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Official Request byCongressmen to See Obama's Birth Certificate-Straw Which Breaks This Camel's Back
http://www.thepostemail.com/ ^

Posted on 12/04/2009 4:47:27 PM PST by cycle of discernment

OFFICIAL REQUEST BY CONGRESSMEN TO SEE OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE WILL BE THE STRAW WHICH BREAKS THIS CAMEL’S BACK

Political analysis by John Charlton

Obama's presidential campaign was hailed for its forceful imagery, but after 11 months the public has come to understand the undisputed facts about him, don't fit the requirements of the U.S. Constitution.

(Dec. 4, 2009) — Georgia’s representative in the U.S. House, Nathan Deal announced in early November that he and 10 House colleagues were going to sign a joint letter, asking Obama to publicly reveal his birth certificate,.

The simple enough question was rebuffed and ridiculed by the Main Stream Media, and even the Savannah Morning News, as if a birth certificate was some sort of private journal or diary of past affairs.

The mere fact that the liberals and progressives ridiculed Nathan Deal — whose only interest is to quiet the nation — shows that they have no substantive reason to oppose the request. It further shows that they know that Obama cannot oblige Deal and his co-signatories, for in Democratic circles nothing is a secret.

What will Obama say to Nathan Deal? The answer must come soon. Deal said that he was to send his letter after Thanksgiving. Any delay on the part of Barack Hussein Obama to oblige Deal, will only further erode his political influence in Washington, D.C..

Obama has been effectively checkmated by the concerted effort of public support, publicized lawsuits on the eligibility question, publicity campaigns such as those of World Net Daily and Charles Kerchner to put the issue in the face of liberals on a constant basis, and blogs and bloggers the world over.

If Obama obliges him, then the online image of a Certificate of Live Birth (COLB) provided by his campaign will be proven a forgery, according to the consensus of opinion of citizens who have studied the images posted on the net and found some images of the allegedly same document, contain a HI State seal and some do not.

If Obama does refuses, however, it will only further confirm that he has something to hide.

Palins remark that it is a valid issue and Ogden’s resignation as Deputy U.S. Attorney General in the same week, following the sending of Nathan Deal’s letter, appear to be diagnostic signs that the political establishment understands the risks and imminent crisis about to break. The publicity garnered by the testimony of the U.S. Marine, who goes by the nik, Race Bannon, only further tilt the Obama regime towards political implosion.

Even the pulse of Obama’s political support on the net tells the tale: a lull and quiet among them posting comments at opposition blogs is noticeable. There remain only the violent, the perverse and the somewhat mad to carry on the cheers of “Change,” which were the mind numbing drum beat of the Obama for American campaign, just 14 months ago.

The political momentum of the nation now follows diverse roads to the same destination, and the resulting fireworks are going to be much brighter and invigorating than those of any Fourth of July in many a year!


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 111th; article2section1; bho44; birthcertficate; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; citizen; citizenship; deal; eligibility; hawaii; honolulu; indonesia; ineligible; kenya; nathandeal; naturalborn; naturalborncitizen; obama; obamacrimes; obamafamily; obamatruth; obamatruthfile; passport; usurper
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To: curiosity
He released pictures of his COLB, a hard copy of which is just as good for the purposes of proving place of birth in any court of low or any Federal agency. Now it's true, a hard copy, not just a picture, is necessary for proof, but sending out a hard copy to every citizen who requests one doesn't seem like a reasonable demand to me.

LoL, you are not convincing anyone. Obama released pictures of a fraudulent COLB that is placed on the Internet. Totally meaningless. Are you for real? You can print his Internet COLB on any printer and it would still not be worth a bucket of Obama dung. For Obama's COLB to have legal status is to submit it to a court of law to verify its veracity, or he can authorize Hawaii to release his birth certificate to a court.

And what, pray tell, is the basis of your suspicion?

And again, Obama could release his real Hawaiian birth certificate to a court of law to relieve suspicions. As you know, Hawaii accepted statements of person(s) who witnessed a birth in the state of Hawaii in lieu of a baby being born in a Hawaiian hospital.

Huh? I don't follow your logic here. She based here statement on what Hawaii's vital records state, not on the Congressional resolution.

What I said was clear.

No, Hawaii says its vital records show Obama was born in Hawaii. I don't see what the congressional resolution has to do with it.

Most likely Grandma Dunham said so to Hawaii. You are being dense again. I stated why above.

Only in your mind.

No evasiveness here but yours is.

