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Global Warming Fraud and the Future of Science
American Thinker ^ | November 29, 2009 | J.R. Dunn

Posted on 11/28/2009 11:39:04 PM PST by neverdem

The East Anglia Climate Research Unit (CRU) revelations come as no real surprise to anyone who has closely followed the global-warming saga. The Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) thesis, to give it its semi-official name, is no stranger to fraud. It would be no real exaggeration to state that it was fertilized with fraud, marinated in fraud, stewed in fraud, and at last served up to the world as prime grade-A fraud with nice side orders of fakery and disingenuousness. Damning as they may be, the CRU e-mails are merely the climactic element in an exhaustively long line.

A short tour of previous AGW highlights would include:

The Y2K Glitch.  This episode involved the NASA/GISS team led by James Hansen, possibly the most fanatical and unrelenting of all warmists, a man who makes Al Gore look like a skeptic. (Among other things, Hansen has demanded that warming "deniers" be tried for "crimes against humanity".)  While examining a series of NASA temperature graphs, Canadian statistician Steve McIntyre, himself not so much a skeptic as an anti-warming Van Helsing, uncovered a discontinuity occurring in January 2000 that raised temperatures gathered over widespread areas by 1-2 degrees Fahrenheit. McIntyre had no easy time of it, since Hansen refused to reveal what algorithm he'd used to process the data, forcing McIntyre to perform some very abstruse calculations to figure it out.

Once notified, Hansen's team promised to correct the error, stating that it was an "oversight". When the corrected figures were at last released, they rocked the church of warming from bingo hall to steeple. Vanished was the claim that the past few years were "the warmest on record". Now 1934 now took precedence. A full half of the top ten warmest years occurred before WW II, well prior to any massive CO2 buildup.

No explanation has ever been offered. We have a Y2K glitch that behaves like no other computer glitch ever encountered, uniformly affecting a large number of sources distributed almost nationwide. Although the incident trashed all recent data and raised uncomfortable questions about the warming thesis as a whole, NASA itself made no effort at an investigation or inquiry. All that we're ever going to hear is "oversight". I guess that's how they do things at NASA/GISS.

The Arctic Ice Melt. We've been informed for the better part of a decade that Arctic ice was melting at an unprecedented rate, and that the North Pole would be ice-free in twenty, thirty, or forty years, depending in the hysteria level of the media platform in question. In truth, ice thinning was due to a cyclical weather pattern in which winds blow ice floes south into warmer water. Everybody involved knew that this cycle occurred, everyone had seen it happen previously time out of mind. But it was too good an opportunity to pass up. Worse yet, when the weather returned to its normal pattern two years ago, large numbers of scientists put in considerable effort to suggest that the "new" ice was thinner than usual and would vanish in a flash as soon as the temperatures went back up. The media went along with the joke. The Germans have a phrase to cover such eventualities: this crew should be stripped of their trade. (Several expeditions setting out for the Pole to "call attention" to the coming Arctic catastrophe had to stop short due to icy conditions. In one case, both women involved suffered serious frostbite.)   

The Poor Polar Bears
. Closely related is the saga of the polar bears, staring extinction in the face due to warming while, somewhere beyond the aurora, Gaia weeps bitter tears. This was evidently inspired by a single photograph (you've seen it -- the entire world has at this point) of a woebegone polar bear crouched on a melting iceberg. That bear had to be sulking over allowing a nice juicy seal to escape, because it was in no danger. Out of the twenty major polar bear populations only two are known to be decreasing. Estimates of bear population (there are no exact figures) have increased over the past forty years, from 17,000 to19,000 to the current number of 22,000 to 27,000. The bears are becoming pests in municipalities such as Churchill and Point Barrow. (As clearly shown here.)  Despite all this, last year the bear was put on the U.S. "endangered" list.

The Hockey Stick That Wasn't. The "hockey stick" is a nickname for a chart prepared by Michael Mann, a University of Pennsylvania professor and leading warmist. The chart purports to show temperature levels for the past millennium, and consists of a straight line until it reaches the late 20th century, when it suddenly shoots upward, creating the "hockey stick" profile. This chart was a major feature of International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports on global warming and is a commonly-used media graphic.

This chart creates immediate doubt in anyone knowledgeable about the climate of the past millennium, which more resembles a roller coaster than a straight line. It developed -- in yet another impressive McIntyre takedown, this time with an assist from Ross McKitrick -- that Mann was utilizing an algorithm that would produce hockey sticks if you fed it telephone numbers. (Mann is the "Mike" mentioned in the CRU e-mails, and this is one of his "tricks".) Despite this disclosure, Mann has never withdrawn the chart, offered an explanation, or made a correction. The chart remains an accepted piece of evidence among warmists.

Tree-Ring Circus. Due to the fact that direct temperature measures for past epochs are lacking, climatologists utilize "proxy measures", such as tree rings, glacial moraines, and lake sediments. Tree rings have played an important part in the warming controversy, as evidence backing the claim that temperatures have been consistently lower worldwide until recently. A crucial series of measurements, utilized by Mann among others, involves trees located on the Yamal peninsula in Siberia. How many trees were measured, you ask? A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand?

The answer is twelve. A number perfectly adequate to trigger international panic, overthrow the capitalist system, establish a Green totalitarianism, and completely turn Western culture on its head.

But it turns out that further measurements were in fact made in the area, involving at least thirty-four other trees. And when this data is added to the original twelve, then the warming evidence disappears into the same branch of the Twilight Zone as the blade of Mann's hockey stick. Another "oversight", you understand.

We could go on to mention the automated U.S. weather stations chronicled by the tireless Anthony Watts, which were conscientiously placed next to air-con vents, atop sewage plants, in parking lots, and in one case, in a swamp (as many as 90% may be giving spurious high readings). The glaciers that are vanishing worldwide except where they aren't. The endless papers demonstrating that the coral reefs, along with various birds, animals, insects, and plants, are facing extinction even though no warming whatsoever has occurred for twelve years. (And in the thirty years before that, the total rise was 1.25 degrees Fahrenheit, easily within normal variation.) Powerful stuff, this warming -- it maims and destroys even when it's not happening.  

It's within this context that the East Anglia e-mails must be judged. The vanishingly small number of  legacy media writers who are paying attention behave as if the messages comprise some kind of puzzling anomaly, with no relation to anything that came before. In truth, they stand as the internal memos from the East Anglia branch of the Nigerian National Bank, which can save us from the horrors of global warming after payment of a small up-front fee.

There is always a deeper level to the damage caused by fraud. It strains social relationships, generates cynicism, and debases standing institutions. What has suffered the most damage from AGW is faith in the scientific method, the basic set of procedures -- it could be called an algorithm -- governing scientific investigation. These procedures embody simplicity itself: you examine a phenomenon. You gather data. You construct a hypothesis to explain that phenomenon. And then...

Well, first, let's cover what you don't do.


