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Do obese people deserve medical treatment? (smokers, drinkers, hang gliders, homosexuals)
Tucson Libertarian Examiner ^ | September 15, 2009 | Adam Maji

Posted on 12/05/2009 9:34:32 AM PST by Still Thinking

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1 posted on 12/05/2009 9:34:33 AM PST by Still Thinking
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To: Still Thinking

What about soldiers that volunteer to go into a war zone?


2 posted on 12/05/2009 9:36:00 AM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: Still Thinking

YES, they are human.

And my father who needed a quadruple bypass and with my sister who has MS deserve treatment as well.

WE ALL DESERVE TREATMENT. GET IT?


3 posted on 12/05/2009 9:36:08 AM PST by GOP_Lady
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To: Still Thinking

They deserve anything they can pay for.


4 posted on 12/05/2009 9:36:40 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: Still Thinking

Boom! There it is! I’ve been saying it since before Obama was elected - socialized medicine is the end of your freedom. If healthcare is as critical a resources as its proponents say, why would you put it under government, which can DENY you that care, even if you have the money for it? Or should I say, deny you care, UNLESS YOU DO WHAT THEY SAY.


5 posted on 12/05/2009 9:36:40 AM PST by domenad (In all things, in all ways, at all times, let honor guide me.)
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To: Still Thinking

If you vote democrat, should we pay for your neurological care? (You obviously need it.)


6 posted on 12/05/2009 9:36:44 AM PST by samtheman
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To: Still Thinking

Send this guy for free psychiatric care and reeducation.


7 posted on 12/05/2009 9:37:26 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: Still Thinking

Do Liberals deserve medical treatment beyond abortion? They asked first.


8 posted on 12/05/2009 9:37:26 AM PST by Steamburg ( Your wallet speaks the only language most politicians understand.)
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To: Still Thinking

This way of thinking is disgusting. Maybe the people who THINK this way should be denied care because they obviously are lacking a heart and have no soul at all.

JMHO


9 posted on 12/05/2009 9:38:33 AM PST by EggsAckley (There's an Ethiopian in the fuel supply. W.C. Fields)
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To: Still Thinking

The government run “healthcare” will obviously decide which lifestyle it likes, and which lifestyle it hates.

Druggies, the anal sex crowd, aids patients from other countries, women having abortions, elderly being forced out of life, will all get favored treatment in government run “healthcare.”

Obese, elderly cancer patients will get nothing.


10 posted on 12/05/2009 9:38:54 AM PST by Leftism is Mentally Deranged
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To: Still Thinking

The National Socialist believed in the very same BS.
Amazing how someone spouts this *rap and then wonders why people wonder if they are suffering from a mental problem.


11 posted on 12/05/2009 9:39:15 AM PST by Marty62 (former Marty60)
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To: GOP_Lady

Deserve it in the sense that they can buy or I can buy it for them?


12 posted on 12/05/2009 9:40:28 AM PST by cowtowney
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To: All
For all you guys who say "yes, treat them" I'm with you. I like this comment from the site:
Exactly. If you don't want to treat a certain segment of our population for the results of willingly , then those segments should be defined and exempted from paying INTO the system. Somehow I never hear those who don't want to treat these people out of fairness to other recipients alarmed about the fairness of making them pay but not allowing them to collect.

Then there's the whole issue of politically correct high-risk populations. Those who want to shut the gates on smokers, drinkers, fatties, and bungee jumpers never seem to want to do the same to active homosexuals, a population willingly engaging in a behavior that leads to a higher risk of an illness that’s VERY expensive to treat. Now read carefully, I’m not taking the opposite inconsistent position, that it WOULD be fair to allow homosexuals to pay in and then be denied treatment. I’m just pointing out that the proponents of restrictions are inconsistent PC hypocrites.

But really, all this paradoxical situation does is show that government shouldn't have a high degree of involvement in our lives. Every time they do, these hard choices arise. The government intrudes in our life in one area without invitation, then uses that involvement to justify further intrusion.


13 posted on 12/05/2009 9:40:30 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Still Thinking

The Democrats, not being human beings, will deny health care to anyone that isn’t one of their species. This, unfortunately, excludes fat people, hang glider dudes and Repubican oldsters.


