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Democrats in revolt over Barack Obama’s troop surge
London Times ^ | 11/29/2009 | Marie Colvin

Posted on 11/29/2009 7:29:04 AM PST by Saije

Barack Obama's much-vaunted eloquence faces the biggest test of his presidential career this week when he takes to the stage at West Point military academy to explain to a nation that thought it had elected an anti-war president why he is escalating the conflict in Afghanistan.

After almost three months of agonising, nine war councils and endless leaks, the president will finally make his views known on Tuesday when he is expected to announce that he is sending about 30,000 more troops. This will push up American forces to 100,000 and the total number of allied forces to almost 140,000, as many troops as the Soviet Union had in Afghanistan.

The carefully chosen backdrop cannot disguise Obama’s dilemma. Somehow he has to convince his own public that the United States has an exit strategy and will not become bogged down, as it did in Vietnam, while making clear to the Taliban and Pakistan that it has not lost its resolve and will stay as long as it takes.

Obama’s toughest challenge will be to win over his most loyal political supporters. He is facing a growing revolt in the Democratic party over why the US needs to be in Afghanistan at all when the real threat — Al-Qaeda — is in Pakistan, and over the spiralling cost in both lives and dollars.

“I think the operative question is why we’re there,” said Anna Eshoo, a Democratic congresswoman who sits on the House intelligence committee. “That’s what I’ll be wanting to hear from the president.”***

The annual bill for the extra troops is estimated at $30 billion (£18.2 billion), on top of the $10 billion-a-month the war is costing. “We’re still not out of Iraq and we’re getting deeper into Afghanistan, both of which are hugely expensive,” she said.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; democrats; obama; war
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I know this has been noted before so it's not an original thought but I always find it amusing when Democrats start talking about how expensive something is. Maybe they should be pushing to have military bases and weapons factories in their districts.
1 posted on 11/29/2009 7:29:05 AM PST by Saije
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To: Saije
He is facing a growing revolt in the Democratic party over why the US needs to be in Afghanistan at all when the real threat — Al-Qaeda — is in Pakistan, and over the spiralling cost in both lives and dollars.

Democrats are such pathetic liars. When Iraq was hot, they would say the real problem was in Afghanistan, which was where our resources should be going. If we WERE to go to Pakistan, they'd belly-ache about that too.

What they really want is for use to disband the military, roll over on our backs, and acquiesce to the enemy.

2 posted on 11/29/2009 7:35:02 AM PST by fwdude (It is not the liberals who will destroy this country, but the "moderates.")
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To: Saije

During the coming annunication from the mount at West Point, note that bama will continue to whine that this regrettable decision is all Bush’s fault because Bush and Cheney screwed up “the past 8 years” ..... even though bamster has now been in office almost a year himself.

Note that he will claim or hint that the reason the war (will he call it that) hasn’t been won yet is because bamster was not in charge ... even though he is now almost 25% through his term

Pour a beer and take a drink every time he mentions or hints at “mistakes of the past 8 years” (ironically one year of which has been HIS, as of January)


3 posted on 11/29/2009 7:36:08 AM PST by silverleaf (Ours is the only country on earth with a ventriloquist dummy for President)
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To: silverleaf

Barry defiles the ground at West Point. May his words turn to ashes in his mouth.


4 posted on 11/29/2009 7:37:55 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (Impeachment !)
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To: Saije

Another photo op for the POS.


5 posted on 11/29/2009 7:40:28 AM PST by Piquaboy (Military veteran of 22 years in Navy, Air Force, and Army.)
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To: silverleaf
Pour a beer and take a drink every time he mentions or hints at “mistakes of the past 8 years

If you did that you'd be on a rocket sled to the detox center.

6 posted on 11/29/2009 7:42:12 AM PST by YankeeReb
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To: Saije
We’re still not out of Iraq and we’re getting deeper into Afghanistan, both of which are hugely expensive,”

The hypocrisy of these people never ceases to amaze me.

