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Official Request byCongressmen to See Obama's Birth Certificate-Straw Which Breaks This Camel's Back
http://www.thepostemail.com/ ^

Posted on 12/04/2009 4:47:27 PM PST by cycle of discernment

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To: humblegunner
Weak-assed pestilential jackass in need of removal.

How come then that you and your ilks are working against that goal???

251 posted on 12/05/2009 9:19:56 PM PST by danamco
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To: BuckeyeTexan; little jeremiah

As jeremiah said you are lying is a true statement, because this thread is NOT about Orly Taitz, and you pinged your lemmings anyway!!!


252 posted on 12/05/2009 9:26:03 PM PST by danamco
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To: F15Eagle
Or is he really 52, like on his MySpace page, and therefore born in 1957 when Hawaii wasn’t a state. Remember his maternal grandfather wanted and did have him hang around Frank Marshall Davis. And Ann Dunham was 18 (almost 19) in 1961. And FMD said he and his wife had a three-way with a 14-year-old girl. Suppose that 14-year-old was Ann Dunham and BO was born in 1957 instead of 1961 when she was 18.

Well it that were the case, and he was born in a Canadian home for unwed mothers, or anywhere else outside the US, then he would have been a citizen at birth, but by statute and thus not natural (child of unwed citizen mother who had lived in the US for over a year born outside the US, the rules are different for unwed vs. one foreign parent, see 8 USC 1409),

253 posted on 12/05/2009 9:53:07 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato

And it would destroy the myth of BO, if that’s what it is. And that might be even more damaging.

Dunno. But there’s something he doesn’t want us to know.

That much is obvious. Can’t imagine what it is.


254 posted on 12/05/2009 10:01:58 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, John 11:25, 14:6, 1 Tim 2:5, John 3:17-18, John 20:31, 1 John 5:13, John 6:69)
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To: cycle of discernment

There is only one question that needs to be asked of Obama....by someone, by ANYone....be it presshole or innocent bystander.

That question is this:

Why did you seal your records by executive order, on your first official day of office: (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ExecutiveOrderPresidentialRecords/)?

Ok. Maybe two questions...second question:

What are you so desperately trying to hide?

And yet, the leftist pressholes at NBC, ABC and CBS are completely UNcurious (funny how that UN sorta creeps into conversations) about the “why”.....

even AFTER they mercilously persued George W. Bush for EIGHT FRIGGIN YEARS (nine, if you rightly include 2000, the campaign year) about any and everything in his past life, including his medical, dental, military and other records.

Ok...I admit to wanting a third question answered (why not, what the hell?). Why does Michelle wear auto belt-accessories as part of her daily wardrobe and does she wear it also to be....oh...nevermind..I don’t wanna know after all.


255 posted on 12/05/2009 10:02:32 PM PST by XenaLee (O)
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To: cycle of discernment
i’m starting to think this the true scenario..born in Hawaii before Hawaii was a state..older than he claims

There's plenty of evidence that she was not in Hawaii very much than a year before BHO Jr was born.

Besides, while Hawaii wasn't a state, it was part of the United States, and people born there were citizens, natural born citizens, if they are born to unwed citizen mothers, or have an acknowledged citizen father was well. Just like Barry Goldwater, who was born in Arizona before it was a state.

A more likely scenario would be born in an unwed mother's home, or a hospital serving one, perhaps in Canada. But then why bother with a fake Hawaiian, rather than fake Washington state, birth?

Unless that was somehow easier? The reason for the move to Hawaii was never really clear, to me at least.

256 posted on 12/05/2009 10:05:37 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: RowdyFFC
ObaMao’s birth certificate is irrelevant to me. He was born a British subject and a citizen of Kenya

Not completely irrelevant. After all, what proves who his father was? Perhaps, that's why he can't have an official copy, even of the CoLB, put into record in a court of law. Once it's legally proven that his father was BHO, resident and citizen of Kenya... well it's all over but the Supreme Court ruling, the shouting, riots, pillaging and looting.

257 posted on 12/05/2009 10:24:42 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: BuckeyeTexan; LucyT

Bravo, first time you said something positive!!!


258 posted on 12/05/2009 10:57:17 PM PST by danamco
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To: danamco
How come then that you and your ilks are working against that goal???

I think most of my "ilks" just think Taitz is a nut.

Nothing more sinister than that.

259 posted on 12/06/2009 3:24:25 AM PST by humblegunner (™)
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To: null and void
Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Or just sit back and laugh at the incompetence of Orly Taitz.

260 posted on 12/06/2009 3:41:05 AM PST by humblegunner (™)
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To: OafOfOffice; curiosity
Won't get you a passport after 9/11.

Not true. I got my passport in 2004 with a COLB. Curiosity is right. A COLB is just as valid as the long form.
261 posted on 12/06/2009 4:40:32 AM PST by LanaTurnerOverdrive ("I've done a few things in my life I'm not proud of, and the things I am proud of are disgusting.")
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To: LanaTurnerOverdrive

Of course, no one has actually seen a COLB of 0bama’s. An image resembling same was posted on the internet. No actual person has held a paper one in hand or view the paper one with eyeballs.


262 posted on 12/06/2009 7:47:49 AM PST by little jeremiah (Asato Ma Sad Gamaya Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya)
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To: XenaLee

The EO that you reference didn’t seal Obama’s personal records. The EO relates to presidential records held in the national archives.


263 posted on 12/06/2009 8:10:22 AM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Integrity, Honesty, Character, & Loyalty still matter)
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To: danamco

Pay attention.

