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Are Sunspots Disappearing? (Global Cooling Alert)
Nasa ^ | 09.03.2009 | Matt Penn

Posted on 12/04/2009 9:41:40 AM PST by dila813

September 3, 2009: The sun is in the pits of the deepest solar minimum in nearly a century. Weeks and sometimes whole months go by without even a single tiny sunspot. The quiet has dragged out for more than two years, prompting some observers to wonder, are sunspots disappearing?

"Personally, I'm betting that sunspots are coming back," says researcher Matt Penn of the National Solar Observatory (NSO) in Tucson, Arizona. But, he allows, "there is some evidence that they won't."

Penn's colleague Bill Livingston of the NSO has been measuring the magnetic fields of sunspots for the past 17 years, and he has found a remarkable trend. Sunspot magnetism is on the decline:

(Excerpt) Read more at science.nasa.gov ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: globalwarming; sunspots
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Wow, if this happens, we are going to want all the green house gases we can to prevent another Ice Age. Look at that trend chart.

"Sunspot magnetic fields are dropping by about 50 gauss per year," says WPenn. "If we extrapolate this trend into the future, sunspots could completely vanish around the year 2015."

1 posted on 12/04/2009 9:41:40 AM PST by dila813
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To: dila813

I’d say, we’re screwed.


2 posted on 12/04/2009 9:46:09 AM PST by netmilsmom (I am Ilk)
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To: dila813
"Personally, I'm betting that sunspots are coming back," says researcher Matt Penn of the National Solar Observatory (NSO) in Tucson, Arizona. But, he allows, "there is some evidence that they won't."

My word.

Sunspots are cyclic. We know that. They come and they go. Sometimes their presence or their absence is especially notable. At the present time, their absence is extremely pronounced. Fine.

But evidence that they won't come back? Excuse me? Does this guy panic at 9PM, worried that dawn will never come? This guy is a solar researcher, and he talks like that??

3 posted on 12/04/2009 9:46:26 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Play the Race Card -- lose the game.)
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To: dila813

Bookmark


4 posted on 12/04/2009 9:47:58 AM PST by dragnet2
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To: ClearCase_guy

But, he allows, “there is some evidence that they won’t.”

Well, my dimwitted friend, evidence hasn’t stopped you aholes from reaching your moronic conclusions yet...


5 posted on 12/04/2009 9:48:42 AM PST by jessduntno (Make the Democrats STFU - Stop The Federal Usurpation...dump them out in 2010.)
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To: dila813

Global Cooling Alert!!!!

We need Government-Funded SUV’s!!!


6 posted on 12/04/2009 9:50:35 AM PST by Tex-Con-Man
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To: dila813
This is exactly what I have been saying for years, if the people screaming end of the world, global warming, ect had an ounce of honesty they would be the first people calling for increased use of SUV’s, and a major campaign to build thousands of coal fired power plants to fight the coming Ice Age.

But that will NEVER happen, because it was never about stopping global warming, it was just an attack on our modern way of life and capitalism and America in particular.

7 posted on 12/04/2009 9:51:57 AM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied, the economy died)
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To: ClearCase_guy
My word.

Sunspots are cyclic. We know that. They come and they go. Sometimes their presence or their absence is especially notable. At the present time, their absence is extremely pronounced. Fine.

But evidence that they won't come back? Excuse me? Does this guy panic at 9PM, worried that dawn will never come? This guy is a solar researcher, and he talks like that??

Except that the rotation of the earth is far more predictable and understood than sunspots. I'm not necessarily agreeing with the author, but it's entirely possible that we could see 1000 years without any sunspots, whereas the rising of the sun as a result of the earth's rotation is definitely assured.

All a function of things we understand verses things we do not.

8 posted on 12/04/2009 9:53:08 AM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: dila813
This is caused by Man using too much spot remover.

OMG, WE HAVE TO BAN SPOT REMOVER NOW!!!

</my liberal moment>

9 posted on 12/04/2009 9:53:15 AM PST by LibWhacker (America awake!)
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To: dila813
Not to worry.

The UN, IPCC, CRU, and the rest of the cabal of global Nazis will simply turn their "Dangerous global warming" graphs upside down.

Then we'll be told that they need to save us from the trend of dangerous global cooling.