351 posted on 12/07/2009 12:58:43 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: curiosity

Common Sense dictates that less official persons involved in creating or registering.recording a document makes it easier it commit fraud.:

State Practices Create Opportunities for Fraud

Delayed, Amended, and Midwife Birth Registrations Provide Opportunities for Fraud. State and local vital records staff say birth certificates issued based on delayed and amended birth registrations are more likely to be fraudulent. They also say they consider births registered by midwives, and other home births, to have a high potential for fraud.

Delayed birth registration occurs when a certificate of birth is not filed within the time specified by State law. Delayed birth registrations are sometimes the result of unattended home births, midwife births, and other out-of-hospital births.

The Model State and Vital Statistics Act and Regulations require delayed certificates to be issued for births not filed within 1 year. Based on our survey responses, the State median time frame for filing delayed registrations is 1 year, but varies from State-to-State and ranges between 10 days and 4 years.

Federal and State staff alerted us to problems with delayed birth registration. These problems arise from the lack of evidence required to file a delayed birth in some States. Not all States include information with birth certificates about the documentary evidence they accept as proof a birth occurred, and upon which delayed registrations are allowed, with delayed birth certificates. Likewise, the documentary evidence required to register delayed births is inconsistent among States. Forty-seven States accept affidavits of personal knowledge as proof a birth occurred, and 14 include no abstract of documentary evidence when issuing delayed birth certificates.

Amended birth registration occurs when changes are made to the vital information contained on the original birth registration. While we did not specifically address amended birth registrations in our survey, they were identified as problematic in our discussions with Federal agency and State vital records office staff. The overall concern surrounding amended registrations is similar to that of delayed registrations in that some States do not require substantial evidence to amend birth registrations and that birth certificates issued based on amended registrations are not clearly marked as having been “amended.” One State registrar also noted a growing problem in which adults are adopted by other adults, usually for inheritance purposes. In these cases, the adopted person undergoes a legal change of name and their birth record is altered, but the fact that the adoption took place is never recorded in any way on the original or amended birth certificate.

Midwife birth registrations were also identified as an area of concern. Midwives provide a valuable service in insuring the healthy delivery of children and accurate registration of births. However, out-of-hospital births attended by midwives have raised concerns. Sixteen State registrars indicate they have encountered problems specifically linked to midwife birth registration. Our discussions with Federal, State, and local staff during our onsite visits indicate that problems associated with midwife registrations are concentrated along the United States-Mexico border. In fact, midwife registration has become such a problem in one border city we visited that they now require a police officer to be called to the scene shortly after any midwife delivery to verify that the birth actually occurred in the United States. All 41 States that allow midwives to register births have procedures and guidelines in place for such registration, but only 17 of those States require information in addition to or different from that required for hospital births. The additional information required to register midwife births in these States can include attendant affidavits, prenatal and/or post-partum records, and notarized statements or other documentation verifying the birth took place. In addition, some States require that midwives provide documentation that the mother lived in the State at the time the birth occurred.

http://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-07-99-00570.pdf


352 posted on 12/07/2009 1:17:18 PM PST by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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To: curiosity

And you are simply an Obot one sentence Charlie that states “That is not true” to EVERYTHING. Not to mention that you have exaggerated some of the things. Nobody or few said a travel ban, they said “a travel warning” to Pakistan. You never really back up anything. And as to a COLB. Yeah you could take a live breathing baby into a hospital in Hawaii with a witness and they would certify that you had a Living baby (or birth). A puppy would work too.

Everything aside tho, it’s kinda sad that you are so unconcerned for WHO and WHAT is ruining your once wonderful country at such lightning speed. When the Islamic nukes start dropping on you or when the THUGS are at your door, you just might not take it so lightly. I am very sorry for you. CO


353 posted on 12/07/2009 1:25:32 PM PST by Canadian Outrage (Conservatism is to a country what medicine is to a wound - HEALING!!)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

Actually, if I miscontrued that you were in favour of Obama being POTUS under the present circumstances then you have my apology. Sometimes, it helps if one makes their stanace absolutely clear tho. CO


354 posted on 12/07/2009 1:29:36 PM PST by Canadian Outrage (Conservatism is to a country what medicine is to a wound - HEALING!!)
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To: rolling_stone
Common Sense dictates that less official persons involved in creating or registering.recording a document makes it easier it commit fraud.:

Yes, I agree, it is easier to commit fraud in the case of a home birth. That still doesn't mean it is "likely" that Obama's birth was fraudulantly registered.