My ping was not a “whack-a-mole” ping. It was just a regular old ping. And in that ping I presented two issues for discussion.

As usual, those disrupting the discussion on the thread are birthers.


264 posted on 12/06/2009 8:17:51 AM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Integrity, Honesty, Character, & Loyalty still matter)
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To: null and void
An image of a possibly forged document posted on the internet by an accused’s friends suffices as evidence?

No, but a hard copy of a COLB containing the state seal and registrar's signature does.

265 posted on 12/06/2009 10:14:18 AM PST by curiosity
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To: Red Steel
But it would be easy to prove Obama as a fraud that he could not spin his rear-end out of if he was not born in a Hawaiian hospital.

Last time I checked, being born in the hopstial is not a presidential eligibility requirement.

So even in the highly unlikely event that the long form says it was a home birth, I really don't see why that matters.

What's that hospital's name? Queens or was that Kapi'olani? LoL!

Obama and every single member of his family have consistently said he was born in Kapi'olani.

The fact that a UPI reporter and student newspaper got their facts wrong and said it was Queens doesn't mean anything.

266 posted on 12/06/2009 10:19:04 AM PST by curiosity
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To: humblegunner; danamco
I think most of my "ilks" just think Taitz is a nut.

This ilk certainly does. :)

267 posted on 12/06/2009 10:47:18 AM PST by EveningStar
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To: curiosity
No, but a hard copy of a COLB containing the state seal and registrar's signature does.

Good. Why won't he cough up the $10 it would take to get one?

Hint: When the only people who claim to have had a copy in their hands have absolutely no experience in detecting counterfeit documents AND they are ardent 0bama supporters, it does not constitute adequate "proof" to any rational observer.

You, I am sure, are totally convinced. Or at least you are paid to say you are...

268 posted on 12/06/2009 10:59:14 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 319 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: narses

My guess is that the term “natural born citizen” is not defined in the Constitution because the definition was commonly understood. How likely is it that a definition used by a Swiss philosopher, who’s work was not readily available to the average guy in Colonial America, would trump the British definition that the colonists had lived with? Not likely IMHO, particularly since there doesn’t seem to be much contemporaneous discussion of the issue that has been passed down to us.


269 posted on 12/06/2009 11:01:10 AM PST by lucysmom
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To: little jeremiah
No actual person has held a paper one in hand or view the paper one with eyeballs.

So much misinformation. Although Factcheck.org erroneously refers to his COLB as his BC, the fact remains that it has been examined by actual human hands and eyeballs:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/print_born_in_the_usa.html

Enjoy
270 posted on 12/06/2009 11:03:05 AM PST by LanaTurnerOverdrive ("I've done a few things in my life I'm not proud of, and the things I am proud of are disgusting.")
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To: LanaTurnerOverdrive
the fact remains that it something has been examined by actual human low-life, bed-wetting, hippy, ball-gargling Obama rumpswabs hands and eyeballs

Much better.
271 posted on 12/06/2009 11:13:42 AM PST by Electric Graffiti (Yonder stands your orphan with his gun)
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To: null and void
Good. Why won't he cough up the $10 it would take to get one?

He did, and he had it photographed, and he made those photographs publicly available. I'm not sure what else you would have him do, short of him sending you a personal copy.

Hint: When the only people who claim to have had a copy in their hands have absolutely no experience in detecting counterfeit documents AND they are ardent 0bama supporters, it does not constitute adequate "proof" to any rational observer.

Perhaps, but when the director of public health for the state of Hawaii officially verifies that the state vital record also shows he was born in Hawaii, I don't think there's much room for any rational person to doubt it.

272 posted on 12/06/2009 11:57:23 AM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity
Last time I checked, being born in the hopstial is not a presidential eligibility requirement.

You have a hard time following logic. If Obama wasn't born in a Hawaiian hospital also means no doctor delivered him. That would lead to the big question where was Obama born? Then it was most likely a witness signed an affidavit to the state of Hawaii saying he/she saw his birth in the state.

Obama and every single member of his family have consistently said he was born in Kapi'olani.

Reports have said he was born in Queens hospital.

The fact that a UPI reporter and student newspaper got their facts wrong and said it was Queens doesn't mean anything.

The facts is you don't have the facts because Obama has kept the facts from you.

273 posted on 12/06/2009 12:00:00 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: El Gato
However it would wound Obama pretty badly, since even '61 a "home birth" would be quite unusual.

I don't see why anyone would care whether he was born in a hospital or at home. Why do you think it would wound him?

274 posted on 12/06/2009 12:03:16 PM PST by curiosity
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To: Red Steel
If Obama wasn't born in a Hawaiian hospital also means no doctor delivered him. That would lead to the big question where was Obama born? Then it was most likely a witness signed an affidavit to the state of Hawaii saying he/she saw his birth in the state.

So?

Reports have said he was born in Queens hospital.

So? Are you implying that the UPI reporters and students writing for school papers are infallible?

275 posted on 12/06/2009 12:06:00 PM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity
OBAMA released them? Source please.

He has NEVER said that the documents shown on the internet (Hey, it's on the internet-it must be true!) are authentic.

Perhaps, but when the director of public health for the state of Hawaii officially verifies that the state vital record also shows he was born in Hawaii, I don't think there's much room for any rational person to doubt it.

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawai'i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai'i..."

The problem being that the same department can also verify that Chiang Kai-Shek was born in Hawaii, as it can also do for any number of foreign born children adopted by Hawaiians.

I guess it depends on your definition of what the word "in" is.

