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Pro-Darwin consensus doesn't rule out intelligent design (published on CNN!!!)
CNN ^ | November 23, 2009 | Stephen Meyer, Ph.D.

Posted on 11/24/2009 6:50:51 PM PST by GodGunsGuts

Pro-Darwin consensus doesn't rule out intelligent design

--snip--

(CNN) -- While we officially celebrate the 150th anniversary of the publication of Charles Darwin's "On the Origin of Species" on November 24, celebrations of Darwin's legacy have actually been building in intensity for several years. Darwin is not just an important 19th century scientific thinker. Increasingly, he is a cultural icon.

Darwin is the subject of adulation that teeters on the edge of hero worship, expressed in everything from scholarly seminars and lecture series to best-selling new atheist tracts like those by Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. The atheists claim that Darwin disproved once and for all the argument for intelligent design from nature.

And that of course is why he remains hugely controversial. A Zogby poll commissioned by the Discovery Institute this year found that 52 percent of Americans agree "the development of life was guided by intelligent design." Those who are not scientists may wonder if they have a right to entertain skepticism about Darwinian theory.

Read a leading Darwin proponent's view that evolution leaves no room for intelligent design theory...

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


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1 posted on 11/24/2009 6:50:51 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: metmom; DaveLoneRanger; editor-surveyor; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; MrB; GourmetDan; Fichori; ...

For the record, this post is being posted in News/Activism by the express permission of Jim Robinson, founder and owner of Free Republic:

“Debate on church doctrine and or threads on specific religious matters may be best posted in the religion forum, but the defense of religious freedom, especially against those who wish to deprive us of same belongs front and center on FR.

They banned God and prayer and creationism from public schools and public places, but I’ll be damned if they’re gonna ban Him or it from FR!”

—Jim Robinson

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2203455/posts?page=78#78


2 posted on 11/24/2009 6:51:52 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Gee, I guess THAT means the Earth is only 6000 years old!
/SARC


3 posted on 11/24/2009 6:57:15 PM PST by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: GodGunsGuts
Interesting article ~ and a step up from the instantaneous creation business so often associated with "creationism".

Frankly we are going to find super-computer capabilities somewhere in the coding of the DNA we ordinarily encounter on Earth. I'm pretty much of the belief that the universe is sufficiently "wired" that such things can spring, unbidden, and self-organize.

It's that level of design ~ the fundamental structure of the universe ~ that's most likely the place where we'll find the "tinkering".

4 posted on 11/24/2009 7:00:14 PM PST by muawiyah (Git Out The Way)
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To: GodGunsGuts

woohoo!


5 posted on 11/24/2009 7:19:37 PM PST by valkyry1
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To: muawiyah
I'm pretty much of the belief that the universe is sufficiently "wired" that such things can spring, unbidden, and self-organize. ------- That's a bigger reach than intelligent design.
6 posted on 11/24/2009 7:22:34 PM PST by boycott
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To: boycott
How else are we ever going to build quantum computers unless we can find suitable configurations of gates in the ranks of the various molecular compounds.

(All of which are "self organizing" given the presence of heat).

7 posted on 11/24/2009 7:26:14 PM PST by muawiyah (Git Out The Way)
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To: muawiyah

You could never make one good enough to make a flea ..... much less a human.

That’s just my opinion.


8 posted on 11/24/2009 7:34:27 PM PST by boycott
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To: GodGunsGuts
While we officially celebrate the 150th anniversary of the publication of Charles Darwin's "On the Origin of Species" on November 24...

I stopped right there. "Celebrate"?? I celebrate Christmas, Easter, Memorial Day, Independence Day and other major holidays. I have never "celebrated" Darwin in any way, shape or form.

Lemmie flip this a bit. Can you imagine a CNN reporter saying:

"While we officially celebrate the over 2000th birthday of Jesus Christ..."

Yeah. I thought so, too.

9 posted on 11/24/2009 7:36:42 PM PST by Kieri (The Conservatrarian)
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To: GodGunsGuts
For the record, this post is being posted in News/Activism by the express permission of Jim Robinson, founder and owner of Free Republic:

“Debate on church doctrine and or threads on specific religious matters may be best posted in the religion forum, but the defense of religious freedom, especially against those who wish to deprive us of same belongs front and center on FR."

But, GGG, this is about ID, NOT about religion?

10 posted on 11/24/2009 7:39:31 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: ColdWater; GodGunsGuts

ColdWater,

Check out the mouth-breathing half-wit at post #3!


