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To: rolling_stone
I see you have either a reading comprehensive problem or some other inability to answer a simple question. I repeat, in 1961 when Obie Jr was supposed to be born how could he either derive or acquire US Citizenship or using your term naturalize? HINT that was before the Child Citizenship act of 2000.

My bad. I missed the fact that the code was Amended in 2000. So you are right, Obama Jr. would not have become a US citizen automatically upon establishing residency in the US if he really was born in Kenya. His mom would have had to wait five years before applying for his naturalization.

That still doesn't establish a motive for her to fraudulantly register his birth.

You speculate that she did it in order to make sure his dad could not take him back to Kenya. That makes no sense. Surely if he had actually been born in Kenya, his dad would have known about it and would be able to produce proof. Therefore, if she really had fraudulantly registered his birth in the US, he could easily challange that registration if he thought doing so was in his best interest.

So I really don't see how you have a point. There's no way they could have pulled one over on dad by fraudulantly registering his birth.

My original point thus stands. There was nothing to gain by committing fraud to register his birth. Obama's mom could have easily obtained US citizenship for him legally even if he had been born in Kenya. It would have taken 5 years, but so what? The fact that she was a US citizen gave her access to all the welfare programs she would ever want.

411 posted on 12/09/2009 9:42:06 PM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity
My bad. I missed the fact that the code was Amended in 2000. So you are right, Obama Jr. would not have become a US citizen automatically upon establishing residency in the US if he really was born in Kenya. His mom would have had to wait five years before applying for his naturalization.

Well now you appear to be approaching this with a little more logic and fact rather than bleeding heart emotion. So please point out where you get your information that in 1961 Obie's mom would have had to wait 5 years to apply for his naturalization and could apply on his behalf? (hint this is before 1995)

That still doesn't establish a motive for her to fraudulantly register his birth.

Your conclusion is still based on your "new" information that it would only take 5 years for his mom to apply for his naturalization, if that is not true, then your conclusion is once again suspect.

You speculate that she did it in order to make sure his dad could not take him back to Kenya. That makes no sense. Surely if he had actually been born in Kenya, his dad would have known about it and would be able to produce proof. Therefore, if she really had fraudulantly registered his birth in the US, he could easily challange that registration if he thought doing so was in his best interest.

So I really don't see how you have a point. There's no way they could have pulled one over on dad by fraudulantly registering his birth.

If Obie jr was born in Kenya would Obie Sr even know mama fraudulently registered his birth in Hawaii? Would you rather fight for your child with the child in Kenya (foreign to you) or in the United States? Tell me how a Hawaii court will accept a foreign birth certificate over a Hawaiian one? Sure bring witnesses from Kenya etc, how much will that cost. And of course mama could disappear with the baby,(is that what she did when she left Hawaii?) do you think Obies SR would give up his ambition and dreams to spend his time and little money he doesn't have to chase after a child he may not be that attached to? The immediate problem for mama was to get the child into the US, the rest may or may not follow....We do not know much about the relationship of Stanley Ann and Obie Sr except they separated sometime before the September 1961. When Stanley Ann left Hawaii for Washington St, did Obie Sr. even know where she went? Did he care? Did he make a deal to not fight custody in return for her not demanding child support allowing Obie Sr to continue with school? Did his opportunity to go to Harvard enter into his decision making process?

My original point thus stands. There was nothing to gain by committing fraud to register his birth. Obama's mom could have easily obtained US citizenship for him legally even if he had been born in Kenya. It would have taken 5 years, but so what? The fact that she was a US citizen gave her access to all the welfare programs she would ever want.

My reply is as above, your conclusion should be predicated on correct information. Is it?

Lets go back and look at the problem as it would have evolved in 1961. IF Obie was born in Kenya and mom and he were in Kenya. First, how would Obie return to the USA? If he had a fraudulent Hawaii Birth Certificate he could return, if not how would he enter the US? What documents would he use? Would he not be a Kenyan citizen, have a Kenyan Passport and need a US Visa to enter the US? What category of visa would he be eligible for? Would both parents have to sign his visa application? How long would it take to get the visa? How long before he could become a citizen and what would he have to do to become a citizen? Could he give up his US residence and travel to Indonesia? Would that affect his visa status and ability to naturalize? All these things make it much simpler and give reason for mom to try and get him a fraudulent Hawaiian birth certificate, do they not?

Once again what evidence is there Obie was born in any hospital?

416 posted on 12/10/2009 9:41:48 AM PST by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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