What you do, if you are a serious scientist operating according to the established method, is attempt to falsify your hypothesis. Test it to destruction; carry out serious attacks on its weakest points to see if they hold up. If they do -- and the vast majority of hypotheses suffer the indignity embodied in a phrase attributed variously to Thomas Huxley and Lord Kelvin: "a beautiful theory slain by an ugly fact" -- then you have a theory that can be published, and tested, and verified by other scientists. If you don't, you throw it out.

None of this, amidst all the chicanery, fabrications, and manipulations, appears to have been done by anyone active in global warming research, the CRU least of all. From which point we are forced to conclude that AGW is not science, and that any "consensus" that can drawn from it is a consensus of fraud. 

(The late-breaking revelations of temperature manipulations at New Zealand's NiWA institute   -- another one of Mike's tricks? -- merely underlines the lesson of CRU. Now that the dam has busted, we'll be hearing dozens of stories like this over the weeks and months to come.)

The West is a technological society. Science is as responsible for making us what we have become as any other factor, including the democratic system of government. The two are in fact complementary, each supporting and encouraging the other across the decades since this country was established. (And yes, I am aware that Britain and Germany were both centers of scientific progress, both of them nations liberalized by the example of the United States. Even the utterly authoritarian Bismarck was forced to heed the voice of the people despite his inclination to do anything but.)

The technology developed from scientific research has created a world that would be unrecognizable to our forebears of even a century ago. Technology has transformed diet, health, communications, and transportation. It has doubled lifespans in advanced countries. Prior to the modern epoch, few ever caught a glimpse of the world past their own farming fields. India, China, and Africa were wild myths, the Pacific and Antarctica utterly unknown, the planets and stars merely pretty lights in the sky. Technology opened the world, not just for everyday men and women, but for invalids, the disabled, and the subnormal, who once lived lives of almost incomprehensible deprivation. Technology was a crucial factor in the dissolution of the ancient empires, the humbling of the aristocracies.

As Paul Johnson has pointed out, a technological breakout appeared imminent at a number of points in the past millennium. Consider the anonymous Hussite engineer of the 15th century who left a notebook even more breathtaking than that of Leonardo, or the revolutionary English Levelers of the 17th century who dreamed of flying machines and factories. If a breakout had occurred at those times, the consequences would have been unimaginable. But the Hussites were destroyed by the German princes, the Levelers by the reestablishment of the English crown. It required the birth of a true democratic republic in the late 18th century to provide the setting for a serious scientific-technical takeoff, one that after 200 years has brought us to where we stand today, gazing out at the galaxies beyond the galaxies with the secret of life itself within reach.

It is this, and no less, that scientific fraud threatens. This is no trivial matter; it involves one of the basic elements of modern Western life. When scientific figures lie, they lie to all of us. If they foment serious distrust of the scientific endeavor -- as they are doing -- they are creating a schism in the heart of our culture, a wound that in the long run could prove even more deadly than the Jihadi terrorists.

Such failings are not relegated only to climatology. With the apparent success of the climate hustlers, it has infected all areas of research. Over the past decade, stem-cell studies have proven a hotbed of fraud. Recall Dr. Hwang Woo Suk, the South Korean biologist who claimed to have cloned various higher animals and isolated new stem cell lines, to worldwide applause. Suk was discovered to have faked all his research, prompting the South Korean government to ban him from taking part in any further work. Nor was he alone. Researchers throughout the field have been caught fabricating and manipulating data, and at least one large biotech company has developed the habit of announcing grand breakthroughs to goose its stock prices.

A number of factors are responsible, among them the grant-making process, which rewards extravagant claims and demands matching results, and the superstar factor, in which media adulation creates a sense of intellectual arrogance -- as in the case of Dr. Suk -- unmatched since Galileo's heyday. But the major problem lies in politics, specifically as involves ideology.

In both major recent cases of fraud, science had become entwined and infected with ideology to a point where its very nature had been transformed. It was no longer science in the classic mold, boldly asking basic questions without fear or favor. It had become an ideological tool, carrying out only such research as met with the approval of political elites. Stem-cell research had become enmeshed with the abortion question. Embryonic stem cells, obtained by "processing" aborted babies, received the lion's share of funding and attention despite its showing no potential whatsoever. Adult stem cells, obtainable from bone marrow, skin cells, or virtually any other part of the body, were shunted aside despite extraordinarily promising research results. This bias permeated the entire field and distorted all perceptions of it -- one of the reasons Dr. Suk was so wildly overpraised was his willingness to attack Pres. George W. Bush for limiting embryonic stem-cell exploitation.

The climatology story is little different. Environmentalist Greens needed a threat, one that menaced not only technological civilization but life on earth itself. They had promoted an endless parade of such threats since the 1960s -- overpopulation, pollution, runaway nuclear power, and global cooling -- only to see them shrivel like popped balloons. They required a menace that was overwhelming, long-term, and not easily disproven. With warming, the climatologists gave them one. In exchange for sky-high funding, millennial scientists, the heirs of Bacon, Copernicus, and Einstein, men who bled and suffered for the sake of their work, continually inflated the nature and extent of the CO2 threat, using, as we now know, the sleaziest methods available. The result has been complete intellectual degradation. 

Scientists were once among the most trusted figures in Western public life, similar to bankers, priests, and doctors, but in a real sense standing above them all. Scientists were honored as truth-tellers, aware that their reputation for veracity and seriousness was their only real asset. And while exceptions existed (read the story of Blondlot and his N-rays,   for one example), the public took them at their own valuation.

That is ended, one with the scholastic monasteries and the academy at Athens. Scientists today are well on their way to becoming an amalgam of the cheap politician and the three-card monte dealer. They are viewed by the less educated as a privileged class making alarming and impudent claims for their own benefit. The better informed find ourselves in the uncomfortable position of being unable to defend something we once admired.

The next set of questions in physics cannot be answered without equipment costing billions at the very least, and possibly much more. Will a disbelieving public pay for that? We are facing serious dilemmas concerning breakthroughs in biology, not only in stem-cell technology but also in neurology and synthetic biology, breakthroughs that threaten to distort the very nature of humanity itself. Should we leave the solutions up to people who want us to pick a card, any card?

The collaboration between science and democracy is one of the great achievements of human history. It is now threatened by the behavior of people at the very heart of that collaboration. If it is destroyed, something of unparalleled value will have vanished, something that will be nearly impossible to replace. If the Western world wishes to continue its magnificent upward journey, we will have to save science from itself. An errant and corrupt climatology is the place to start.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: climategate; globalwarming; globalwarmingfraud; integrity; science; scientificmethod
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To: CottShop; betty boop; tacticalogic; Alamo-Girl; neverdem; metmom; GodGunsGuts
And, if anyone wants to claim that the "AGW CO2 lie" is harmless, consider this:

Even the Supreme Court of the USA has been so misled that it has issued an opinion that, on its face, is scandalously wrong!

