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Official Request byCongressmen to See Obama's Birth Certificate-Straw Which Breaks This Camel's Back
http://www.thepostemail.com/ ^

Posted on 12/04/2009 4:47:27 PM PST by cycle of discernment

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To: tired_old_conservative; Red Steel
I never said that. I do think all this carrying on makes conservatives look foolish.

So what you are sying is that Sarah Palin, 10 Congressmen, a whole bunch of Chrysler/GM auto dealers and Donofrio are all foolish too???

401 posted on 12/09/2009 7:30:00 AM PST by danamco
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To: danamco
"Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1984." You should be too OLD of side-stepping, but as usual you do, like "your" ballet dancer Rahm Emanuel!! You forget that after loosing Kenyan citizenship he became a British Commonwealth citizen forever including World citizen from his membership of E.U. Please read it all from Apuzzo's site: http://puzo1.blogspot.com/"

If you bothered to read 385, you'd see I am familiar with Apuzzo and already noted him before your post.

402 posted on 12/09/2009 10:44:44 AM PST by tired_old_conservative
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To: danamco

Yep. On this issue. Foolish isn’t defined by who your are or aren’t, but by what you do. And to the extent what passes for conservatism these days embraces this nonsense, it’s only harming itself.


403 posted on 12/09/2009 10:47:04 AM PST by tired_old_conservative
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To: tired_old_conservative; Red Steel; Danae
And by-the-by, I am also aware of Apuzzo’s convoluted opinion as to how Obama could have not lost British citizenship.

Since he avoids discussing aspects of statute that do not support his opinion, and since British scholars don't seem to agree, I just don't care.

"I just don't care." That IS the problem we are facing in our country today, when we have "old and tired conservatives" who are willing to sell out our country on a voter fraud and pleasing to an illegal alien and usurper in the W.H. BTW, there is plenty of Omega3 in kippers. That would give some needed energy instead of being tired all the time!!!

"Convoluted opinion" What statute does not support his opinion???

404 posted on 12/09/2009 11:04:05 AM PST by danamco
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To: tired_old_conservative; Red Steel
You very conveniently skipped post # 399???

Ater all of your spamming, you certainly is NOT considered to be a Conservative among us, whether we are "Birthers" or not putting you in the high class of "After-Birther", which you really are instead of a Conservative!!!

405 posted on 12/09/2009 11:13:35 AM PST by danamco
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To: curiosity
NOT grandma Sarah, who saw his birth in Kenya!!!

That is simply not true. She never said anything of the sort. Did you listen to the entire McRae tape, or did you only listen to the birther-edited version that cuts her off right before she says he was born in Hawaii?

You have been pretty quite lately???

Now long before the 2008 election we had several African newspaper claiming your pal as a "Kenyan born U.S. Senator to be." So here is how Apuzzo is seeing this played out and I heard and saw the videos"!!!

23. An Investigator working for Philip Berg, Esq. learned the following which is contained in the investigator's affidavit dated October 30, 2008, that was filed with a Federal District Court in the case of Berg v. Obama, 08-cv-04083: Obama's step-grandmother, Sarah Obama, told Bishop McRae, who was in the United States, during a telephonic interview on October 12, 2008, while she was in her home located in Alego-Kogello, Kenya, that was full of security police and people and family who were celebrating then-Senator Obama's success story, that she witnessed Obama's birth in Kenya, not the United States (the English and Swahili conversation is recorded and available for listening). She was adamant about this fact not once but twice. The conversation which was placed on speaker phone was translated into English by "Kweli Shuhubia" and one of the grandmother's grandsons who were present with the grandmother in the house. After the grandmother made the same statement twice, her grandson intervened, saying "No, No, No, He [sic] was born in the United States." During the interview, the grandmother never changed her reply that she was present when Obama was born in Kenya. The fact that later in the same interview she change her statement to say that Obama was born in Hawaii does not change the fact that she at first stated twice that she was present when Obama was born in Kenya. I cannot imagine a grandmother not knowing whether she was present or not at the birth of her American Senator and U.S. Presidential candidate grandson.

24. The investigator then personally went to the hospital in Mombasa, Kenya. He spoke with the Provincial Civil Registrar and he learned that there were records of Ann Dunham giving birth to "Barack Hussein Obama, III" in Mombassa, Kenya on August 4, 1961. The investigator then "spoke directly with an Official, the Principal Registrar, who openly confirmed the birthing records of Senator Barack H. Obama, Jr. and his mother were present, however, the file on Barack H. Obama, Jr. was classified and profiled. The Official explained Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. [sic] birth in Kenya is top secret. [H]e was further instructed to go to the Attorney General's Office and to the Minister in Charge of Immigration if [he] wanted further information."