7 posted on 11/29/2009 7:42:44 AM PST by LiberConservative (0bama was elected to lead, not to bow.)
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To: fwdude
What they really want is for us to disband the military, roll over on our backs, roll on our belly's, drop our drawers, stick our arse's in the air, and acquiesce to the enemy.

There, I fixed it.

8 posted on 11/29/2009 7:45:30 AM PST by fedupjohn (If we try to fight the war on terror with eyes shut + ears packed with wax, innocent people will die)
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To: Saije

Yes, Democrats ARE revolting.


9 posted on 11/29/2009 7:46:55 AM PST by digger48
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To: Saije

He’s making LBJ look like Patton.

Pray for America and Our Troops


10 posted on 11/29/2009 7:48:57 AM PST by bray (Palin can see the White House from her Porch)
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To: Saije
"Good Americans, things are not going right for your great country. The war in Iraq had taken a great toll on you and the Afghan war will likely press on you further. Are all these adventures justifiable?

You and I know that the more the war drags on, the more casualties there will be. How many more body bags must you see before you say enough is enough.

Your President is willing to send a further 30000 men into the fight. Is it enough for you to stay on? You will need more than this to be victorious. This is subjective for no victory is permanent. When you finally leave, the mice will again come out to play and will you return to fight again? You see Afghanistan is someone's else country and it is impossible for the USA or any other country to "defend" it against its own people.

Your war on terror should have ended long time ago. Your tax payer's money cannot go on forever to finance a war that cannot be won. Your gallant soldiers are all tired and weary. You can fight to bring them home. Yes, you can."

This is one of the reader responses to the article, and is an almost perfect example of how the left saps our morale and destroys our will to fight. So persuasive. So insinuating. So reasonable. Just give up and go home. It's not our fight. It's their country. We can't win anyway. It's almost hypnotic.

It's Tokyo Rose all over again.

11 posted on 11/29/2009 7:49:04 AM PST by Batrachian
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To: Saije

Actually, I’ll believe the “surge” when I see it. What Barry has probably worked out is some way to have the world’s slowest surge, so that the enemy will have plenty of time to dig in and even whittle down our existing forces on the ground. It’s all going to be slieght of hand, probably as many will be taken out as will be sent in.

He has already said he has no intention of doing that distasteful thing called “winning,” so what is the point? He’s doing the charade only because the American people are getting dangerously restless, and his fellow Dems know this and are providing a little bit of theater of their own.


12 posted on 11/29/2009 7:50:57 AM PST by livius
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To: Saije
Why is the US (and NATO) still in Afghanistan?

9-11

.... in case the leftists have forgotten ....


13 posted on 11/29/2009 7:52:07 AM PST by canuck_conservative
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To: fwdude
Spot on, and succintly put.

Kudos.

14 posted on 11/29/2009 7:52:39 AM PST by thoolou ("I may have invented it, but Bill made it famous." - David Bradley, inventor of Ctrl-Alt-Del)
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To: Saije

The only MSM truth we can read is from English or Canadian newspapers-—SAD SAD SAD


15 posted on 11/29/2009 7:52:58 AM PST by Uncle George
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To: Saije

Anyone bothered to ask the Barry joke of an administration how long it will take to get those additional troops over to Afghanistan? That is the real joke once it is revealed.


16 posted on 11/29/2009 7:54:37 AM PST by cranked
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To: livius
What Barry has probably worked out is some way to have the world’s slowest surge

Unfortunately, that sounds about right.

17 posted on 11/29/2009 7:55:55 AM PST by Yardstick
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To: Piquaboy
If I were those in attendance,i'd give him a photo op,all right....i'd stand and turn my back on him the whole time he was speaking.
Any time he attends a military photo op event,the soldiers should ALL stand and turn their back on him.
I get the whole respect for the CIC thing and all,and I know that our guys and girls don't have it in them to do such a thing,but this is a regime,not an administration,and any CIC that leaves soldiers twisting in the wind while he has cocktail parties and WH dinners does NOT deserve the time of day.
He's not a CIC.
He's not a leader. He could care less.
He HATES America and all she stands for.
He'd get spit on by me,but then again,that's just me.
18 posted on 11/29/2009 7:57:14 AM PST by gimme1ibertee ("In a time of universal deceit,telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act"-G. Orwell)
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To: Saije
Does the article point out that some Dems admit that they intentionally and knowingly LIED during the presidential campaign about Afghanistan being a "just" war and that we should send all our troops from Iraq to Kabul, ASAP?
19 posted on 11/29/2009 7:58:04 AM PST by hennie pennie
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To: fwdude
What they really want is to use that defense money to buy votes with here at home. National security? Hell, let the republicans worry about that.
20 posted on 11/29/2009 7:59:10 AM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

“Barry defiles the ground at West Point....”