14 posted on 12/05/2009 9:41:02 AM PST by IbJensen (Merry Christmas to everyone, especially the ACLU)
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To: samtheman

Dude, I’m on your side on this one. Really.


15 posted on 12/05/2009 9:41:18 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Still Thinking

It is with extreme sadness that anyone who considers themselves to be free men would even contemplate this issue.


16 posted on 12/05/2009 9:42:46 AM PST by dforest (Who is the real Jim Thompson? I am.)
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To: Natural Law
They deserve anything they can pay for.

Exactly. Health care is not a right.

17 posted on 12/05/2009 9:44:23 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Still Thinking

90% of congress is obese... so no, they do not


18 posted on 12/05/2009 9:44:35 AM PST by Porterville ( I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubble gum)
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To: Still Thinking

“...there is no rational way to allocate property taken by force...”

People are still going to look out for their own interests first, but introducing government into the equation will change whose interests are at stake. What socialized medicine does is substitute an economic decision made by the people directly involved into a political decision made by outsiders.

How it is that someone could think that — drawing from the same pool of ‘selfish’ people — having it so there is a monopoly that is enforced by the coercive power of government is somehow going to be more compassionate or efficient baffles me.


19 posted on 12/05/2009 9:45:27 AM PST by walford (http://the-big-pic.org)
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To: Still Thinking

Do people “deserve” food? Since we are talking health, and since food is indispensable to health, how long until they reach the logical conclusion that “we” as a society surely have a right to food at taxpayers expense.


20 posted on 12/05/2009 9:45:56 AM PST by mtrott
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To: Still Thinking

Do (obese) people deserve sunshine?


21 posted on 12/05/2009 9:46:58 AM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: Still Thinking
But the premise that someone has "a right to healthcare" means "a right to" seize values by force from those who produce them and give them to those who did not earn them. In such a slave society, people exist and produce values by permission, to the degree in which those in power find them useful. Whether their values are seized directly, such as in socialism, or are nominally theirs but controlled by the state, such as in the fascist state our healthcare system is in, is irrelevant.

Unfortunately, we are already here. If not in practice, it is in mindset by a near majority of citizens in one degree or another.

22 posted on 12/05/2009 9:46:59 AM PST by Jagdgewehr (The GOP faithful want me to believe I have only two voting options......"bad" and "worse")
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To: Still Thinking
The fact that such a question needs to be asked is frightening. This is exactly what led Germany to the concentration camps. Once you start asking who deserves medical care, it's a short half step to asking who should be allowed to live. Yeah, yeah ....can't happen here. Don't be too sure.

Already we have Zeke Emanual, the man who wants to scrap the Hippocratic oath, advising the Kenyan warlord. We're all supposed to line up for this in the name of reduced costs, which won't happen. What about ethics? We've seen how government ethics work with the IRS. If you can't pay your taxes, SCREW YOU! We'll take your home and everything else. We're heading for the day when it will be, "Oh you're too fat SCREW YOU!!! No more blood pressure meds!".

23 posted on 12/05/2009 9:48:26 AM PST by YankeeReb (There's no such thing as Free Health care OR a JOBLESS RECOVERY)
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To: Natural Law
They deserve anything they can pay for.

Yup. The only moral way to ration health care is through good old Supply and Demand. This is true for everything. It's always been true. You can have anything you can pay for.

The problem (of course) is that as we move further and further from a market-based health care system, the government-imposed mandates become a bigger disturbance in the chain of supply.

If virtually everyone's current healthcare provider covers mammograms for women in their 40's, then that's great. But as soon as the government determines that mammogras are not needed by this group, you can bet that virtually everyone's healthcare provider will stop providing such coverage.

At that point, we've left Supply and Demand behind, and we are left to deal with the fallout of what our masters feel we deserve to have.

There is no freedom down that road.

24 posted on 12/05/2009 9:48:35 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Play the Race Card -- lose the game.)
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To: Jagdgewehr

That is exactly why it is so important to force every citizen to pay at least some federal income tax. Half the population thinks the federal coffers grow on trees, since they pay no income tax.


25 posted on 12/05/2009 9:49:19 AM PST by mtrott
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To: cowtowney
I guess you don't get it.

We're all in the same boat together -- we're not in particular groups.