25. The Kenyan Ambassador to the United States, Peter N.R.O. Ogego, confirmed on November 6, 2008, during a radio interview with Detroit radio talk-show hosts Mike Clark, Trudi Daniels, and Marc Fellhauer on WRIF's "Mike In the Morning," that "President-Elect Obama" was born in Kenya and that his birth place was already a "well-known" attraction.

406 posted on 12/09/2009 11:27:21 AM PST by danamco
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To: danamco
Apuzzo’s opinion is just that—his opinion. He has cobbled together bits and pieces of British statue and the Kenyan constitution to support it. Other analysts, including those who work for the British Foreign Office, have stated that this interpretation ignores salient parts of the history and actual text that invalidate his conclusion.

Of course, if you want to believe Apuzzo, be my guest. Just don't be stunned when serious people ignore him and his opinions and cases go nowhere.

407 posted on 12/09/2009 12:01:53 PM PST by tired_old_conservative
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To: danamco
Your comment about his records being sealed lacks specificity. If it's that tired old misunderstanding about the Executive Order, it's not worth another discussion. If it's the misunderstanding about privacy law as it reflects to personal information, ditto. If it's why he doesn't just volunteer stuff on his own, I guess that could be a discussion with people willing to objectively look at facts, which, to be blunt, isn't the crowd wanting to see his baptism records.

“Ater all of your spamming, you certainly is NOT considered to be a Conservative among us, whether we are “Birthers” or not putting you in the high class of “After-Birther”, which you really are instead of a Conservative!!!”

I am known to be a conservative to the people whose opinion matters to me. I worked on the Reagan campaign and have done get out the vote work for multiple conservative candidates. The tenets of conservatism do not include raving “usurper” and shilling incredulous conspiracy theories just because we lost an election.

Also, the definition of spamming is "Unsolicited e-mail, often of a commercial nature, sent indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups; junk e-mail." This, by contrast, is simply posting comments on an open forum.

408 posted on 12/09/2009 12:25:41 PM PST by tired_old_conservative
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To: tired_old_conservative

They way some disrupt others discussions are also called “spamming” like some of you constantly do!!!


409 posted on 12/09/2009 1:41:42 PM PST by danamco
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To: tired_old_conservative
Thank you. I don't know why I do it.
410 posted on 12/09/2009 9:29:45 PM PST by curiosity
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To: rolling_stone
I see you have either a reading comprehensive problem or some other inability to answer a simple question. I repeat, in 1961 when Obie Jr was supposed to be born how could he either derive or acquire US Citizenship or using your term naturalize? HINT that was before the Child Citizenship act of 2000.

My bad. I missed the fact that the code was Amended in 2000. So you are right, Obama Jr. would not have become a US citizen automatically upon establishing residency in the US if he really was born in Kenya. His mom would have had to wait five years before applying for his naturalization.

That still doesn't establish a motive for her to fraudulantly register his birth.

You speculate that she did it in order to make sure his dad could not take him back to Kenya. That makes no sense. Surely if he had actually been born in Kenya, his dad would have known about it and would be able to produce proof. Therefore, if she really had fraudulantly registered his birth in the US, he could easily challange that registration if he thought doing so was in his best interest.

So I really don't see how you have a point. There's no way they could have pulled one over on dad by fraudulantly registering his birth.

My original point thus stands. There was nothing to gain by committing fraud to register his birth. Obama's mom could have easily obtained US citizenship for him legally even if he had been born in Kenya. It would have taken 5 years, but so what? The fact that she was a US citizen gave her access to all the welfare programs she would ever want.

411 posted on 12/09/2009 9:42:06 PM PST by curiosity
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To: danamco
Hey smart alec, here you have five different video links explaining the fraud and how easy it is to fake a BC, that even YOU should be able to understand:

Perhaps it's easy to fake a BC. However, I don't think it's quite as easy to hack into the Hawaii department of public health and create a false vital record that says you were born in Hawaii. And not get caught.

But I'm not a hacker, so what do I know?