....you ain’t kidding!...this effete little sissy shouldn’t be allowed to breath the same air as those cadets.


21 posted on 11/29/2009 8:03:12 AM PST by STONEWALLS
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To: canuck_conservative
Image Hosting by imagefra.me

Image Hosting by imagefra.me

WHY?

22 posted on 11/29/2009 8:06:24 AM PST by pke
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To: Saije

Now he’s having to use forced audiences.


23 posted on 11/29/2009 8:10:00 AM PST by A Strict Constructionist (How long before we are forced to refresh the Tree of Liberty? Sic semper tryannis)
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To: Batrachian

It is not at all self-evident that an open-ended commitment to war in Afghanistan is the only possible conservative position.

War is politics carried on by other means. So what exactly is our political goal in Afghanistan, and how will we know when it has been achieved?

We quite literally cannot invade, occupy and rule the entire Muslim world. We have the ability to kill all Muslims, but not to control them.

Sometimes it seems we are fighting in Afghanistan because we feel we should be fighting radical Islam somewhere, and Afghanistan is as good as anywhere. This does not seem a completely convincing reason to me.


24 posted on 11/29/2009 8:18:42 AM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Saije
This really jumped out at me:

Obama’s toughest challenge will be to win over his most loyal political supporters.

So, um... that would mean that they aren't loyal if one decision can turn them into opponents.
25 posted on 11/29/2009 8:25:32 AM PST by Renderofveils (My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music. - Nabokov)
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To: fwdude

The MSM are the stupid monkeys. Hear no evil of Obama, speak no evil of Obama, see no evil of Obama.


26 posted on 11/29/2009 8:26:11 AM PST by ODDITHER (HAT)
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To: Sherman Logan
It is not at all self-evident that an open-ended commitment to war in Afghanistan is the only possible conservative position.

War is politics carried on by other means. So what exactly is our political goal in Afghanistan, and how will we know when it has been achieved?

We quite literally cannot invade, occupy and rule the entire Muslim world. We have the ability to kill all Muslims, but not to control them.

Sometimes it seems we are fighting in Afghanistan because we feel we should be fighting radical Islam somewhere, and Afghanistan is as good as anywhere. This does not seem a completely convincing reason to me.

The solution is as simple as it was in ending the threat of Imperial Japan...

1. Demand unconditional surrender.

2. Mecca = Hiroshima...

3.Demand unconditional surrender.

4. Medina = Nagasaki...

5. Continue until there is peace...

27 posted on 11/29/2009 8:27:26 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???)
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To: Saije
when he is expected to announce that he is sending about 30,000 more troops.

The number keeps dropping. By the time it's officially announced, it might be down to half of what General Petreus asked for, many moons ago. I suspect if he were to ask today, he'd ask for even more, given the delay. Day late a division short, that's our boy Barry.

28 posted on 11/29/2009 8:30:15 AM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Saije

Even his own party realizes he’s just Wagging the Dog. He’s not going to loosen the leash w/the ROEs.

Pray for America and Our Troops


29 posted on 11/29/2009 8:33:20 AM PST by bray (Palin can see the White House from her Porch)
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To: Sherman Logan
"This does not seem a completely convincing reason to me."

I'll give you the real reason we're still there and must remain there until complete victory is achieved, no matter how long it takes or how much it costs.

We where attacked on September 11, 2001 by elements of Al Qaeda, a terrorist organization based in Afghanistan. They are still there (and in other places). The Taliban, who aided them, are still there (and in other places). Until such time as these enemies are completely and utterly defeated, we must stay and fight. This should be beyond politics and all other considerations are secondary.

