant women. You can hardly even tell that sales might be suffering because of the “subversive campaign” of the non-abortion help centers. It’s only fair that we level the killing field. (Did I type that with my “outside keyboard”?)


22 posted on 11/24/2009 2:24:59 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian ( What happened to my tag line?)
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To: GonzoII; 185JHP; 230FMJ; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or DirtyHarryY2K to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


23 posted on 11/24/2009 4:06:36 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: GonzoII
Pinged from Terri Dailies


24 posted on 11/24/2009 4:16:11 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: GonzoII; Abundy; Albion Wilde; AlwaysFree; AnnaSASsyFR; bayliving; BFM; cindy-true-supporter; ...

Maryland “Freak State” PING!


25 posted on 11/24/2009 6:29:13 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Don't eat your dog; eat obnoxious, liberal humans to save the planet!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thank you for the thought out response.


26 posted on 11/24/2009 7:03:37 PM PST by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the government spending you demand stupid")
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“In a conservative forum, it’s so rare to hear this kind of approving reference to the unfortunate proliferation of nanny-state regulations that I’m rather taken aback.”

Oh come now.

Surely you’ve run across the car-insurance and car-safety (seat belts, child seats) discussions occasionally.

Not rare at all.


27 posted on 11/24/2009 7:41:05 PM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: the OlLine Rebel

Well, it’s probably out there (because FReepers say the darndest things...!) but I rarely run into it. For which I am grateful, mostly.

Happy Thanksgiving to you!


28 posted on 11/25/2009 6:08:40 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ( If the only prayer you say in your entire life is 'thank you', it will be enough. Meister Eckhart)
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To: sickoflibs

Happy Thanksgiving to you!


29 posted on 11/25/2009 6:09:07 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ( If the only prayer you say in your entire life is 'thank you', it will be enough. Meister Eckhart)
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