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Bishops holding health-care bill hostage (Bishop Thomas Tobin speaks Truth to power)
Chicago Sun-Times ^ | November 29, 2009 | CAROL MARIN

Posted on 11/29/2009 12:58:46 PM PST by Chi-townChief

"Let the healthcare bill allow for one sterilization for everyone of these whacked out females who are so intent on killing babies . . . Then . . . if these Femme-a-Nazis want to have a child, they can rent one."

Reader comment posted on my Nov. 25 column

Incendiary e-mails are still rolling in on Wednesday's column.

It proves you can't write about abortion, women and Catholic bishops and not get heavy heat. Add universal health care to the conversation?

Kaboom!

It's OK.

I've had great role models in taking heat.

Jack Egan, for one.

In the winter of 2000, six months before he died, Monsignor John J. Egan, at 84, was battling failing health and rebelling against the confinement that came with it.

And so after yet another hospitalization, we still met as usual downtown for lunch.

It was classic Jack Egan. He talked about social justice, immigration and the tyranny of payday loans. Heavy topics leavened with many lighter moments and a lot of laughs.

Normally after lunch, Jack would walk back home to the rectory at Holy Name Cathedral.

Walking now was out of the question, so we were about to hail a cab when a well-known, very conservative politician approached.

"Monsignor Egan," said the politico. "I'm running for election and if I win, I'll be the first Catholic in that office."

I watched Jack's jaw harden.

"And I'm against abortion," said the politico enthusiastically, adding, "Aren't you?"

"Of course I'm against a abortion," Jack said with fury.

I was afraid he was going to blow a gasket, and so I frantically waved down the next cab and began to help him inside. Not, however, before the politico called out, "I'll pray for you, Monsignor!"

Jack shot back, "Pray for yourself, buddy."

Jack Egan did not believe in abortion.

But he was just as opposed to abortion becoming the church's moral obsession to the exclusion of other life-and-death issues. And he deplored politicians who cynically played the abortion card in order to get elected.

Though some labeled him left-wing, Egan was a moderate in the best sense. He loved his church, loved its teachings and stayed within its fold. But he was never afraid to speak truth to power when he felt church leaders had lost their way. Or their sense of proportionality.

Were he alive today, he would have been appalled to learn that Bishop Thomas Tobin had admonished U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D-Rhode Island) not to receive communion unless he got in line with church orthodoxy on abortion.

And he would have been horrified by Tobin's interview last week with MSNBC's Chris Matthews, himself a devout Catholic.

Matthews relentlessly pushed the bishop on the matter of separation of church and state. And on the church's outright lobbying of Congress to further restrict access to abortion in exchange for the passage of a health-care reform bill.

If all abortion is murder, asked Matthews, exactly what penalties would Tobin legislate for women and girls who have one?

Tobin wouldn't say. But it was impossible not to notice that he also couldn't muster a single word of compassion for the plight of a woman or girl in that situation. Or for the difficulty of their choice.

Jack Egan would have talked about compassion first.

For almost a century, the church he gave his life to has been a proud leader in the fight for decent, affordable health care.

But when bishops now hold passage of a sweeping, national health-care bill hostage to their own religious orthodoxy, they deserve all the heat we can give them.

mailto:cmarin@suntimes.com


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; US: Rhode Island
KEYWORDS: 111th; bhoabortion; bhohealthcare; catholic; catholics; egan; healthcare; kenndey; kennedy; obama; obamacare
You have to wonder how long it's going to take this bigot Carol Marin to realize that she's on the wrong side of this one. Bishop Tobin has shown extraordinary courage in taking on the most powerful family in American politics and he should be wholeheartedly supported by ALL of us, Ms. Marin included.
1 posted on 11/29/2009 12:58:50 PM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Salvation; NYer

PING


2 posted on 11/29/2009 1:00:33 PM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief

let press make abortion ground zero of this bill — it’s not. the Bishops who know their Catechism object to it more fundamental grounds.


3 posted on 11/29/2009 1:01:39 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (whitey's over it.)
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To: the invisib1e hand

permission granted to add conjunctions where necessary.


4 posted on 11/29/2009 1:02:48 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (whitey's over it.)
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To: Chi-townChief

Carol “Killing babies is the right thing to do!” Marin.

Killed any babies recently, Carol? In any case, when you write like this, you are complicit in the deaths of many millions of them. Hope that makes you feel good.


5 posted on 11/29/2009 1:06:23 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Chi-townChief
FR ought to have a rating system for articles. That way I could give this person a thumbs down for idiocy.
6 posted on 11/29/2009 1:08:06 PM PST by Radix (Obama represents CHAINS for posterity.)
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To: Chi-townChief

The liberal apologist Marin exposes herself when she claims that Chris Matthews is a “devout Catholic.” That’s rich!


