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Diplomacy That Will Live in Infamy
The New York Times ^ | 5 Dec 2009 | JAMES BRADLEY

Posted on 12/06/2009 9:17:05 PM PST by Cronos

SIXTY-EIGHT years ago tomorrow, Japan attacked the American naval base at Pearl Harbor. In the brutal Pacific war that would follow, millions of soldiers and civilians were killed. My father — one of the famous flag raisers on Iwo Jima — was among the young men who went off to the Pacific to fight for his country. So the war naturally fascinated me. But I always wondered, why did we fight in the Pacific? Yes, there was Pearl Harbor, but why did the Japanese attack us in the first place?

... The one who had the greater effect on Japan’s behavior was Theodore Roosevelt — whose efforts to end the war between Japan and Russia earned him the Nobel Peace Prize.

To signal his commitment to Tokyo, Roosevelt cut off relations with Korea, turned the American legation in Seoul over to the Japanese military and deleted the word “Korea” from the State Department’s Record of Foreign Relations and placed it under the heading of “Japan.” ...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Japan
KEYWORDS: eastasia; history; jamesbradley; progressives; roosevelt; teddyroosevelt; tr; war
In planning the attack on Pearl Harbor, Adm. Isoroku Yamamoto was specifically thinking of how, 37 years earlier, the Japanese had surprised the Russian Navy at Port Arthur in Manchuria and, as he wrote, “favorable opportunities were gained by opening the war with a sudden attack on the main enemy fleet.” At the time, the indignant Russians called it a violation of international law. But Theodore Roosevelt, confident that he could influence events in North Asia from afar, wrote to his son, “I was thoroughly well pleased with the Japanese victory, for Japan is playing our game.”
1 posted on 12/06/2009 9:17:06 PM PST by Cronos
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To: Cronos

quite an informative article...


2 posted on 12/06/2009 9:18:44 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca NOW!!!<img src="http://shiitehappens.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/bomb_mecca450.jpg" />)
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To: Cronos
To signal his commitment to Tokyo, Roosevelt cut off relations with Korea, turned the American legation in Seoul over to the Japanese military and deleted the word “Korea” from the State Department’s Record of Foreign Relations and placed it under the heading of “Japan.”

To signal their commitment to China, Clinton, Bush and Obama cut off relations with Tibet, acknowledged control of Lhasa to the Chinese military and deleted the word “Tibet” from all the maps in the world and placed it under the heading of “China.”

3 posted on 12/06/2009 9:25:00 PM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: Cronos
quite an informative article...

Sure. The NYT trashing Teddy Roosevelt is par for the course. Now let's see them print an article about his commie cousin siding with Germany during the '30s.

Don't hold your breath ( or, please, do hold your breath.)

4 posted on 12/06/2009 9:28:07 PM PST by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: Talisker

None of them wanted to fight over Taiwan. Too bad; that battle is inevitable.


5 posted on 12/06/2009 9:30:01 PM PST by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: Cronos
So Pearl Harbor was Teddy Roosevelt's fault. I enjoyed flags of our fathers, but Bradley's 'progressive' tendency to draw parallels between Imperial Japan's actions and America's history is growing tiresome.

Besides, he's been dining out on his father's bravery long enough.

No wonder he and his dad didn't get along too well.

6 posted on 12/06/2009 9:30:24 PM PST by skeeter
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To: buccaneer81
Yikes, good point, I forgot about Taiwan. Our withdrawal of support is an atrocity, but if China actually goes for it they will strip the covers off of their real nature and lose a lot of liberal support.

I'm trying to convince myself they still care about that. : /

7 posted on 12/06/2009 9:34:15 PM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: Cronos

NO.

I also have “read deeply” into the matter and he is wrong.

He quotes Japan’s words back to us to justify their attack on us!

Gee, why not quote Hitler’s words back to us to justify his declaration of war on us, England, Poland, France, and 35 other countries??? It’s pretty much the same, self-serving, words as quoted approvingly by the author in his article.

And why not? Japan and Germany were both Fascist partners in World War II.

Japanese diplomats walked around, comically, wearing Hitler mustaches.

Hitler placed everyone in ovens, Japan placed them on the end of bayonets -— laughingly -— to “toughen up their soldiers in China ———and now it’s our fault!!!

His father may have fought in WW II, as my father did also, but most historians view American diplomacy as a response to Japanese cruelty and non-stop aggression in Asia-— NOT the cause of it.

This author’s (James Bradley) article has the cause and the effect backwards.

WE DID NOT “make” the Japanese attack us at Pearl Harbor, a sneak attack, while we slept ———— they did so, because, like Nazi Germany, they thought the West would weak, and that with a quick strike they could dis-able our fleet, and thus our Pacific power, and have a free romp throughout Asia where,

as a Japanese ex-soldier told the Japan Times, about what he did in the Philippines,

“First we go into the village (during the retreat no less),

and kill all the men and boys.

Then we rape all the women, this takes a day or two;

then we kill all the women and girls so that there are no witnesses.”

Gee, I wonder why all of Asia his bitter bitter memories of the Japanese Army that still linger to this day ——— as do many Americans and British and Aussies.

I wonder.

Long Live the United States of America and never forget Pearl Harbor Day!!!


8 posted on 12/06/2009 9:35:49 PM PST by DontTreadOnMe2009 (So stop treading on me already!)
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To: Cronos

We are in a much worse situation today than we were after the 1941 Pearl Harbor attack. At least the enemy did not invade us as we are today.