What makes you think it was likely? What possible motive would Bambi's grandma have? What evidence do you have that she did it?

355 posted on 12/07/2009 1:30:38 PM PST by curiosity
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To: Canadian Outrage
“That is not true” to EVERYTHING."

What am I supposed to say when I read something that isn't true?

You never really back up anything.

I back up every positive factual assertion that I make.

When I deny a fact that someone else positively asserts, it is up to that person, not me, to back it up.

It really amuses me how birthers respond to me when I say "that's not true." If I say that something isn't true, and it really is true, then the appropriate response is to provide the evidence to show it is true.

But you birthers never do that. Instead you complain about my denial.

Well, put up of shut up. If my denail of your claims is so off base, then show me the evidence that proves your claims to be true.

Your failure to do so proves my point.

356 posted on 12/07/2009 1:37:31 PM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity

If Obie jrs parents were living in Honolulu Hawaii in 1961, they are very close to hospitals and would likely go to a hospital immediately upon indications of labor. A home birth in Honolulu is unlikely. In fact less than 1% of all births in the Hawaiian islands in 1961 were home births.

Of course his mother and grandmother had every reason to lie about his place of birth, if he was not born in the USA but in Kenya, he would not be an American citizen and would make it difficult for Stanley Ann (and grandma) to get custody. Please take off your blinders and look at this objectively.

What evidence do you have that he was born in a hospital and which one?


357 posted on 12/07/2009 1:38:47 PM PST by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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To: shield

“...out of our WH in hand cuffs...”

Along with the others complicit in this fraud...Pelosi, Reid, et al.


358 posted on 12/07/2009 1:42:11 PM PST by Williford
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To: Red Steel
LoL, you are not convincing anyone. Obama released pictures of a fraudulent COLB that is placed on the Internet.

LOL. The fact that you and some anonymous internet "guru," without any real credentials, thinks it is fraudulent doesn't make it so.

For Obama's COLB to have legal status is to submit it to a court of law to verify its veracity, or he can authorize Hawaii to release his birth certificate to a court.

Yes, if a court or law were to ask for it, that is what he would do. But no court has asked for it to date.

And again, Obama could release his real Hawaiian birth certificate to a court of law to relieve suspicions.

What makes you think he, or any court of law, takes your suspicions seriously?

What evidence can you provide to make a court think your suspicions anything more than a baseless, wild accusation?

As you know, Hawaii accepted statements of person(s) who witnessed a birth in the state of Hawaii in lieu of a baby being born in a Hawaiian hospital.

As does every state. So what? That doesn't stop the State Department or any other Federal agency from accepting birth certificates based on such testimony. If someone wants to assert that such a birth is fraudulant, then the burden is on him to prove it.

Now why don't you answer my question: what makes you think it is likely that Obama's birth was fraudulantly registered?

359 posted on 12/07/2009 1:45:39 PM PST by curiosity
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To: rolling_stone
If Obie jrs parents were living in Honolulu Hawaii in 1961, they are very close to hospitals and would likely go to a hospital immediately upon indications of labor. A home birth in Honolulu is unlikely. In fact less than 1% of all births in the Hawaiian islands in 1961 were home births.

I agree, which is why I seriously doubt he was born at home. However, even if turned out he were born in the home, that would be no reason to suspect fraud.

Of course his mother and grandmother had every reason to lie about his place of birth, if he was not born in the USA but in Kenya, he would not be an American citizen and would make it difficult for Stanley Ann (and grandma) to get custody.

Barbara Streisand. If he were born in Kenya, he wouldn't have been born a US citizen, but it would be very easy for his mother to obtain naturalized citizenship for him, since she herself was a US citizen.

Why should she risk committing fraud when she could do everything legally?

Unless, of course, you think she was secretly planning for the day her son would run for President...

360 posted on 12/07/2009 1:49:17 PM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity
I agree, which is why I seriously doubt he was born at home. However, even if turned out he were born in the home, that would be no reason to suspect fraud.

If you wouldn't suspect fraud with this bunch of liars I cant help you, you probably still believe in the Easter Bunny.

Of course his mother and grandmother had every reason to lie about his place of birth, if he was not born in the USA but in Kenya, he would not be an American citizen and would make it difficult for Stanley Ann (and grandma) to get custody.

Barbara Streisand. If he were born in Kenya, he wouldn't have been born a US citizen, but it would be very easy for his mother to obtain naturalized citizenship for him, since she herself was a US citizen.