The only "exit strategy" is complete victory, even if that means going through the mouth of hell. Maybe it's easy for me to say it, since I'm sitting in my easy chair and risking nothing, but I'm a veteran and have to right to say it.

Are you convinced yet?

30 posted on 11/29/2009 8:40:23 AM PST by Batrachian
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To: Saije

Over-statement, lack of insight, and wishful thinking on part of the Times. Sorry, there is no revolt among Dems; there are simply some murmurs, which will die down after he gives the speech.


31 posted on 11/29/2009 8:41:53 AM PST by nwrep
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To: pke

Thanks for posting the pic of the AA plane being loaded. I had it before but lost it. Do you have any background info on it?


32 posted on 11/29/2009 8:42:46 AM PST by nralife (Sarah doesn't know it's a damn show! She thinks it's a damn fight!)
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To: gimme1ibertee
What would be really appropriate would be for the host, in this case probably the Commandant of West Point, to deviate from the script, just a little.

Before I introduce Mr. Obama, I would like to announce that members of the Judge Advocate Corps of all the services have determined that Mr. Obama is not a natural born citizen, by virtue of his father not being a citizen. They have reported that this makes him not eligible to the Office of President, in light of Article II Section 1 clause 5 of the Constitution."

"With that, I introduce to you Mr. Obama".

33 posted on 11/29/2009 8:43:34 AM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Saije

I pray the loader of the teleprompter makes a typo and puts in “300,000” instead of “30,000”. Boy wouldn’t that make the peaceniks heads explode!


34 posted on 11/29/2009 8:45:02 AM PST by Terry Mross (I voted for McCain and STILL wasted my vote.)
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To: Saije
This lost me early. REAL early.

Barack Obama's much-vaunted eloquence...

vaunted –adjective
praised boastfully or excessively

OK, they got that right. Moving on...

eloquence –noun
the practice or art of using language with fluency and aptness.

THAT'S where I get stuck: trying to recall any incidents of Barack Obama's "eloquence".

35 posted on 11/29/2009 8:46:44 AM PST by AF_Blue ("Are you guys ready? Let's roll!" - Todd Beamer)
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To: Saije
“There is serious unrest in our caucus ... can we afford this war?” said Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker.

Wow! I know it's hard to believe, but Nancy finally found something we can't afford! Too bad she doesn't apply the same test of "affordability" to socialized medical care, socialized energy production, and all of the rest of the Obamunist socialization programs.

36 posted on 11/29/2009 8:50:58 AM PST by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Made from The Right Stuff)
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To: Saije
Anna Eshoo, a Democratic congresswoman who sits on the House intelligence committee

I'm sorry, I can't get past thinking of someone saying "Gesundheit" during the roll call...

37 posted on 11/29/2009 8:51:43 AM PST by mikrofon (House Intelligence??)
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To: Saije

That little thing known as reality is a real bitch for these types


38 posted on 11/29/2009 8:52:10 AM PST by A_Former_Democrat
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To: El Gato
I'd like to advise that a bit.

"With that, I introduce to give you Mr. Obama".

Sergeant Major!..."

:).

39 posted on 11/29/2009 8:52:58 AM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Batrachian
Al Quaeda is a true multi-national operation. It appears they are at present much more active in Pakistan than in Afghanistan, but of course we haven't (and won't) invade Pakistan.

It has a non-trivial military, complete with nukes. We really don't want to go there.

So we'll keep fighting in Afghanistan, with no end in sight.

The only "exit strategy" is complete victory

Excellent thought. How would you define "complete victory" in Aghanistan or against al Quaeda?

40 posted on 11/29/2009 8:56:58 AM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: fwdude
...What they really want is for use to disband the military...

Bloated, inefficient, Nationalized Health Care will so grossly strain the national budget, as to force a severe reduction of the military. Western Europe has a hollowed military; Britain's military is being hollowed; and the USA's military is being targeted.