10 posted on 12/04/2009 9:53:16 AM PST by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: dila813

could, might, maybe, perhaps,


11 posted on 12/04/2009 9:53:41 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: dila813

This is a very interesting article for two reasons:

#1, it demonstrates that there is a lot to be learned about climate change and it does indicate the possibility of cooling.

#2. Just as important you will note that we do not see hysterical wailing that the world is going to go back to the ice age with 5,000 ft. mountains of ice in IL and WI and that we are all going to die if we do not do something before dark tonight.

Instead you have the REAL scientists coll headed relation of the facts as he sees them and an admission that it is new ground that needs more examination and even that the research may be flawed.

Contrast that with the crazy rants of Al Gore and the rest of the GW crowd announcing that the world will end in years if not months.

These guys are to be respected whether right or not.


12 posted on 12/04/2009 9:54:23 AM PST by old curmudgeon
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To: ClearCase_guy
After ClimateGate, any scientist should know how to gaurd the tongue. The news folks should find the skeptics who will blast this guy with the raw data (graph of the cycles).

But don't expect the media to come a running. They are still trying to hold back ClimateGate is hopes that Obama will take Global control at Copenhagen.

13 posted on 12/04/2009 9:55:41 AM PST by sr4402
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To: dila813
Wow, if this happens, we are going to want all the green house gases we can to prevent another Ice Age. Look at that trend chart.

Too soon to panic. Somebody could plot a trend line of daylight hours from late June to late July and the trend line would show that we'd be heading toward perpetual nighttime.

14 posted on 12/04/2009 9:56:57 AM PST by Wissa ("So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."-Padme Amidala)
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To: dila813

The thing is, this could be correlated with the natural cycle of sunspots themselves, as pointed out in the article. Nobody really knows since most of the data is from DURING that cycle.

2009 had had fewer sunspots than 2008, so the minimum may not have been reached.


15 posted on 12/04/2009 9:58:13 AM PST by rwfromkansas ("Carve your name on hearts, not marble." - C.H. Spurgeon)
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To: dila813

OMG. How could we have possibly cause sun spots to disappear.

Algore will probably postulate the problem with sunspots disappearing is it tends to mask the global warming that is occurring...


16 posted on 12/04/2009 10:01:17 AM PST by OrioleFan (Republicans believe every day is the 4th of July, democrats believe every day is April 15)
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To: netmilsmom

Somehow, someway, this has got to be BUSH’S FAULT!.....................


17 posted on 12/04/2009 10:01:53 AM PST by Red Badger (Al Gore is the Bernie Madoff of environmentalism. He belongs in jail. - Unknown Blogger)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

No, if we go into a period of cooling, the socialists will suddenly realize that doubling CO2 will only increase heat retention by 2%, thus coal burning won’t matter.


18 posted on 12/04/2009 10:03:34 AM PST by kidd (Obama: The triumph of hope over evidence)
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To: ClearCase_guy

We may be in the beginnings of another “Maunder Minimum.” The lats time we had one, 1645-1715, we also had the “Little Ice Age.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_minimum


19 posted on 12/04/2009 10:05:18 AM PST by Red Badger (Al Gore is the Bernie Madoff of environmentalism. He belongs in jail. - Unknown Blogger)
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To: dila813

Fire up those SUV’s, we aim to save the world.


20 posted on 12/04/2009 10:05:18 AM PST by dforest (Who is the real Jim Thompson? I am.)
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To: dila813

21 posted on 12/04/2009 10:06:35 AM PST by earlJam
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To: dila813; All

“Personally, I’m betting that sunspots are coming back,” says researcher Matt Penn of the National Solar Observatory (NSO) in Tucson, Arizona. But, he allows, “there is some evidence that they won’t.”

I’m assuming that (Dr.?) Penn was misquoted, or quoted out of context. Making such statements about a well established cycle, is rather like noting that you lose 2 minutes of daylight per day in the fall, and extrapolating to the conclusion that it will be completely dark (24/7) by next summer.

I sincerely doubt anyone that could call themselves a scientific “researcher” would have made such a statement.

Do you suppose the reporter’s degree has “science” printed anywhere on the diploma?


22 posted on 12/04/2009 10:07:31 AM PST by Habibi
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To: dila813
The article states that 1500 gauss is needed for sunspot formation.
23 posted on 12/04/2009 10:07:57 AM PST by kidd (Obama: The triumph of hope over evidence)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

It is lost on liberals that we are really still at the end of the last ice age.