51 posted on 11/30/2009 9:54:44 AM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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To: TXnMA

Exactly, the courts (and yes, even the supreme court) are no longer objective, but rather are now political legislators with hte power to enforce laws based o ntheir subjective interpretations- Sandra Day O’Connor’s opinion about ‘seperation of Church and state’ proved that she is NOT fit to sit hte bench, showign that she is more concerned abotu agenda than she is about upholding her sworn duty to objectively rule. She legislated sentiments concerning ‘seperation of church and state’ by claiming anyone in government who observes religion in public is trying to ‘force or coerce’ others to do so as well- to ‘establish a religion to the exclusion of other religions’ which oif course is an assinine claim

The supreme court has been scandalous for a great many years now- and this global warmign issue will prove to be just an ongoing perversion of the judicial system.

Judge Jones also proved his unnabashed bias when he wrote the brief against ID in the dover trial- proving conclusively that he wasm ore interested in agenda than he is abotu justice and truth- His brief/opinion was a travesty of justice, which of course the left immediately praised and called ‘brilliant’- but anyoen with an iota of objectivity and commojn sense can see he severely overstepped his authority and duty to objectivity by stating the assinine biased crap that he did- and just for hte record, his opinion was almost a carbon copy of the ACLU’s ‘opinion’ on the ruling- prewritten, just wating for the ‘verdict’ (lynching)


52 posted on 11/30/2009 10:09:08 AM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop; Alamo-Girl; TXnMA; tacticalogic; neverdem; Jeff Head; Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus; ...
And the worst part about it is we can do absolutely nothing to stop it....

Bite your tongue, dear brother in Christ! What is it with all this "doom-saying?"

Here's the scenario I envision, FWIW: The Big 0 goes to Copenhagen, to "universal" fawning applause as a known long-time spear-carrier for the cause of AGW. He is, of course, by now the President of the United States.

The gurus and their acolytes then conduct their obligatory Seance, and lo! and behold! They issue forth their Sacred Salvational Document!!! That will literally save the human race from itself!!! And lead to peace and love and prosperity and all kinds of goodies for the human race forever more — the dawning of the New [manmade] Heaven on Earth!!! [Just trust us.]

Then Our Hero returns with Caesar's laurels to his fawning Left Progressive audience here, including whoever else The Big 0 has conned into thinking he is a "great man" [or at least a politically useful one].

He has declared: YES!!! to The Sacred Document!!! He is its Messiah in America! Hallelujah!!!

Somebody please pass me a barf bag.

Alternatively: This situation would be absolutely hilarious, were it not so deadly serious — and dangerous.

Fact is, Copenhagen couldn't become American law just on The Big 0's say-so. His treaty power is limited by the "advice and consent" role of the Senate. (This is just one of the "pesky ways" the federal Constitution throws up barriers to his ambition. I expect he just hasn't quite figured out how to get around this one yet.... )

So my dear friends, the action moves to the Senate. They have the Constitutional warrant to "advise and consent" on presidential treaty-making powers. And it takes 67 senators to concur before any treaty can become American law.

The good news is: the Senate refused to ratify the Kyoto Treaty. Since their first refusal, they could have changed their mind at any time, and brought it back for another vote. They never did.

But now Kyoto has been succeeded by the Copenhagen festivities. Since Copenhagen is little more than The Second Coming of Kyoto — which was fundamentally a profound attack on American sovereignty (as well as the sovereignty of every other Nation-State in the world) — then one hopes the Senate will continue to refuse to "go along." We the People must do everything in our power to "encourage" them to continue in that refusal.

But one anticipates The Big 0 can find "helpers" in the Senate, by hook or by crook.... [Rahm Emmanuel, David Axelrod, et al., enter Stage Left.... Bring in the "fixers!"]

Among other things, we might mention to our Senators that the science on which this entire policy debate is founded and depends is just so much "witchcraft." And in the most scandalous way imaginable: as involving the compromise of one of the most "sacred tools" the human race has for reliably understanding its position in the World: the integrity of science itself.

So people, pay attention to goings on in the Senate!!! And hold your own Senators' feet to the fire.

This must be stopped. This is the wholesale selling of America into perpetual slavery and/or oblivion — IOW, this is the "fire sale."

53 posted on 11/30/2009 11:55:03 AM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: TXnMA; Alamo-Girl; tacticalogic; CottShop; metmom; GodGunsGuts; xzins
Even the Supreme Court of the USA has been so misled that it has issued an opinion that, on its face, is scandalously wrong!

Unfortunately dear brother in Christ, the Justices of the Supreme Court are not trained scientists. Nor was Judge Jones....

The point being that science and its controversies should never be within the purview of courts of law for their adjudication. Only a person from Mars could argue that would be a "good thing."

54 posted on 11/30/2009 12:00:53 PM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: TXnMA; Alamo-Girl; tacticalogic; CottShop; metmom; GodGunsGuts; xzins
What a beautiful, beautiful testimony, dear brother in Christ!

I can only reply: Thank you from my heart, and all praise and glory be to God!

55 posted on 11/30/2009 12:03:59 PM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: betty boop

Well put.

Witchcraft, indeed.

Literally, probably, at some level.

Thx.


56 posted on 11/30/2009 12:08:11 PM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: betty boop
The point being that science and its controversies should never be within the purview of courts of law for their adjudication. Only a person from Mars could argue that would be a "good thing."

That explains a lot......

57 posted on 11/30/2009 12:09:14 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: betty boop

I suspect the critter from Mars would have more sense . . . providing he wasn’t a fallen angel . . .


58 posted on 11/30/2009 12:09:29 PM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: betty boop

What fascinates me is to look at how well this fraud has been sold to the public. If your kids are in school, they’ve been well indoctrinated in it. It has been pushed in all of the media, and almost no one dares to deny it in public. This is classic naked-emperor stuff in which people who see the king in his underwear are shouted down and mau-maued into silence.

This is worth studying from the viewpoint of a lesson in mind control on a massive level. They took something that wasn’t true, changed the data, and essentially dared anyone to call them on it. And almost no one did, so intimidated were they, and so desperate are most people to be on the winning team.

Some of us are used to being in the minority, but for most people, its very uncomfortable, and if you can convince them that all the smart people think “x”, then they’ll do any contortion necessary to think the same.

This was the biggest money-laundering scheme, the biggest Madoff securities scam, and the biggest power grab in history, and it almost worked. This episode should be studied as classic propaganda, classic mind control, just like war colleges study famous battles.


59 posted on 11/30/2009 12:22:18 PM PST by marron
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To: marron; Alamo-Girl; Quix; TXnMA; tacticalogic; CottShop; metmom; GodGunsGuts; xzins
This was the biggest money-laundering scheme, the biggest Madoff securities scam, and the biggest power grab in history, and it almost worked. This episode should be studied as classic propaganda, classic mind control, just like war colleges study famous battles.

Indeed and agreed. Funny how the MSM isn't covering it....

I only hope that your "almost worked" language is prophetic.

AGW has been from the first a massive propaganda operation. It does not rest on scientific grounds at all, only on ideological grounds. Finally, crystal-clear evidence has surfaced that this is precisely the case.

Thank you ever so much, dear marron, for your penetrating insights on this score!

60 posted on 11/30/2009 1:26:18 PM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: Quix; Alamo-Girl; marron; xzins
Witchcraft, indeed.

The preferred scenario....

