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Ranching, recreation collide in the great outdoors
Los Angeles Times ^ | November 27, 2009 | Nicholas Riccardi

Posted on 11/28/2009 4:13:30 PM PST by missycocopuffs

Reporting from Camp Hale, Colo. - As soon as Renee Legro saw the sheep, she screamed.

The herd, 1,300 strong, has been coming for 30 years to graze in this valley on the backside of the Continental Divide. But as Colorado has become an adventure sports destination, the once-empty valley has filled with hikers, campers and mountain bikers like Legro, and she was about to tragically embody the collision of the old West with the new.

Legro, 33, screamed because she knew what came with the herd -- guard dogs. Shortly after she rolled down a hill and came upon the sheep, a dog leaped at her, locked its jaws on her hip and yanked her off her bike.

A second dog pounced as she fell. The two enormous canines, powerful enough to fend off bears, tore at her until her cries drew two campers who drove them off. The emergency-room doctor lost count of how many stitches she required.

To Legro and her husband, Steve, there was one person responsible -- Sam Robinson. One of a dwindling number of sheepherders in Colorado's mountains, Robinson, 54, turned to guard dogs a decade ago, after the state banned the use of traps to prevent mountain lions, coyotes and bears from destroying herds.

"We don't have any other option," Robinson said.

The Legros see things differently. In their years of hiking, biking and skiing the magnificent open spaces near Vail, they have fled from ranchers' dogs several times. "I cannot bring my dog up to the forest and let it run wild and attack people," said Steve Legro, 37. "Neither should anyone else."

They wanted Robinson charged with a crime.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: dogs; g74; livestock; livestockguardian; ranching; recreation; sheep
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1 posted on 11/28/2009 4:13:32 PM PST by missycocopuffs
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To: missycocopuffs

(sigh)


2 posted on 11/28/2009 4:18:17 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: missycocopuffs

So when did sheepherders start using Pit Bulls for herding sheep...


3 posted on 11/28/2009 4:18:42 PM PST by tubebender (Some minds are like concrete Thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: missycocopuffs
But instead, the couple from Vail were charged with being Yuppie while outdoors, criminally stupid and sheep abusers.

(did I miss anything)

IF you are going too fast to avoid a herd that size, you are going too fast.

Second, they knew the herd had guard dogs, yet still went into the herd.

3rd - I dunno about you - but if I know there are “mountain lions, wolves, etc” in them thar hills, I carry an equalizer, I perfer the kind that start with the number 4.

4 posted on 11/28/2009 4:19:55 PM PST by ASOC (Cave quid dicis, quando, et cui)
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To: missycocopuffs

The same kind of folks who would sue the appropriate agency or entity if they were molested by bears, mountain lions, badgers, etc.


5 posted on 11/28/2009 4:21:08 PM PST by Jagdgewehr
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To: ASOC

” But instead, the couple from Vail were charged with being Yuppie while outdoors, criminally stupid and sheep abusers.”

.. and those were the polite charges


6 posted on 11/28/2009 4:21:59 PM PST by SF_Redux
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To: tubebender
Weren't pit bulls.

The libs are the ones acting like pit bulls.

7 posted on 11/28/2009 4:22:09 PM PST by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|Remember Neda Agha-Soltan|TV--it's NOT news you can trust)
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To: missycocopuffs
To Legro and her husband, Steve, there was one person responsible -- Sam Robinson. One of a dwindling number of sheepherders in Colorado's mountains, Robinson, 54, turned to guard dogs a decade ago, after the state banned the use of traps to prevent mountain lions, coyotes and bears from destroying herds.

It obviously couldn't be they who are responsible. Them missing the state's culpability means they are libs for certain.

8 posted on 11/28/2009 4:23:44 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: missycocopuffs
“”I cannot bring my dog up to the forest and let it run wild and attack people,” said Steve Legro, 37. “Neither should anyone else.”

People making a real living and raising your food, have a right to.
Go somewhere else.

9 posted on 11/28/2009 4:24:20 PM PST by HereInTheHeartland (The End of an Error - 01/20/2013)
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To: missycocopuffs

Hey it could have been a guard llama, think hooves and teeth.