276 posted on 12/06/2009 12:15:58 PM PST by null and void (We are now in day 319 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: curiosity
So?

So? This is so --> If Obama's birth certificate was obtained by witness affidavit, the birth witness very likely lied to the state of Hawaii. Obama could NOT have been born in Kapi'olani hospital, now could he?

So? Are you implying that the UPI reporters and students writing for school papers are infallible?

You pick and choose what the 'facts' are you want to believe in ... followed your "infallible" logic.

Fact: We do not know for a fact if Obama was born in Hawaii.

277 posted on 12/06/2009 12:20:01 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: null and void
He has NEVER said that the documents shown on the internet (Hey, it's on the internet-it must be true!) are authentic.

Yup. Obama is keeping the plausible deniability card in his hip pocket if that COLB blows up in his face. I don't think he will be able to get away with it since an Obama campaign spokesman Ben Labolt told the LA Times that it was his COLB, but I'm sure he would try.

278 posted on 12/06/2009 12:29:44 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: curiosity
I don't see why anyone would care whether he was born in a hospital or at home. Why do you think it would wound him?

It would raise qustions of why would he have concealed a BC that doesn't show anything "bad" or disqualifying. It would increase the chance that the original was fraudulently filed, since as I said, a home birth to the daughter of his grandparents would have been highly unusual in '61, more so in some ways that in the late 60s or the 70s. Thus it would cast more suspicion, and inquiry into the certificate. If it was signed only by his (white) Grandmother, and his mothers signature turns out not to match other signatures of hers, well then it would be highly likely that it was fraudulently obtained.

279 posted on 12/06/2009 12:35:02 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato

You do have a point there, I stand corrected.


280 posted on 12/06/2009 12:41:31 PM PST by RowdyFFC (The opinion of a wise Welshtino woman...)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

The EO that you reference didn’t seal Obama’s personal records. The EO relates to presidential records held in the national archives.

263 posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:10:22 AM by BuckeyeTexan

Actually what he did was make HIMSELF the keeper of the archives and gave himself permission to keep or release whatever he wants to, period.

You might also want to look at Section 3 Claim of Executive Privilege of Incumbent President. ObaMao’s birt certificate is an ARCHIVED document. Why do you think they sealed the document(s).


281 posted on 12/06/2009 1:02:37 PM PST by RowdyFFC (The opinion of a wise Welshtino woman...)
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To: lucysmom
My guess is that the term “natural born citizen” is not defined in the Constitution because the definition was commonly understood. How likely is it that a definition used by a Swiss philosopher, who’s work was not readily available to the average guy in Colonial America, would trump the British definition that the colonists had lived with? Not likely IMHO, particularly since there doesn’t seem to be much contemporaneous discussion of the issue that has been passed down to us.

Vattel was far from obscure to the well educated men who wrote the Constitution.

Delegates to the First and Second Continental Congress, which produced the Declaration of Independence, often consulted The Law of Nations, as a reference for their discussions. One important reason why the delegates chose to meet in Carpenters Hall, was that the building also housed the Library Company of Philadelphia. The librarian reported that Vattel was one of the main sources consulted by the delegates during the First Continental Congress, which met from Sept. 5 to Oct. 26, 1774.

Charles W.F. Dumas, an ardent supporter of the American cause, printed an edition of The Law of Nations in 1774, with his own notes illustrating how the book applied to the American situation. In 1770, Dumas had met Franklin in Holland, and was one of Franklin's key collaborators in his European diplomacy. He sent three copies to Franklin, instructing him to send one to Harvard University, and to put one in the Philadelphia library. Franklin sent Dumas a letter, Dec. 9, 1775, thanking him for the gift. Franklin stated, "I am much obliged by the kind present you have made us of your edition of Vattel. It came to us in good season, when the circumstances of a rising state make it necessary frequently to consult the law of nations. Accordingly, that copy which I kept, has been continually in the hands of the members of our congress, now sitting ... ." And that was just the most recent English translation. Franklin, and many of the other founders, would not have needed it, since they could read the original French.

282 posted on 12/06/2009 1:24:00 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: curiosity
He did, and he had it photographed, and he made those photographs publicly available. I'm not sure what else you would have him do, short of him sending you a personal copy.

Having it presented before a court of law, rather than spending mucho dinero keeping courts from getting to "evidence". Preferably a copy that never went through his hands, but rather directly to the court. A certified copy of the long form would be better, since it contains information not on the CoLB, such as parent's birthplaces, witness to the birth, etc. All of which may bear on the question of "natural born".

283 posted on 12/06/2009 1:29:38 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: RowdyFFC

Obama’s BC is on file in Hawaii not in the national archives at NARA. To date an exhaustive search of documents on file at NARA does not indicate that Obama’s BC is archived there, sealed or otherwise. If it were, you’d be able to find an index at NARA pointing to its existence.

That EO is irrelevant with regard to Obama’s BC.


284 posted on 12/06/2009 1:34:55 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Integrity, Honesty, Character, & Loyalty still matter)
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To: lucysmom

I think perhaps you are not giving colonial americans
enough credit, most of them would have been familiar with
English common law, the land owners with English land laws
and the merchants (which would include most of the land
owners shipping their produce for export) would certainly
have been conversant with the Laws of Nations to conduct
their business as maritime enterprises. They could not
afford to lose ships and crews/cargos though ignorance
of the laws.


285 posted on 12/06/2009 1:42:44 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

Guess you don’t understand ‘and what other such agencies’ means...


