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To: curiosity
My bad. I missed the fact that the code was Amended in 2000. So you are right, Obama Jr. would not have become a US citizen automatically upon establishing residency in the US if he really was born in Kenya. His mom would have had to wait five years before applying for his naturalization.

Well now you appear to be approaching this with a little more logic and fact rather than bleeding heart emotion. So please point out where you get your information that in 1961 Obie's mom would have had to wait 5 years to apply for his naturalization and could apply on his behalf? (hint this is before 1995)

That still doesn't establish a motive for her to fraudulantly register his birth.

Your conclusion is still based on your "new" information that it would only take 5 years for his mom to apply for his naturalization, if that is not true, then your conclusion is once again suspect.

You speculate that she did it in order to make sure his dad could not take him back to Kenya. That makes no sense. Surely if he had actually been born in Kenya, his dad would have known about it and would be able to produce proof. Therefore, if she really had fraudulantly registered his birth in the US, he could easily challange that registration if he thought doing so was in his best interest.

So I really don't see how you have a point. There's no way they could have pulled one over on dad by fraudulantly registering his birth.

If Obie jr was born in Kenya would Obie Sr even know mama fraudulently registered his birth in Hawaii? Would you rather fight for your child with the child in Kenya (foreign to you) or in the United States? Tell me how a Hawaii court will accept a foreign birth certificate over a Hawaiian one? Sure bring witnesses from Kenya etc, how much will that cost. And of course mama could disappear with the baby,(is that what she did when she left Hawaii?) do you think Obies SR would give up his ambition and dreams to spend his time and little money he doesn't have to chase after a child he may not be that attached to? The immediate problem for mama was to get the child into the US, the rest may or may not follow....We do not know much about the relationship of Stanley Ann and Obie Sr except they separated sometime before the September 1961. When Stanley Ann left Hawaii for Washington St, did Obie Sr. even know where she went? Did he care? Did he make a deal to not fight custody in return for her not demanding child support allowing Obie Sr to continue with school? Did his opportunity to go to Harvard enter into his decision making process?

My original point thus stands. There was nothing to gain by committing fraud to register his birth. Obama's mom could have easily obtained US citizenship for him legally even if he had been born in Kenya. It would have taken 5 years, but so what? The fact that she was a US citizen gave her access to all the welfare programs she would ever want.

My reply is as above, your conclusion should be predicated on correct information. Is it?

Lets go back and look at the problem as it would have evolved in 1961. IF Obie was born in Kenya and mom and he were in Kenya. First, how would Obie return to the USA? If he had a fraudulent Hawaii Birth Certificate he could return, if not how would he enter the US? What documents would he use? Would he not be a Kenyan citizen, have a Kenyan Passport and need a US Visa to enter the US? What category of visa would he be eligible for? Would both parents have to sign his visa application? How long would it take to get the visa? How long before he could become a citizen and what would he have to do to become a citizen? Could he give up his US residence and travel to Indonesia? Would that affect his visa status and ability to naturalize? All these things make it much simpler and give reason for mom to try and get him a fraudulent Hawaiian birth certificate, do they not?

Once again what evidence is there Obie was born in any hospital?

416 posted on 12/10/2009 9:41:48 AM PST by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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To: rolling_stone
So please point out where you get your information that in 1961 Obie's mom would have had to wait 5 years to apply for his naturalization and could apply on his behalf? (hint this is before 1995)

Title III, Chapter 2 of the Immigration and Nationality act of 1952, which was the law governing immigration an naturalization at the time.

First, how would Obie return to the USA? If he had a fraudulent Hawaii Birth Certificate he could return, if not how would he enter the US?

Under Title I, section 101 of the same act, any child of a US citizen is entitled to non-quota immigrant status. Under Title II section 203, conciliar officals, upon proof that the child in question is the offspring of a US citizen (i.e. upon showing mama Obama's passport and bambi's BC), are required to grant visas to such children.

Bottom line: it would have been very easy for mama Obama to bring Bambi back into the USA and to naturalize him without committing fraud.

As to answer some of your other questions:

If Obie jr was born in Kenya would Obie Sr even know mama fraudulently registered his birth in Hawaii?

Well, if Obie Sr. got into a custody dispute with mama Obama, and she produced a Hawaiian birth certificate, I think that would tip him off.

Would you rather fight for your child with the child in Kenya (foreign to you) or in the United States?

Irrelevant, since we've already established that she did not need to committ fraud to allow him to enter the USA.

Tell me how a Hawaii court will accept a foreign birth certificate over a Hawaiian one?

Well, if the sole basis of the birth certificate is sworn testimony from grandma, and the presumed father disputes the validity of this testimony (and he would be the presumed father, since he was married to mama Obama at the time of bambi's birth), and further he can produce an official document to support his case, then it seems to me any court would take that very seriously.

What category of visa would he be eligible for?

Nonquota immigrant visa.

Would both parents have to sign his visa application?

There is nothing in the law requiring it.

How long would it take to get the visa?

The law instructs consular officials to grant the visa upon proof of eligibility, so it seems that it would be pretty quick.

How long before he could become a citizen and what would he have to do to become a citizen?

5 years. The procedures for naturalizing children of US citizens were never particularly difficult.

Could he give up his US residence and travel to Indonesia? Would that affect his visa status and ability to naturalize?

He didn't travel to Indonesia until he was six, by which time he already would have been naturalized.

But even if he traveled abroad before then, there would be nothing to impede him getting naturalized. So long as he had a non-quota immigrant visa, he could enter and re-enter the US without restriction. So long as he did not interupt the 5 year period of residence, he would be eligible for naturalization at age 5.

And even if he did interupt that period of residence, all he would have to do to get US citienship is reside within the United States for a period of 5 years before his 18th birthday, fill out some forms, take an oath, etc.

All these things make it much simpler and give reason for mom to try and get him a fraudulent Hawaiian birth certificate, do they not?

Not when you consider the fact that by committing fraud, she would be risking a felony conviction.

Why risk a felony conviction if you can relatively easily 1) obtain an immigrant visa for your child and 2) get him naturalized once he's lived in the US for 5 years?

417 posted on 12/10/2009 11:27:15 AM PST by curiosity
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