Here:


"I simply turn on the Golden EIB Microphone and share my honest passions and beliefs with people.
And they're free to go elsewhere.
They're free to ignore; they're free to believe; they're free to be entertained, I don't care.
They're free to do whatever they want.
But a lot of people aren't free to smoke cigarettes where they want;
they're not free to drink where they want;
they're not free to eat the kind of food they want to eat;
they're not free to eat trans fats;
they're not free to drive certain places.
Pretty soon we're going to be told what kind of cars we have to drive.
I can't cause that.
I can't restrict anybody's freedom.
We've elected a guy who can, does, and wants to, all under the guise of saving us.
So I appreciate the effort, and I appreciate somewhat losing my temper here.
But don't compare me ever to an authoritarian who thinks so little of people that without him they can barely breathe on their own.
Don't ever do that."

LEARN IT, LOVE IT, LIVE IT!

If one cannot understand Rush's words above, then one does not truly understand FREEDOM!


26 posted on 12/05/2009 9:49:52 AM PST by GOP_Lady
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To: Natural Law

Will they be allowed to pay for it under Obamacare?


27 posted on 12/05/2009 9:49:53 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Still Thinking
What about people who bite their nails?

They are just ASKING to catch something nasty.

Let's not forget to put them on the list.

28 posted on 12/05/2009 9:50:03 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (I miss the competent fiscal policy and flag waving patriotism of the Carter Administration)
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To: mamelukesabre

BY THIS IDIOTS THINKING no THEY chose TO ENDANGER THEIR WELL BEING SOOOOOOO, NO HEALTH CARE FOR THEM.

This is the type of thinking you get when the inmates start running the asylum.


29 posted on 12/05/2009 9:51:41 AM PST by Marty62 (former Marty60)
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To: Natural Law
They deserve anything they can pay for.

They are more likely to pay for it than drug addicts, ghetto fathers who impregnate multiple women, illegal aliens, young adults, etc...

30 posted on 12/05/2009 9:52:03 AM PST by dragonblustar ("... and if you disagree with me, then you sir, are worse than Hitler!" - Greg Gutfeld)
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To: dfwgator

Yes, but the “pursuit” of life liberty and happiness is a right. That could be interpreted as including the attempt to acquire medical care when desired.

If a government pre-judges a class or type of individual as undeserving of public health care, is the government not violating rights?


31 posted on 12/05/2009 9:54:37 AM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: Still Thinking
It is the left who wants to turn health care into a RIGHT...of if Americans have a RIGHT to healthcare, then ALL AMERICANS have the RIGHT to healthcare...or...it then becomes a CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE, and a CONSITITUTIONAL ISSUE.

However, as the liberals all say, the best CURE is PREVENTION...so we need to PREVENT this healthcare boondoggle from every seeing the light of day by exercising our other RIGHTS, the FIRST AMENDMENT, which is protected by the SECOND AMENDMENT.

Also, we need to change the rhetoric...if this debacle comes to fruition, "protest" and "march" should be two words that morph into "invade". We need to show Washington (non-violent) "shock and awe"...a few million people to just jam the city into lockdown.

We can either go and camp out on the capitol steps now, or wait until they put us all into tents where we will have to "camp out" for the rest of our lives.

ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS - FEAR IS NOT AN OPTION
32 posted on 12/05/2009 9:55:28 AM PST by FrankR (SENATE: You cram it down our throats in '09, We'll shove it up your ass in '10...count on it.)
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To: GOP_Lady
WE ALL DESERVE TREATMENT. GET IT?

Who deserves to pay for it?

33 posted on 12/05/2009 9:56:23 AM PST by Drew68
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To: mamelukesabre
Yes, but the “pursuit” of life liberty and happiness is a right.

Well then you had better pursue obtaining the means to pay for your health care.

34 posted on 12/05/2009 9:57:19 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: dragonblustar
What I see as a (one of many, many, many) missed opportunity for the GOP on the health-care debate is the specious argument about the relative cost of health-care in the US. We can all accept that we have the best health-care in the world. We can also accept that those who pay the most, whether for luxury cars, big houses, restaurant meals, first class tickets, etc. get better products. I never thought it was a good idea to implement a lowest bid process for heart surgery.
35 posted on 12/05/2009 9:57:20 AM PST by Natural Law
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To: Drew68

That’s what has yet to be decided.

