Skip to comments.Copenhagen summit: Europe turns on US and China over weak emission targets
Posted on 12/07/2009 1:10:00 PM PST by Schnucki
The European Union today rejected the new carbon emission targets tabled by the United States and China and said they were much too weak to prevent catastrophic climate change.
The dispute between the three main players at the Copenhagen climate change summit overshadowed the first day of negotiations and dashed hopes that a deal on emissions was imminent.
The EU called on President Obama to announce a more ambitious target next week, when he arrives in Copenhagen for the last day of the conference on December 18.
But the US insisted that the provisional offer made 10 days ago by Mr Obama was remarkable and in line with what scientists had recommended.
Mr Obama has proposed to cut its emissions by 4 per cent on 1990 levels by 2020, although he has said this is subject to getting the approval of Congress. The EU has made a legally binding commitment to cut its emissions by 20 per cent over the same period. It has also said it would increase the cut to 30 per cent if other countries committed to comparable action.
Washington tonight attempted to demonstrate it was serious about tackling climate change by announcing new federal powers to regulate greenhouse gases on the grounds that they were endangering the health of Americans. This technically allows Mr Obama to override Congress and impose carbon cuts but, in practice, he is more likely to use the new powers as a bargaining chip to persuade enough senators to pass a bill enforcing the 4 per cent target.
Andreas Carlgren, Swedens environment minister and the EUs main negotiator under the rotating presidency, said the targets proposed by the US and China were too low to qualify as comparable action and therefore the EU would not strengthen its 20 per cent target.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
From right: Poul Nyrup Rasmussen of Denmark, the president of the Party of European Socialists (PES), and other European socialist leaders take public transport to a congress venue in Prague. Take a tram instead of a taxi and don't change your towel every day -- such are the rules at a two-day "carbon-free" congress of the Party of European Socialists, which has started in Prague. (AFP/Michal Cizek)
Well, of course not, since they're european socialists, they don't bathe everyday. ;)
In other words, we can’t compete, so we want to handicap you.
Such and idiotic comment.
Next you’ll be claiming Europeans are born with tails or some other xenophobic drivel.
And another thing. Americans elected Obama. That means ALL Americans are pro-Obama socialists by default to use the same sort of logic you’re employing here.
You have allowed the USA to become a socialist nation and yet you’re poking at other countries with completely stupid comments. What are we to make of you and your brave and fearless leader huh? Why have you inflicted him on the world? It wasn’t Europeans who elected him- it was red-blooded Americans, who as we all know are better than any other people. If this is what the best people on Earth have decided they want to lead them- god help us all.
LOL! Those clods are paying minimum of $650 a night hotel room and they don’t want clean towels?
I suppose Sheryl Crow told them not to use toilet paper, either.
The smell of methane in those conferences may become overpowering
Who cares what the science really says???? All we care about is making each and everyone of you bow. SO DO IT NOW!!!! thanks and keep grovelling will ya?
I hate these commie morons
It’s always America that has to bear the brunt of criticism at the conferences in Europe.
I wish we had a President with the Cajones to tell these people to kiss his Butt.
Tell you what Europe, you clean your mess and we will clean ours.
“But Mr Pershing hinted that Mr Obama might be willing to offer more short-term action, possibly in the form of a substantial contribution to a global fund to help poor countries adapt to climate change.”
Just f’n grand. Reparations again. Obama is pissing US dollars every time he gets in that g’dam plane. Didn’t we already make some huge donation to the world bank?
I’d say we need to name the foreign aid we already give around the world our ‘global’ debt that covers everything and then end it. The phrases ‘no good deed goes unpunished’ and ‘give an inch....’ come to mind. Time to end this.
“Such and idiotic comment.
Next youll be claiming Europeans are born with tails or some other xenophobic drivel.”
Lighten up, Francis.
Lighten up, Francis?
RE: “Europeans bathe.
Such and idiotic comment.”
They do bathe = but sometimes not very often. Back in the seventies it was well known that Germans, in particular, had a penchant for bathing and changing underwear ONCE per week. And many French have long used their perfumes as a replacement for bathing. I am NOT kidding.
One could say the same for Americans. I have known many a stinky American. Does this mean all Americans stink? Well, by the logic that gets floated around here- yes it does.
I’ve lived in Europe for 2 decades. The comments I see here on this forum have no similarity to reality.
I have lived in France. I have lived in Germany. I live in the UK at present. I have had many friends and flatmates from both of those countries and what you say is just not true.
But continue to live in your fantasy world. That’s the kind of mindset that got Obama elected. Americans love Obama. You’re America yes? That means you love him too. How’s that socialism thing working out for you, sport? Land of the Free? Are you happy with what you, your friends and family elected? You should be so proud- he’s about to get awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. What a special person and leader he is.
He is a direct reflection of the citizens and nation that elected him. And that’s you.
RE: “One could say the same for Americans. I have known many a stinky American. Does this mean all Americans stink? Well, by the logic that gets floated around here- yes it does.”