It gives all the power to human imagination, without constraint — that is, the imagination has no limit, it owes nothing to anything beyond its own confabulations by which such may be tested for truth value.

It makes man the measure....

But hallucinatory experiences of this kind do not change the nature or structure of Reality, only the way the man experiences it. Reality is indestructible; man is not. Ergo, man's experience does not, cannot, determine Reality: He is a participant in it, not the Maker of it.

But the temptation to witchcraft is oh! so ancient....

Thank you, dear brother in Christ, for writing!

61 posted on 11/30/2009 1:38:40 PM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: Quix; Alamo-Girl
I suspect the critter from Mars would have more sense . . . providing he wasn’t a fallen angel . . .

Funny, but I wonder about questions like that myself nowadays, dear brother in Christ!

62 posted on 11/30/2009 1:40:21 PM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: metmom
That explains a lot......

Yep. Sure does to me. :^)

63 posted on 11/30/2009 1:42:27 PM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: betty boop

[[Bite your tongue, dear brother in Christ! What is it with all this “doom-saying?”]]

Thanks, now my tongue is bleeding.

Well, I’ve just got this sinking feeling, after reading how all the nations are ignoring climategate, and pushing for copenhagen mandates, that obama is simply goign to ram through massive agreements in copenhagen. I’ve watched him give america them iddle finger ever since he in essence told America to screw off when he said his relationship with the ‘REv’ wright’, and has continued doing so calling teaprty folks a derogatory homosexual term, Sicking his SEIU THUGS on protestors who simply wanted their voices heard by this administration, and telling hard working citizens to shut up and ‘let him fix the mess we caused’, and now, watchign him go ful lsteam ahead to copenhagen- He’s got a consistant track record of not listenign to the citizens, and doign just as he pleases

[[Alternatively: This situation would be absolutely hilarious, were it not so deadly serious — and dangerous.]]

Exactly- this global warming caused by man scam is a VERY serious issue, and one that will undoubtably cause peopel to go hungry, possibly even being deadly to those hwo simpyl won’t be able to afford anymore taxes, fines, and mandates.

[[Fact is, Copenhagen couldn’t become American law just on The Big 0’s say-so. His treaty power is limited by the “advice and consent” role of the Senate.]]

Yeah, I know, and that’s our only real hope- but there’s two scenarios that can take place here- #1: The democrats collectively decide to commit politcal suicide by ramming this collosal fraud through, agaisnt the will of the people, so that their Dear Leader will go down in history as ‘The only president who ‘cared abotu the environment’ and did soemthign about it (despite the fact that nothign we do can EVER change the climate an iota), or two- soem dems wil lbail on him, preferign to stand a possible chance of reelection.

I’d say that theoretically speasking, one woudl think the latter was goign to happen- however, Obama has said several times now that he’s willing to sacrifice a second term in order to impliment his mandates- He’s gung-ho to go down in history as a ‘legend’ even htough it’ll only be in his own mind- and There’s another fact here too that factors in- The democrats are tryign to reduce the amount of needed votes to what? 56 now? 54? or whatever they are tryign to call for- claiming that ‘nothign ever gets passed because of stonewalling and non-coloperation’ so they’re trying to pull a fast one here, and may very well do so friom what I’m reading

[[(This is just one of the “pesky ways” the federal Constitution throws up barriers to his ambition. I expect he just hasn’t quite figured out how to get around this one yet.... )]]

See my reply above-

[[And it takes 67 senators to concur before any treaty can become American law. ]]

I wasn’t aware of that- thought it was only 60?

[[The good news is: the Senate refused to ratify the Kyoto Treaty.]]

Under Pres. Bush though- with majority repub- remember- we’re dealign with power hungry, money-grubbing democrats who, as I’ve thought all along now, will grab whatever they can while they have the ‘opportunity’ knowing they are not goign to last very long in power after obama rams through all his tax and spend mandates- they figure “We’re out anyways, let’s grab our ‘piece of the pie’ while it’s still hot and plenty

[[Since Copenhagen is little more than The Second Coming of Kyoto — which was fundamentally a profound attack on American sovereignty (as well as the sovereignty of every other Nation-State in the world) — then one hopes the Senate will continue to refuse to “go along.” ]]

I sure hope you’re right. But I have serious doubts, and hte reason why is explained above- I used to run a blog which followed the climate scam for about 3 years- I finally gave up, thinking it was never goign to end, because I saw scientyist after scientists speak out agaisnt hte scam, only to be either ignored or ridiculed and bullied by the agendists. I had reposted reams of evidence showing ‘man-caused’ global warmign to be a scam, and showing it to be purely natural, and operfectly expected- and had reams of evidence refuting many of them ore extravagent claism by the alarmists- You can’t imagine how frustrated I became knowing hte mainstream media was doing everythign in their power to silence anty opposition to their religious agenda.

My hopes spiked a bit when this climategate issue broke, but, watchign the world leaders totally ignore climategate, and knowing obama and his disdain for Aemricans

[[But one anticipates The Big 0 can find “helpers” in the Senate, by hook or by crook....]]

Or by 300 million dollar bribes

I’ll certainly hope for the best, and try to contact folks like Inhofe, and others who have been tryign right along to expose the scam, but they have been, and wil lbe, up against a bunch of money-grubbing thugs who care nothign about facts or the will of the people- and again, the tax and spend democrats know they only have a limited time to extort as much money as possible from we the people- nkowing full well that they will most likely be ousted, and it’s my impression that we are goign to be scammed despite the revelations that it is a scam


64 posted on 11/30/2009 2:11:32 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: marron

[[What fascinates me is to look at how well this fraud has been sold to the public. If your kids are in school, they’ve been well indoctrinated in it. It has been pushed in all of the media, and almost no one dares to deny it in public. This is classic naked-emperor stuff in which people who see the king in his underwear are shouted down and mau-maued into silence.]]

Exactly, and that’s precisely why we can’t fight it- Even powerful folks like Inhofe can’t fight this, because the left owns public education, owns the media, owns every propagandist outlet known practically, and they are pushing for even more control by goign after conservative voices, and proposing constitution violating mandates liek the ‘fairness doctrine’

[[They took something that wasn’t true, changed the data, and essentially dared anyone to call them on it.]]

EXACTLY- they stuck their middle finger in our faces and glared at us, and dared us to try to stop them

[[And almost no one did, so intimidated were they,]]

again- EXACTLY- those that did try- got maligned, ridiculed, insulted, and bullied into silence, Ostracised, and ignored by the mainstream medai- and htose that tried via teaparties, were intimidated by obama’s thugs SEIU

[[This was the biggest money-laundering scheme, the biggest Madoff securities scam, and the biggest power grab in history, and it almost worked.]]

It still very well may work- the PM of Australia just came out claiming he represents the ‘commonwealth’ of some 2 billion people who ‘want climate change mandates’ to ‘save the planet’- Again- they are stickign hteir middle figner in our faces and essentially saying “Yeah, it’s a scam- it got exposed... but we dare you to try to stop us- we WILL ruin you IF you try!!!”

