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In Job Hunt, College Degree Canít Close Racial Gap
NY Times ^ | 30 November 2009 | Michael Luo

Posted on 12/04/2009 7:19:44 AM PST by Erik Latranyi

Johnny R. Williams, 30, would appear to be an unlikely person to have to fret about the impact of race on his job search, with companies like JPMorgan Chase and an M.B.A. from the University of Chicago on his résumé.

Barry Jabbar Sykes goes by Barry J. Sykes in his job hunt.

But after graduating from business school last year and not having much success garnering interviews, he decided to retool his résumé, scrubbing it of any details that might tip off his skin color. His membership, for instance, in the African-American business students association? Deleted.

“If they’re going to X me,” Mr. Williams said, “I’d like to at least get in the door first.”

Similarly, Barry Jabbar Sykes, 37, who has a degree in mathematics from Morehouse College, a historically black college in Atlanta, now uses Barry J. Sykes in his continuing search for an information technology position, even though he has gone by Jabbar his whole life.

“Barry sounds like I could be from Ireland,” he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: degree; jobs; minorities; racism
Thr cries of 'racism' continue...

“There is resentment toward his presidency among some because of his race,” said Edward Verner, a Morehouse alumnus from New Jersey who was laid off as a regional sales manager and has been able to find only part-time work. “This has affected well-educated, African-American job seekers.”

Minorities that do not suffer from such stereotypes are not homogenous in their thinking, voting and activism.

1 posted on 12/04/2009 7:19:44 AM PST by Erik Latranyi
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To: Erik Latranyi
Will the whining never end?

Try job hunting at 45+ if you want to experience discrimination.

2 posted on 12/04/2009 7:27:30 AM PST by skeeter
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To: Erik Latranyi

“There is resentment toward his presidency among some because of his race,” said Edward Verner, a Morehouse alumnus from New Jersey “

Uh huh........then why did white people elect him?


3 posted on 12/04/2009 7:28:32 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker (Support our troops, and vote out the RINO's!)
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To: Erik Latranyi

People really are capable of hiring the best people for the job.

I used to oversee the Mac computer lab at a liberal arts college, and the best guy on the security staff was an African. His first name was 15 letters long, started with MW and went downhill from there. If he applied for a job with me right now, I’d give him a fair hearing.


4 posted on 12/04/2009 7:29:10 AM PST by Dr. Sivana
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To: Erik Latranyi

I thought this was going to be about a White Male, one of the more endangered species.


5 posted on 12/04/2009 7:35:41 AM PST by bboop
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To: skeeter

I heard somebody did a study of job apps. a few years ago. And they claimed that there was discrimination against those with certain types of names. For example, they found discriminiation against names such as Tyrone and Shaniqua. They filled out fake job applications with stereotypical black sounding names to see what would happen. And they claim that these people were not interviewed for jobs.


6 posted on 12/04/2009 7:37:09 AM PST by Dilbert San Diego
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To: skeeter
Try job hunting at 45+ if you want to experience discrimination.

That's a fact!

I managed testing and quality control labs for a Fortune 200 company. A lot of the "testers" were AA employees who were in the lab, because the production side was happy to be rid of them. I heard a lot of whining about how badly they were being treated, etc. A lot of serious entitlement - the notion that they should be promoted and it shouldn't involve things like attendance and productivity. It always amazed me how AA employees with college degrees possessed neither the ability to write or speak in good English. No excuses at this particular company either. They were BIG into diversity and had special programs to help AA employees learn the needed skills and advance.

That combined with my experience as an adult single parent returning to school to get an education effectively eliminated all sympathy for the so-called downtrodden black American. Any black American who wishes to have an education and to advance in life can do so. Its a choice. The perpetual victim thing is self-destructive and I do NOT want to hear it anymore.

7 posted on 12/04/2009 7:38:47 AM PST by Roses0508
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To: Erik Latranyi

He’s got a point about deleting memberships off the resume. For instance, I wouldn’t hire anyone who was a member of the Congressional Black Caucus for the position of dog catcher.