Not if Daddy Obama wanted to take his child back to Kenya with him. Obama would not be an adopted child thus go through a completely different process in 1961 than Barbara Streisand. Tell me how he could be naturalized if born in 1961? How long would it take? What would having a foreign father from Kenya have to do with the procedure?

Why should she risk committing fraud when she could do everything legally?

Maybe the same reason Obama won't show his real long form BC and College Records, he can't. Look at Stanley Ann's divorce filing and tell me if she committed fraud? Why? Was it easier? Did their marriage application show Obama Sr was already married? Why not? IMO you are either very naive, uninformed or ------.

361 posted on 12/07/2009 2:11:54 PM PST by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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To: curiosity
LOL. The fact that you and some anonymous internet "guru," without any real credentials, thinks it is fraudulent doesn't make it so.

It doesn't take an 'Internet guru' to spot a fake:

Yes, if a court or law were to ask for it, that is what he would do. But no court has asked for it to date.

Yes, it's easier to spend 1.7 million on lawyers to prevent a court to see it than spend 12 dollars. Another example of Obama's evasiveness that people understand.

What makes you think he, or any court of law, takes your suspicions seriously?

What makes you think Obama is honest? When the courts find their little balls to see a case on the merits, sometime in the future.

What evidence can you provide to make a court think your suspicions anything more than a baseless, wild accusation?

Obama has not made the case that he is Hawaiian born. He can show his real birth certificate to a court, which he has not.

As does every state. So what? That doesn't stop the State Department or any other Federal agency from accepting birth certificates based on such testimony. If someone wants to assert that such a birth is fraudulant, then the burden is on him to prove it.

But but...Obama was born in a Hawaiian hospital? He would be caught in a big lie if he was born anywhere else - liar lair. So you think Obama was born where ... in a sugarcane field? States and the state department can be fooled or maybe they want to be fools. The subject here is Obama. If Obama was born anywhere else beside being born at Kapi'olani hospital would open himself up to even more and new intense scrutiny and investigations to where he was really born.

Now why don't you answer my question: what makes you think it is likely that Obama's birth was fraudulantly registered?

You like redundancy. See forged seal above. It's easy to question Obama's birth certificate or presidential legitamacy when "factcheck".org can't fact check.

362 posted on 12/07/2009 2:18:26 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: rolling_stone
If you wouldn't suspect fraud with this bunch of liars I cant help you, you probably still believe in the Easter Bunny.

In other words, your suspicions have no basis in fact.

Of course his mother and grandmother had every reason to lie about his place of birth,

No they did not, for reasons stated below.

Tell me how he could be naturalized if born in 1961?

Secton 1431 of the US immigration code, originally adopted in 1952:

a) A child born outside of the United States automatically becomes a citizen of the United States when all of the following conditions have been fulfilled:
(1) At least one parent of the child is a citizen of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization.
(2) The child is under the age of eighteen years.
(3) The child is residing in the United States in the legal and physical custody of the citizen parent pursuant to a lawful admission for permanent residence.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/uscode/8usc/www/t8-12-III-II-1431.html

How long would it take?

It would be automatic as soon as brought Bambi back to the US and established residency.

What would having a foreign father from Kenya have to do with the procedure?

Nothing.

Maybe the same reason Obama won't show his real long form BC and College Records, he can't.

That doesn't make any sense. He's not committing fraud by declining to show you either.

Look at Stanley Ann's divorce filing and tell me if she committed fraud?

I see no reason to believe she comitted fraud in that filing. What makes you think she did so?

Did their marriage application show Obama Sr was already married? Why not?

Most likely because his first marriage was a tribal one not recognized by either Kenyan of US law. Either that, or Obama Sr. was hiding his first marriage from his wife and, being a polygamist, did not want to get a divorce.

In that case, it would be Obama Sr. committing fraud, not Stanley Ann. And he would have a reason to committ it, unlike Stanley Ann.

363 posted on 12/07/2009 2:26:49 PM PST by curiosity
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To: Red Steel
It doesn't take an 'Internet guru' to spot a fake:

Nice images, but how, exactly, do they prove the COLB is a fake?

Yes, it's easier to spend 1.7 million on lawyers to prevent a court to see it than spend 12 dollars.

And what evidence do you have that he's spent anything close to that amount?

What makes you think Obama is honest?

I don't think he's honest. However, unfortunately, honest is not an eligibility requirement.

Obama has not made the case that he is Hawaiian born. He can show his real birth certificate to a court, which he has not.