412 posted on 12/09/2009 9:46:01 PM PST by curiosity
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To: danamco
An Investigator working for Philip Berg, Esq. learned the following which is contained in the investigator's affidavit dated October 30, 2008, that was filed with a Federal District Court in the case of Berg v. Obama,

LOL. You'll forgive me if I'm not ver quick to take the word of some anonymous "investigator," whose credentials I cannot verify, who just happens to be in the pay of a guy who thinks 9-11 was an inside job.

Now long before the 2008 election we had several African newspaper claiming your pal as a "Kenyan born U.S. Senator to be."

Yes, and we know all African newspapers never get their facts wrong./sarcasm.

413 posted on 12/09/2009 9:50:30 PM PST by curiosity
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To: danamco
that he was also, and IS still today, - as we speak,- a BRITISH CITIZEN according to the BNA!!!

Well, I don't know whether or not that is true. It's possible that the British government considers him to be a British citizen. I'll let the legal experts worry about that. So long as he never acted on it, and never obtained a British passport or never partook of any of the benefits of British citizenship, I don't see why anyone should care.

I'd rather focus on attacking him for real unpatriotic acts that actually matter, such as his decision to give war criminals captured on the battlefield access to our civilian courts.

414 posted on 12/09/2009 9:58:34 PM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity
I'd rather focus on attacking him for real unpatriotic acts that actually matter, such as his decision to give war criminals captured on the battlefield access to our civilian courts.

Yep, that is very nice progressive "Tap-Dancing"!!!

415 posted on 12/10/2009 5:51:29 AM PST by danamco
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To: curiosity
My bad. I missed the fact that the code was Amended in 2000. So you are right, Obama Jr. would not have become a US citizen automatically upon establishing residency in the US if he really was born in Kenya. His mom would have had to wait five years before applying for his naturalization.

Well now you appear to be approaching this with a little more logic and fact rather than bleeding heart emotion. So please point out where you get your information that in 1961 Obie's mom would have had to wait 5 years to apply for his naturalization and could apply on his behalf? (hint this is before 1995)

That still doesn't establish a motive for her to fraudulantly register his birth.

Your conclusion is still based on your "new" information that it would only take 5 years for his mom to apply for his naturalization, if that is not true, then your conclusion is once again suspect.

You speculate that she did it in order to make sure his dad could not take him back to Kenya. That makes no sense. Surely if he had actually been born in Kenya, his dad would have known about it and would be able to produce proof. Therefore, if she really had fraudulantly registered his birth in the US, he could easily challange that registration if he thought doing so was in his best interest.

So I really don't see how you have a point. There's no way they could have pulled one over on dad by fraudulantly registering his birth.

If Obie jr was born in Kenya would Obie Sr even know mama fraudulently registered his birth in Hawaii? Would you rather fight for your child with the child in Kenya (foreign to you) or in the United States? Tell me how a Hawaii court will accept a foreign birth certificate over a Hawaiian one? Sure bring witnesses from Kenya etc, how much will that cost. And of course mama could disappear with the baby,(is that what she did when she left Hawaii?) do you think Obies SR would give up his ambition and dreams to spend his time and little money he doesn't have to chase after a child he may not be that attached to? The immediate problem for mama was to get the child into the US, the rest may or may not follow....We do not know much about the relationship of Stanley Ann and Obie Sr except they separated sometime before the September 1961. When Stanley Ann left Hawaii for Washington St, did Obie Sr. even know where she went? Did he care? Did he make a deal to not fight custody in return for her not demanding child support allowing Obie Sr to continue with school? Did his opportunity to go to Harvard enter into his decision making process?

My original point thus stands. There was nothing to gain by committing fraud to register his birth. Obama's mom could have easily obtained US citizenship for him legally even if he had been born in Kenya. It would have taken 5 years, but so what? The fact that she was a US citizen gave her access to all the welfare programs she would ever want.

My reply is as above, your conclusion should be predicated on correct information. Is it?

Lets go back and look at the problem as it would have evolved in 1961. IF Obie was born in Kenya and mom and he were in Kenya. First, how would Obie return to the USA? If he had a fraudulent Hawaii Birth Certificate he could return, if not how would he enter the US? What documents would he use? Would he not be a Kenyan citizen, have a Kenyan Passport and need a US Visa to enter the US? What category of visa would he be eligible for? Would both parents have to sign his visa application? How long would it take to get the visa? How long before he could become a citizen and what would he have to do to become a citizen? Could he give up his US residence and travel to Indonesia? Would that affect his visa status and ability to naturalize? All these things make it much simpler and give reason for mom to try and get him a fraudulent Hawaiian birth certificate, do they not?