Great post Marron- You described the exact issues underlying htis scam perfectly


65 posted on 11/30/2009 2:19:42 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: betty boop

Here’s the commonwealth I was refering to- it looks liek they are simpyl going to ignore climategate, and go right ahead with scamming ‘rich nations’ as though no scandal ever existed- that’s mainly why I’ve got a sinking feelign they are goign to ram this through- even here in the states.

“World leaders spruik climate deal chances

“Hopes for a new global climate pact have risen after rich nations at the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM) in Trinidad and Tobago offered to help poorer countries bear the costs of implementing any deal.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2397138/posts


66 posted on 11/30/2009 2:28:36 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; marron; Quix

If we took all 6.7 billion people in the entire world and put them in a square 3 ft by 3 ft, they would all fit in southern Ohio. If we gave each family its own quarter acre lot with a house, they’d all fit in a box formed from Mississippi west to New Mexico and Mississippi north to Minnesota, about 1000 miles on a side and that’s adding streets.

At that point, the entire remainder of the planet would be totally empty.

I worked out on my back 40 today and didn’t see a single soul....and it’s the first day of deer-gun season.

My point: the human footprint isn’t as large as some would have you think.


67 posted on 11/30/2009 2:58:00 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: betty boop
An interesting question is why is science abandoning its "professional ethics?" Especially since it should be obvious that if science turns its back on ethical criteria, it undermines its own method and instantly ceases to be science.

"Science" is a pursuit. "Scientists" are people. "Science" has abandoned nothing. A group of scientists abandoned their professional ethics. You have already answered the "why" - it's all about money, prestige, influence, and — finally — POWER (political and financial) .

Trying to make these people the personification of "science" does a disservice to all the honest scientists out there.

68 posted on 11/30/2009 3:44:16 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: betty boop

There are persistent allegations that the elites have a variety of witchcraft initiatioins into their ruling circles . . . whether the sacrificing literally of their children in a horrific bloody ritual or buggering little boys . . .

entirely believable given certain givens.

They have clearly been foisting on the public at large around the world a list of horrific delusions and fantasies as facts for a long time.

And, as Scripture declares, God Himself has surrendered a number of folks/souls to DELUSION because of their rebelions against Him.

Dreadfully sad.

In the end, there will be vivid object lessons of what rebellion against Him results in vs what Love of and submission to Him results in.


69 posted on 11/30/2009 4:32:43 PM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: xzins

Quite so.


70 posted on 11/30/2009 4:33:57 PM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: tacticalogic
"Trying to make these people the personification of "science" does a disservice to all the honest scientists out there. "

Thank you...

71 posted on 11/30/2009 7:34:50 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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To: xzins

[[My point: the human footprint isn’t as large as some would have you think.]]

Exactly, but the global disaster alarmists use msoke and mirror alarmism to fool everyone into thinking the world can’t sustain too many more people- and when you bring up the fact that you just mentioned, they retort “Yeah, but who would want to live i na 3x3 square? That’s unreasonable’ as though that argument somehow refutes the FACT that there’s a hell of a lot of space on this planet- or they’ll throw out somehtign like “Yeah, but a lot of the ‘space’ is ocean or jungle or desert (which of course is just another smoek and mirror misdirection meant to distract the potential convert from noticing that there stil lwoudl remain a hell of a lot of open space untouched and uncivilized)


72 posted on 11/30/2009 7:50:49 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Quix

[[And, as Scripture declares, God Himself has surrendered a number of folks/souls to DELUSION because of their rebelions against Him.]]

It’s a very fearful and dreadful thing when God turns His face from someone, and hands them over to the evil one because of their rebellion against Him- The Evil One gladly takes any such folks and torments them day and night with delusions and lost sanity, tremors and tremblings. as you said, a very sad thing indeed


73 posted on 11/30/2009 7:54:12 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: neverdem
Great article. Again, thanks for posting.

The collaboration between science and democracy is one of the great achievements of human history.

The author gets it wrong here, and I know he's writing to a certain audience. But, the real collaboration was between science and religion, both pursuits of truth in their own spheres.

This alliance came to fruition in the West and particularly in America (with help from the ancients including Muslims who helped preserve even older knowledge). What we are seeing is the decoupling of religion, particularly the moral foundation of the Judeo-Christian traditions. The result is moral relativism where the ends justify the means.

There are sincere Greens, but on balance they're watermelons. Old school communists that desire the destruction of the West and America in particular through any means. The confluence of money and power just make it easier. At the end of the day, what is at stake is the truth itself.

There is no neutral in this war.

74 posted on 11/30/2009 8:21:26 PM PST by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: CottShop

INDEED.

Soberingly horrific even to contemplate from a distance.


75 posted on 11/30/2009 8:24:12 PM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: TXnMA; betty boop
(BB & A-G, can you recall the last time one of us claimed we had "PROOF" -- of anything?)

Of course not! After all, you are a scientist.

As you say, the word "proof" only applies in mathematics and trial law.

76 posted on 11/30/2009 9:30:58 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: TXnMA
Those who do not have that "love of discovery" that "drives" a true scientist simply cannot comprehend how destructive the mere concept of "foregone conclusion that must be 'proven'" is to the bedrock foundation of the scientific endeavour.

Precisely so, dear brother in Christ!

77 posted on 11/30/2009 9:32:44 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop; marron; xzins; TXnMA
Truly, I pray marron's "almost worked" is prophetic.

Thank you all so very much for your wonderful insights!

78 posted on 11/30/2009 9:39:11 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop; CottShop; Alamo-Girl; TXnMA; Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

betty remarked: Then Our Hero returns with Caesar’s laurels to his fawning Left Progressive audience here, including whoever else The Big 0 has conned into thinking he is a “great man” [or at least a politically useful one].

Spirited: The circle must be made complete before we can clearly see it as a circle and not merely an arc. That said, consider the following quote from “In the Shadow of Leviathan....http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2377776/posts

“The initial testing grounds was conducted upon our Holy Russia,” notes Mishin, “and a bloody test it was.”

Who financed the bloody test? “Wall Street,” says Mishin.

In his book “The Naked Capitalist,” W. Cleon Skousen exposes the unholy alliance of bankers and capitalists collectively defined as “Wall Street” by Mishin. Skousen verifies his findings through the writings of Dr. Carroll Quigley, both a professor of history at the Foreign Service School at Georgetown University and mentor to Bill Clinton. In his opus, “Tragedy and Hope,” Quigley deliberately reveals one of the world’s best-kept secrets: the existence of a gigantic leviathan of political and economic power poised to seize control of the planet.

The gargantuan power complex says Quigley, has been - right from the start - controlling Marxist-Communist-Socialist groups,

“...the power that...Left-wingers exercised was never their own power or communist power but...the power of the international financial coterie.” (p. 954, Tragedy and Hope)

Why did Quigley expose the existence of the global financial coterie? Because he says, it is now too late for the little people to turn the tide. He urges them to not fight the noose that is already around their necks, for they will only hang themselves.