EVERYONE should PAY SOMETHING for healthcare — EVERYONE.


36 posted on 12/05/2009 9:58:03 AM PST by GOP_Lady
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To: GOP_Lady

Rush forgot to say that people aren’t free to use recreational drugs, to sell recreational drugs, to sell sexual services, to buy sexual services or to procure lethal drugs to commit suicide. A lot more people would like to have those freedoms than the freedom to eat trans fats.


37 posted on 12/05/2009 9:59:31 AM PST by edweena
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To: Still Thinking
Mary, who has problems because has a tendency towards obesity which she does not try to control with diet or exercise,

I do so! It's a metabolic disorder, I tell ya'.

38 posted on 12/05/2009 10:00:32 AM PST by Jemian
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To: Leftism is Mentally Deranged

IMHO anyone who needs anything beyond basic care will find that they get no care or care will come too late. There is a reason30% more people die of cancer in countries with this sort of healthcare system. The wait weeds them out. I’m personally petrified since I am a type 1 diabetic and am at the 39 year mark but still in relatively good health. What happens in 15 years when something major could happen and I’m 64 yo? Right now my private insurace would take care of me at 80%.


39 posted on 12/05/2009 10:05:31 AM PST by chris_bdba
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To: Still Thinking

They’ll cover AIDS drugs but not anything obesity related.


40 posted on 12/05/2009 10:05:31 AM PST by VeniVidiVici (Obamacare should cover lobotomies for Democrats)
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To: dfwgator

Agree.

But once government takes over all health care...that changes the whole argument.

Doesn’t it?


41 posted on 12/05/2009 10:06:18 AM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: mamelukesabre

Well when that happens it’s all over for this country.


42 posted on 12/05/2009 10:07:24 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: edweena

He also has said in the past:

once everything is illegal, then nothing is illegal.


43 posted on 12/05/2009 10:07:41 AM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: GOP_Lady
EVERYONE should PAY SOMETHING for healthcare — EVERYONE.

I do....for me and my family. I do not want the state to confiscate more of my wages to pay for "everyone" else at my expense and that of my dependents. I gladly pay for emergency first responder care....fire, paramedic, police....for my community. Apart from that, the rest is up to each individual.

44 posted on 12/05/2009 10:09:14 AM PST by Jagdgewehr (The GOP faithful want me to believe I have only two voting options......"bad" and "worse")
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To: dfwgator

What I’m trying to point out is a paradox in the lefty’s thinking.

They are arguing that health care is a right and that is why government should provide free health care to all...and in doing so, they will destroy free market health care.

But they also say that to make it cost effective they will limit or deny care to certain individuals in certain circumstances to eliminate waste that pervades the current free market health care system.

Is that not a paradox?

If the government takes over health care and in the process destroys free market health care for the purpose of providing free health care to all, but to balance the books and cut “waste” must deny care to some...see where I’m going with this?

WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? They just destroyed their own purpose for starting this whole mess in the first place.

But worse than that, they will be violating our rights (pursuit of happiness) for the purpose of guaranteeing a right that doesn’t exist (free health care to all), and they can’t even make good on that promise either!

We lose everything and gain nothing.

I don’t understand why people cant see this.


45 posted on 12/05/2009 10:18:54 AM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: Still Thinking

The only people who should be denied treatment are journalists and politicians.


46 posted on 12/05/2009 10:19:58 AM PST by calex59
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To: Still Thinking

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. When I said “you obviously need it” I was speaking to “those who vote democrat”, not to you. Poor wording on my part.


47 posted on 12/05/2009 10:20:53 AM PST by samtheman
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To: samtheman

Oh, OK. Gotcha. There were several post from Freepers who seemed to think I agreed with the idea, and I was just pointing out the perils of allowing government into our lives.


48 posted on 12/05/2009 10:23:15 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: rockrr

Do killers(Hasan) shot by police deserve health care after they assasinate 13 people and wound 30 more?


49 posted on 12/05/2009 10:23:37 AM PST by oldironsides
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To: Still Thinking

How about pregnant women; afterall, it is a choice isn’t it?


50 posted on 12/05/2009 10:24:21 AM PST by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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