7 posted on 11/29/2009 1:19:39 PM PST by Charlemagne on the Fox
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To: All
...Were he alive today (Jack Egan), he would have been appalled to learn that Bishop Thomas Tobin had admonished U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D-Rhode Island) not to receive communion unless he got in line with church orthodoxy on abortion. And he would have been horrified by Tobin's interview last week with MSNBC's Chris Matthews, himself a devout Catholic....

Well, in that case I AM GLAD HE IS DEATH. NEXT!...

8 posted on 11/29/2009 1:24:13 PM PST by ElPatriota (The SILENCE of the Catholic Church on the war (...Actually I'm hearing MORE....) ** DEAFENING **)
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To: ElPatriota

DEATH=DEAD Geezzz :)


9 posted on 11/29/2009 1:25:46 PM PST by ElPatriota (The SILENCE of the Catholic Church on the war (...Actually I'm hearing MORE....) ** DEAFENING **)
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To: ElPatriota

DEATH=DEAD Geezzz :)


10 posted on 11/29/2009 1:25:59 PM PST by ElPatriota (The SILENCE of the Catholic Church on the war (...Actually I'm hearing MORE....) ** DEAFENING **)
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To: ElPatriota

Egan was quite the liberal but Marin is still misrepresenting his position on abortion which was very much “in line with church orthodoxy.”


11 posted on 11/29/2009 1:28:23 PM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief

Bishops in the USA are often flaky and unreliable, but here’s hoping that these will hold firm. I am bugged by the rhetoric “necessary health reform” being bandied about by the bishops as though the Rat package came close to that.


12 posted on 11/29/2009 1:32:40 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America.)
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To: Charlemagne on the Fox

Exactly. Two weeks ago, an on-line ‘Catholic’ weekly had an article about Michael Moore’s appearance on Shawn Hannity’s program as an ‘enlightening and informative discussion between ‘two attractive and highly intelligent and well-spoken devoted Catholic family men’ - at: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-in-the-news/michael-moore-catholic-year - there is a column promoting MM as ‘Catholic of the Year’ - and praising his movie ‘Capitalism’ - one respondent said it brought back to Catholicism - if that is what it means to be a Catholic in America - I agree with John Derbyshire that Conservatism in general and Catholicism as a religion are both doomed. The Catholic Church’s fascination with ‘social justice’ can only be explained by their neglect and exploitation of their own clergy and nuns - for whom they constantly shill for extra donations because they don’t have insurance and retirement funds. It appears that they are looking to Obamacare to bail them out. John Neumann must be rolling in his grave.


13 posted on 11/29/2009 1:40:28 PM PST by NHResident
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To: Chi-townChief

Mother Theresa on abortion:
“But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child - a direct killing of the innocent child - murder by the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another?
On Roe vs Wade she said:
America needs no words from me to see how your decision in Roe v. Wade has deformed a great nation. The so-called right to abortion has pitted mothers against their children and women against men. It has sown violence and discord at the heart of the most intimate human relationships. It has aggravated the derogation of the father’s role in an increasingly fatherless society. It has portrayed the greatest of gifts — a child — as a competitor, an intrusion, and an inconvenience. It has nominally accorded mothers unfettered dominion over the independent lives of their physically dependent sons and daughters”
And, in granting this unconscionable power, it has exposed many women to unjust and selfish demands from their husbands or other sexual partners. Human rights are not a privilege conferred by government. They are every human being’s entitlement by virtue of his humanity. The right to life does not depend, and must not be declared to be contingent, on the pleasure of anyone else, not even a parent or a sovereign.”
I’ll stand with Mother Theresa over Jack Egan any day.


14 posted on 11/29/2009 1:41:28 PM PST by Josephat
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To: Chi-townChief; Charlemagne on the Fox
The liberal apologist Marin exposes herself when she claims that Chris Matthews is a “devout Catholic.” That’s rich!

The trouble is that "religious truth" has become de-factualized (is that a word?) and turned into a subjective ethno-cultural or private "identity." The very notion that the existence of G-d and the reality of His Laws is factual rather than speculative has been totally lost. Thus people retreat into their "very private" thoughts to defend their immoral positions or else declare that this or that religion is their "birthright" because of ethnicity and no one may discipline them.

One reason for this is the demonization of "fundamentalism" by "non-fundamentalist" orthodox religion in order to feel superior to "those awful people" or to win brownie points from the secularists. Fundamentalists know that "religious truth" is factual truth just like all other factual truth. Liberal religion has made "religious truth" subjective and speculative. And non-fundamentalist orthodox religion has spent decades demonizing fundamentalists so the liberals will like them.