41 posted on 11/29/2009 8:59:17 AM PST by ricks_place
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To: Saije
Somehow he has to convince his own public that the United States has an exit strategy

The only "exit strategy" we should be thinking about is called "victory"!

42 posted on 11/29/2009 9:08:44 AM PST by Gritty (The world divides between those who seek to support or destroy American values- Con Coughlin)
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To: Batrachian

I’ll give you the real reason we’re still there and must remain there until complete victory is achieved, no matter how long it takes or how much it costs.

We where attacked on September 11, 2001 by elements of Al Qaeda, a terrorist organization based in Afghanistan. They are still there (and in other places). The Taliban, who aided them, are still there (and in other places). Until such time as these enemies are completely and utterly defeated, we must stay and fight. This should be beyond politics and all other considerations are secondary.

The only “exit strategy” is complete victory, even if that means going through the mouth of hell. Maybe it’s easy for me to say it, since I’m sitting in my easy chair and risking nothing, but I’m a veteran and have to right to say it.

Are you convinced yet?


and when will the final victory happen 2050 ?
btw. i guess 99,9% of the people our soldiers keep killing day by day have NOTHING to do with al Qaeda. if we want to fight terrorist we could invade Somalia for example too. they just will move to other places as they did in Afghanistan. Now the troops have to die because “we” are protecting corrupt radical islamist from corrupt ultra radical Islamists. if you think we can win this then please let me know how. btw. NO one other than the “home team” has ever won anything in afghanistan in history.


43 posted on 11/29/2009 9:13:15 AM PST by darkside321
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To: digger48

It should be fun to watch the democrats fight with Obama, but it’s not because the lives of our troops are in jeopardy as a result of Obama and his absurd Rules of Engagement.

You’re right....these libs ARE revolting.


44 posted on 11/29/2009 9:16:21 AM PST by july4thfreedomfoundation (A Jimmy Carter got us a Ronald Reagan.....a Barack Obama will get us a Sarah Palin)
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To: Sherman Logan
"Excellent thought. How would you define "complete victory" in Aghanistan or against al Quaeda?"

First of all, let's start thinking of ways to win, instead of constantly thinking of how we can't win, or how it's a no win situation. We have to reorient our thinking away from defeatism.

As for how to define complete victory, I'll do that for you now. I define it as when Al Qaeda and the Taliban have been completely destroyed and have no members left alive or free. They no longer exist as viable organizations. They can never resurface and this threat is eliminated forever.

Cutting and running is certainly no strategy for victory. Let's always keep that word in our minds: Victory. Breath it in great big deep breaths. Savor it. Make it your watchword.

45 posted on 11/29/2009 9:19:28 AM PST by Batrachian
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To: Renderofveils
Obama’s toughest challenge will be to win over his most loyal political supporters.

His entire decision (or non-decision) on Afghanistan is politically motivated. He's going to put on a show at West Point and blame the former Commander in Chief's failure to capture Bin Laden as justification for committing more troops. He is the ulitmate coward.

46 posted on 11/29/2009 9:19:37 AM PST by jersey117
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To: Yardstick

It will not be termed a surge, but rather a seep.


47 posted on 11/29/2009 9:21:11 AM PST by dtrpscout (A bad dog is better than most good people.)
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To: darkside321
These are good left wing talking points. Are you sure you're on the right forum? The left loves talking about all the civilians we're killing and how we can't win. They positively gloat about it.

Besides, what if it is 2050? What's the hurry? Should we have imposed an artificial deadline on the cold war as well?

Stop this defeatist talk or go away.

48 posted on 11/29/2009 9:27:12 AM PST by Batrachian
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To: canuck_conservative

9/11?...didnt you get the memo?

We’re suppossed to be over 9/11....all the enlightend Liberals have been saying so for years....

Hell...they dont even consider it an act of terrosism anymore...just another man caused disaster...


49 posted on 11/29/2009 9:31:50 AM PST by Crim
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To: Batrachian

have i said that the 99,9% are civillians??? i said they have nothing to do with al quaeda which is a fact. btw. you will not tell me how i should write my posts.


50 posted on 11/29/2009 9:34:08 AM PST by darkside321
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