286 posted on 12/06/2009 1:42:50 PM PST by RowdyFFC (The opinion of a wise Welshtino woman...)
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To: RowdyFFC
Here you go. Read it in full. It has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the release of presidential records FROM "other such agencies."

Executive Order -- Presidential Records

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by incumbent and former Presidents in connection with the release of Presidential records by the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) pursuant to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1.  Definitions.  For purposes of this order:

(a)  "Archivist" refers to the Archivist of the United States or his designee.

(b)  "NARA" refers to the National Archives and Records Administration.

(c)  "Presidential Records Act" refers to the Presidential Records Act, 44 U.S.C. 2201-2207.

(d)  "NARA regulations" refers to the NARA regulations implementing the Presidential Records Act, 36 C.F.R. Part 1270.

(e)  "Presidential records" refers to those documentary materials maintained by NARA pursuant to the Presidential Records Act, including Vice Presidential records.

(f)  "Former President" refers to the former President during whose term or terms of office particular Presidential records were created.

(g)  A "substantial question of executive privilege" exists if NARA's disclosure of Presidential records might impair national security (including the conduct of foreign relations), law enforcement, or the deliberative processes of the executive branch.

(h)  A "final court order" is a court order from which no appeal may be taken.

Sec. 2.  Notice of Intent to Disclose Presidential Records. 

(a)  When the Archivist provides notice to the incumbent and former Presidents of his intent to disclose Presidential records pursuant to section 1270.46 of the NARA regulations, the Archivist, using any guidelines provided by the incumbent and former Presidents, shall identify any specific materials, the disclosure of which he believes may raise a substantial question of executive privilege.  However, nothing in this order is intended to affect the right of the incumbent or former Presidents to invoke executive privilege with respect to materials not identified by the Archivist.  Copies of the notice for the incumbent President shall be delivered to the President (through the Counsel to the President) and the Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel).  The copy of the notice for the former President shall be delivered to the former President or his designated representative.

(b)  Upon the passage of 30 days after receipt by the incumbent and former Presidents of a notice of intent to disclose Presidential records, the Archivist may disclose the records covered by the notice, unless during that time period the Archivist has received a claim of executive privilege by the incumbent or former President or the Archivist has been instructed by the incumbent President or his designee to extend the time period for a time certain and with reason for the extension of time provided in the notice.  If a shorter period of time is required under the circumstances set forth in section 1270.44 of the NARA regulations, the Archivist shall so indicate in the notice.

Sec. 3.  Claim of Executive Privilege by Incumbent President. 

(a)  Upon receipt of a notice of intent to disclose Presidential records, the Attorney General (directly or through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel) and the Counsel to the President shall review as they deem appropriate the records covered by the notice and consult with each other, the Archivist, and such other executive agencies as they deem appropriate concerning whether invocation of executive privilege is justified.

(b)  The Attorney General and the Counsel to the President, in the exercise of their discretion and after appropriate review and consultation under subsection (a) of this section, may jointly determine that invocation of executive privilege is not justified.  The Archivist shall be notified promptly of any such determination.

(c)  If either the Attorney General or the Counsel to the President believes that the circumstances justify invocation of executive privilege, the issue shall be presented to the President by the Counsel to the President and the Attorney General.

(d)  If the President decides to invoke executive privilege, the Counsel to the President shall notify the former President, the Archivist, and the Attorney General in writing of the claim of privilege and the specific Presidential records to which it relates.  After receiving such notice, the Archivist shall not disclose the privileged records unless directed to do so by an incumbent President or by a final court order.

Sec. 4.  Claim of Executive Privilege by Former President.

(a)  Upon receipt of a claim of executive privilege by a living former President, the Archivist shall consult with the Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel), the Counsel to the President, and such other executive agencies as the Archivist deems appropriate concerning the Archivist's determination as to whether to honor the former President's claim of privilege or instead to disclose the Presidential records notwithstanding the claim of privilege.  Any determination under section 3 of this order that executive privilege shall not be invoked by the incumbent President shall not prejudice the Archivist's determination with respect to the former President's claim of privilege.

(b)  In making the determination referred to in subsection (a) of this section, the Archivist shall abide by any instructions given him by the incumbent President or his designee unless otherwise directed by a final court order.  The Archivist shall notify the incumbent and former Presidents of his determination at least 30 days prior to disclosure of the Presidential records, unless a shorter time period is required in the circumstances set forth in section 1270.44 of the NARA regulations.  Copies of the notice for the incumbent President shall be delivered to the President (through the Counsel to the President) and the Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel).  The copy of the notice for the former President shall be delivered to the former President or his designated representative.

Sec. 5.  General Provisions. 

(a)  Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

 (i)   authority granted by law to a department or agency, or the head thereof; or

 (ii)  functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budget, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b)  This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c)  This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

BARACK OBAMA

THE WHITE HOUSE,     January 21, 2009

287 posted on 12/06/2009 2:17:50 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Integrity, Honesty, Character, & Loyalty still matter)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

I already read it...the whole thing actually...and YOU still don’t get what he means by other agencies and archived documents.


288 posted on 12/06/2009 2:26:33 PM PST by RowdyFFC (The opinion of a wise Welshtino woman...)
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To: kevao

Very perceptive FRiend! :)


289 posted on 12/06/2009 2:26:38 PM PST by libs_kma (If you RAM it down our throats in 2009, we're going to SHOVE it up your "donkey" in 2010!!!!!)
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To: LanaTurnerOverdrive; Electric Graffiti

Actually, the truthful and correct way to say it is:

Some kind of paper which ostensibly resembles a HI COLB was handled at some point after or during its manufacture [could be during, since it underwent some transmogrifications] by some kind of hands. Exactly *whose* hands held it and *whose* eyeballs viewed it, and what exactly *it* was, and from it came, remain unknown.