11 posted on 11/24/2009 7:43:26 PM PST by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: ColdWater; GodGunsGuts
But, GGG, this is about ID, NOT about religion?

ColdWater, please define "religion."

12 posted on 11/24/2009 7:44:28 PM PST by celmak
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To: muawiyah
I'm pretty much of the belief that the universe is sufficiently "wired" that such things can spring, unbidden, and self-organize.

If the universe is *wired* then nothing is going to spring up unbidden and self-organize. The wiring would be what caused it.

Honestly, this business that evos have of denying a creator because it's based on faith and then expecting anyone to believe that the universe could self-organize with no intelligent impetus, is bizarre beyond belief.

It takes more faith to believe in those fantasy scenarios that have no rational or logical basis and no precedent than to believe that God did it, in whatever manner one chooses.

What is it with evos that they are so adamantly opposed to the concept of intelligence and design being behind the creation of the universe and the life in it?

13 posted on 11/24/2009 7:45:38 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Kieri

You have never heard of the Darwin celebrations, such as Darwin Day? They hold observances all over the world. They even sing Christmas tunes to Darwinian evo-atheist words. It’s quite a sight to behold!


14 posted on 11/24/2009 7:46:36 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: celmak; ColdWater

Notice how CW conveniently left out the very next sentence:

“They banned God and prayer and creationism from public schools and public places, but I’ll be damned if they’re gonna ban Him or it from FR!”

These kinds of deliberate misrepresentations are standard operating procedure for CW.


15 posted on 11/24/2009 7:51:39 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

I’ve never heard of “Darwin Day.” But ewww...it sounds right up there with Fulsom St.!


16 posted on 11/24/2009 7:51:54 PM PST by Kieri (The Conservatrarian)
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To: boycott
I'm pretty much of the belief that the universe is sufficiently "wired" that such things can spring, unbidden, and self-organize. ------- That's a bigger reach than intelligent design.

Not really: in cosmology it's called "the anthropic principle". There are just too many 'coincidences' and fine-tuned constants in the laws of physics that are necessary for anything like life to arise. These point so strongly toward design at the fundamental level, that atheistic materialists have abandoned both Occam's Razor and the Popperian standard of falsifiability, and posited the "multiverse", an infinitude of other (necessarily unobservable, and therefore both unfalsifiable and unverifiable) universes so that ours can just happen to be one of the rare ones suitable for life, to avoid the conclusion that the universe in toto was designed to support life.

"My ways are not thy ways saith the Lord." Our way to make something complex is to design it by hand. It seems His was is to grow it.

Once you have a well-designed environment, yes, the Darwinian mechanism can give rise to novel complex structures. We've even mastered the trick for ourselves: inside a digital computer with software specifically made for the purpose, novel, useful, complex algorithms can be evolved by a Darwinian mechanism (Google "evolutionary algorithms"). Absent a well-designed environment, you don't even get self-reproducing systems of any sort, so Darwinism doesn't even have anything to apply itself to.

17 posted on 11/24/2009 7:52:18 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Bump!


18 posted on 11/24/2009 7:55:49 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Perhaps someone can answer me these two questions. I am not trying to be sarcastic, but have never had these questions adequately answered and would like to know what a atheist evolutionist would think.

First, how could life begin from nothing? Please, I understand that some believe in a “primordial soup”...but that is misleading because initially there was no soup. Soup is organic, there would have only been inorganic materials from which to build life...how could that have possibly happened?

Second, if life were created from nothing...then why is not new life being created all the time now that there really is a very rich soup of life from which to draw on?


19 posted on 11/24/2009 7:56:03 PM PST by Wpin (I do not regret my admiration for W)
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To: GodGunsGuts

You totally ducked the question. Same ol’ GGG.


20 posted on 11/24/2009 7:57:00 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: GodGunsGuts
These kinds of deliberate misrepresentations are standard operating procedure for CW.

What was misrepresented?

21 posted on 11/24/2009 8:00:07 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: metmom
It takes more faith to believe in those fantasy scenarios that have no rational or logical basis and no precedent than to believe that God did it, in whatever manner one chooses. ------- Exactly!
22 posted on 11/24/2009 8:00:12 PM PST by boycott
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To: celmak
"But, GGG, this is about ID, NOT about religion?"

ColdWater, please define "religion."

You think ID is religion?

