. . . Update at #177.
[Thanks, Danae.]
Posted on 12/05/2009 10:43:07 AM PST by Danae
With so many lawsuits filed every day in America, one more might seem irrelevant. There is one however that should be watched, but will most likely escape notice. For a little while at any rate…
*snip*
Neil Cavuto welcomed former Chrysler dealer James Anderer to his show on Fox Business News Daily to talk about a case that has been filed by a group of dealers who lost their businesses in the Washington D.C. District Court. Lead Plaintiff Anderer mentioned a team of legal experts while describing the case to Cavuto, and an anonymous source has named Leo Donofrio and Steve Pidgeon as having been retained by a group of Chrysler dealers who lost their franchise in the Chrysler bankruptcy sale. They have been retained to bring two actions:
1. A motion to reconsider the Court's approval of the dealer rejections. 2. A quo warranto in the D.C. District Court pertaining to Obama and his administration.
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
As the "Thomas Payne" video we see her on F.R., "PRESSURE, PRESSURE, PRESSURE!!!
Wouldn’t he then be called up for perjury, because in his book he write he found an old B.C. and he had some doubts or questions, which he did not detailed???
Like so many of us, I also got a dead-end answer from Okubo; “Access denied”!!!
When you find the video —and I have no doubt that you will, with your formidable researching skills— please ping me to it also. Thanks ...
You have more trust there than I have, remember the last impeachment case???
However, we need to get Marco Rubio elected!!!
That is exactly my point, that was also a smoke screen. He could NOT hammer this and he forbade Palin, but now she is not chained to McLame anymore, PTL!!!
Matthew 10:26!!!
Why would the act of applying for a passport change my status? Again, in the eyes of Italy, I am already an Italian national, even though I'm three American-born generations away from the old country.
I'm just really dubious about any theory of natural born citizenship that allows foreign law to dictate US citizenship status.
While the case was dismissed it was dismissed after a finding that the district court did have subject matter jurisdiction and was then dismissued under Rule 12(b)(6) for failulre to state a claim. This assumes standing because it addresses the merits by stating that a claim pursuant to admitted subject matter jurisdiction has not been stated sufficiently to make out a claim. Soetoro a/k/a Obmaa and Biden did not counter appeal the finding of subject matter jurisdiction although that will not stop the issue from coming up on appeal. So at this point it is the only case in which standing has not been denied as a basis for dismissal and was in fact found, albeit without significant discussion. The lower court's finding was that because of the federal interpleader act it hsd subject matter jurisdiction.
Birthers have to make this stuff up as they go along.
You then officially in the U.S. becomes a dual citizen and dual citizens cannot be President of the U.S. except for this affirmative action, illegal alien, and usurper who sneaked into the W.H. by the biggest political fraud the nation has ever seen and what our forefathers fought against!!!
A couple of problems with that idea. First off, you're still allowing foreign law to dictate a US citizen's status. Second, Italy doesn't share its list of who has applied for an Italian passport with the US government anymnore than the US informs Italy of everyone who has applied for a US passport. There's no mechanism by which the US would ever know. The only US law is that persons holding a US passport must use that passport to enter and leave the US. Once at their destination, and at any other point in their travels prior to reentering the US, they can use any passport.
In the same way, lots of constitutional scholars say if Obama was born in HI and even if his father was a UK subject, Obama is a constitutional “natural born citizen” because of the 14th amendment and Wong Kim Ark. I disagree, but only a Supreme Court decision can ultimately refute them. If the Supreme Court ruled against him, Obama’s ineligibility based on his UK subject father might not apply retroactively and he might get a pass. No one including Obama can say for certain how the Supreme Court would rule on D’Onofrio’s theory of Obama’s ineligibility.
In contrast, there is near total agreement that if Obama was born outside the US and not even on or near a US base to two US citizen parents, he would not be a natural born citizen. It has been beaten into the public brain that an HI birth is the single thing that makes his a natural born citizen.