“On the other hand, those who go along with the immense pressure which is beginning to be felt by all humanity will eventually find themselves in a man-made millennium of peace and prosperity.” (Skousen, The Naked Capitalist, pp. 4-6) See the funders here: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDes c.asp?type=funder

Today, there is at least one well-respected ‘right-wing’ website that refuses to publish “In the Shadow....” Why? Because of the “Wall Street” connection. Supposedly, Wall Street is on the side of traditional values America. And while there yet remain many business leaders who are loyal to traditional values America, a check of Horowitz’s website, DiscovertheNetwork/Funders will reveal the extent to which powerful Wall Street insiders support a globalist NWO, which means that very large numbers of Americans unknowingly work for and spend their hard-earned dollars in businesses that are betraying all of us.

For example: Do you buy Playboy? Use porn? Then you are unwittingly financing the destruction of traditional values America. Is your favorite soft-drink Coca Cola? Coke, along with 100 other Wall Street insiders is spearheading a drive to impose a global tax on Americans. Again, check out Horowitz’s website.

Our Republic’s founders warned that only a well-informed, virtuous people—people characterized by impulse control-— can be a free people.

Truth is often bitter, and the bitter truth is that moral corruption and ignorance rather than virtue and true knowledge characterizes the majority of Americans today. And as corrupt people are characterized by lack of impulse control,-—their eyes are bigger than their stomachs, wallets, etc-—they naturally elect leaders who likewise lack impulse control in order to ‘get what they want.’ Consider for example, the voters who keep Barney Franks in office.

And now the connection between corrupt leaders-—including corrupt educationists-— and corrupt bankers-Wall Street insiders comes into focus, for it’s insider Wall Street corporatists and bankers who market the addictive vices, ie. porn, sex, McMansions for ‘everyone,’ etc. Meanwhile, corrupt media floods the airwaves with seductive vice and propaganda, corrupt educationists dumb Americans down, and corrupt politicians, jurists, etc. obligingly redefine vice as ‘new rights,’——modernity’s version of yesterday’s ‘bread and circuses.’ Voila! A manipulable ‘barbarian constituency motivated by destructive impulses’-—a weapon of both destruction and control-— has been created by globalists who wield it against traditional values forces and America itself.


79 posted on 12/01/2009 6:10:07 AM PST by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish

Wall Street letting Playboy fall into bankruptcy must be a clever ruse.


80 posted on 12/01/2009 12:50:39 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: spirited irish; Alamo-Girl; tacticalogic; CottShop; TXnMA; marron; Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Our Republic’s founders warned that only a well-informed, virtuous people—people characterized by impulse control-— can be a free people.

So very true, spirited irish! The Republic's Founders were very well aware of the "downside" of human nature. As you note, only "impulse control" can keep a person and a society in good order. I do believe the Framers would have agreed with you about this.

The problem is, without a moral center, there is no source for "impulse control." What society has evidently lost, in the post-modern period, is any idea of a moral center. Previously, the moral center was derived from the laws of God, or Natural Law (if one is not a theist). Our materialist, empiricist culture has failed to produce any rationale for a new moral center that can serve a good and just society. With God "gone," and Natural Law disparaged, no substitute has yet been found; and I strongly doubt one is being sought.

What we are left with is what I'd call the Naked Individual. He stands alone, with no helps beyond his own (puny!) powers. Thus we proceed to the laws of the jungle, a sort of "every man for himself" mentality. The implication being: What is good for me personally is "moral."

But you cannot build a peaceful, prosperous, just and good society on a "moral code" or "moral foundation" like that. IMHO FWIW.

Go figure.

Thank you so very much for your excellent, perceptive essay/post, dear spirited irish!

81 posted on 12/02/2009 10:08:02 AM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: xzins; Alamo-Girl; CottShop; marron; Quix; tacticalogic
My point: the human footprint isn’t as large as some would have you think.

I so agree!

You know what is really ironic here, xzins? Man Writ Large is "guilty" (according to them) of being the source of the "global warming problem." Which anybody with even general knowledge of the long-term cyclical weather warming/cooling patterns over the course of the Earth's history — some warming cycles occurring before the arrival of man — would know simply isn't true.

But all the "expert" solutions to this problem involve writing Man Very Small indeed (i.e., stripping him of his natural liberties)....

That's why it's perhaps not so very strange that these scurrilous AGW boosters were caught red-handed slaving over the design of algorithms to feed their models that would not only obscure the Medieval Warming Period, but would produce "evidence" of the kinds of gradual, inexorable overall warming trend, spiking in the "hockey stick" of suddenly rapid acceleration in the most recent period, that they wanted to see — all due, they say, to human activities.

Question: What was the massive (human-caused) hydrocarbon threat that brought on the rather long-lived warming in the Mediaeval Period? In this period, Greenland was an agricultural paradise, sustaining both crop production and animal husbandry.

Then it got cold again. Human-caused CO2 emissions had nothing to do with either.

Thank you so much, dear brother in Christ, for your most astute observations!

82 posted on 12/02/2009 10:35:14 AM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: betty boop

[[The problem is, without a moral center, there is no source for “impulse control.” What society has evidently lost, in the post-modern period, is any idea of a moral center.]]

Exactly- objective universal morals have given way to lust, $$, power, and pride appeasing subjective ‘morals’

[[With God “gone,” and Natural Law disparaged, no substitute has yet been found; and I strongly doubt one is being sought.]]

Subjective morals are always inferior to objective morals- always. Any subjective laws or morals that come close to being fair and balanced are simply objective morals which have been watered down

[[What we are left with is what I’d call the Naked Individual. He stands alone, with no helps beyond his own (puny!) powers.]]

Yep- but pride prevents him from admitting that he’s puny an inferior, and he’ll never admit his subjective morality is inferior to God’s universal objective morality because he’s blinded by his own pride, the only thing that can reveal the inferiority of his subjectivem orality, is the Holy spirit removing hte scales from his eyes

Good post- We’re seeing hte corruption of the subjective morality play out perfectly in this global warmign scandal which pretends to be about ‘the little poor nations’ who ‘need our help’ but when the scam is revealed, it shows how ugly, how self-centered, and how corrupt this ‘morality’ really is, and hte left, the subjective ‘moralists’ are furious that their scam and lies have been exposed- let’s just hope objective morality and truth take hteir rightful place once more


83 posted on 12/02/2009 10:37:15 AM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop; Alamo-Girl
Thanks, now my tongue is bleeding.

Please forgive me, dear brother in Christ: I had no idea how much you'd suffered over this problem already! It's especially disheartening to see a lie seemingly thrive due to propagandistic "boosting."

You wrote: "I wasn’t aware of that [i.e., the number of Senators it takes to ratify a treaty] — thought it was only 60?"

Article II, Section 2: "...[POTUS] shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two-thirds of the Senators present concur...."

Occasionally, the Constitution requires "supermajorities" for certain extremely vital constitutional purposes. This is one of them: if 100 Senators are "present" for the vote, then it would take 67 "Yeas" before any treaty could be ratified.

Another interesting supermajority requirement shows up in Article V, the constitutional Amendment process. It takes two-thirds of both houses of Congress to propose an amendment; either that or it may proceed on the "Application of the Legislatures of two-thirds of the several States" calling for a Constitutional Convention, before the amendment process can commence. Then it takes another supermajority to pass it: three-quarters of the States must say "Yea" to ratify an amendment to the Constitution.