23 posted on 11/24/2009 8:00:12 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: metmom
Honestly, this business that evos have of denying a creator because it's based on faith and then expecting anyone to believe that the universe could self-organize with no intelligent impetus, is bizarre beyond belief.

I really like your verbiage. It is self imposed insanity. Actually any and all unbelief in The LORD God Almighty is insane.

24 posted on 11/24/2009 8:02:17 PM PST by Bellflower (If you are left DO NOT take the mark of the beast and be damned forever.)
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To: ColdWater
But, GGG, this is about ID, NOT about religion?"

Actually all IS about religion if by religion it is meant believing the The Self Existent One. Nothing is outside of the scope of acknowledging His involvement in every aspect of creation. Trying to make a compartment of "science" or of any kind that excludes The LORD is not reality and cannot be done as nothing exist apart from Him.

25 posted on 11/24/2009 8:10:55 PM PST by Bellflower (If you are left DO NOT take the mark of the beast and be damned forever.)
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To: Kieri
"I stopped right there. "Celebrate"?? "

I think the word the writer was searching for, probably was "commemorate." Given the present state of the art, I suspect the usual "journalist" (pardon the loose descriptive term) can't distinguish between "celebrate" and "commemorate."

26 posted on 11/24/2009 8:13:36 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: Wpin

Since you asked me, I will tell you what I believe about the subject. I believe that God created the entire universe and everything in it, and that the reason why we don’t see any new creations is because God ceased creating life at the end of Day 6 of Creation Week.

Having said that, your points are well taken. We have never witnessed life self-assemble from the elements, nor have we for that matter ever witnessed macroevolution from already living organisms. As such, abiogenesis and macroevolution is faith, not science.


27 posted on 11/24/2009 8:14:07 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: Bellflower
Actually all IS about religion if by religion it is meant believing the The Self Existent One.

If all is about religion, why is there a forum just for Religion?

28 posted on 11/24/2009 8:14:53 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Kieri; GodGunsGuts
This was not a news article written by a CNN reporter it was a commentary by Stephen Meyer:

Editor's note: Stephen Meyer is director of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture, which supports research challenging "neo-Darwinian theory" and supports work on the theory of "intelligent design." He is the author of "Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design." He received his Ph.D. in the Philosophy of Science from Cambridge University.

So you just criticized one of the leaders if the I.D. movement.

Epic Fail Pictures, Images and Photos

29 posted on 11/24/2009 8:23:05 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: Wpin
First, how could life begin from nothing? Please, I understand that some believe in a “primordial soup”...but that is misleading because initially there was no soup. Soup is organic, there would have only been inorganic materials from which to build life...how could that have possibly happened?

Those denying creation cannot even answer the most basic question of how matter was created from nothing. There's a far greater chance of creating man from a stick of butter than their is creating man from nothing.

I'll go with intelligent design on this one.

Second, if life were created from nothing...then why is not new life being created all the time now that there really is a very rich soup of life from which to draw on?

Good question. Why aren't there becoming more species instead of less if that soup is so good?

30 posted on 11/24/2009 8:24:44 PM PST by boycott
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To: Bellflower
Actually all IS about religion if by religion it is meant believing the The Self Existent One.

Is "The Self Existent One" the Intelligent Designer or is he God?

31 posted on 11/24/2009 8:28:01 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: Ira_Louvin

I always question over-the-top descriptions, and it doesn’t matter which side uses them. It didn’t appear to be a parody or satire.

Somehow I don’t think Meyer, if he is an honest scientist (which seem to be fewer and far between these days), criticism isn’t a problem.


32 posted on 11/24/2009 8:28:24 PM PST by Kieri (The Conservatrarian)
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To: Bellflower
Trying to make a compartment of "science" or of any kind that excludes The LORD is not reality
33 posted on 11/24/2009 8:29:11 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: GodGunsGuts; metmom; DaveLoneRanger; editor-surveyor; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; MrB; GourmetDan; ...
"For the record, this post is being posted in News/Activism by the express permission of Jim Robinson, founder and owner of Free Republic:"

Good evening, Less.

There is no doubt that Jim Robinson is an strong advocate of, free speech and a God fearing Christian. The fact that he has lent you his soap box does not, by entension make your post either news or accurate.

34 posted on 11/24/2009 8:29:14 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: YHAOS
EPIC FAIL Pictures, Images and Photos

See post number 29

35 posted on 11/24/2009 8:29:30 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: Natural Law; GodGunsGuts
When GGG gets too haughty ...