If Obama hid a foreign birth or knew that his HI vital records had been amended and hid it, that would be fraud. Even this Democratic Congress would impeach Obama for such a fraud, in my view.
I believe that retroactive citizenship would be more than just a long shot. It is a circumstance of Birth. Wong Kim Ark was quite clearly decided to be a citizen, but NOT a natural Born Citizen and the decision makes that very clear distinction.
If anything, Wong Kim Ark makes the distinction between citizen and Natural Born citizen very clear.
Read this article carefully, it is dated from 1884, during the term of another unconstitutional President,Chester Arthur.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19071886/Are-Persons-Born-Within-the-United-States-Ipso-Facto-Citizens-Thereof-George-D-Collins
It is very clear, Citizens born in the country, of a father who is an alien, are NOT natural Born citizens.
You and I agree with that, and we probably agreed with 2nd Amendment gun rights before Heller.
But as with Heller, until SCOTUS agrees with us, we just have a nonenforceable opinion. So far even Heller is only law in the circuits that have adopted it as Heller has not yet been “incorporated” as applicable to all states by SCOTUS.
Heller actually gives me hope that the Supremes can step up and resolve a 200+ year-old dispute. If D’Onofrio’s quo warranto discovery reaches SCOTUS and Obama doesn't duck out by claiming that his mother was a legally single US citizen due to a bigamous marriage to his father, maybe we will finally have a ruling on whether a natural born citizen can be a dual citizen at birth.
“Obama doesn’t duck out by claiming that his mother was a legally single US citizen due to a bigamous marriage to his father, maybe we will finally have a ruling on whether a natural born citizen can be a dual citizen at birth.”
This would crack me up to no end! I would likely herniate myself laughing! No seriously..... he would need more than just a bit of luck with that, since his BIRTH CERTIFICATE is the legal document that he has been using to certify that he is an NBC... ROFL... he would have to use his.... wait for it... LMAO... LONG FORM.... and get his own “Legitimate” birth.... (giggling) turned into a ... BASTARDIZATION! ROFLMAO..... It might just be worth it to see Obama sty to swallow his own ego to do that! HAHAHA
No I don’t think that is a likely scenario..... Obama reversing course on that issue is just inconceivable.
“No I don’t think that is a likely scenario..... Obama reversing course on that issue is just inconceivable.”
Danae:
In “Dreams” Obama said he didn't dare investigate whether his parents were actually married for fear he would find they were not, so Obama actually presented himself in his own biography as perceiving himself to likely be illegitimate.
Obama has a long relationship with Kezia, his father's first wife, who told DailyMail BHO Sr was a bigamist. Most bios of BHO Sr on the web refer to Stanley Ann as his second wife, but there is no evidence of divorce from Kezia. The HI vital record of the Dunham-Obama marriage in HI was only disclosed this year.
Under the BNA of 1948 that “governs” Obama, he can't receive UK nationality from his father if he is foreign born illegitimate. The BNA of 1948 further states that a marriage must be legitimate in the country in which it was performed, which excludes HI a a location for any Muslim multiple marriage.
Who is it that dangled “governed by BNA of 1948” before us? It was Obama. Do you trust him? I don't. I will assume as little as possible and attempt to verify everything fully.
Look at it this way, had Fukino just said “birth certificate” then the birthers would be complaining that Hawaii must have other information that they are covering up or refusing to release because the state maintains vital records that cover more than just birth information.
Ref: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/usvss.pdf
Excerpt from the introduction:
“Vital statistics for the United States are obtained
from the official records of live births, deaths, fetal
deaths, marriages, divorces, and annulments. The official
recording of these events is the responsibility of
the individual States and independent registration
areas (District of Columbia, New York City, and territories)
in which the event occurs; the Federal Government
obtains use of the records for statistical purposes
through a cooperative arrangement with the responsible
agency in each State.”