10 posted on 11/28/2009 4:27:23 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: SF_Redux
” But instead, the couple from Vail were charged with being Yuppie while outdoors, criminally stupid and sheep abusers.”

There is a ring of truth in that statement.

The gal is from Chicago - would she decide to ride her bike alone through a tough neighborhood after dark?

The mountains have their own hazards - I've lived in the Colorado mountains, and there are things you need to know that you just don't do - such as hiking through avalance chutes in the winter (but some idiots ski down them). She chose to disregard those hazards and keep riding into dusk to feed her ego. And when she got hurt, it was someone else's fault, instead of a result of her own bad judgement. What if the bike broke and she spilled and hit her head on a rock - would that have been the bike manufacturer's fault?

11 posted on 11/28/2009 4:28:40 PM PST by dirtboy
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To: ASOC
Old video of wolves attacking sheep Yes, I'd definitely be carrying something to protect myself in wolf country...
12 posted on 11/28/2009 4:30:20 PM PST by missycocopuffs
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To: ASOC
. . .the couple from Vail were charged with being Yuppie while outdoors, criminally stupid and sheep abusers.

I wish! Instead, the sheepherder was found guilty. He was supposed to have taught his guard dogs to attack mountain lions and coyotes but not strange creatures on bicycles who might also look as though they were attacking the herd. And the suburbanites who think they have some kind of right to wreck someone else's life and ruin their livelihood while in pursuit of recreation didn't even get a cross look aimed at them. The poor sheepherder must be heartbroken. Damn suburban liberals, I hate them. (How much do you want to bet those were Obama voters?)

13 posted on 11/28/2009 4:31:16 PM PST by ottbmare (I could agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.)
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To: ottbmare
How much do you want to bet those were Obama voters?

A very logical presumption.

14 posted on 11/28/2009 4:34:16 PM PST by Jagdgewehr
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To: ottbmare

Skiing over by Salt Lake City a few years ago, my husband and I saw posted signs along a trail indicating that livestock guardian dogs were in the area and what to do if one encountered them—slowly back off—and I actually felt better knowing that the dogs were in the area.


15 posted on 11/28/2009 4:36:23 PM PST by missycocopuffs
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To: ottbmare

I was being a bit of a punk - if you keeping working dogs you also have the responsibility to train them to not atack human - except on command. The Numi opened a freeking “dog park “ in the park across the street from me and I now I have to chase the blanky-blanks out of yard all the time.


16 posted on 11/28/2009 4:41:17 PM PST by ASOC
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To: missycocopuffs

In town it’s a carry pistol, when we get on the outskirts of town - were we have a well known wolve problem, I carry the 1200 - nothing like a pump gun to say goodbye to critters.

We don’t have pets and if we take the grandkids camping, ALL of the adults carry something that starts with 4 - or bigger.

I was hoping Santy Klaus would bring a Bushmaster 450 this year, but it looks ike that ain’t going to happen....


17 posted on 11/28/2009 4:46:01 PM PST by ASOC (Like CONgress, this space is for Sale or Rent)
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To: missycocopuffs
I have spent hundreds of hours in the CO Rockies, seen lots of sheep and made friends with sheep herders. I've never seen any with dogs nor would I fear their dogs if I ran into them. But I doubt that I would provoke the dogs by plowing through a herd of sheep on a bicycle.

I have been run off of trails by obnoxious bike riders though. The bikes also cause trail erosion making the trails rocky and rutted.

18 posted on 11/28/2009 4:50:58 PM PST by TigersEye (Sarah Palin 2010 - We Can't Afford To Wait)
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To: ASOC

Sister’s husband supervised sheep herders. I visited them and came across multiple sheep flocks with their herders and sheep dogs. As long as I did not do something stupid like riding a bike into the herd or screaming and rushing the herd, the dogs (and herder) was no threat.

Deer hunted in the mts many years. Common to encounter sheep herds w/dogs and herders. In and around the sheep, etc multiple times. As long as I did nothing brain dead like charging into the sheep or anything along those lines, the dogs did not view me as a threat and so no problems.

But then again, I never acted like a stupid, brain-dead, Liberal and charged the sheep yelling/screaming/etc. Maybe if I had acted like an idiot, then different.