Well . . . has it been worth it?

15 posted on 11/29/2009 1:43:04 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Lo' Ya`aqov ye'amer `od shimkha ki-'im Yisra'el; ki sariyta `im-'Eloqim ve`im-'anashim vatukhal.)
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To: Chi-townChief

While I agree with Bishop Tobin’s stance on abortion, he has definitetly NOT shown courage “ in taking on the most powerful family in American politics”.

He waited until Ted Kennedy died to make a lot of noise about Catholic politicians and their stance on abortion. That does not show courage, and it is not inspiring others to courage either. Quite the opposite, it sets a very bad example ... it shows that Church heirarchy cow tow to powerful politicians.

As ever.


16 posted on 11/29/2009 2:00:47 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: Josephat

She got it right.
And she had more courage in her little finger than all the Cardinals, Bishops and Pope combined.


17 posted on 11/29/2009 2:03:14 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: Chi-townChief

And extraordinary restraint (Tobin).


18 posted on 11/29/2009 2:08:11 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Lorianne
He waited until Ted Kennedy died to make a lot of noise about Catholic politicians and their stance on abortion

Not exaactly true. He took on Patrick Kennedy (RI) 2 years ago. It was Patches who decided to make the subjct matter of their conversations public. As far as the other Kennedys are concerned, Bp Tobin only has the faith and morals of those living in RI under his jurisdiction. You need to point your finger at the Bps of Massachusetts and elsewhere to get the rest of the family.

19 posted on 11/29/2009 2:14:06 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Chi-townChief; netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; ...
And he would have been horrified by Tobin's interview last week with MSNBC's Chris Matthews, himself a devout Catholic.

Wonder if he would have been impressed with Bishop Tobin's interview on Bill O'Reilly's program Link.

Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


20 posted on 11/29/2009 2:14:29 PM PST by NYer ("One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone" - Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer
Well, since you pinged me...

Memo to the Archbishop of New York

posted on his blog, typos corrected].

There is no need for a government in a highly developed free market society to appoint itself as "provider of healthcare coverage." None, whatsoever. The proposition would be identical to the government taking control of the restaurant and grocery businesses because there are some people who, regrettably, cannot afford to eat. To do so would undermine the market mechanism of distribution, which is quite an effective mechanism. I believe the discussion of "subsidiarity" speaks to this.

Furthermore, New York City once was a shining example of what Catholicism, when practiced, can do to generously overcome any "shortcomings" -- temporary or otherwise -- in the market mechanism...


21 posted on 11/29/2009 2:19:10 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (whitey's over it.)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

There becomes a point when your called upon to “Testify” that is profess your beliefs and stand with those to defend them.
This has become that time,
The change begins by doing this
http://www.theusmat.com/


22 posted on 11/29/2009 2:40:37 PM PST by mosesdapoet (The indiscriminate use of videos unrelated to the subject are screwing up downloads)
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To: Lorianne

No - it was Pat Kennedy who waited until Ted died before making the noise.


23 posted on 11/29/2009 2:56:36 PM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief

Sounds like an excerpt from “The Audacity of Dope”.

Seriously, this might be one of the dumbest articles I’ve ever read by anyone (much less Carol Marin) and emblematic of the lunacy that grips the left. Utterly detached from basic human decency. She chooses to excoriate Bishop Tobin for not shedding tears for baby-killers, while proclaiming Matthews a “devout” Catholic.

There are certain articles that really make me fee like I just can’t take any more of this. Being exposed to these morons on a daily basis can literally suck the life out of you. I can’t believe she used to be one of my favorite news anchors...


24 posted on 11/29/2009 2:59:06 PM PST by Rutles4Ever (Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia, et ubi ecclesia vita eterna!)
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To: Lorianne

Patrick made this public not Tobin.


25 posted on 11/29/2009 3:10:32 PM PST by pbear8 (Climate change is a fraud like Obama)
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To: Chi-townChief; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

26 posted on 11/29/2009 3:15:29 PM PST by narses ('in an odd way this is cheering news!'.)
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To: Chi-townChief; pbear8

Ted Kennedy was plenty public about his views on abortion.


27 posted on 11/29/2009 3:17:30 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: Chi-townChief
he deplored politicians who cynically played the abortion card in order to get elected.

Huh? Where are these politicians? Even the ones who vote against abortion seem to try to avoid saying they're against it!

28 posted on 11/29/2009 3:24:59 PM PST by maryz
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Chris Matthews, himself a devout Catholic.

Bearing false witness is a mortal sin, Carol.

Can. 915 Those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared, and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin, are not to be admitted to holy communion.