Again, no court has asked him to do so.

But but...Obama was born in a Hawaiian hospital?

Yes, I believe he was. I was simply stimulating, for sake of argument, that even if he wasn't, that doesn't prove he was born somewhere other than Hawaii.

He would be caught in a big lie if he was born anywhere else - liar lair.

True, which is why I think the probability of is birth record showing a home birth is about zero. So long as he has a valid birth certificate, he has no reason to lie about a home birth.

So you think Obama was born where ... in a sugarcane field?

I believe he was born in Kapiolani hospital, as he says he was.

I believe him because 1) the Hawaiian birth records show he was born in Hawaii and 2) he would have nothing to gain by lying about the hospital. There's nothing embarassing or diqualifying about being born at home.

The subject here is Obama. If Obama was born anywhere else beside being born at Kapi'olani hospital would open himself up to even more and new intense scrutiny and investigations to where he was really born.

That's only because he has said consistently to date that he was born in a hospital.

If he had said from the get-go that he was born at home, there would be nothing damaging about such a relevlation.

Why would he risk lying about being born in a hosptial if there was nothing to gain from such a lie?

You like redundancy. See forged seal above.

I see no evidence that it is forged.

364 posted on 12/07/2009 2:35:28 PM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity

So called “birthers” which name I hate, btw, since we are just people that love the United States because we are citizens or because we have many relatives and friends that are, are NOT required to prove a negative. Those advocating on my side provide more research and evidence than I have ever seen from the others. I akin your stance to the Jim Jones situation - once you drank the Kool-Aid you were screwed. The End. CO


365 posted on 12/07/2009 3:27:46 PM PST by Canadian Outrage (Conservatism is to a country what medicine is to a wound - HEALING!!)
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To: curiosity
I see you have either a reading comprehensive problem or some other inability to answer a simple question. I repeat, in 1961 when Obie Jr was supposed to be born how could he either derive or acquire US Citizenship or using your term naturalize? HINT that was before the Child Citizenship act of 2000.

Second you ignore once again the Kenyan father who would have to acquiesce to his son living in the USA.

You also never answered what evidence is there that Obie was born in any hospital?

366 posted on 12/07/2009 6:51:09 PM PST by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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To: curiosity
The problem being that the same department can also verify that Chiang Kai-Shek was born in Hawaii, as it can also do for any number of foreign born children adopted by Hawaiians.

It was Sun Yat-sen - but never mind

367 posted on 12/07/2009 7:39:11 PM PST by lucysmom
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To: curiosity
None of the above claims are true, yet birthers continue to repeat them, ad nausiam, over and over again as if they were gospel.

What is it they say about lies...

368 posted on 12/07/2009 7:41:34 PM PST by lucysmom
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To: curiosity
Even if that were true (and it's not), so? How exactly would it prove Obama isn't eligible to be president?

If he traveled on an Indonesian/British or Equatorial Guinea passport, would he be eligible???

369 posted on 12/07/2009 7:50:44 PM PST by danamco
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To: Canadian Outrage

Now this person, he/she is a professor at University of Washington, one of our country’s most liberal State. I feel real sorry for the students being taught by this “individual”!!!


370 posted on 12/07/2009 9:56:33 PM PST by danamco
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To: Red Steel

Lucas’ Kenyan BC is as authentic as that one on the Annenberg site!!!


371 posted on 12/07/2009 10:06:26 PM PST by danamco
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To: curiosity

I don’t believe you. Do you have a link?


Hey Oboty, you constantly posts that we don’t have any evidence that your affirmative action illegal alien and usurper is born outside Hawaii.

The evidence we have presented here are as trustworthy as your non-evidence posted.

Here is a link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyf2RWXLse8


372 posted on 12/07/2009 10:50:04 PM PST by danamco
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To: Red Steel; rolling_stone; Canadian Outrage

See #372 as an answer to this hairsplitting professor moron!!!


373 posted on 12/07/2009 10:57:43 PM PST by danamco
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To: STARWISE
Very telling....

-Troll Posse ready to spring on BC threads.

-Likes the way they are treated on lib sites.....

Hmmmm.......

374 posted on 12/07/2009 11:20:13 PM PST by antceecee (Bless us Father.. have mercy on us and protect us from evil.)
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To: curiosity; Red Steel

Hey smart alec, here you have five different video links explaining the fraud and how easy it is to fake a BC, that even YOU should be able to understand:

http://nobarack08.wordpress.com/obama-birth-certifcation-forgery/


375 posted on 12/07/2009 11:41:55 PM PST by danamco
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To: BuckeyeTexan

That’s a wonderful troll list you’ve got there.