Not sure, as not brain dead around animals, having hunted around sheep/dogs/herdersa and worked farms/ranches.


19 posted on 11/28/2009 4:51:35 PM PST by OldArmy52 (The German High Command sent Lenin to destabilize Russia. Who sent Obama?)
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To: Jagdgewehr

“As soon as Renee Legro saw the sheep, she screamed...and rolled down the hill at the sheep anyway (screaming....sounds like her best rendition of a Banzai attack).

So, she screamed and on the bike charged into the sheep herd at speed anyway. Too dumb to live obviously. She obviously is a person who would get into trouble at a childrens’ petting zoo.


20 posted on 11/28/2009 4:54:39 PM PST by OldArmy52 (The German High Command sent Lenin to destabilize Russia. Who sent Obama?)
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To: missycocopuffs

Ranchers always take it in the butt if anything, and I mean anything, goes wrong.....no matter whose fault it is.


21 posted on 11/28/2009 4:57:13 PM PST by RC2
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To: OldArmy52

Exactly. Now that I think about it I have seen dogs with the herders before. They were smallish like Aussie sheep dogs. Nothing I would be afraid of if they did get snappy. But that has never happened. I forgot all about them because they didn’t do anything to leave an impression on me. They are quiet and meek unless they perceive a threat to the sheep.


22 posted on 11/28/2009 5:00:22 PM PST by TigersEye (Sarah Palin 2010 - We Can't Afford To Wait)
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To: missycocopuffs
To Legro and her husband, Steve, there was one person responsible -- Sam Robinson LEGRO.

Threaten a herd with guard dogs and face the consequences of your stupidity.

23 posted on 11/28/2009 5:11:32 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Only payoff for being a Democrat? They get the illusion that they are intellectually superior to you)
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To: vladimir998

Wonder if the knobby treads on her mountain bike was tearing up the trails and leading to more erosion? Lady, stay in town and eat tofu.


24 posted on 11/28/2009 5:13:24 PM PST by pointsal
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To: missycocopuffs

Because of her stupidity lives are ruined. You would think she wouldn't have a big smile on her face.

25 posted on 11/28/2009 5:13:30 PM PST by raybbr (It's going to get a lot worse now that the anchor babies are voting!)
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To: OldArmy52

I lived in Idaho for many years and encountered sheep herds quite a bit hunting and riding horseback South of the Sawtooth Range. It was a common sight back then. Now, I can envision this stupid woman riding a mountain bike through the herd screaming. It’s no wonder the dogs attacked her. The dogs did their work well. Too bad the shepherd has to be punished for her stupidity. Just the way the world turns anymore. Sad.


26 posted on 11/28/2009 5:19:11 PM PST by Jagdgewehr
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To: OldArmy52
Thank you - my B I L actually herds sheep, using a set of massive Russian dogs (don't know the proper name) - but the bloody things are as big as a pony.

He has no problems with coyotes - or anything else for the matter. Walk up the herd, no problem - running, as he explains to me, is NOT a good thing.

The dogs hair and color are to the point they are all but invisible in the sage - unitl they stand up.

Then, you just wet yourself....

27 posted on 11/28/2009 5:19:28 PM PST by ASOC (This space is for Sale or Rent - just like CONgress)
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To: ASOC
if you keeping working dogs you also have the responsibility to train them to not atack human - except on command.

Actually livestock guardian dogs are raised to work almost completely alone. They are raised with the sheep all their lives and feel like one of them. Their only job is to protect "the family" from any threat they deem important, usually by chasing it away but attacking if necessary. They are not "command controlled" in the sense that other service dogs are, since the shepherd isn't always nearby. Livestock losses drop considerably when these animals are used.

28 posted on 11/28/2009 5:40:01 PM PST by Americanchild (The duct tape czar!)
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To: Americanchild

You have me there - my experiance is limited to sheep herding and the dogs I know of always work with a human.

When the BIL is in town, they put a ‘temp’ out in the field - in this case, the dogs keep on eye on the temp as well. I had thought of going over during the deer season so he could have an extened time off & I could could get a shot at -
a big deer
some DX


29 posted on 11/28/2009 5:48:37 PM PST by ASOC (This space is for Sale or Rent - just like CONgress)
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To: TigersEye
Now that I think about it I have seen dogs with the herders before. They were smallish like Aussie sheep dogs. Nothing I would be afraid of if they did get snappy.