Evidently the Framers wanted to make the Amendment process as difficult as possible! They weren't big on lots of light, nickel-and-dime revisions to what they had wrought. Yet they provided the amendment process as the only bona-fide way to change the Constitution, for they realized that "times change."

Thank you every so much for writing, dear CottShop!

84 posted on 12/02/2009 10:53:39 AM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: CottShop; Alamo-Girl; xzins; Quix; spirited irish; marron; tacticalogic
Subjective morals are always inferior to objective morals — always. Any subjective laws or morals that come close to being fair and balanced are simply objective morals which have been watered down.

Totally agreed. What passes for current morality is a decaying relic of the past, an inheritance from our forefathers who, unlike most people today, vividly experienced the moral law as a creation of God, just as He created the natural law.

With God "gone" out of the contemporary picture, the opportunities for experiences of divine Truth become increasingly rare. We remember the words, but we no longer feel what lies behind them. Active reciprocal love is gone out of them. And so if the words constrain us overmuch, we simply ignore them. We become our own "moral center" — thus the increasing subjectivity of "morality" nowadays.

But human history tells us that societies only last and flourish where there is a shared moral consensus, that is, a commonly agreed-on objective morality that binds the entire community together.

Now as an objective morality, I recognize that what the authors of the DoI wrote was the culmination of the classical/Christian historical moral development over two millennia of human experience. It stresses life, liberty, individual responsibility and accountability, self-reliance, and the sacred dignity of the individual human person.

However, the "Modernist project" does not seem to value such things. In our age of "group think," all such are under relentless attack.... The human individual continues to shrink away into virtual nothingness, while the putative "plight" of groups is shouted from the rooftops.

But notice this: There is nothing in the federal Constitution that takes any cognizance of "groups." Justice is always premised on the individual....

In this, the Framers were very prescient, wise men: For the group, not the individual, is the natural unit for party organizational purposes; and the Framers found the idea of "political parties" and "party politics" extremely distasteful, as fomenting passions rather than encouraging deliberation according to reason.

The present moral/cultural meltdown cannot continue much longer without devastating effects (IMHO FWIW). Truth cannot be denied and will always assert itself in the long run — Even if there are human beings who think God and His Truth are non-existent; or find God's Truth "wrong" or inconvenient. In whichever case, the "old morality" needs to be "improved upon" by human efforts to make it other and "better" than it is.

Perhaps it will take a truly horrific catastrophe before human beings wake up to such facts. And I do call them "facts!"

Thank you so much for your excellent essay/post, dear brother in Christ!

85 posted on 12/02/2009 12:09:41 PM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: betty boop

[[self-reliance, and the sacred dignity of the individual human person.]]

Yup- that’s what’s sorely missing htese days- our government feels they are to be relied on, and are imposing subjective ‘morality’ to ensure we becoem dependent upon our government instead of ourselves, which is a real shame because it does away with a sense of accomplishment which is a major dirving source which compels us be the best we can be. Instead, what we have today, are peopel liek the woman who was interviewed and aksed why she voted for Obam, and she replied something like ‘Cuz now we are gonna get us some ‘Obama money’, and when asked where the ‘Obama money’ was suppsoed to come from, she had no answer, just that she felt she was entitled to profit from wealth redistribution, and that was good enough for her. ‘Obama money’ indeed!

[[The present moral/cultural meltdown cannot continue much longer without devastating effects (IMHO FWIW).]]

Agreed- the wealth redistribution has been proposed for a very long time now, since Lincoln’s days infact, when it was tried, but failed. Democrats have tried ever since to manipulate the country to becoem welfare dependents, and as such, We’ve seen a steady and constant degredation of our country to hte point where I beleive that God has removed His blessings from this country, and we’re seeign hte results, and it aint pretty, yet the far left still feels that their subjective ‘morality’ is superior to God’s and won’t go down without a fierce fight.

[[Even if there are human beings who think God and His Truth are non-existent; or find God’s Truth “wrong” or inconvenient.]]

They know i ntheir hearts that His morality isn’t wrong, but you nailed it by stating they feel it’s inconvenient, and impedes o ntheir lust for sin, power and corruption

[[In whichever case, the “old morality” needs to be “improved upon” by human efforts to make it other and “better” than it is.]]

Yup- and we’ve seen the disasterous results of subjective morality ‘improving’ on objective universal morality- it has NEVER worked, and never will- but again, the far left socialists are bound and determined to do away with anythign which sears their conscience

[[Perhaps it will take a truly horrific catastrophe before human beings wake up to such facts. And I do call them “facts!” ]]

Oh I hope not- We’re already sufferign from God turnign His face from this nation- We were ocne them ost repescted nation on earth (Note- I’m not saying we were liked- this is a much different issue than being respected), and it’s clear that Obama values being liked more than he values being respected, and his policies are goign to just turn God’s face fro mthis nation even further- Where God effectively hands the socialists over to their own evil desires. Nations used to look to us for help and guidance precisely because we would NOT compromise on moral values (for htem ost part- yes, there have always been corrupt politicians, but we’ve had great presidents who have udnerstood that this coutnry NEEDS God’s blessings in order to remain great) but unfortunately, our current president just doesn’t get it, or just doesn’t care (I thin kthe latter), and a great many socialists in power are too consumed by the lure of power $$ and shallow ‘pats on the back’ by those who are out to destroy us


86 posted on 12/02/2009 1:20:14 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop
We’re already suffering from God turning His face from this nation....

It certainly seems that way, CottShop. Then again, why shouldn't He turn His face away from the hard of heart, those who have chosen to close off their souls to Him?

Pray, dear brother in Christ, pray — and keep on praying!

Thank you for your beautiful essay/post!

87 posted on 12/02/2009 6:40:54 PM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: betty boop

[[Then again, why shouldn’t He turn His face away from the hard of heart, those who have chosen to close off their souls to Him?]]

He should- most definately however, I just hope, liek Israel, that there is a faithful remnant which God will save through the destruction if our country doesn’t change it’s ways

[[Pray, dear brother in Christ, pray — and keep on praying!]]

I do- and I’m prayign that this global warmign scam gets blown wide open so that it never again is foisted on the innocent by the corrupt who have been elected to protect us


88 posted on 12/02/2009 8:03:17 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: betty boop

Much agree. Thx.

BTW, what is your perspective on Creme’s ?latest? stuff about the return of the “Star of Bethlehem” as 4 UFO’s etc. etc. etc. ??


89 posted on 12/02/2009 9:01:15 PM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: CottShop

I thoroughly agree.


90 posted on 12/02/2009 9:01:58 PM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix
Much agree. Thx. BTW, what is your perspective on Creme’s ?latest? stuff about the return of the “Star of Bethlehem” as 4 UFO’s etc. etc. etc. ??
Objective, measureable; no.