376 posted on 12/08/2009 1:13:13 AM PST by Kevmo (So America gets what America deserves - the destruction of its Constitution. ~Leo Donofrio, 6/1/09)
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To: curiosity; Red Steel
He released pictures of his COLB, a hard copy of which is just as good for the purposes of proving place of birth in any court of low or any Federal agency. Now it's true, a hard copy, not just a picture, is necessary for proof, but sending out a hard copy to every citizen who requests one doesn't seem like a reasonable demand to me.

It would, however, be reasonable even to you, that the affirmative action, illegal alien, and the usurper you have in the White House, according to the Annenberg's stooges' misinformation, that he was at birth Kenyan citizen, but they did NOT tell you, that he was also, and IS still today, - as we speak,- a BRITISH CITIZEN according to the BNA!!!

Would you argue that is not TRUE???

377 posted on 12/08/2009 7:05:40 AM PST by danamco
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To: danamco; curiosity
He released pictures of his COLB, a hard copy of which is just as good for the purposes of proving place of birth in any court of low or any Federal agency.

Danamco, Ms. Un-curios can work as a Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey circus clown.

378 posted on 12/08/2009 10:36:19 AM PST by Red Steel
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To: curiosity

Your patience, focus and diligence stand out on this thread.


379 posted on 12/08/2009 10:38:11 AM PST by tired_old_conservative
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To: Kevmo
That’s a wonderful troll list you’ve got there.

It's the best out in the open troll list on FR.

380 posted on 12/08/2009 10:39:28 AM PST by Red Steel
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To: danamco

A handful of newspaper articles do not constitute legal documentation. So long as the state of Hawaii does not dispute Obama’s claim that he was born there, this stuff is meaningless.


381 posted on 12/08/2009 10:41:34 AM PST by tired_old_conservative
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To: Red Steel

I am sure he could, but don’t need to, is getting the pay check from the basement of the W.H. via Aporn as an Alinsky stooge!!!


382 posted on 12/08/2009 11:23:23 AM PST by danamco
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To: tired_old_conservative; Danae
So long as the state of Hawaii does not dispute Obama’s claim that he was born there, this stuff is meaningless.

You are absolutely right, I have not denied that!

But here is the dirty little secret you ought to know, that your usurper in the W.H. TODAY still is a British citizen, yes, as he himself proclaim a World citizen, because of the BNA he is also a E.U. citizen, hello!!!

383 posted on 12/08/2009 11:31:55 AM PST by danamco
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To: danamco
Egads! Are we a colony again?

Must we have kippers for breakfast?

As to your startling news, it's not dirty, not exactly correct, and the truth actually in it is not a secret to anyone paying attention.

“The Rocky Mountain News did in fact run an online article asserting that Barack Obama holds both American and Kenyan citizenship. The article was incorrect, and the paper removed the item from the article and ran a correction. The paper's editor, John Temple, formally apologized for the error in an Aug. 15, 2007, column. Neither the correction nor the apology has prevented the column from circulating across the Internet as part of the latest set of baseless rumors that Obama is ineligible to run for president.

There was a grain of truth to what the Rocky Mountain News reported, though understanding why requires a brief history lesson.

When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom's dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.’s children:

British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.

In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.

Obama’s British citizenship was short-lived. On Dec. 12, 1963, Kenya formally gained its independence from the United Kingdom. Chapter VI, Section 87 of the Kenyan Constitution specifies that:

1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963...

2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.

As a citizen of the UKC who was born in Kenya, Obama’s father automatically received Kenyan citizenship via subsection (1). So given that Obama qualified for citizen of the UKC status at birth and given that Obama’s father became a Kenyan citizen via subsection (1), it follows that Obama did in fact have Kenyan citizenship after 1963. So The Rocky Mountain News was at least partially correct.

But the paper failed to note that the Kenyan Constitution prohibits dual citizenship for adults. Kenya recognizes dual citizenship for children, but Kenya's Constitution specifies that at age 23, Kenyan citizens who possesses citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship and swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1984."

384 posted on 12/08/2009 11:55:49 AM PST by tired_old_conservative
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To: tired_old_conservative
And by-the-by, I am also aware of Apuzzo’s convoluted opinion as to how Obama could have not lost British citizenship. Since he avoids discussing aspects of statute that do not support his opinion, and since British scholars don't seem to agree, I just don't care.

