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To: rolling_stone
So please point out where you get your information that in 1961 Obie's mom would have had to wait 5 years to apply for his naturalization and could apply on his behalf? (hint this is before 1995)

Title III, Chapter 2 of the Immigration and Nationality act of 1952, which was the law governing immigration an naturalization at the time.

First, how would Obie return to the USA? If he had a fraudulent Hawaii Birth Certificate he could return, if not how would he enter the US?

Under Title I, section 101 of the same act, any child of a US citizen is entitled to non-quota immigrant status. Under Title II section 203, conciliar officals, upon proof that the child in question is the offspring of a US citizen (i.e. upon showing mama Obama's passport and bambi's BC), are required to grant visas to such children.

Bottom line: it would have been very easy for mama Obama to bring Bambi back into the USA and to naturalize him without committing fraud.

As to answer some of your other questions:

If Obie jr was born in Kenya would Obie Sr even know mama fraudulently registered his birth in Hawaii?

Well, if Obie Sr. got into a custody dispute with mama Obama, and she produced a Hawaiian birth certificate, I think that would tip him off.

Would you rather fight for your child with the child in Kenya (foreign to you) or in the United States?

Irrelevant, since we've already established that she did not need to committ fraud to allow him to enter the USA.

Tell me how a Hawaii court will accept a foreign birth certificate over a Hawaiian one?

Well, if the sole basis of the birth certificate is sworn testimony from grandma, and the presumed father disputes the validity of this testimony (and he would be the presumed father, since he was married to mama Obama at the time of bambi's birth), and further he can produce an official document to support his case, then it seems to me any court would take that very seriously.

What category of visa would he be eligible for?

Nonquota immigrant visa.

Would both parents have to sign his visa application?

There is nothing in the law requiring it.

How long would it take to get the visa?

The law instructs consular officials to grant the visa upon proof of eligibility, so it seems that it would be pretty quick.

How long before he could become a citizen and what would he have to do to become a citizen?

5 years. The procedures for naturalizing children of US citizens were never particularly difficult.

Could he give up his US residence and travel to Indonesia? Would that affect his visa status and ability to naturalize?

He didn't travel to Indonesia until he was six, by which time he already would have been naturalized.

But even if he traveled abroad before then, there would be nothing to impede him getting naturalized. So long as he had a non-quota immigrant visa, he could enter and re-enter the US without restriction. So long as he did not interupt the 5 year period of residence, he would be eligible for naturalization at age 5.

And even if he did interupt that period of residence, all he would have to do to get US citienship is reside within the United States for a period of 5 years before his 18th birthday, fill out some forms, take an oath, etc.

All these things make it much simpler and give reason for mom to try and get him a fraudulent Hawaiian birth certificate, do they not?

Not when you consider the fact that by committing fraud, she would be risking a felony conviction.

Why risk a felony conviction if you can relatively easily 1) obtain an immigrant visa for your child and 2) get him naturalized once he's lived in the US for 5 years?

417 posted on 12/10/2009 11:27:15 AM PST by curiosity
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To: curiosity
...So please point out where you get your information that in 1961 Obie's mom would have had to wait 5 years to apply for his naturalization and could apply on his behalf? (hint this is before 1995)

Title III, Chapter 2 of the Immigration and Nationality act of 1952, which was the law governing immigration an naturalization at the time.

Which particular section are you referring to? By the way its also referred to as the McCarren-Walter Act and became effective 12-24-52.

...First, how would Obie return to the USA? If he had a fraudulent Hawaii Birth Certificate he could return, if not how would he enter the US?

Under Title I, section 101 of the same act, any child of a US citizen is entitled to non-quota immigrant status. Under Title II section 203, conciliar officals, upon proof that the child in question is the offspring of a US citizen (i.e. upon showing mama Obama's passport and bambi's BC), are required to grant visas to such children.

CORRECT.

Bottom line: it would have been very easy for mama Obama to bring Bambi back into the USA and to naturalize him without committing fraud.

Don't think so.

As to answer some of your other questions:

...If Obie jr was born in Kenya would Obie Sr even know mama fraudulently registered his birth in Hawaii?

Well, if Obie Sr. got into a custody dispute with mama Obama, and she produced a Hawaiian birth certificate, I think that would tip him off.

AH yes if they got into a dispute, and if they didn't? Did Obie Sr know Stanley took Obie jr to Washington State?

....Would you rather fight for your child with the child in Kenya (foreign to you) or in the United States?

Irrelevant, since we've already established that she did not need to committ fraud to allow him to enter the USA.

We did? So when did Obie Sr allow his son to leave Kenya? Are you familiar with the problems American wives have getting their children back to the US from Muslim countries?

...Tell me how a Hawaii court will accept a foreign birth certificate over a Hawaiian one?

Well, if the sole basis of the birth certificate is sworn testimony from grandma, and the presumed father disputes the validity of this testimony (and he would be the presumed father, since he was married to mama Obama at the time of bambi's birth), and further he can produce an official document to support his case, then it seems to me any court would take that very seriously.

Yeah presumed bigamous father is going to testify and get nailed for bigamy in Hawaii. Is he that stupid? He would be easily impeached.

....What category of visa would he be eligible for?

Nonquota immigrant visa.

CORRECT IR-2 child of US citizen.

...Would both parents have to sign his visa application?

There is nothing in the law requiring it.

Really? How about an application for naturalization?

...How long would it take to get the visa?

The law instructs consular officials to grant the visa upon proof of eligibility, so it seems that it would be pretty quick.

Have you ever dealt with the State Department, US Embassies overseas? Do you have any idea how long it would take?

...How long before he could become a citizen and what would he have to do to become a citizen?

5 years. The procedures for naturalizing children of US citizens were never particularly difficult.

Im still waiting for you to provide the applicable section of law that says that.

...Could he give up his US residence and travel to Indonesia? Would that affect his visa status and ability to naturalize? ...

He didn't travel to Indonesia until he was six, by which time he already would have been naturalized.

As above, still waiting for you to provide the law you state is applicable. And then we are to believe Soetoro would let his step son or adopted child become a US Citizen while planning on returning to Indonesia? A leap of faith IMO.

But even if he traveled abroad before then, there would be nothing to impede him getting naturalized. So long as he had a non-quota immigrant visa, he could enter and re-enter the US without restriction. So long as he did not interupt the 5 year period of residence, he would be eligible for naturalization at age 5.

Wrong. (hint) Residency is different for a LAPR or person Lawfully Admitted for Permanent Residency than to be Naturalized.

And even if he did interupt that period of residence, all he would have to do to get US citienship is reside within the United States for a period of 5 years before his 18th birthday, fill out some forms, take an oath, etc.

So he could naturalize before he is 18? Where is that in the law?

....All these things make it much simpler and give reason for mom to try and get him a fraudulent Hawaiian birth certificate, do they not?

Not when you consider the fact that by committing fraud, she would be risking a felony conviction.

So lying on her divorce and Obie Sr lying about his previous marriage isn't risking a felony conviction?

Why risk a felony conviction if you can relatively easily 1) obtain an immigrant visa for your child and 2) get him naturalized once he's lived in the US for 5 years?

Hehehehe, is Obies daddy the Kenyan Colonel going to naturalize?

418 posted on 12/10/2009 1:47:48 PM PST by rolling_stone (no more bailouts, the taxpayers are out of money!)
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