Skip to comments.2 of 3 accused SEALs to appear in court (outrageous)
Posted on 12/07/2009 9:42:05 AM PST by pissant
RICHMOND, Va.Two Navy SEALs are scheduled to be arraigned Monday in military court on charges that they mistreated an Iraqi suspect in the gory slayings of four U.S. contractors in Fallujah.
One of the SEALs is accused of punching the detainee after his September arrest, while the other is accused of lying to investigators. A third SEAL also accused of lying to investigators about the episode will be arraigned later.
All three men have men have received an outpouring of support from people who view them as heroes. A Facebook page created to support the SEALs had more than 45,000 members as of Friday, and a California congressman is spearheading a campaign to persuade Defense Secretary Robert Gates to intervene.
Petty Officers 2nd Class Matthew McCabe of Perrysburg, Ohio, and Jonathan Keefe of Yorktown, Va., and Petty Officer 1st Class Julio Huertas of Blue Island, Ill., face courts-martial at a date to be determined. Keefe's arraignment has been continued.
The men refused an administrative process known as "nonjudicial punishment" because they feared unfair treatment by military brass, said Neal Puckett, an attorney for McCabe.
"They felt they had already been determined to be guilty," said Puckett.
By refusing to accept the reprimand, the men could face a more serious penalty at court martial, which will be determined by a six-person military jury.
If the men are convicted, they could face up to a year in a military jail, a bad conduct discharge or loss of pay, said Puckett, a retired Marine Corps officer and judge advocate.
(Excerpt) Read more at mercurynews.com ...
If we had used these PC pantywaist rules in WW2, we would have lost.
Outrageous is correct!
Thanks yous go to Rep. Hunter for supporting these SEALs.
In most military circles, Seals get more respect than the Officers around them. I would doubt that the Court Martial will go against them. Remember, Seals can quit the outfit anytime they want. At that point, where will the military be? They are the best the military has. I’m not putting other special services down, it’s just that the Seals are the best.
I hope McCabe knows what he is doing . I do not trust the content of any news article for accuracy but the fact that he made a public statement at all is cause for concern . You do not accept nonjudicial punishment if you have not committed the offense . I sat on two juries while I was in the service and unless everything has gone down the drain in the last 40 years , these men will get a fair trial .
This is Hunter’s letter to Gates:
December 2, 2009
Honorable Robert Gates
Secretary of Defense
Dear Mr. Secretary:
We are writing to express our grave concerns over reports that three Navy SEALs will face court-martial proceedings over their handling of one of the most wanted terrorists in Iraq. Based on the information we have, we believe that prosecution of these men is not warranted.
As you are aware, in September, the three SEALs in question captured Ahmed Hashim Abed, the alleged planner of the March 2004 ambush in Fallujah that resulted in the killing of four Blackwater contractors. We all remember the horrifying pictures showing two of these individuals, whose bodies, after being burned and mutilated, were hung on a bridge over the Euphrates River.
Since 2004, Abed evaded capture. However, in September, Special Warfare Operators 2nd Class Matthew McCabe and Jonathan Keefe, and Special Warfare Operator 1st Class Julio Huertas, undertook a mission that resulted in Abeds capture. Soon after his capture, an investigation was conducted based on reports that Abed had been struck in the stomach by one of the SEALs. As we understand it, there was no allegation of torture or sustained abuse. There was simply just this one alleged act. Prosecuting individuals for such a limited act seems to us to be an overreaction by the command. As a result of the investigation, the three SEALs refused to accept non-judicial punishment, believing, according to one of the defense attorneys that they are innocent of the charges. If convicted, they could face significant punishment of up to one years confinement, a bad conduct discharge, forfeiture of a portion of their pay each month for up to a year and a reduction in their rank.
It appears from all accounts that these SEALs are exceptional sailors, demonstrated by the fact that each had recently been advanced in rank. They captured a terrorist who had planned an attack that not only killed Americans but also maimed and mutilated their bodies. We believe that prosecution of these sailors for such an apparently limited action will have a negative impact on others in the military who risk their lives in dangerous, often ambiguous situation. Again, we strongly believe that these court-martial proceedings are not warranted and would urge that you review this matter.
One problem I see here. Gates reports to Obama. Need I say more........especially since the Seals caught a Muslim.