See also: http://www.vitalrec.com/
Excerpt:
“In general, vital records weren’t kept in the United States until the early 1900s. Vital records usually contain the full name of the individual involved in the event, the date of the event, and the county, state, or town where the event took place. Many vital records contain much more information. For example, birth records usually have the parent’s full names, the name of the baby, the date of the birth, and county where the birth took place, marriage records often record the names and birthplaces of each individual’s parents. Divorce records usually list the names of the couple’s children. Death certificates often mention where the individual will be buried, and also give the name of the individual who reported the death. and death certificate.”
Or: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vital_record
Excerpt:
“Vital records are records of life events kept under governmental authority, including birth certificates, marriage licenses, and death certificates. In some jurisdictions, vital records may also include records of civil unions or domestic partnerships. In the United States, vital records are typically maintained at the state level.”
“No. Under Italian law, I inherited Italian citizenship from my mother, who inherited it from her father, who inherited it from his father. I don’t have to apply for it. I only need to prove the lineage and I can get an Italian passport.”
No way I’m voting for you for President now.
LOL I wasn’t saying I trusted the man. Quite the opposite! LOL
I was saying he will be the last person to ever go that direction! LOL
The question here then is, if this marriage was a LEGAL, or a "tribal" marriage, hmmmm???
Second, I believe Italy has to follow the same rules as the other E.U. countries!!!
My understanding is that tribal marriages are in fact legal in Kenya and prevent subsequent marriages from being legal:
See Kenya Marriage Act of 1902 paragraph #49:
49. Whoever contracts a marriage under this Act, being at the time married in accordance with native law or custom or in accordance with Mohammedan law to any person other than the person with whom such marriage is contracted, shall be guilty of an offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.
kenyalaw.org/family/statutes/...?file=The+marriage+act.pdf
My opinion is that folks who assert a conclusion that Obama is a dual citizen are overstating certainty that the BNA of 1948 would make Obama II a UK subject. The 1948 BNA explicitly excludes illegitimate children from becoming UK subjects automatically through their UK fathers at birth.
Obama has thrown anyone and anything “under the bus” that stood in his way, and I have no doubt that any embarrassment over declaring himself to be the child of a bigamous marriage would hold him back if it would save his eligibility when he already put out the likelihood that he was the bastard child of two unmarried people in Dreams.
I greatly value and agree (as a non-lawyer) with Leo D’Onofrio’s exploration of the original meaning of “natural born citizen” and I hope he gets a chance to obtain a SCOTUS ruling in line with his conclusions (5-4 of course, like Heller). But D'Onofrio's analysis fails if the 1948 BNA doesn't actually make Obamaa a UK subject and dual citizen as a result of bigamy.
Would SCOTUS invalidate Obama's presidency simply because Obama's father was a bigamous non-citizen, even if it was determined that Obama's citizenship was solely US from his legally single mother with no UK citizenship, no legal dual sovereignty that the founding father's were concerned with? I doubt it.
What is most critical is that D’Onofrio’s “best evidence” discovery of Obama’s HI so-called NBC vital records will open the possibility of a foreign (Kenya) birth. Given Obama’s mother's age Obama wouldn't even be a citizen. If a foreign (Kenya) birth is proved, I believe SCOTUS would affirm Obama's ineligibility 9-0, despite grousing by Ginsberg.
There are a lot of reasons. One big one is that employers find an employee that can work anywhere in the EU without a work permit to be attractive. For another, it makes it much easier to buy property in Italy.
Second, I believe Italy has to follow the same rules as the other E.U. countries!!!
If you don't believe what I'm saying, google "Italian dual citizenship." There are a number of companies that explain the details and will help do the paperwork.
It must have been a huge-huge pill for Barry Soetoro to swallow when ho co-signed the same Resolution, huh???
Update, the video is at the link. Its also at Leo’s site.
Yes, he has ... deliberating very diligently,
I’m sure. God be with him, bless his efforts
and protect him.
. . . Update at #177.
[Thanks, Danae.]
Got to thank Starwise! She found it before I did. Had my head in the sand for the last week. Christmas shopping.... ugh.... torture in traffic...... no brain left.