29 posted on 11/29/2009 4:16:01 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: Josephat
Mother Theresa(sic) on abortion:

No "h" in Teresa.

30 posted on 11/29/2009 4:21:48 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: Lorianne

I’m no fan of Tobin but you are quite mistaken.


31 posted on 11/29/2009 4:23:53 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: Chi-townChief

Time for a strategy session. We all know that the Catholic Church and its bishops strongly oppose abortion, but a substantial number of them are soft on social justice issues. The bishops would likely flip support if a Stupak type abortion exclusion amendment was passed in the Senate. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that 20 or more Dims could vote with the Republicans for an anti-abortion amendment. This cannot happen. If your Senator is a Dim, tell him not to support the anti-abortion amendment. If your Senator is a Republican, tell him not to vote or vote present.
The bishops are fair weather friends. Like Italy at the beginning of WW1, they would change sides on a dime and care nothing about the egregious breech of liberty which is embodied in this wretched bill.


32 posted on 11/29/2009 4:26:39 PM PST by grumpygresh
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To: Cicero

Another perverted child molester, disguised as an intelligent human being.

Drilling a hole in a baby’s skull and sucking the brain out is the ultimate child molestation.


33 posted on 11/29/2009 6:05:29 PM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: Chi-townChief
Were he alive today, he would have been appalled to learn that Bishop Thomas Tobin had admonished U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D-Rhode Island) not to receive communion unless he got in line with church orthodoxy on abortion.

Uh ... I doubt it. Any parishoner in a state of mortal sin should not receive the host. Tobin is protecting Kennedy from further sin and Egan would have understood that.

34 posted on 11/29/2009 7:04:05 PM PST by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: Chi-townChief

**It proves you can’t write about abortion, women and Catholic bishops and not get heavy heat. Add universal health care to the conversation?

Kaboom!**

LOL!

Bravo for Bishop Tobin and all the bishops who are speaking out AGAINST this stupid heahthcare legislation!


35 posted on 11/29/2009 9:25:35 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Chi-townChief
Bishops holding health-care bill hostage (Bishop Thomas Tobin speaks Truth to power)
USCCB: Senate health care bill 'morally unacceptable'
Meddling Bishops Interfere in Political Process
How the Stupak-Pitts Amendment May Change Our Politics

Health Care and the Power of the Bishops' Conference
Health Care and the Power of the Bishops' Conference
US Bishops: Abortion Isn't Health Care
Denver Archbishop Chaput says promises were broken on abortion
Catholic Bishops: Health Care Bill ... ‘Money-Laundering System’ for Funding Abortion

Catholic Caucus: The Bishops Go On Offense
US bishops conference mounts late drive against 'unacceptable' health-care reform
Catholic Bishops Urge Members to Oppose Abortion Funding in Health Care Plan [Catholic Uprising!]
Bishops Announce Unprecedented Massive Catholic Opposition to Obamacare
Bishops Call for Massive Catholic Opposition to Abortion in Current Health Care Reform

Archbishop Charles Chaput on the Current Struggle Between Catholics and "Caesar"
The Bishop's Ax Falls on Obama. And on the Vatican Curia (bombshell article)
US Bishops: Heath Package Still Funding Abortions (Urge Congress to Keep Working)
Catholic Bishops Declare They Will ‘Vigorously’ Oppose Health Care Bill as It Now Stands
Bishops Restate Vow vs. Obamacare's Abortion

Important: US Bishops taking the gloves off on health care reform
BREAKING: Catholic Bishops On Health Care - Change Bills Or Else
U.S. bishops warn of vigorous opposition if Congress fails to fix health care bills
List: *41* Bishops against Obamacare (and counting!)
Bishop Murphy Issues Video Statement on Health Care Reform [Diocese of Rockville Centre]

Health Care Principles [Bishop Samuel Aquila, Fargo, ND]
Florida Bishop [Thomas Wenski] Weighs in on Health Care Reform
ObamaCare and Catholic social teaching [Bishop Neckless]
Some Catholic bishops question gov't health care
Boston’s Roman Catholic Cardinal Says He Confronted Obama about Abortion in Health Care Plan....

Iowa Bishop: Don’t Be Railroaded into the Current...Health Care Proposals
in a message issued by the Diocese of Sioux City (The Church on Universal Healthcare)
Nazi Health Care A Catholic Bishop Speaks Out Against "End of Life Care" (Germany, 1941)
Bishop Nickless: "No Health Care Reform is Better than the Wrong Health Care Reform"
Cardinal Rigali, Abp. Chaput Intensify Warnings Against Obamacare's Abortion Expansion

36 posted on 11/29/2009 9:27:44 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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