Separate arraignments? Is this a proscecution trick to make 2 SEALs think that the 3rd has cut a deal?
Have any other political figures spoken up? Anyone?
support group on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=201355981560
53,000 plus members
bookmark for later
bookmark for later
The time will come when the risk is not worth it. Maybe we are already there.
..destruction of the morale of the military continues—as planned IMHO...
We had those rules in WWII. Mistreatment of prisoners and lying to investigators have always been offenses.
You are probably so naive, that you believe that "all of the Japanese fought to the death" on the Pacific Islands, and that's why live prisoners were so darn rare.
It is to LOL.
“If we had used these PC pantywaist rules in WW2, we would have lost.”
We are losing this war in both Iraq and Astan. This is nuts. Using our military as police officers. They send in killers then complain if anyone gets hurt.
Notice the Army considered court-martialing those soldiers. There were courts-martial in the Biscari massacre.But sometimes things get swept under the rug in extreme cases. I can understand sweeping Dachau under, with the extreme stress that must have been caused by seeing the place.
Also, in Japan the command did not like the practice of shooting Japanese prisoners, and tried to stop it with some success.
Notice these men were offered Article 15s, showing the command didn’t think this was serious enough to warrant a court martial. We never would have known about this, and these SEALs could have gone on with their careers. Unfortunately, refusal of an Article 15 usually results in a court martial.
It’s an unfortunate situation all around, including the terrorist’s fat lip because it was much less than he probably deserved. But the basic question you have to ask yourself is: Do you think it’s okay for soldiers to break regulations and fail to follow orders because they feel like it?
“Yeah, tell it to the SS guards at Dachau that were lined up against a wall and shot by American troops during the camp’s liberation.”
I read that this happened when the American troops saw what the guards had done to the camp inmates. When they got done machine-gunning the guards, they handed pistols to the inmates so the inmates could finish off any survivors, which they were delighted to do. I don’t have a real problem with it because the camp guards were not combat troops (they were in fact despised by most German soldiers), they were in the business of shoving unarmed people into gas chambers.
There is also a story that charges were in fact filed against the soldiers. When the court martial papers reached General Patton’s desk, they allegedly fell off into his metal wastebasket where they accidentally caught fire when he forgot to blow out the match with which he had lit his pipe.
“You are probably so naive, that you believe that “all of the Japanese fought to the death” on the Pacific Islands, and that’s why live prisoners were so darn rare.”
Most did. It was common for Japanese to pretend to surrender so they could get close enough to our men to set off a grenade or bomb. When prisoners were taken, our men ordered them to strip to their underwear (from a distance) to make sure they had no concealed explosives.
“Its an unfortunate situation all around, including the terrorists fat lip because it was much less than he probably deserved. But the basic question you have to ask yourself is: Do you think its okay for soldiers to break regulations and fail to follow orders because they feel like it?”
The SEALs are not charged with disobeying an order, they are charged with hitting a terrorist. The next SEALs who find one (e.g. Osama bin Laden) are likely to just kill him to make sure there is only one story, so their careers won’t be ruined for doing their jobs. I won’t blame them if they do.
Which is disobeying regulations and orders (there are usually standing orders to back up regulations). I think it shows the prosecution's intent that they didn't pile on. I don't know of any real evidence, so hopefully this boils down to trusting who is telling the truth. Who do you think a jury full of servicemembers is going to believe?
The next SEALs who find one (e.g. Osama bin Laden) are likely to just kill him to make sure there is only one story, so their careers wont be ruined for doing their jobs. I wont blame them if they do.
I don't have a problem with that. If the military does, then they need to rethink some of their rules.
That's the "party line," and I"m sure it happened a lot, just as sure as I am right from my father in law's mouth (he spent the entire month on Iwo from day one onward) that it was damn hard for the japs to surrender.....even when they tried.
But you keep up the party line, if it makes you feel better. I'll stick with my point: if we had fought WW2 with today's ROE and JAG lawyers, we'd have LOST.
Not...necessarily. If we fought with lawyers they way they're used today, yes. But get a little creative. The Romans used "catapults" to pitch really really pissed-off cats at their enemies, and plague ridden rats have been used against populations before, so the precedent is very well established. Whip up a few "lawyerpults" and Al Qaeda would be crying "uncle" in no time.