;)
Thanks for the ping, LucyT.
This case may initially slide under the MSM radar; however, it may be the single most serious case to be brought against The Obama Administration and the President himself to date.
I sure hope and pray it is.
Thanks for the ping and pinging some more friends!
Thanks for the update, LucyT.
Ping.
Bump Dat...
Marking my place to read when I can give this my full attention.
Oh, and BUMP!
Lets predict that Obama has a press conference, lets assume he may have it Christmas Day or January 1st, and he openly admits in depth that he failed to meet the Constitutional requirements to be POTUS, thats right, he proclaims to America his deep felt sorrow and has lost weight and sleep with the guilt of having to keep hidden his past all for the good of the country, to give hope to the people, to lead them to a better future.
And more than likely he will admit that he honestly never had a plan to be POTUS but that he was propelled by others that had the firmest strongest faith in him, and now with America losing faith in him and a democratic party tearing itself to pieces over the Health Care initiative that he feels its his duty to those that supported him that he come out in the open and regain trust and transparency.
And the MSM with “incentives” follow a poor black man rising to power against the impossible odds of breaching the racial political walls, of following Martin Luther Kings famous words, etc, etc.
So, don’t throw the boiling oil at me personally this is a scenario we must prepare for, Obama and his profile shows that he may very well do this especially if the Healthcare seems on the verge of being voted out of existence. He will play his hold-out card as the racial sympathy hand.
I recently posted this at another thread but it seems to have died, or the Obots missed it.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2412836/posts?page=7#7
If Rahm E does lose his job in 2010 as predicted IMO BO isn't far behind. Rahm will just be another straw on the camel's back.
Great thread....Dad has said from the git go that it was to be the right case, defendents, plaintiffs (standing) before the SCOTUS will rule....(Otherwise they will table the case waiting for the ‘perfect’ case.)
Have been showing the material to HHH, he says this may be the one. Do we have any of the legal papers so I can have him look through them?
Remember: One card out of place causes the entire house of cards to fall....Ask Tiger or Made=off, they know.
bookmark
. . . . Comment at #190.
Barry O. tried to pass of something that was inconsistent with what the rest of have and know to be a “Birth Certificate”.
The so called COLB has many flaws with it:
The best part and even more confusing is why he didn't release any of the three Birth Certificates we know already existed before 2007.
Those were most certainly BC’s and not a COLB. There is no reason to create confusion but, for the fact he is hiding something. That something will be discovered, though and this is a long process. “I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school. It’s a short piece, with a photograph of him. No mention is made of my mother or me, and I’m left to wonder whether the omission was intentional on my father’s part, in anticipation of his long departure. Perhaps the reporter failed to ask personal questions, intimidated by my father’s imperious manner; or perhaps it was an editorial decision, not part of the simple story that they were looking for. I wonder, too, whether the omission caused a fight between my parents.” From “Dreams From My Father” (Pg. 26 last paragraph) So with all these Birth Certificates lying around, why did he feel it necessary to produce a "Certification of Live Birth" that is inconsistent with a Birth Certificate and wholly lacking all of the information you would find, in you know, a Birth Certificate? He seemed to have some emotional attachment to the Birth Certificate found among his mother’s belongings. Why wouldn’t he just slap that one up, for all the world to see? It seemed important that he found a document that is called a “Birth Certificate” and it is highly unlikely he would not know what one looks like.
Hope no one brings up some house fire that vaporized his BC. That was in 1972 and none of the documents listed here would have been affected by that “fishy” event.
Any thoughts on this case?
The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
Leo’s approach — that Obama can NOT be a Natural Born citizen: even IF he was born in Hawaii (because his father was a foreign national)— is that straight line.
However, I still think his “long form” and other vital records are worth pursuing.
We can go after him from different angles.
We can — as they say — “walk and chew gum at the same time!”
Thank you(and everyone)for your work and dedication to this most important issue, at this critical time in our Nations history.
God bless America!
STE=Q
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