Once again what evidence is there Obie was born in any hospital?

416 posted on 12/10/2009 9:41:48 AM PST by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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To: rolling_stone
So please point out where you get your information that in 1961 Obie's mom would have had to wait 5 years to apply for his naturalization and could apply on his behalf? (hint this is before 1995)

Title III, Chapter 2 of the Immigration and Nationality act of 1952, which was the law governing immigration an naturalization at the time.

First, how would Obie return to the USA? If he had a fraudulent Hawaii Birth Certificate he could return, if not how would he enter the US?

Under Title I, section 101 of the same act, any child of a US citizen is entitled to non-quota immigrant status. Under Title II section 203, conciliar officals, upon proof that the child in question is the offspring of a US citizen (i.e. upon showing mama Obama's passport and bambi's BC), are required to grant visas to such children.

Bottom line: it would have been very easy for mama Obama to bring Bambi back into the USA and to naturalize him without committing fraud.

As to answer some of your other questions:

If Obie jr was born in Kenya would Obie Sr even know mama fraudulently registered his birth in Hawaii?

Well, if Obie Sr. got into a custody dispute with mama Obama, and she produced a Hawaiian birth certificate, I think that would tip him off.

Would you rather fight for your child with the child in Kenya (foreign to you) or in the United States?

Irrelevant, since we've already established that she did not need to committ fraud to allow him to enter the USA.

Tell me how a Hawaii court will accept a foreign birth certificate over a Hawaiian one?

Well, if the sole basis of the birth certificate is sworn testimony from grandma, and the presumed father disputes the validity of this testimony (and he would be the presumed father, since he was married to mama Obama at the time of bambi's birth), and further he can produce an official document to support his case, then it seems to me any court would take that very seriously.

What category of visa would he be eligible for?

Nonquota immigrant visa.

Would both parents have to sign his visa application?

There is nothing in the law requiring it.

How long would it take to get the visa?

The law instructs consular officials to grant the visa upon proof of eligibility, so it seems that it would be pretty quick.

How long before he could become a citizen and what would he have to do to become a citizen?

5 years. The procedures for naturalizing children of US citizens were never particularly difficult.

Could he give up his US residence and travel to Indonesia? Would that affect his visa status and ability to naturalize?

He didn't travel to Indonesia until he was six, by which time he already would have been naturalized.

But even if he traveled abroad before then, there would be nothing to impede him getting naturalized. So long as he had a non-quota immigrant visa, he could enter and re-enter the US without restriction. So long as he did not interupt the 5 year period of residence, he would be eligible for naturalization at age 5.

And even if he did interupt that period of residence, all he would have to do to get US citienship is reside within the United States for a period of 5 years before his 18th birthday, fill out some forms, take an oath, etc.

All these things make it much simpler and give reason for mom to try and get him a fraudulent Hawaiian birth certificate, do they not?

Not when you consider the fact that by committing fraud, she would be risking a felony conviction.

Why risk a felony conviction if you can relatively easily 1) obtain an immigrant visa for your child and 2) get him naturalized once he's lived in the US for 5 years?

417 posted on 12/10/2009 11:27:15 AM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity
...So please point out where you get your information that in 1961 Obie's mom would have had to wait 5 years to apply for his naturalization and could apply on his behalf? (hint this is before 1995)

Title III, Chapter 2 of the Immigration and Nationality act of 1952, which was the law governing immigration an naturalization at the time.

Which particular section are you referring to? By the way its also referred to as the McCarren-Walter Act and became effective 12-24-52.

...First, how would Obie return to the USA? If he had a fraudulent Hawaii Birth Certificate he could return, if not how would he enter the US?

Under Title I, section 101 of the same act, any child of a US citizen is entitled to non-quota immigrant status. Under Title II section 203, conciliar officals, upon proof that the child in question is the offspring of a US citizen (i.e. upon showing mama Obama's passport and bambi's BC), are required to grant visas to such children.

CORRECT.

Bottom line: it would have been very easy for mama Obama to bring Bambi back into the USA and to naturalize him without committing fraud.

Don't think so.

As to answer some of your other questions:

...If Obie jr was born in Kenya would Obie Sr even know mama fraudulently registered his birth in Hawaii?