8 posted on 12/04/2009 7:39:25 AM PST by VeniVidiVici (Keep your dog. Get rid of a Liberal.)
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To: Erik Latranyi

Funny, though, if it’s a technical or engineering job he’s looking for, big consumer-products companies like P&G, Kimberly-Clark and Colgate-Palmolive will throw themselves at African-American business-student’s-association-member Barry Jabbar’s feet. Gotta have professional minority-types on the payroll when the diversity-mongers audit by skin color. Might hafta work long, odd hours for years in smelly, chemical-soaked, ugly buildings in some obscure Redkneckville, but, it’s work, hayna? Or no?


9 posted on 12/04/2009 7:39:44 AM PST by flowerplough ( Pennsylvania today - New New Jersey meets North West Virginia.)
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To: Erik Latranyi
“All Black College” and “Chicago” smells like racial militant and bigoted cronie. There's your problem. It's not the name.
10 posted on 12/04/2009 7:40:07 AM PST by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......?)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
I heard somebody did a study of job apps. a few years ago ... they found discrimination against names such as Tyrone and Shaniqua.

I wonder whether this was racism, an assumption that affirmative action had tainted the claimed education so that Tyrone and Shaniqua would not have been held to the same standards as Steve and Jane, or an assumption that those whose parents gave them distinctly black names would also have been raised with the new distinctly black (victim) values rather than with traditional values. If they just didn't want blacks, I would be disappointed - and quite surprised. If they had found that our educational system had failed blacks and they had to look at claimed education sceptically, it may make more sense. And if they had learned that those raised as victims are non-productive until they have an excuse for a lawsuit and then they are even worse, I am 100% behind the hiring managers.

11 posted on 12/04/2009 7:44:38 AM PST by TurtleUp ([...Insert today's quote from Community-Organizer-in-Chief...] - Obama, YOU LIE!)
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To: Earthdweller

University of Chicago, absent its present identification with a certain national leader, is as good a university as there is in the US. Until recently I’d sooner have said I went to U of C than Harvard. (as it is, I went to neither)

It was formerly associated with Milton Friedman. Unfortunately, it seems it’s being taken over by an entirely new crowd. The current faculty revolted at the school’s naming a division in honor of Dr. Friedman.


12 posted on 12/04/2009 7:50:23 AM PST by EDINVA
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To: VeniVidiVici
He’s got a point about deleting memberships off the resume. For instance, I wouldn’t hire anyone who was a member of the Congressional Black Caucus for the position of dog catcher.

Wouldn't you think that someone with an MBA would have known that ??

I have never put my Life Membership in the NRA on a resume.

How dumb are these post-graduates today ??

Or are they really just AAs.


13 posted on 12/04/2009 7:51:10 AM PST by Uriíel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Erik Latranyi

“Barry sounds like I cold be from Ireland.” Why, yes, like Barry O’Bama.


14 posted on 12/04/2009 7:55:16 AM PST by Malesherbes (Sauve Qui Peut)
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To: skeeter
Try job hunting at 45+ if you want to experience discrimination.

Really. I don't even bother looking in some markets due to rampant ageism. E.g. law firms, Los Angeles.

15 posted on 12/04/2009 7:56:51 AM PST by no-s (B.L.O.A.T. everyday...because someday soon they won't be making any more...for you.)
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To: Erik Latranyi

Well educated in the era of AA, quotas etc. is subject to interpretation ... the employer’s.


16 posted on 12/04/2009 7:59:00 AM PST by Let's Roll (Stop paying ACORN to destroy America! Cut off their government funding!)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
I have a friend that used to use a lot of temp workers to unload containers of freight and palletize them. He went through a lot of people, because the work was hard and the pay not too good. He hired about 4 or 5 Tyrones over the course of the year, and all of them turned out to be slugs.

He called the temp agency and asked to send someone over, but his name couldn't be Tyrone. The (black) lady on the phone said that they couldn't honor his request, because it was racist. He replied that if she had a nice Irish Tyrone that he wasn't interested in him, either. She had no one available at that time, and had to call around and find someone.

She called the next day and told my friend that she had found him a good candidate - but his name was Tyrone.

I hope Tyrone found temp employment elsewhere, because he didn't get to work for my friend. And he found a new temp service, to boot!