The earth goes through cycles, if we are still in the last ice age then it goes without saying at some point we won’t be in an ice age anymore and therefore everything will be warmer.


24 posted on 12/04/2009 10:10:19 AM PST by dila813
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To: dila813

Yes, they will disappear within the next 18 months. 6 months thereafter the sun will extinguish itself and collapse into a worm hole sucking in the entire planetary system with it. The reason? Cow farts. We have minutes, day’s to act to stop this. It will take all your money, your modern conveniences and the last bit of sense humanity has....we are doomed unless we act! Act Now! Visit the ‘Hopenhagen’ Website and sign the petition!


25 posted on 12/04/2009 10:11:04 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: ClearCase_guy

the magnetic field is declining.

If it gets too weak, no sun spots.

Regardless of where we are in the cycle, it has been weakening steadily.


26 posted on 12/04/2009 10:11:53 AM PST by dila813
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To: old curmudgeon

No. I’m sorry, this area of science is tainted and it would be criminal to ever make any sort of prediction with any sort of financial consequences based on a climate “scientist.” Unless they purge their ranks, HARD, they should have all the credibility of astrologers and alchemists.


27 posted on 12/04/2009 10:12:14 AM PST by ichabod1 ( I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Certainly, they will come back. Maybe not in our lifetimes!

The thing that scares me is this. If we are entering a minimum, the reaction of the sun might go like this for a while: Much lower (than average) lows, followed by the spots coming back with a vengeance. (I mean at the beginning of the minimum). Finally, for a few years, then settling down to lower lows and lower highs.

Make sense?


28 posted on 12/04/2009 10:12:29 AM PST by djf (Maybe life ain't about the doing - maybe it's just the trying... Hey, I don't make the rules!)
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To: dila813

It’s a cycle, long cycles, short cycles, cycles inside of cycles, and then boom, the earth is going to get scorched with a super, mega, gigantic flare, melting the ice sheets covering North America, and giving hope to the last of the Goreheads left alive.


29 posted on 12/04/2009 10:12:49 AM PST by pallis
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To: kidd

You are dead on right,

at that point it will be natural for the earth to freeze and we shouldn’t interfere with it.


30 posted on 12/04/2009 10:14:54 AM PST by dila813
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To: dila813

Even further beyond them is the notion that warming is good, cooling is bad, for people, plants, and animals.


31 posted on 12/04/2009 10:15:18 AM PST by ichabod1 ( I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet.)
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To: Habibi

This is about the strength of the magnetic field and not the number of sunspots.

If the field is too weak, no sun spots can form.


32 posted on 12/04/2009 10:16:21 AM PST by dila813
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To: dila813
Go here and see the blank face of the sun, day after day. Not a good thing, especially for us up here in Alaska.
33 posted on 12/04/2009 10:17:29 AM PST by redhead (We are not Sarah's army; rather, we are an army of Sarahs.)
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To: dila813

I have Popular Science magazines from the 1980s warning of the “coming mini-ice age”.That was before the socialist drummed up the global warming scam.


34 posted on 12/04/2009 10:19:24 AM PST by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
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To: Flycatcher
No matter what happens we're doomed.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944914,00.html

"Man, too, may be somewhat responsible for the cooling trend. The University of Wisconsin's Reid A. Bryson and other climatologists suggest that dust and other particles released into the atmosphere as a result of farming and fuel burning may be blocking more and more sunlight from reaching and heating the surface of the earth."

35 posted on 12/04/2009 10:22:03 AM PST by Spokane (Palin 2012: Change you'll be begging for...)
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To: dila813
September 3, 2009: The sun is in the pits of the deepest solar minimum in nearly a century. Weeks and sometimes whole months go by without even a single tiny sunspot. The quiet has dragged out for more than two years, prompting some observers to wonder, are sunspots disappearing?

"Personally, I'm betting that sunspots are coming back," says researcher Matt Penn of the National Solar Observatory (NSO) in Tucson, Arizona. But, he allows, "there is some evidence that they won't."

Now..., I would consider this to be a whole lot more serious science than all the "Anthropogenic Global Warming" stuff that I've seen where other scientists are talking about burning up... LOL...