Well, if Obie Sr. got into a custody dispute with mama Obama, and she produced a Hawaiian birth certificate, I think that would tip him off.

AH yes if they got into a dispute, and if they didn't? Did Obie Sr know Stanley took Obie jr to Washington State?

....Would you rather fight for your child with the child in Kenya (foreign to you) or in the United States?

Irrelevant, since we've already established that she did not need to committ fraud to allow him to enter the USA.

We did? So when did Obie Sr allow his son to leave Kenya? Are you familiar with the problems American wives have getting their children back to the US from Muslim countries?

...Tell me how a Hawaii court will accept a foreign birth certificate over a Hawaiian one?

Well, if the sole basis of the birth certificate is sworn testimony from grandma, and the presumed father disputes the validity of this testimony (and he would be the presumed father, since he was married to mama Obama at the time of bambi's birth), and further he can produce an official document to support his case, then it seems to me any court would take that very seriously.

Yeah presumed bigamous father is going to testify and get nailed for bigamy in Hawaii. Is he that stupid? He would be easily impeached.

....What category of visa would he be eligible for?

Nonquota immigrant visa.

CORRECT IR-2 child of US citizen.

...Would both parents have to sign his visa application?

There is nothing in the law requiring it.

Really? How about an application for naturalization?

...How long would it take to get the visa?

The law instructs consular officials to grant the visa upon proof of eligibility, so it seems that it would be pretty quick.

Have you ever dealt with the State Department, US Embassies overseas? Do you have any idea how long it would take?

...How long before he could become a citizen and what would he have to do to become a citizen?

5 years. The procedures for naturalizing children of US citizens were never particularly difficult.

Im still waiting for you to provide the applicable section of law that says that.

...Could he give up his US residence and travel to Indonesia? Would that affect his visa status and ability to naturalize? ...

He didn't travel to Indonesia until he was six, by which time he already would have been naturalized.

As above, still waiting for you to provide the law you state is applicable. And then we are to believe Soetoro would let his step son or adopted child become a US Citizen while planning on returning to Indonesia? A leap of faith IMO.

But even if he traveled abroad before then, there would be nothing to impede him getting naturalized. So long as he had a non-quota immigrant visa, he could enter and re-enter the US without restriction. So long as he did not interupt the 5 year period of residence, he would be eligible for naturalization at age 5.

Wrong. (hint) Residency is different for a LAPR or person Lawfully Admitted for Permanent Residency than to be Naturalized.

And even if he did interupt that period of residence, all he would have to do to get US citienship is reside within the United States for a period of 5 years before his 18th birthday, fill out some forms, take an oath, etc.

So he could naturalize before he is 18? Where is that in the law?

....All these things make it much simpler and give reason for mom to try and get him a fraudulent Hawaiian birth certificate, do they not?

Not when you consider the fact that by committing fraud, she would be risking a felony conviction.

So lying on her divorce and Obie Sr lying about his previous marriage isn't risking a felony conviction?

Why risk a felony conviction if you can relatively easily 1) obtain an immigrant visa for your child and 2) get him naturalized once he's lived in the US for 5 years?

Hehehehe, is Obies daddy the Kenyan Colonel going to naturalize?

418 posted on 12/10/2009 1:47:48 PM PST by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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To: rolling_stone
Which particular section are you referring to? By the way its also referred to as the McCarren-Walter Act and became effective 12-24-52

The complete cite is Title III, Chapter 2, section 313. My apologies for not specifying this earlier.

As to the rest of your post, as I see it, you are making two arguments:

1) Grandma Obama had an incentive to fraudulantly register bambi's birth in Hawaii so mama Obama could bring him home from Kenya.

2) By fraudulantly registering him in Hawaii, mama Obama would have made it easier to keep him in Hawaii in case she her marriage fell appart and daddy wanted to take Obie Jr. to Kenya.

I'll dispose of them one at a time.

Number 1:

I've already established that immigration law at the time made Obie Jr. eligible for a non-quota immigrant visa, and it would be very easy to get one for him. So there would be no legal impediment to mama Obama bringing him home without a Hawaiian birth certificate.

However, you seem to be arguing that Obie Sr. might pose a problem in that he might not allow mama Obama to bring him home.

This makes little sense to me for two reasons.