If you accept Factcheck as truthful and trustworthy, you’re playing for the wrong team.


290 posted on 12/06/2009 2:31:41 PM PST by little jeremiah (Asato Ma Sad Gamaya Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya)
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To: RowdyFFC

The EO says that he will consult with the Archivist (of NARA), the Attorney General (of the U.S.) and “other such executive agencies” in order to determine whether or not invoking executive privilege is appropriate. It doesn’t say that those presidential records reside at those “other such agencies.”

Furthermore, it refers to executive agencies, meaning those under federal authority, not state agencies such as the Hawaii Department of Health, which is the only agency that maintains a copy of Obama’s BC.

Additionally, the Presidential Records Act dictates what presidential records are archived at NARA. It doesn’t dictate what records, presidential or otherwise, are archived by state agencies.

It is you who doesn’t understand the meaning of “other such agencies” or “archived.” Apparently you also don’t understand the nature of federal versus state agencies.


291 posted on 12/06/2009 2:49:25 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Integrity, Honesty, Character, & Loyalty still matter)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

Sure I understand it. And evidently YOU don’t. Many more learned people than you discovered what Obama did the first day of office.


292 posted on 12/06/2009 2:53:33 PM PST by RowdyFFC (The opinion of a wise Welshtino woman...)
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To: RowdyFFC

It’s the ignorance of statements like that in the face of clear and convincing evidence of proof disputing your claims that destroys the credibility of birthers.


293 posted on 12/06/2009 2:59:42 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Integrity, Honesty, Character, & Loyalty still matter)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

Well, NO, it’s the clear evidence of ObaMao worshippers like you that have no credibility for those of us who believe in upholding the US Constitution.

ObaMao has spent millions hiding his birth certificate. He knows he’s not constitutionally eligible, and he WILL use the power he gave himself in his own executive order to keep it quashed through his buddy Holder in the DOJ.


294 posted on 12/06/2009 3:03:56 PM PST by RowdyFFC (The opinion of a wise Welshtino woman...)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

By the way, there guys over on the CBS comments post that would be patting your ego on the back...


295 posted on 12/06/2009 3:23:02 PM PST by RowdyFFC (The opinion of a wise Welshtino woman...)
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To: Red Steel

........It’s going to have to be forced out of the state of Hawaii. ......

An easier solution is to bribe someone


296 posted on 12/06/2009 3:31:38 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Lukenbach Texas is barely there)
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To: RowdyFFC; BuckeyeTexan
There have been three Executive Orders signed by the Presidents beginning with President Reagan on Jan 16, 1989 regarding Presidential Records.

It maybe interesting to display the three with links to them in an effort to understand their meanings.

President Reagan

Executive Order 12667--Presidential Records

Source: The provisions of Executive Order 12667 of Jan. 16, 1989, appear at 54 FR 3403, unless otherwise noted.

By virtue of the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of Executive privilege by incumbent and former Presidents in connection with the release of Presidential records by the National Archives and Records Administration pursuant to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Definitions. For purposes of this Order:
(a) "Archivist" refers to the Archivist of the United States or his designee.
(b) "NARA" refers to the National Archives and Records Administration.
(c) "Presidential Records Act" refers to the Presidential Records Act of 1978 (Pub. L. No. 95-591, 92 Stat. 2523-27, as amended by Pub. L. No. 98-497, 98 Stat. 2287), codified at 44 U.S.C. 2201-2207.
(d) "NARA regulations" refers to the NARA regulations implementing the Presidential Records Act. 53 Fed. Reg. 50404 (1988), codified at 36 C.F.R. Part 1270.
(e) "Presidential records" refers to those documentary materials maintained by NARA pursuant to the Presidential Records Act and the NARA regulations.
(f) "Former President" refers to the former President during whose term or terms of office particular Presidential records were created.
(g) A "substantial question of Executive privilege" exists if NARA's disclosure of Presidential records might impair the national security (including the conduct of foreign relations), law enforcement, or the deliberative processes of the Executive branch.
(h) A "final court order" is a court order from which no appeal may be taken.

Sec. 2. Notice of Intent to Disclose Presidential Records.
(a) When the Archivist provides notice to the incumbent and former Presidents of his intent to disclose Presidential records pursuant to section 1270.46 of the NARA regulations, the Archivist, utilizing any guidelines provided by the incumbent and former Presidents, shall identify any specific materials, the disclosure of which he believes may raise a substantial question of Executive privilege. However, nothing in this Order is intended to affect the right of the incumbent or former Presidents to invoke Executive privilege with respect to materials not identified by the Archivist. Copies of the notice for the incumbent President shall be delivered to the President (through the Counsel to the President) and the Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel). The copy of the notice for the former President shall be delivered to the former President or his designated representative.
(b) Upon the passage of 30 days after receipt by the incumbent and former Presidents of a notice of intent to disclose Presidential records, the Archivist may disclose the records covered by the notice, unless during that time period the Archivist has received a claim of Executive privilege by the incumbent or former President or the Archivist has been instructed by the incumbent President or his designee to extend the time period. If a shorter time period is required under the circumstances set forth in section 1270.44 of the NARA regulations, the Archivist shall so indicate in the notice.