This is NOT meant as an attack on you or your post but we like big dogs and actually looked in to this breed.

From the article: Though not trained to attack people, the dogs, both white Great Pyrenees, were fierce protectors of Robinson's herd.

Aragon Great Pyrenees

Size, Proportion, Substance Size--The height at the withers ranges from 27 inches to 32 inches for dogs and from 25 inches to 29 inches for bitches. A 27 inch dog weighs about 100 pounds and a 25 inch bitch weighs about 85 pounds. Weight is in proportion to the overall size and structure.

What kind of idiot rides screaming at speed into a flock guarded by this kind of dog?

30 posted on 11/28/2009 5:49:56 PM PST by AZ .44 MAG (I'm Jim Thompson and I say our government is a joke and its current makeup is the punch line.)
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To: missycocopuffs

Many posters here need to reread the article, but this time pay attention to the part where she says she came over a hill and into the herd.

As someone who has lived in Vail, and mountain biked Camp Hale, which is one of the races in the Vail Town mountain bike series, this is an issue of access. Personally, as citizen of a constitutional republic, I put the lady’s right to access above that of the sheep herder, who has, more likely than not, hired illegal aliens to watch the herd. My sympathy is with the woman who suffered severe injuries for the crime of riding her mountain bike, not with the sheep owner and his illegal alien herders who were no where to be seen while she was being attacked by the two Great Pyrenees.


31 posted on 11/28/2009 5:53:23 PM PST by Nephi ( Bush legacy: "I had to sacrifice free market principles to save the free market.")
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To: tubebender

The article says a decade ago they turned to guard dogs because the state banned the use of traps to capture lions, bears and wolves which were killing the sheep. Fourth paragraph.


32 posted on 11/28/2009 5:56:30 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: missycocopuffs

...never heard of Great Pyrenees or any other sheep dogs attacking people. IMO, the suburbanite probably appeared to threaten the sheep in some way. Maybe the terminally suburban folks should consider staying in suburbia instead of moving to the Range and trying to regulate working class people with common sense off of it.


33 posted on 11/28/2009 5:56:41 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote)
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To: AZ .44 MAG

Those are definitely not the kind of dogs I have seen herding sheep in the Rockies. I am sure that if two of those were after my hide I would be scampering up a tree. But I doubt that I would set them off in the first place. Beautiful dogs BTW.


34 posted on 11/28/2009 5:58:24 PM PST by TigersEye (Sarah Palin 2010 - We Can't Afford To Wait)
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To: Nephi
"...I put the lady’s right to access above that of the sheep herder, who has, more likely than not, hired illegal aliens to watch the herd."

That's quite a presumption. Few, if any shepherds, can afford hire anyone, but the bosses around the resorts restrict their hiring nearly exclusively to illegal aliens. And they do so notoriously, in plain view of local authorities. [Emphasis in bold mine, just so that all readers of this thread will notice.]


35 posted on 11/28/2009 6:05:02 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote)
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To: george76
Ping!


36 posted on 11/28/2009 6:08:16 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote)
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To: Jagdgewehr
Now, I can envision this stupid woman riding a mountain bike through the herd screaming. It’s no wonder the dogs attacked her.

Yep, very stupid. It wouldn't surprise me if you could ride swiftly through a herd and get little or no reaction from the dogs if you kept quiet. On the other side of that coin if you stood still in the middle of the sheep and screamed you would probably be attacked. Common sense says you don't do either. Just ride slowly or walk your bike through, no problems.

37 posted on 11/28/2009 6:08:45 PM PST by TigersEye (Sarah Palin 2010 - We Can't Afford To Wait)
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To: TigersEye

I’ve walked by Great Pyrenees sheepdogs a few times. ...even petted some the neighbors’ dogs, when the neighbors weren’t around. One would have to frighten the sheep pretty badly to get those dogs to bite people, as far as I know.