But if you do wind up saving me from kippers for breakfast, I suppose I would be grateful.

385 posted on 12/08/2009 12:10:37 PM PST by tired_old_conservative
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To: danamco

We deal with liberal posters who cannot think logical, or they are without personal integrity by being selfish becuase Obama wants to bring about material wealth transfers, which they want to benefit.

Case in point. Obama and his supporters have been caught in hundreds of lies if not thousands over the last two years that can be confirmed.

Logic: Obama lies all the time probably everyday, therefore, he should not be believed in anything he says. This same logical should and are applied to Obama’s origins. Obama says he was born in Hawaii but evidence and Obama’s behavior say otherwise. However, the troll posters here say Obama was born in Hawaii without equivocation or deny the issue has any meaning - a complete logical disconnect.


386 posted on 12/08/2009 12:11:29 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel
So let me get this straight. Setting aside the well know quote that politics is the art of the possible for both sides, you've simply decided that everything Obama says is a lie. Therefore, in your mind, that personal opinion constitutes a logical axiom that must discredit the facts of his biography.

As Mr. Spock would say: “Fascinating.”

387 posted on 12/08/2009 12:20:37 PM PST by tired_old_conservative
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To: tired_old_conservative

You pick and choose which “facts” you want to believe about Obama.

Is Obama telling the truth or is it another lie he is perpetrating on the public?

Trying to figure out Obama’s origins is without a doubt a reasonable question.


388 posted on 12/08/2009 12:46:29 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: cycle of discernment
If President B.H. Obama’s bc is ok, why not show it? People might wonder why he refused to do it, but that will be forgotten. He can easily put the whole argument to rest. But he will not. Why not?
389 posted on 12/08/2009 12:52:21 PM PST by apocalypto
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To: Red Steel
Why? He has a document stating he was born in Hawaii, of a type that is commonly issued by states now days. I got one that looked almost exactly like it from my state. Heck, I even know someone adopted from Korea, and her Hawaii COLB says her birth place was...Korea. It's just a database printout of the records the state has. And Hawaii isn't disputing his. Finally, it jibes with the details of his biography.

At this point, no matter what he produces, the Birthers are going to pronounce it a forgery or find some new ridiculous conspiracy line to parrot. Heck, some of you even want his baptism records. Birthers believe this because they want Obama out as President so bad that rationality no longer matters.

390 posted on 12/08/2009 12:57:37 PM PST by tired_old_conservative
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To: tired_old_conservative
Why? He has a document stating he was born in Hawaii, of a type that is commonly issued by states now days. I got one that looked almost exactly like it from my state. Heck, I even know someone adopted from Korea, and her Hawaii COLB says her birth place was...Korea. It's just a database printout of the records the state has. And Hawaii isn't disputing his. Finally, it jibes with the details of his biography.

There's evidence that Obama's Hawaiian COLB is a forgery; that COLB printout is not good enough. His typed long form birth certificate would help alleviate this controversy. And if Obama's COLB was not a forgery, why has he not submitted it to any court as proof? In fact, he has done everything in his power to the contrary. If Obama received his birth certificate because a witness said Obama was born in the state would paint him into another lie, and would make Fukino's past statement supporting Obama very dubious.

At this point, no matter what he produces, the Birthers are going to pronounce it a forgery or find some new ridiculous conspiracy line to parrot. Heck, some of you even want his baptism records. Birthers believe this because they want Obama out as President so bad that rationality no longer matters.

After-Birthers swallow his BS without question. Last year After-Birthers were saying Obama would whip out the proof that he was born in Hawaii which would 'smear' conservatives propelling him to new heights in popularity. I'm still waiting... In the mean time, Obama's poll numbers are falling faster than Jesse Jackson going after a new cooperate shakedown. Obama's poll numbers will be in the 30s by early next year.

391 posted on 12/08/2009 1:36:03 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel
“There's evidence that Obama’s Hawaiian COLB is a forgery; that COLB printout is not good enough.”

There is no evidence, just the wild speculations of people who haven't even seen the real thing. States issue COLBs all the time. I got one for a form three months ago.

“And if Obama’s COLB was not a forgery, why has he not submitted it to any court as proof?”

As so many others have noted, no court has asked him to do this. Do you show up in court to provide documents you haven't been asked for? Especially if you believe you posted a perfectly legal document answering this question some time ago.

“If Obama received his birth certificate because a witness said Obama was born in the state would paint him into another lie, and would make Fukino’s past statement supporting Obama very dubious.”