Subjective, interpretive; Yes

91 posted on 12/02/2009 9:18:15 PM PST by _Jim (Conspiracy theories are the tools of the weak-minded.)
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To: _Jim

Don’t think I quite understand your point.


92 posted on 12/02/2009 9:30:49 PM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix
Don’t think I quite understand your point.
On a thread titled: "Global Warming Fraud and the Future of Science" I didn't understand yours either ...

I don't think we breathe the same air on this planet.

93 posted on 12/02/2009 9:53:44 PM PST by _Jim (Conspiracy theories are the tools of the weak-minded.)
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To: betty boop
With God "gone" out of the contemporary picture, the opportunities for experiences of divine Truth become increasingly rare. We remember the words, but we no longer feel what lies behind them. Active reciprocal love is gone out of them. And so if the words constrain us overmuch, we simply ignore them. We become our own "moral center" — thus the increasing subjectivity of "morality" nowadays.

So very true. Thank you for your wonderful essay-post, dearest sister in Christ!

94 posted on 12/02/2009 9:56:17 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: _Jim

It was an aside to an expert on the topic . . . an expert I happend to already be communicating with.

Asides happen on threads all the time on FR.


95 posted on 12/02/2009 10:23:38 PM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: betty boop

VERY VERY VERY EXCELLENT POINTS. THANKS:

#############

BETTY BOOP:

With God “gone” out of the contemporary picture, the opportunities for experiences of divine Truth become increasingly rare. We remember the words, but we no longer feel what lies behind them. Active reciprocal love is gone out of them. And so if the words constrain us overmuch, we simply ignore them. We become our own “moral center” — thus the increasing subjectivity of “morality” nowadays.

But human history tells us that societies only last and flourish where there is a shared moral consensus, that is, a commonly agreed-on objective morality that binds the entire community together.

Now as an objective morality, I recognize that what the authors of the DoI wrote was the culmination of the classical/Christian historical moral development over two millennia of human experience. It stresses life, liberty, individual responsibility and accountability, self-reliance, and the sacred dignity of the individual human person.

However, the “Modernist project” does not seem to value such things. In our age of “group think,” all such are under relentless attack.... The human individual continues to shrink away into virtual nothingness, while the putative “plight” of groups is shouted from the rooftops.

But notice this: There is nothing in the federal Constitution that takes any cognizance of “groups.” Justice is always premised on the individual....

In this, the Framers were very prescient, wise men: For the group, not the individual, is the natural unit for party organizational purposes; and the Framers found the idea of “political parties” and “party politics” extremely distasteful, as fomenting passions rather than encouraging deliberation according to reason.

The present moral/cultural meltdown cannot continue much longer without devastating effects (IMHO FWIW). Truth cannot be denied and will always assert itself in the long run — Even if there are human beings who think God and His Truth are non-existent; or find God’s Truth “wrong” or inconvenient. In whichever case, the “old morality” needs to be “improved upon” by human efforts to make it other and “better” than it is.


96 posted on 12/03/2009 4:20:50 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix; Alamo-Girl
Thank you, dear brother in Christ, for your kind words of support!

p.s.: For the Framers, "party politics" = "the spirit of faction." That sort of thing is the business of you-know-who....

97 posted on 12/04/2009 9:14:07 AM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: betty boop

p.s.: For the Framers, “party politics” = “the spirit of faction.” That sort of thing is the business of you-know-who....

############

INDEED.

THX.


98 posted on 12/04/2009 10:50:12 AM PST by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix; Alamo-Girl; spirited irish
BTW, what is your perspective on Creme’s ?latest? stuff about the return of the “Star of Bethlehem” as 4 UFO’s etc. etc. etc. ??

Jeepers, Quix, I hadn't heard about this. I'm kind of surprised Ben Creme is still a going concern.... In any case, I haven't been "following" his activities in years.

But from past experience I know that he does love to appropriate and twist Christian symbols for his own purposes. In this way he makes his message more appealing and accessible (because it uses language already familiar to most of his accolytes — he is, after all, "converting" people mainly from Western countries) while at the same time transforming the symbols themselves in ways utterly subversive of their original meanings.

The prime example is his treatment of Jesus. Creme's Jesus is not the Son of God; he is a miserable third-degree initiate of the school of the Masters of the Hierarchy. The Crucifixion was not the redemptive sacrifice of God the Son on behalf of sinful humanity, but Jesus' Fourth Initiation Rite. It utterly killed him; he did not rise from the dead. Notwithstanding, He somehow has another three initiations to go before he can really be taken seriously; and this dead Jesus will, according to Creme, be taking them in due course. How a thoroughly dead Jesus will do this is never explained. Meanwhile, the Ancient of Days, Sunat Kamara, not God the Father, is the guy in charge of our "planetary system"....

And LOL!!! that he's blended in the "UFO element" — this sort of thing is irresistible to the credulous....

There is nothing rational going on in Creme's articulations/performances....

JMHO FWIW

99 posted on 12/04/2009 11:21:00 AM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: Alamo-Girl; Quix; xzins; marron; joanie-f; spirited irish; Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Thank you so much, dearest sister in Christ, for your kind words!

That term "active reciprocal love" came at me out of the blue while I was writing. Thinking about it since, I realize that the One Great Commandment models this perfectly: "Love God with all your heart and mind and soul and strength." And then models it again in the Commandment's great corollary, "Love thy neighbor as thyself."

Love God, love neighbor: This is the Christian moral law, pure and simple, the Truth on which hangs all the law and the prophets....

Notice God is not "nagging us" about anything in His Great Commandment, merely showing us the Way of Truth. We are free to walk that way, or not.

We were made in love, for life and liberty.

And we are subject to divine Judgment for the free choices we make. [Jeepers, even the pagans, the ancient Greeks and their forebears knew that!!! Christianity completely validates this insight.]

Or at least, that is my understanding and belief.

Lately I've been thinking about the ways these concepts are embodied in the Declaration of Independence, and then again in the Preamble of the Constitution of the United States.

It seems so strange to me that here, at FR, there is a coterie that seems devoted to proving that the DoI doesn't in any way depend on Christian ideas. That the very idea of America having a Christian foundation is nonsense. They tend to cite as evidence the historical fact that some of the Framers were Deists and/or Freemasons.

Yet to me, the Constitution is an amazing, radical, totally unprecedented and exceptional political design seemingly "made-to-order" for the sort of creature that God made:

We hold these truths to be self-evident [i.e., beyond question or doubt]: that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed....

It seems to me it takes a whole lot of love of God and neighbor to make a system of self-government work. It must start with the order of the self, but it certainly doesn't end there. A very ancient insight: Societies can only be as good as the typical human "capital" that forms them in the moral sense....

Which may be why, when Ben Franklin was asked by the lovely lady what sort of government had been wrought in Philadelphia, he mildly replied:

"A republic, dear lady — if we can keep it."

These days, that looks like an increasingly big IF.... Ultimately, the question boils down to the issue of public morality/virtue.

Or so it seems to me, FWIW.

100 posted on 12/04/2009 12:59:36 PM PST by betty boop (Without God man neither knows which way to go, nor even understands who he is. —Pope Benedict XVI)
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