Skip to comments.Lithium Ion Batteries and GEVs: False Gods for the New Millennium
Posted on 12/01/2009 9:01:17 PM PST by shove_it
In other words it is very likely that the $68 million in ARRA battery manufacturing grants that went to lead-carbon battery manufacturers will generate greater gasoline savings and C02 emission reductions than the $1.2 billion in ARRA grants that went to lithium-ion battery companies. This is not a question of faith. The numbers cannot lie and the magnitude of the differences is too big to ignore. If you really want to make a difference, you take the baby steps and harvest the low-hanging fruit first.
Nobody with a spreadsheet and a rudimentary understanding of mathematics can honestly argue that subsidizing batteries for GEVs will hold a votive candle to using the same funds to subsidize batteries for Prius class HEVs. Adding the cost of GEV charging stations to the abysmal economics results in a picture that nobody but the blindly faithful could love. I have no doubt that a variety of GEVs will be introduced over the next couple of years because that's what the new religion demands. For obvious reasons, I expect the phenomenon to be a flash in the pan.
(Excerpt) Read more at seekingalpha.com ...
I gev up. What’s a “gev”?? Globally Enormous Vortex? Gargantuan Extraterrestrial Viper?
Grid enabled vehicle.
OK, I give up. So what’s a GEV?
Don’t bother reading the article, just have another drink.
Gummint Expensive Vehicle?
So, he’s saying that GEV, Grid Enabled Vehicles or plug in cars are the latest “flash in the pan” but that the Prias batteries are the best buy but if you could get a Prias to run on CNG that would be even better.
With some clever little analogies about environmentalism as a religion. Now THAT, we knew.
Why do that when there are diesels that perform much better.
That is true. Why don’t we sell them in the US? Only in Europe
I was just quoting the article.
Israel is going headlong into this technology (mostly for obvious reasons that have nothing to do with global warming)
They expect to be the first all-electric vehicle nation in the next 10 years:
“Better Place” is an Israeli startup that was recently purchased by SAP.
Now, that’s a pretty thang!
More on the Toyota Camry CNG Hybrid Concept car here:
“That is true. Why dont we sell them in the US? Only in Europe”
Diesels are sold HERE by VW (Jetta, Golf, Taureg), Audi (Q7, A3), BMW (335d, X5d), Mercedes (M320d, E320d).
Likely more models coming. (There are a lot more diesel engines in Europe from those companies)
VW has a new model in testing called TwinDrive which is a diesel-electric hybrid.
The current Jetta tdi (2.0 liter) gets 30 mpg city, 40 mpg highway. With hybrid I guess closer to 45 mpg city, 60 mpg highway. It has a 1.5 liter diesel engine.
The question might better be: Why aren’t the Detroit 3, Japan and Korea on the ball?
Lithium Ion cells have a power to weight advantage over other types of rechargeable batteries, but they are very temperamental. This gives the ones you find in electronic devices such as phones, cameras, mp3 players and laptop computers have some advantages. In these types of application they can perform admirably.
When you try to use Lithium Ion cells in applications where you are storing and discharging greater amounts of power with higher voltages and amperage like in a car or even a scooter... the challenges are far greater and the temperamental nature of the individual cells becomes much more problematic and sometimes even dangerous. After one gets their hands a little dirty working with these cells it is not hard to imagine how it could take vast amounts of money find practical ways to use them in this type of application.
For example: If you are using just two cells in series and they are not well matched during charging and discharging and one of the cells is either overcharged or especially if it is allowed to be discharged too far... you find yourself with a permanently damaged battery. It is very easy to do. Often one cell used in series will discharge almost completely while the other cell still has lots of power left.
Even using them in small flashlights incorrectly can end up destroying many cells if you are not paying very close attention and checking on them frequently. I know they are spending millions trying to perfect lithium ion batteries for transportation uses, but they may never be truly practical or economical. There are good reasons why unlike Ni-cads, and NIMH cells, Li-Ion cells can not be found in your neighborhood convenience store.
Sorry to ramble on... but I don't think most people appreciate the challenges involved in using Li-Ion cells in all electric vehicles. I am skeptical that the governments goals will be met.
Would that science could work with technology to generate innovation without greed and the lust for power getting in the middle of it!
I haven't checked convenience stores lately but you can buy them at Walmart, Radio Shack, Home Depot, Rite-Aid, Walgreens ....
Hybrids have little to no advantage in highway mpg. Why would you expect a 50% increase?
“Hybrids have little to no advantage in highway mpg. Why would you expect a 50% increase?”
I’ll defer to your superior knowledge.
But isn’t smaller displacement engine worth some gain?