17 posted on 12/04/2009 8:03:17 AM PST by TnGOP (Petey the dog is my foriegn policy advisor. He's really quite good!)
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To: Erik Latranyi

A month or so ago a female British banking exec was testifying before some kind of government inquiry. She made the comment that, in her opinion, banks would be foolish to hire women because of the legal grief those hires have the potential to create by leveraging anti-discrimination laws. Once you let them in the door you’re stuck with them. On the other hand if you hire white males you are never “stuck” with any you don’t like, you just show ‘em the door - nbd.

Ditto blacks - all the government interference in the labor market increases the risks in hiring minorities. You almost hope you don’t get a resume from a minority, and if you do it goes straight to the shredder (”which resume? What are you talking about?”)

These anit-discrimination laws can provoke as much discrimination as they prevent - perhaps even more! - because of the risk they create.


18 posted on 12/04/2009 8:08:47 AM PST by lowtaxsmallgov (Low Taxes, Small Government - we can do it!)
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To: Erik Latranyi

Here is the problem in a nutshell. Unless you are an extremely large Corp., an employer has to think about the ramifications of getting a discrimination charge brought against them.


19 posted on 12/04/2009 8:10:20 AM PST by panthermom
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To: Erik Latranyi

Everybody’s having a tough time finding a job. Even Mexican “undocumenteds” are having a hard time.


20 posted on 12/04/2009 8:11:56 AM PST by popdonnelly (Yes, we disagree - no, we won't shut up - no, we won't quit.)
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To: skeeter
Try job hunting at 45+ if you want to experience discrimination.

If you think it's difficult at 45, try it at 55. There's a hip new way of saying you're overqualified, and I've heard it more than once:

"Your resume's too strong."

My response? "Show me where I need to dumb it down."

Crickets chirp uncomfortably, followed by, "it was a pleasure meeting with you."

21 posted on 12/04/2009 8:29:44 AM PST by Night Hides Not (If Dick Cheney = Darth Vader, then Joe Biden = Dark Helmet)
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To: Erik Latranyi

The last time I interviewed candidates for an engineering job, the two best were a white guy and a Turkish woman. The woman had the edge technically, while the guy was hungrier and more aggressive. Either would have been a good choice - until the crash came.

My first choice for a designer was a black guy. He had the best experience, even though he came from a “traditionally black college”. For my purposes, they had a good program. I know I’ve seen a hell of a lot worse.

Both the black designer candidate and the female engineering candidate have recently been in contact. I’m hoping for an improvement in business conditions to allow me to hire either.

Names wouldn’t put me off. An inabilty to speak English, an obvious racist attitude or a history of unattractive activism would.


22 posted on 12/04/2009 8:33:37 AM PST by jimt
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To: Erik Latranyi
His membership, for instance, in the African-American business students association?

I wouldn't object to the candidate being black, but I would wonder why he felt the need to segregate himself from the other business students. Yes, membership in an organization such as this could be a red flag that you have a bigot on your hands.

For the record, I wouldn't hire a member of the Aryan Business Students Association either.

23 posted on 12/04/2009 8:46:41 AM PST by TN4Liberty (My tagline disappeared so this is my new one.)
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To: VeniVidiVici
He’s got a point about deleting memberships off the resume. For instance, I wouldn’t hire anyone who was a member of the Congressional Black Caucus for the position of dog catcher.

Or ACORN.

24 posted on 12/04/2009 8:49:09 AM PST by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Made from The Right Stuff)
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To: EDINVA

I graduated from the University of Chicago - when I was there it still held very high standards but it still had its carefully nurtured quota of hard lefties - it has always been so. Example: the recent Alumni magazine included a 1946 (yes, that was 63 years ago) female graduate of the University raging on about those nasty old ‘teabaggers’ that pick on the big 0. She was apparently very familiar with the term in its crude colloquial sense.
From the general tone communicated in the Alumni magazine, my impression is that the University student body is desperately scrambling to join the Ivy League-rs (Princeton, Harvard, Yale, etc.) and the socialist wanna-bes at UC-Berkeley and Duke at the very bottom of the intellectual pile.