A: It seems highly unliely Obie Sr. would try to stop his son from returning to Hawaii. Obie Sr. was a student in Hawaii, and by all accounts was determined to finish his degree. He himself, therefore, would surely have been planning to return back to Hawaii if he were in fact in Kenya during the summer of 1961 (of course, there is no evidence he was in Kenya in 1961, but let's go with it for sake of argument). Why would he want to stop his son from returning to Hawaii with him? This makes no sense.

B: Even if for some completely irrational reason he wanted to stop his son from returning to Hawaii, I don't see how a fraudulantly obtained Hawaiian birth certificate would prevent him from doing so. Suppose mama Obama says, "I'm taking Jr. back to Hawaii," and Obie Sr. says "No." How exactly would the Hawaiian BC help mama? If Bambi was really born in Kenya, surely it would be relatively easy for Obie Sr. to prove in front of a Kenyan court that the Hawaiian birth certificate was fraudulant.

Now lets go to argument number 2.

You assert that mama Obama might have been worried that once they are back in Hawaii, Obie Sr. might want to dump her and to take their son back to Kenya. So she fraudulantly obtains a Hawaiian birth certificate, without his knowledge, to prevent this.

Here again your argument holds little water.

First of all, divorce courts generally give custody preference to the mother, and I know of no Hawaiian legal precedent or provision of family law under which the citizenship of the child would change that. Perhaps you can cite one.

Second of all, even if Jr's citizenship would have made difference in a custody battle, it would have been very easy for Obie Sr. to prove the US birth certificate was fraudulant if, in point of fact, Obie Jr. was born in Kenya.

So in the end your argument holds no water. There was no reason for either mama or grandma Obama to risk a felony conviction and fraudulantly register Jr.'s birth in Hawaii if he were in fact born in Kenya.

As to mama Obama risking a felony and committing fraud in the divorce papers, please elaborate. How, exactly did she commit fraud?

419 posted on 12/10/2009 3:02:46 PM PST by curiosity
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To: rolling_stone
The complete cite is Title III, Chapter 2, section 313.

Woops. Typo. That's section 316.

420 posted on 12/10/2009 3:12:47 PM PST by curiosity
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To: rolling_stone
Upon further reading, I realize that my case is even stronger.

Mama Obama would not have to wait 5 years to naturalize her son. She could have done it immediately upon her return to Hawaii. It's as clear as day in Title III, Chapt. 2, Section 322. Scroll down to page 84 (top-of-the-page numbering; bottom of the page says 86):

http://ftp.resource.org/gao.gov/82-414/00002F05a.pdf

It's not the greatest of scans, but it's legible.

So I think I have totally refuted you.

1) Mama Obama could have easily and legally obtained an nonquota immigrant visa for her son, even if he were born in Kenya, which would have allowed her to take him back to Hawaii.

2)Immediately upon her return, she could have applied for his naturalized citizenship and he would have received it as soon as it was processed. There was very little immigration in those days, so there's no reason to expect it would have taken very long at all.

Ergo, she absolutely no motive for fraudulantly registering his birth in Hawaii.

So, given that we know his birth was registered in Hawaii, you birthers have no case, unless you birthers somehow miraculously forsaw that he might run for president.

421 posted on 12/10/2009 4:28:40 PM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity
Yes, and we know all African newspapers never get their facts wrong./sarcas

Do you really honestly believe that they all were total wrong???

422 posted on 12/10/2009 10:31:27 PM PST by danamco
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To: curiosity
Sheesh I thought you were making progress. Yes you finally found the right section of law that could govern Obie Jr in 1961. It changes nothing. It is an obscure law that required a child (go ahead determine what that meant in the statute)to become a LAPR prior to their US citizen parent petitioning(1961 term, currently the word application is used)for a certificate of citizenship for their child. Generally INS would take several years to process such a petition. In processing it they would have to determine the paternity of Obie Jr and whether the marriage and Obie Jr. was legitimate. (oops secret would be out) This gives her the motive to take the easy way out and have grandma say Obie was born in Hawaii. Sorry no cigar for you.

The scenario suggested was that Stanley Ann went to Kenya with Obie Sr, didn't like it and having to share with Obie Sr’s other wife and decided to come home but couldn't get on a plane due to her late stage of pregnancy. She was short time to do anything so would she have time to find an immigration lawyer to advise her over in Kenya and if she did what advice would he give her? Or did she and grandma just decide to take the easy way and fake it? It makes more sense.