Sec. 3. Claim of Executive Privilege by Incumbent President.
(a) Upon receipt of a notice of intent to disclose Presidential records, the Attorney General (directly or through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel) and the Counsel to the President shall review as they deem appropriate the records covered by the notice and consult with each other, the Archivist, and such other Federal agencies as they deem appropriate concerning whether invocation of Executive privilege is justified.
(b) The Attorney General and the Counsel to the President, in the exercise of their discretion and after appropriate review and consultation under subsection (a) of this section, may jointly determine that invocation of Executive privilege is not justified. The Archivist shall be promptly notified of any such determination.
(c) If after appropriate review and consultation under subsection (a) of this section, either the Attorney General or the Counsel to the President believes that the circumstances justify invocation of Executive privilege, the issue shall be presented to the President by the Counsel to the President and the Attorney General.
(d) If the President decides to invoke Executive privilege, the Counsel to the President shall notify the former President, the Archivist, and the Attorney General in writing of the claim of privilege and the specific Presidential records to which it relates. After receiving such notice, the Archivist shall not disclose the privileged records unless directed to do so by an incumbent President or by a final court order.

Sec. 4. Claim of Executive Privilege by Former President.
(a) Upon receipt of a claim of Executive privilege by a former President, the Archivist shall consult with the Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel), the Counsel to the President, and such other Federal agencies as he deems appropriate concerning the Archivist's determination as to whether to honor the former President's claim of privilege or instead to disclose the Presidential records notwithstanding the claim of privilege. Any determination under section 3 of this Order that Executive privilege shall not be invoked by the incumbent President shall not prejudice the Archivist's determination with respect to the former President's claim of privilege.
(b) In making the determination referred to in subsection (a) of this section, the Archivist shall abide by any instructions given him by the incumbent President or his designee unless otherwise directed by a final court order. The Archivist shall notify the incumbent and former Presidents of his determination at least 30 days prior to disclosure of the Presidential records, unless a shorter time period is required in the circumstances set forth in section 1270.44 of the NARA regulations. Copies of the notice for the incumbent President shall be delivered to the President (through the Counsel the President) and the Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel). The copy of the notice for the former President shall be delivered to the former President or his designated representative.

Sec. 5. Judicial Review. This Order is intended only to improve the internal management of the Executive branch and is not intended to create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law by a party against the United States, its agencies, its officers, or any person.



FAS | Secrecy | November 2001 News ||| Index | Search | Join FAS


FAS Note: See related White House correspondence concerning the withholding of Reagan Administration records here.

George W Bush EO 13233 revoking President Reagan's EO...

EXECUTIVE ORDER 13233

FURTHER IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS ACT

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures implementing section 2204 of title 44 of the United States Code with respect to constitutionally based privileges, including those that apply to Presidential records reflecting military, diplomatic, or national security secrets, Presidential communications, legal advice, legal work, or the deliberative processes of the President and the President's advisors, and to do so in a manner consistent with the Supreme Court's decisions in Nixon v. Administrator of General Services, 433 U.S. 425 (1977), and other cases, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Definitions.

For purposes of this order:

(a) "Archivist" refers to the Archivist of the United States or his designee.

(b) "Presidential records" refers to those documentary materials maintained by the National Archives and Records Administration pursuant to the Presidential Records Act, 44 U.S.C. 2201-2207.

(c) "Former President" refers to the former President during whose term or terms of office particular Presidential records were created.

Sec. 2. Constitutional and Legal Background.

(a) For a period not to exceed 12 years after the conclusion of a Presidency, the Archivist administers records in accordance with the limitations on access imposed by section 2204 of title 44. After expiration of that period, section 2204(c) of title 44 directs that the Archivist administer Presidential records in accordance with section 552 of title 5, the Freedom of Information Act, including by withholding, as appropriate, records subject to exemptions (b)(1), (b)(2), (b)(3), (b)(4), (b)(6), (b)(7), (b)(8), and (b)(9) of section 552. Section 2204(c)(1) of title 44 provides that exemption (b)(5) of section 552 is not available to the Archivist as a basis for withholding records, but section 2204(c)(2) recognizes that the former President or the incumbent President may assert any constitutionally based privileges, including those ordinarily encompassed within exemption (b)(5) of section 552. The President's constitutionally based privileges subsume privileges for records that reflect: military, diplomatic, or national security secrets (the state secrets privilege); communications of the President or his advisors (the presidential communications privilege); legal advice or legal work (the attorney-client or attorney work product privileges); and the deliberative processes of the President or his advisors (the deliberative process privilege).

(b) In Nixon v. Administrator of General Services, the Supreme Court set forth the constitutional basis for the President's privileges for confidential communications: "Unless [the President] can give his advisers some assurance of confidentiality, a President could not expect to receive the full and frank submissions of facts and opinions upon which effective discharge of his duties depends." 433 U.S. at 448-49. The Court cited the precedent of the Constitutional Convention, the records of which were "sealed for more than 30 years after the Convention." Id. at 447 n.11. Based on those precedents and principles, the Court ruled that constitutionally based privileges available to a President "survive[] the individual President's tenure." Id. at 449. The Court also held that a former President, although no longer a Government official, may assert constitutionally based privileges with respect to his Administration's Presidential records, and expressly rejected the argument that "only an incumbent President can assert the privilege of the Presidency." Id. at 448.