25 posted on 12/04/2009 8:50:05 AM PST by NHResident
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To: Dilbert San Diego
they claimed that there was discrimination against those with certain types of names

they submitted the same resumes with different white and ethnic names on them, the white sounding names got called for interviews, of the rest about 10% got calls for interviews (not sure of the exact figure)
26 posted on 12/04/2009 9:04:31 AM PST by houston1
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To: Dilbert San Diego
If this is the study or studies you are referring to, the conclusions are mixed.
27 posted on 12/04/2009 9:11:09 AM PST by skeeter
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To: lowtaxsmallgov

all the government interference in the labor market increases the risks in hiring minorities. You almost hope you don’t get a resume from a minority, and if you do it goes straight to the shredder (”which resume? What are you talking about?”)

Sounds like you are not familiar with OFCCP. It is a Dept. of Labor standard that requires you to retain ALL job applications, keep detailed records by RACE, and be prepared to document which candidates where interviewed/considered by RACE and ultimately hired by RACE. This info is subject to reporting to the Federal Govt. and they can come and inspect your files at any time.

For example, if you hired an engineer, you would have to document that you received 155 applications, 44 of which were blacks, 59 femaile, 21 Hispanic, 12 Asian, etc. You would have to indicate that you selected 20 for interview: 9 white, 6 black, 2 Hispanic, 3 Asian, 5 Female. You would then justify why you chose to hire the one you did (particularly if a white male)

First they forced this onto Federal contractors, then onto anybody who got TARP or bailout money. Coming to the rest of us soon...


28 posted on 12/04/2009 9:15:03 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Erik Latranyi

Thomas Sowell long ago pointed out that affirmative action and civil rights laws tend to create disincentives to hiring minorities. In the aggregate, the educational credentials of minorities are inflated by easy admissions and grading under affirmative action, and every minority employee represents a potential civil rights claim. In a down economy, these hiring disincentives tend to be more consequential.


29 posted on 12/04/2009 9:35:37 AM PST by Rockingham
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Yet another reason not to take TARP money.


30 posted on 12/04/2009 9:45:00 AM PST by NathanR (,)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

..and what everybody seems to ignore, are the social implications of the social experiment.

30 years after these requirements are in effect, the dynamics of free enterprise now have responded.

The high quality people who weren’t previously hired because they didn’t fit the minority status, didn’t just die.

Instead a whole new industry of ‘Minority Subcontractors’ have emerged, with the firms essentially being operated and maintained by whites and some minorities who have learned the system, and have tooled up to compete by those new criterion for other contracts.

The only problem is that those factors aren’t the ones favoring quality, so the entire industry is lowered in standards and in future capacity to grow because their future associations are still geared towards those quotas.

IMHO, these artificial constraints have done more damage to American Integrity than improve any social ill.


31 posted on 12/04/2009 9:59:25 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Erik Latranyi

Actually, he is right, but for the wrong reason. Corporate HR departments are far less concerned with race, than with homogeneity in everything else. They don’t want personality, or personal distinction, or creativity, they want generic hires.

They want everyone to wear the same suits, to be about the same age, to have the same boring names, to not be too tall or too short, or too fat, or too ugly, or have unusual facial hair or style. They are not hiring for someone to change things, but to do the same things over and over again the same way.

This is important for minorities to realize. This is why his membership in the “African-American business students association” should properly be omitted. Isn’t there just a “business students association” he could have joined instead? In truth, it would have been just as disadvantageous of him to belong to the “Red-Haired business students association”, or the “poodle fancier business students association.”

And yet, when he shows up for the interview, while they will of course notice that he is black, the most important thing is his speech. If when he opens his mouth, he sounds just like everyone else who works there, he will likely be hired. Hopefully he will sound dull, which is what they want.


32 posted on 12/04/2009 10:47:42 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: NHResident

I hate to read about University of Chicago going downhill for the sake of political correctness. One could have hoped that there were a few, just a few, universities in the US that were purely academic in the finest sense. For whatever reason, in my mind UofC was the most truly intellectual campus in the US. So, I commend you for success in that rigorous environment.

(I still don’t know and don’t want to know the colloquial meaning of that term, just the hints are as much as I need to know)


33 posted on 12/04/2009 1:36:01 PM PST by EDINVA
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