9 posted on 12/06/2009 9:39:11 PM PST by 353FMG (Save the Planet -- Eliminate Socialism)
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To: Talisker

good point — the US will live to regret the actions of Clintoon


10 posted on 12/06/2009 9:42:54 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca NOW!!!<img src="http://shiitehappens.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/bomb_mecca450.jpg" />)
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To: buccaneer81

I see the article in the opposite light — showing the mistakes that Ohbummer is making as affecting life in the futur.


11 posted on 12/06/2009 9:43:37 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca NOW!!!<img src="http://shiitehappens.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/bomb_mecca450.jpg" />)
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To: skeeter

well, he doesn’t say it was Teddy’s fault. Most things in history depend on a number of causes. I rather see this article as showing how a powerful nation like the US can impact the future of the world by it’s decisions. So, Obama’s mistakes in the M-E, China, Iran, Pakistan etc. will affect the WORLD’s future.


12 posted on 12/06/2009 9:44:59 PM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca NOW!!!<img src="http://shiitehappens.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/bomb_mecca450.jpg" />)
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To: Cronos
My father was a ranger in Europe in WWII. Two of his brothers were already in the military when the pacific war started and died on the march of Battan. My family still remembers the price that was paid for freedom.
13 posted on 12/06/2009 9:59:50 PM PST by oldenuff2no (I'm a VET and damn proud of it!!! I did not fight for a socialist America!!!!!!!)
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To: buccaneer81

“trashing Teddy Roosevelt is par for the course”

buc81, soon the hip boots won’t be enough, nor the waders. NYT ran this kind of drivel, at a profit pre net. Now it is just a conforming display of publisher’s traditionally filthy underwear, peeking out over his belt buckle.

Rab


14 posted on 12/06/2009 10:00:13 PM PST by Rabin
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To: Rabin

Well said.


15 posted on 12/06/2009 10:07:44 PM PST by buccaneer81 (ECOMCON)
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To: Cronos
Hmmph, read more tomorrow.

I have run across the usual liberal suspects that say it is the US' fault we goaded Japan to attack, i.e. our fault for having the audacity to base our fleet there.

Should have cowered on the mainland I guess..

16 posted on 12/06/2009 10:33:45 PM PST by doorgunner69
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To: Cronos
I read the entire article. It's quite a stretch to conclude that, by Teddy Roosevelt favoring Japan, they would repay that gesture by attacking the US.

In my readings, I have found that KGB agents within the Japan convinced those in charge to secure the oil in the Southeast as opposed to attacking Russia.

Japan's original plan was to assist the faltering Nazi war in Russia by opening a second front in the East. Much to Hitler's chagrin, they took the second option to secure the oil supplies, thus dragging the US into the war.

17 posted on 12/07/2009 2:29:37 AM PST by Texas Jack
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To: doorgunner69

Nah, the way I read this article is, like I stated — the impact made by the US’ decisions TODAY affects the world for decades to come. And that means what O is doing around the world WILL come back to bite the USA’s patootie in the future.


18 posted on 12/07/2009 2:31:51 AM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca NOW!!!<img src="http://shiitehappens.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/bomb_mecca450.jpg" />)
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To: oldenuff2no
Your father and uncles were noble men, worthy of the highest respect. No article discussing some of the historical of the war can in any way lessen the sacrifice paid by those men for their country, or lessen the esteem in which they should be held by all.
19 posted on 12/07/2009 2:34:58 AM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca NOW!!!<img src="http://shiitehappens.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/bomb_mecca450.jpg" />)
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To: Texas Jack

I wonder what would have happened if Japan had NOT attacked the US and instead had hit the Soviets from the East. The US would, most likely, have not joined the war, the Brits would have sued for peace....


20 posted on 12/07/2009 2:36:40 AM PST by Cronos (Nuke Mecca NOW!!!<img src="http://shiitehappens.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/bomb_mecca450.jpg" />)
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To: Cronos
I wonder what would have happened if Japan had NOT attacked the US and instead had hit the Soviets from the East. The US would, most likely, have not joined the war, the Brits would have sued for peace....

Not being clairvoyant, I have no way of postulating such an outcome.

However, more than likely, the lack of oil for their war machine would have brought Japan into conflict with the US.

21 posted on 12/07/2009 3:04:18 AM PST by Texas Jack
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To: Cronos

You’re right about cause & effect, but having read Bradley’s other works, I do know the man’s has the agenda of a leftist relativist college professor.


22 posted on 12/07/2009 7:40:12 AM PST by skeeter
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To: Texas Jack

I suggest reading “Day of Deceipt” before making judgements as to fault. Keep in mind, that by December 7, 1941, FDR was in his ninth year as President; unemployment was still 15% and the Great Depression would not end.

The lapses in security, the ultimatums and the moving of the Pacific Fleet to Hawaii all contributed to Pearl Harbor.


23 posted on 12/07/2009 9:46:18 AM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: NTHockey
Thanks, I've read the book. In fact, I've read several books on the failed Presidency of FDR.

But, that was not what I was addressing. I was addressing the far-fetched connection the author was attempting to make suggesting that Teddy Roosevelt's policies were the prime mover in Japan attacking the US fleet at Pearl Harbor.

I suspect the author of the article would write favorably of FDR.

24 posted on 12/08/2009 1:53:36 AM PST by Texas Jack
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