36 posted on 12/04/2009 10:22:56 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: redhead

Yeah. I’ve been watching the progress (regress?) of the sunspot cycle for a few decades now as it’s intimately associated with one of my hobbies (amateur radio). No sunspots, lousy propagation. Seems like I saw an article on this in one of the trade magazines lately. If you’re interested I could dig it up and forward it to you.

I’m not entirely convinced it’s a “sure thing” big deal. Raising corn in western Nebraska might be more challenging if things continue to cool off. I’ll take global warming over global freezing if the choice is offered.


37 posted on 12/04/2009 10:24:38 AM PST by Habibi
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To: earlJam

Intersting graph, though it would be nice to see the last 30 years as well. I’m a little dubious of the smoothing. It seems like the red line should have droppped more than it did when sunspots dropped so much in the 1960’s. A similar increase in the 1970s caused the line to move up.


38 posted on 12/04/2009 10:26:03 AM PST by NC28203
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To: NC28203

Lots of graphs here:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&resnum=0&q=graph%20sunspots%20global%20warming&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi


39 posted on 12/04/2009 10:28:01 AM PST by earlJam
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To: kidd

That’s right, and this graph goes through an entire solar cycle.

Very worrying trend.

Everyone needs to separate the magnetic field vs sun spots, sun spots have gone up and down, but the magnetic field is heading consistently in the same direction.


40 posted on 12/04/2009 10:29:34 AM PST by dila813
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To: Habibi
"I’ll take global warming over global freezing if the choice is offered."

I agree. Life is better when it is lived in warmer temps. Trees and crops grow better, people are happier, etc. Alaska could use a little bit longer growing season, too. Just because people choose to live up here doesn't mean we don't like it when it is warm! LOL! Summers in this area can be very pleasant. Short, but nice.

41 posted on 12/04/2009 10:29:47 AM PST by redhead (We are not Sarah's army; rather, we are an army of Sarahs.)
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To: redhead

>> Go here and see the blank face of the sun, day after day. Not a good thing, especially for us up here in Alaska. <<

And the spots they cite are so darned small they are a mere pixel or maybe two.

We are in a solar minimum and this last year’s weather is proof of that.


42 posted on 12/04/2009 10:29:50 AM PST by GraceG
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To: Habibi
Making such statements about a well established cycle, is rather like noting that you lose 2 minutes of daylight per day in the fall...

You are making the same mistake that "warmists" make. They look at a short, near-term, cycle and extrapolate forward. Yes, the Sun has an 11-year sunspot cycle. It also has cycles of much longer duration and while sunspots may return, there is a good possibility it won't be anytime soon. The historical trend has been 100,000 years of cold followed by 10,000 of warm.

Guess where we are in the curve.

43 posted on 12/04/2009 10:33:24 AM PST by NY.SS-Bar9 (Bread and Circuses)
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To: Spokane

Yup, we are going to freeze AND burn. Good thing for liberals that such a paradox can easily exist in their minds.


44 posted on 12/04/2009 10:33:50 AM PST by HerrBlucher (Jail Al Gore and the Climate Frauds!)
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To: dila813; redhead
If the field is too weak, no sun spots can form.

As a ham radio operator, sunspots cause great world wide radio communications. I learned sun spots run in cycles of about 11 years, with a few minor exceptions here and there. If there are only a few sunspots, just wait awhile and they will return. When sun spots are at their peak, world wide radio communication is really hopping.

45 posted on 12/04/2009 10:40:52 AM PST by Mark17
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To: GraceG

I bought grow lights for our extra room and I’m saving strawberries through the winter.


46 posted on 12/04/2009 10:43:41 AM PST by netmilsmom (I am Ilk)
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To: Mark17

You are missing the point, if the magnetic field is too weak, they can’t form regardless of where we are in the cycle.


47 posted on 12/04/2009 10:44:35 AM PST by dila813
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To: Habibi

He is talking about the possibility of a major minimum.


48 posted on 12/04/2009 10:46:46 AM PST by Eurotwit
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To: dila813

49 posted on 12/04/2009 10:47:53 AM PST by metesky (My retirement fund is holding steady @ $.05 a can.)
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To: Eurotwit

No, that is already proven.

He is talking about the chance that we may even have seen the last of sun spots in 2015 on a permanent basis.

My Son’s Son, asks his dad “Do you remember when there were sun spots and the earth was warm?”


50 posted on 12/04/2009 10:53:51 AM PST by dila813
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