Whatever it says, the state of Hawaii isn't disputing it because they are satisifed with the conclusion in their database that is printed out upon request, namely that he was born in Hawaii. Absent a time machine, that's going to be hard to meaningfully dispute.

“After-Birthers swallow his BS without question. Last year After-Birthers were saying Obama would whip out the proof that he was born in Hawaii which would ‘smear’ conservatives propelling him to new heights in popularity.”

I never said that. I do think all this carrying on makes conservatives look foolish. If Obama ever thinks about this at all, he probably just thinks something like this: “Wow. I got a COLB and posted it for everyone to see, now they want my grade school and baptism records. What a bunch of loons.”

“Obama’s poll numbers will be in the 30s by early next year.”

That may or may not be true. It's got nothing to do with his birth certificate.

392 posted on 12/08/2009 2:03:07 PM PST by tired_old_conservative
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To: danamco

I know.


393 posted on 12/08/2009 2:06:14 PM PST by Danae (No political party should pick candidates. That's the voters job.)
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To: tired_old_conservative
There is no evidence, just the wild speculations of people who haven't even seen the real thing. States issue COLBs all the time. I got one for a form three months ago.

As so many others have noted, no court has asked him to do this. Do you show up in court to provide documents you haven't been asked for? Especially if you believe you posted a perfectly legal document answering this question some time ago.

No speculation that Obama has not submitted it as proof to any court. The courts have not let the merits of the case go forward and who are hiding behind the appearance of the standing. Leo Donofrio may break the deadlock litigating for the put out of work Chrysler dealerships as they do have standing, which the court will have a hard time avoiding the case.

Anyone can post a document online and say it's an official document doesn't mean it is. Hawaii has refused to comment on Obama's online COLB. Authenticity is best confirmed by the issuing authority and not because supporters vouch for it.

394 posted on 12/08/2009 2:21:47 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: tired_old_conservative
Me: “Obama’s poll numbers will be in the 30s by early next year.”

You: That may or may not be true. It's got nothing to do with his birth certificate.

After-Birthers thought or still think it would effect Obama's poll number if he "discredited conservatives" by showing unequivocal proof about his birth in Hawaii. As of now, he has not proven it.

395 posted on 12/08/2009 2:28:33 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: tired_old_conservative
I never said that. I do think all this carrying on makes conservatives look foolish. If Obama ever thinks about this at all, he probably just thinks something like this: “Wow. I got a COLB and posted it for everyone to see, now they want my grade school and baptism records. What a bunch of loons.”

I never said you did. It appears you identify yourself as an After-birther. What Obama thinks about is how do I fool them today and tomorrow. The real loon occupies the White House.

396 posted on 12/08/2009 2:32:20 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: danamco

Yeah I noticed that. You almost completely write off the State of Washington, add to that the academia - well just FLUSH IT!! I mean, the guy/gal is beyond PATHETIC. But you have to give them some credit for stamina. Something along the lines of “Grover” from Sesame Street. “I might be small but I’m wirey”!! LOL Sheesh CO


397 posted on 12/08/2009 8:39:42 PM PST by Canadian Outrage (Conservatism is to a country what medicine is to a wound - HEALING!!)
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To: tired_old_conservative; Danae
I love kippers, and could eat it everyday, and I don't feel old and tired either!

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1984."

You should be too OLD of side-stepping, but as usual you do, like "your" ballet dancer Rahm Emanuel!!

You forget that after loosing Kenyan citizenship he became a British Commonwealth citizen forever including World citizen from his membership of E.U. Please read it all from Apuzzo's site: http://puzo1.blogspot.com/

398 posted on 12/09/2009 7:01:00 AM PST by danamco
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To: tired_old_conservative; Red Steel
NO, the real question here, old-timer, is: Why is all his public records sealed for you and us NOT to see???

No tap-dancing please!!!

399 posted on 12/09/2009 7:07:43 AM PST by danamco
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To: cycle of discernment
The answer must come soon

What an absurd waste of time and oxygen.

Members of Congress have every right to challenge a President-Elect on this issue. That right is in the Constitution.

When the day, and the venue, to issue this challenge arose these Members were silent. Then, they voted "aye" on a resolution to confirm the election of Barack Hussein Obama as President.

Now, they should shut up. There moment came, and went, on January 6, 2009.

400 posted on 12/09/2009 7:12:18 AM PST by Jim Noble (Hu's the communist?)
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