(c) The Supreme Court has held that a party seeking to overcome the constitutionally based privileges that apply to Presidential records must establish at least a "demonstrated, specific need" for particular records, a standard that turns on the nature of the proceeding and the importance of the information to that proceeding. See United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. 683, 713 (1974). Notwithstanding the constitutionally based privileges that apply to Presidential records, many former Presidents have authorized access, after what they considered an appropriate period of repose, to those records or categories of records (including otherwise privileged records) to which the former Presidents or their representatives in their discretion decided to authorize access. See Nixon v. Administrator of General Services, 433 U.S. at 450-51.

Sec. 3. Procedure for Administering Privileged Presidential Records.

Consistent with the requirements of the Constitution and the Presidential Records Act, the Archivist shall administer Presidential records under section 2204(c) of title 44 in the following manner:

(a) At an appropriate time after the Archivist receives a request for access to Presidential records under section 2204(c)(1), the Archivist shall provide notice to the former President and the incumbent President and, as soon as practicable, shall provide the former President and the incumbent President copies of any records that the former President and the incumbent President request to review.

(b) After receiving the records he requests, the former President shall review those records as expeditiously as possible, and for no longer than 90 days for requests that are not unduly burdensome. The Archivist shall not permit access to the records by a requester during this period of review or when requested by the former President to extend the time for review.

(c) After review of the records in question, or of any other potentially privileged records reviewed by the former President, the former President shall indicate to the Archivist whether the former President requests withholding of or authorizes access to any privileged records.

(d) Concurrent with or after the former President's review of the records, the incumbent President or his designee may also review the records in question, or may utilize whatever other procedures the incumbent President deems appropriate to decide whether to concur in the former President's decision to request withholding of or authorize access to the records.

Sec. 4. Concurrence by Incumbent President.

Absent compelling circumstances, the incumbent President will concur in the privilege decision of the former President in response to a request for access under section 2204(c)(1). When the incumbent President concurs in the decision of the former President to request withholding of records within the scope of a constitutionally based privilege, the incumbent President will support that privilege claim in any forum in which the privilege claim is challenged.

Sec. 5. Incumbent President's Right to Obtain Access.

This order does not expand or limit the incumbent President's right to obtain access to the records of a former President pursuant to section 2205(2)(B).

Sec. 6. Right of Congress and Courts to Obtain Access.

This order does not expand or limit the rights of a court, House of Congress, or authorized committee or subcommittee of Congress to obtain access to the records of a former President pursuant to section 2205(2)(A) or section 2205(2)(C). With respect to such requests, the former President shall review the records in question and, within 21 days of receiving notice from the Archivist, indicate to the Archivist his decision with respect to any privilege. The incumbent President shall indicate his decision with respect to any privilege within 21 days after the former President has indicated his decision. Those periods may be extended by the former President or the incumbent President for requests that are burdensome. The Archivist shall not permit access to the records unless and until the incumbent President advises the Archivist that the former President and the incumbent President agree to authorize access to the records or until so ordered by a final and nonappealable court order.

Sec. 7. No Effect on Right to Withhold Records.

This order does not limit the former President's or the incumbent President's right to withhold records on any ground supplied by the Constitution, statute, or regulation.

Sec. 8. Withholding of Privileged Records During 12-Year Period.

In the period not to exceed 12 years after the conclusion of a Presidency during which section 2204(a) and section 2204(b) of title 44 apply, a former President or the incumbent President may request withholding of any privileged records not already protected from disclosure under section 2204. If the former President or the incumbent President so requests, the Archivist shall not permit access to any such privileged records unless and until the incumbent President advises the Archivist that the former President and the incumbent President agree to authorize access to the records or until so ordered by a final and nonappealable court order.

Sec. 9. Establishment of Procedures.

This order is not intended to indicate whether and under what circumstances a former President should assert or waive any privilege. The order is intended to establish procedures for former and incumbent Presidents to make privilege determinations.

Sec. 10. Designation of Representative.

The former President may designate a representative (or series or group of alternative representatives, as the former President in his discretion may determine) to act on his behalf for purposes of the Presidential Records Act and this order. Upon the death or disability of a former President, the former President's designated representative shall act on his behalf for purposes of the Act and this order, including with respect to the assertion of constitutionally based privileges. In the absence of any designated representative after the former President's death or disability, the family of the former President may designate a representative (or series or group of alternative representatives, as they in their discretion may determine) to act on the former President's behalf for purposes of the Act and this order, including with respect to the assertion of constitutionally based privileges.

Sec. 11. Vice Presidential Records.

(a) Pursuant to section 2207 of title 44 of the United States Code, the Presidential Records Act applies to the executive records of the Vice President. Subject to subsections (b) and (c), this order shall also apply with respect to any such records that are subject to any constitutionally based privilege that the former Vice President may be entitled to invoke, but in the administration of this order with respect to such records, references in this order to a former President shall be deemed also to be references to the relevant former Vice President.

(b) Subsection (a) shall not be deemed to authorize a Vice President or former Vice President to invoke any constitutional privilege of a President or former President except as authorized by that President or former President.

(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to grant, limit, or otherwise affect any privilege of a President, Vice President, former President, or former Vice President.

Sec. 12. Judicial Review.

This order is intended to improve the internal management of the executive branch and is not intended to create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law by a party, other than a former President or his designated representative, against the United States, its agencies, its officers, or any person.

Sec. 13. Revocation.

Executive Order 12667 of January 18, 1989, is revoked.

THE WHITE HOUSE,
November 1, 2001.


President Obama's EO 14389 revoking President Bush EO.

Executive Order -- Presidential Records

Executive Order -- Presidential Records

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by incumbent and former Presidents in connection with the release of Presidential records by the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) pursuant to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1.  Definitions.  For purposes of this order:

(a)  "Archivist" refers to the Archivist of the United States or his designee.