To: GodGunsGuts I repeat, stop hitting the abuse button. 210 posted on 10/22/2009 3:29:31 PM PDT by Admin Moderator

36 posted on 11/24/2009 8:32:07 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: Kieri

Well you have one thing right, since he is the director of the Discovery Institute’s Center for Science and Culture he is not an honest scientist.


37 posted on 11/24/2009 8:35:51 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: ColdWater
Is "The Self Existent One" the Intelligent Designer or is he God?

The Self Existent one is both, God who has perfect intellect and designed all of creation. The word intelligent is actually an extremely weak and insufficient description for the mind of God.

38 posted on 11/24/2009 8:41:03 PM PST by Bellflower (If you are left DO NOT take the mark of the beast and be damned forever.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
"....and that the reason why we don’t see any new creations is because God ceased creating life at the end of Day 6 of Creation Week."

Did you realize you were posting an article critical of your views? Your beliefs are outside the purview of the article. Darwin's Theory of Evolution is not incompatible with Intelligent Design. Darwin acknowledged a Creator in "The Origin of Species. You have also strongly criticized Pope Benedict XVI's assertion of the same. WTF?

39 posted on 11/24/2009 8:47:23 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: Bellflower

And GGG says that these threads are NOT about religion?


40 posted on 11/24/2009 8:47:41 PM PST by Wacka
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To: ColdWater
You think ID is religion?

Depends on what your definition is of religion. For the 2nd time, what is your definition of religion?

41 posted on 11/24/2009 8:49:25 PM PST by celmak
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To: celmak

I was asking for your opinion. Why should I define your opinion?


42 posted on 11/24/2009 8:50:31 PM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: Ira_Louvin

Fail what?


43 posted on 11/24/2009 8:50:40 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: Ira_Louvin; Kieri; valkyry1; GodGunsGuts

“Well you have one thing right, since he is the director of the Discovery Institute’s Center for Science and Culture he is not an honest scientist.”
**********************************************************

It’s not like there are a lot of those anyway.

Scientists aren’t the paragons of integrity and virtue that evos like to portray them as.

Studies examine withholding of scientific data among researchers, trainees
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1565120/posts

It May Look Authentic; Here’s How to Tell It Isn’t
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1563746/posts

Most scientific papers are probably wrong
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1473528/posts

Most Science Studies Appear to Be Tainted By Sloppy Analysis
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1896333/posts

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124&ct=1

One in seven scientists say colleagues fake data
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2264439/posts

You Can Trust a Scientist – Can’t You?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2262237/posts


44 posted on 11/24/2009 8:52:53 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: YHAOS

See post number 29 and unless you fail a reading comprehension as badly as you do science you should be able to figure it out on your own.


45 posted on 11/24/2009 8:56:12 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: metmom

“Scientists aren’t the paragons of integrity and virtue that evos like to portray them as.”

And preachers, reverends, and pastors are?


46 posted on 11/24/2009 9:00:20 PM PST by MissouriConservative
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To: MissouriConservative

That doesn’t make my statement untrue.

You’re just trying to deflect the attention away from the truth.

Another diversionary tactic instead of addressing the comment.


47 posted on 11/24/2009 9:03:10 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

Just like Ray Comfort who failed to do the proper research prior to find out that the banana was DOMESTICATED BY MAN hundreds of years ago.

The yellow banana we get in stores WAS intelligently designed, BY MAN!!!

Banana’s before then (and the other species of bananas) don’t exhibit those qualities he pretends prove their is a god.

Why does no one bring this up?


48 posted on 11/24/2009 9:05:40 PM PST by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: ColdWater
I was asking for your opinion. Why should I define your opinion?

You are not defining my opinion, you are defining the argument.

You asked the question of GGG, "But, GGG, this is about ID, NOT about religion?" I need your definition before I can give you my opinion. For the 3rd time, what is your definition of religion? Please do not use the Evo tactic of avoiding the question. You set your parameters of the argument to include religion, you need to define it.

49 posted on 11/24/2009 9:07:18 PM PST by celmak
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To: metmom

If you’re presenting the “truth” should not you include the fact that pastors, reverends, and preachers are not virtuous beings as well? Or do you consider the words of all pastors, preachers, and reverends to be virtuous and true?

And how is my question deflecting attention. If you’re going to make a bold statement like you did, then you must state a position on the virtuousness of pastors, preachers, and reverends since they are the ones who are teaching and preaching ID.


50 posted on 11/24/2009 9:07:22 PM PST by MissouriConservative
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