As for Stanley Ann's divorce, she swore she had been a resident of Honolulu Hawaii ..now at at least two years past as of the date of filing for divorce -January 20, 1964 when she had not. She was enrolled at the University of Washington in Spring of 1962 and did not return to Hawaii until probably December 1962 or January 1963, making her continuous residency in Hawaii less than two years.

423 posted on 12/11/2009 8:16:35 PM PST by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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To: rolling_stone
It changes nothing.

Sure it does. It establishes a straighforward, legal means for which Stanley Ann could have acquired citizenship for her son even if he were born in Kenya.

It is an obscure law that required a child (go ahead determine what that meant in the statute)

LOL. Talk about grasping a straws. Next you'll start claiming that the meaning of "is" is obscure.

to become a LAPR prior to their US citizen parent petitioning(1961 term, currently the word application is used)for a certificate of citizenship for their child. Generally INS would take several years to process such a petition.

Nope. The 1952 Act directs US consolates to grant an immigrant visa upon being presented evidence of maternity and the US citizenship of the mother. All she would need would be her passport and his birth certificate. There was no need to deal with the INS, at least for this part.

She would only have to deal with INS upon her return to the states when petitioning for his naturalized citizenship.

In processing it they would have to determine the paternity of Obie Jr and whether the marriage and Obie Jr. was legitimate.

If he were illegitimate, then according the 1952 law, he would be a citizen at birth and there would be no need for any petitioning.

This gives her the motive to take the easy way out and have grandma say Obie was born in Hawaii. Sorry no cigar for you.

Back at you.

The scenario suggested was that Stanley Ann went to Kenya with Obie Sr, didn't like it and having to share with Obie Sr’s other wife and decided to come home but couldn't get on a plane due to her late stage of pregnancy.

Yes, that's the scenario, for which there is exactly zero evidence. It's nothing more than wild, birther speculation.

She was short time to do anything so would she have time to find an immigration lawyer to advise her over in Kenya and if she did what advice would he give her? Or did she and grandma just decide to take the easy way and fake it? It makes more sense.

Right. It makes so much sense that a 6-7 month pregnant educated woman would travel to Kenya in 1961, just to give birth in third world conditions./sarcasm

And then it makes so much sense that it never occurred to said educated woman that she might be able to obtain US visa and then citizenship for her son legally. It's so unreasonable that she might have called up the US consolate to ask about her options./sarcasm

As for Stanley Ann's divorce, she swore she had been a resident of Honolulu Hawaii ..now at at least two years past as of the date of filing for divorce -January 20, 1964 when she had not. She was enrolled at the University of Washington in Spring of 1962 and did not return to Hawaii until probably December 1962 or January 1963, making her continuous residency in Hawaii less than two years.

Some states allow college students, whose parents are living in state, to keep their residency while temporarily studying out of state. It's therefore quite possible that Hawaii was her legal domicile while she was studying at the UW.

I'm not sure whether this was the case under Hawaii in 1961, but since you're the one accusing her of fraud (not me), the burden of proof is on you.

Also, where do you get the 2-year residency requirement? Current law only requires six months:

http://www.divorcesource.com/info/divorcelawsreq/hawaii.shtml

Can you provide a source for your assertion that in 1961 the requirement was two years?

424 posted on 12/14/2009 11:14:36 AM PST by curiosity
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To: cycle of discernment
BTTT,

Any updates on this front since Dec 4th ?

425 posted on 01/01/2010 5:47:55 AM PST by urtax$@work (The best kind of memorial is a Burning Memorial.........)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
An honest man would be **HONORED** to promptly prove in every way that he is a natural born citizen and eligible to be president.

If representatives from the House ask him to do it, why doesn't Obama just nod his head to his secretary, sign a few release forms, and just do it?

The polls that I have read show that 30% of the voting population and 51% of Republicans do not believe that Obama was born in the U.S. If those who merely have questions were added to those numbers, then that is a **LOT** of people! As the economy tanks, unemployment rise further, and Obama’s approval sinks to new lows, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that this issue of Obama’s eligibility will go away.

426 posted on 01/01/2010 6:13:32 AM PST by wintertime
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To: JerseyDvl
Nevr in my wildest dreams did I think that our media and politicians would be so damn irresponsible.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Never did I think our **conservative** media would be so damned irresponsible!

Rush flat out lied when he said he didn't know who Phillip Berg and Larry Sinclair were.

And...I hold Ann Coulter in special contempt!

427 posted on 01/01/2010 6:18:36 AM PST by wintertime
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