(b)  "NARA" refers to the National Archives and Records Administration.

(c)  "Presidential Records Act" refers to the Presidential Records Act, 44 U.S.C. 2201-2207.

(d)  "NARA regulations" refers to the NARA regulations implementing the Presidential Records Act, 36 C.F.R. Part 1270.

(e)  "Presidential records" refers to those documentary materials maintained by NARA pursuant to the Presidential Records Act, including Vice Presidential records.

(f)  "Former President" refers to the former President during whose term or terms of office particular Presidential records were created.

(g)  A "substantial question of executive privilege" exists if NARA's disclosure of Presidential records might impair national security (including the conduct of foreign relations), law enforcement, or the deliberative processes of the executive branch.

(h)  A "final court order" is a court order from which no appeal may be taken.

Sec. 2.  Notice of Intent to Disclose Presidential Records. 

(a)  When the Archivist provides notice to the incumbent and former Presidents of his intent to disclose Presidential records pursuant to section 1270.46 of the NARA regulations, the Archivist, using any guidelines provided by the incumbent and former Presidents, shall identify any specific materials, the disclosure of which he believes may raise a substantial question of executive privilege.  However, nothing in this order is intended to affect the right of the incumbent or former Presidents to invoke executive privilege with respect to materials not identified by the Archivist.  Copies of the notice for the incumbent President shall be delivered to the President (through the Counsel to the President) and the Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel).  The copy of the notice for the former President shall be delivered to the former President or his designated representative.

(b)  Upon the passage of 30 days after receipt by the incumbent and former Presidents of a notice of intent to disclose Presidential records, the Archivist may disclose the records covered by the notice, unless during that time period the Archivist has received a claim of executive privilege by the incumbent or former President or the Archivist has been instructed by the incumbent President or his designee to extend the time period for a time certain and with reason for the extension of time provided in the notice.  If a shorter period of time is required under the circumstances set forth in section 1270.44 of the NARA regulations, the Archivist shall so indicate in the notice.

Sec. 3.  Claim of Executive Privilege by Incumbent President. 

(a)  Upon receipt of a notice of intent to disclose Presidential records, the Attorney General (directly or through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel) and the Counsel to the President shall review as they deem appropriate the records covered by the notice and consult with each other, the Archivist, and such other executive agencies as they deem appropriate concerning whether invocation of executive privilege is justified.

(b)  The Attorney General and the Counsel to the President, in the exercise of their discretion and after appropriate review and consultation under subsection (a) of this section, may jointly determine that invocation of executive privilege is not justified.  The Archivist shall be notified promptly of any such determination.

(c)  If either the Attorney General or the Counsel to the President believes that the circumstances justify invocation of executive privilege, the issue shall be presented to the President by the Counsel to the President and the Attorney General.

(d)  If the President decides to invoke executive privilege, the Counsel to the President shall notify the former President, the Archivist, and the Attorney General in writing of the claim of privilege and the specific Presidential records to which it relates.  After receiving such notice, the Archivist shall not disclose the privileged records unless directed to do so by an incumbent President or by a final court order.

Sec. 4.  Claim of Executive Privilege by Former President.

(a)  Upon receipt of a claim of executive privilege by a living former President, the Archivist shall consult with the Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel), the Counsel to the President, and such other executive agencies as the Archivist deems appropriate concerning the Archivist's determination as to whether to honor the former President's claim of privilege or instead to disclose the Presidential records notwithstanding the claim of privilege.  Any determination under section 3 of this order that executive privilege shall not be invoked by the incumbent President shall not prejudice the Archivist's determination with respect to the former President's claim of privilege.

(b)  In making the determination referred to in subsection (a) of this section, the Archivist shall abide by any instructions given him by the incumbent President or his designee unless otherwise directed by a final court order.  The Archivist shall notify the incumbent and former Presidents of his determination at least 30 days prior to disclosure of the Presidential records, unless a shorter time period is required in the circumstances set forth in section 1270.44 of the NARA regulations.  Copies of the notice for the incumbent President shall be delivered to the President (through the Counsel to the President) and the Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel).  The copy of the notice for the former President shall be delivered to the former President or his designated representative.

Sec. 5.  General Provisions. 

(a)  Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

 (i)   authority granted by law to a department or agency, or the head thereof; or

 (ii)  functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budget, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b)  This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c)  This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

Sec. 6.  Revocation.  Executive Order 13233 of November 1, 2001, is revoked.

 

BARACK OBAMA

THE WHITE HOUSE,
    January 21, 2009

 


297 posted on 12/06/2009 3:37:40 PM PST by deport (86 DAYS UNTIL THE TEXAS PRIMARY....... MARCH 2, 2010)
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To: RowdyFFC; BuckeyeTexan

Note Sec. 3 & 4 in both Reagan’s EO and Obama’s EO. In effect Obama brought it back to what Reagan had which was totally changed by Bush.


298 posted on 12/06/2009 3:50:13 PM PST by deport (86 DAYS UNTIL THE TEXAS PRIMARY....... MARCH 2, 2010)
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To: deport

Thanks, deport. That’s good information and does help clarify things.


299 posted on 12/06/2009 3:59:52 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Integrity, Honesty, Character, & Loyalty still matter)
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To: curiosity
Obama and every single member of his family have consistently said he was born in Kapi'olani.

NOT grandma Sarah, who saw his birth in Kenya!!!

300 posted on 12/06/2009 4:01:24 PM PST by danamco
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