38 posted on 11/28/2009 6:11:55 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote)
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To: Nephi

First you postulate that he hired illegals which is not in the story then you state as fact that the illegals he hired were AWOL.

I have one thing to say to you. Shame they weren’t pit bulls.


39 posted on 11/28/2009 6:12:59 PM PST by Eaker (Kaiden sez, "If you have a problem and If explosives are an option then explosives are THE answer.")
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To: familyop; All

I agree with you. People demand their rights constantly, but forget their responsibilities. This couple obviously haven’t a clue about their own obligation to know what behavior they ought to exhibit when out on the range.

As an avid knitter, spinner, and weaver, I wanted my own flock of sheep for years, remembering fondly the flock we had when I was growing up. My dad told me I was just in for heartbreak, since the ‘burbanites moving to the country let their dogs run free, including running sheep to death.

This woman should have done a little homework about how to behave when coming across a flock of sheep. She could have badly spooked them by screaming and riding into the flock that way. The dogs were just doing their job, in my opinion.


40 posted on 11/28/2009 6:15:26 PM PST by jacquej
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To: familyop

Screaming probably sounds like a sheep being attacked to a sheep dog. Sheep do a lot of bleating but when attacked they do scream like neurotic lib-chicks. lol


41 posted on 11/28/2009 6:20:07 PM PST by TigersEye (Sarah Palin 2010 - We Can't Afford To Wait)
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To: ASOC

Yeah, herding dogs are completely different since the herding instinct is actually a modified attack and must be under human control. These dogs are usually high-energy friendly types that incidentally do their job by scaring the bejessus out of the sheep! Livestock guardians are the complete opposite. They want to protect the sheep because they think they ARE sheep too, and the sheep agree. They are large intimidating dogs, but very low key and quiet unless danger threatens.


42 posted on 11/28/2009 6:22:04 PM PST by Americanchild (The duct tape czar!)
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To: familyop; jazusamo; GladesGuru; proud_yank; rellimpank

Another city liberal discovers the real world.

She should go back to the city.


43 posted on 11/28/2009 6:27:27 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: missycocopuffs

For the briefest moment I slipped into my “King of the Universe” fantasy mode where the two yuppies were taken by plane and parachuted over a remote stretch of Amazon jungle with only a pair of J Crew sweaters, some organic power bars, and a blackberry with no reception.


44 posted on 11/28/2009 6:38:26 PM PST by IrishCatholic (No local Communist or Socialist Party Chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing!)
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To: missycocopuffs
said Steve Legro, 37.

Stick it where the sun don't shine Steven and may "The bird of Paradise fly up your noise".

45 posted on 11/28/2009 6:40:10 PM PST by org.whodat
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To: george76

She is not from the city George, she is from Chicago...


46 posted on 11/28/2009 6:47:04 PM PST by tubebender (Some minds are like concrete Thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: missycocopuffs

Her sense of personal entitlement would be lethal if she were to charge a range bull like she charged the sheep...maybe next time.


47 posted on 11/28/2009 6:48:43 PM PST by crazyhorse691 (Now that the libs are in power dissent is not only unpatriotic, but, it is also racist.)
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To: Americanchild; jacquej
"They want to protect the sheep because they think they ARE sheep too, and the sheep agree."

Yes, because they are raised from puppy-hood with the sheep. Having sheep for livestock is a 24/7 hassle--not easy at all.

Here's another situation that has happened. A stray dog (another neighbor's dog, for example) that doesn't belong around the sheep can cause sheep to bunch-up in the corner of an enclosure. In that scenario, some of the sheep will be asphyxiated to death from nothing more than fear of the strange dog. As you probably know, strange dogs running loose around a herd of sheep must be shot.


48 posted on 11/28/2009 6:50:45 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote)
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To: tubebender

Grand Pyrnees. Traditional sheephearding dogs.

Sheep herding dogs are agressive by nature. They are working dogs.


49 posted on 11/28/2009 6:52:28 PM PST by Chickensoup (We have the government we deserve.)
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To: Americanchild

Thanks for the info. That’s what I like about FR - lots of smart folks sharing good smarts.


50 posted on 11/28/2009 7:00:50 PM PST by ASOC (This space is for Sale or Rent - just like CONgress)
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