No need to get excited. What I related was true of some Germans and French back in the seventies when I was a frequent visitor to those countries and I knew some of the natives who confirmed such stats. I didn’t just somehow think this up on my own. I either read it or was informed of it — whatever -
OF COURSE people fail to bathe all over the world, including the US. Not a big deal at all — just stating MY version of reality decades ago. FWIW, I really enjoyed my time in both countries back then.
Land of the Obama lovers... That’s what we have become. I suppose it is easy to understand why freepers would prefer to look out across the oceans and imply that the stinky smell that is pervading the air is coming from all those heathen socialist foreigners and not from something within their own borders.
But here’s the news:
American’s sh!t stinks too. And right now, I think our sh!t stinks a lot worse than Europe’s.
But for a few hundred votes Gore would have been president. Think about that. With Bush, we only delayed something that was seemingly inevitable. America has longed for socialism for quite a long time and now it finally has it. People are already getting used to it. They’d rather talk about Tiger Woods and the NFL. As long as we have our priorities straight hey? And let’s talk about how stinky all those socialist Europeans are. They’re so unlike us! At least we’re clean smelling socialists.
I suppose it gave the people standing on the decks of the Titanic some comfort to think about what a mighty vessel they were going down on.
“Americans sh!t stinks too. And right now, I think our sh!t stinks a lot worse than Europes.”
You mean the EUSSR’s? The totalitarian superstate? That Europe? I’ve read the European Constitution (Treaty of Lisbon). We at least have a good constitution that is ignored. Europe has a constitution that is totalitarian and elitist as written.
“Lighten up, Francis?
Perhaps you’ve been an expat far too long to catch the reference.
If I recall, that’s from a not very good film.
You lighten up, huh?
We have Obama in the White House.
The head of the Ruling Political Party of the USA- Howard Dean- was just gloating the other day that socialism has finally defeated capitalism.
No. I’m not going to lighten up.
LOL. Pot calling the kettle...
We at least have a good constitution that is ignored. Europe has a constitution that is totalitarian and elitist as written.
Listen to yourself. Look at what we've become. So, now we're reduced to 'But American socialism is better than European socialism'.
We have become a caricature of ourselves and of reality. When this happened, I'm not exactly certain but it happened in the past and we are just living out the ramifications. It was game over a long time ago. We're just avatars trapped on the screen now thinking we're in control of something. Thinking we're still relevent.
We're just run of the mill socialists now, Comrade.
That's patently untrue. I think it was a Swiss pharma company that developed a drug,administered during pregnancy, that prevents tail growth in the foetus. Administration of the drug was made mandatory by fiat from the clowns in Brussels.
“We’re just run of the mill socialists now, Comrade.
What’s this “we”? There is far more opposition within the United States to Obama than opposition to Brussels in Europe.
Europeans seem to WANT to be ruled.
“If I recall, thats from a not very good film.”
You have clearly lost touch with America. LOL. Of course, Americans don’t have “flatmates”.
“The head of the Ruling Political Party of the USA- Howard Dean- was just gloating the other day that socialism has finally defeated capitalism.”
Their turn will come.
And that's why he's still a junior senator from Illinois?
Europeans seem to WANT to be ruled.
Ditto for us. We have put a man in the White House who has taken control of industry, sought to stifle the news media, is trying to institute social medicine, is trying to make us beholden to the IPCC as a form of world government, who bows and grovels before world leaders...
And conservatives are content because 'at least he hasn't come for our guns yet'.
You are exemplifying my point for me. We- Americans- have MASSIVE problems!!! We are dying as a nation- right now!!! As we sit here and argue. And all freepers can think of to do is make imbecilic adolescent comments about the Europeans! (who are just people too- like us!)
F*CK the EUROPEANS! I don't have time for worrying about the Europeans. It doesn't make me feel better to sit here and say 'Oh, the Euroweenies don't wash!' or 'but they're so socialist!' when our country is dying!!! We have problems that are much worse.
What if Washington showed up right now and asked us why we didn't even fight for our nation? What would we tell him? Well, at least our brand of socialism is better than the European brand?
I tell you what buddy- turn on the football game, it's Monday night yeah? Just go back to your American dream. Get a can of beer and kick back in the lazy boy. Obama, he doesn't really matter. He'll be gone in 3 more years. And everything will just go back to being hunky dory. He simply hoodwinked honest, hardworking Americans. All this stuff he's doing, we'll just roll it all back come 2012.
Yeah, that's the ticket...
What was that STUPID American television series about then? What was it called? Friends or something like that? They looked like flatmates to me- or maybe I misunderstood the plot? You're saying Americans don't share housing as a way to reduce expenses? That's stupid. I've seen people in America doing that. I've done it myself.
Their turn will come.
Right. And then it all goes back to the way it used to be. Dream on. That's the problem. Too many people living in a dream world.
Look, you can say I have lost touch with America. This is ABSOLUTELY true. The America I was born into and was raised in was not a socialist nation. It was not a nation of people clamoring for the government to take care of them. It was not a nation ripped in half.
Yeah, I've lost touch. I'm not 'down with the New Improved America'.
And I don't want to be. Enjoy your version of America. I'll take mine any day of the week (my version kicks your version's ass any day of the week).
“And conservatives are content because ‘at least he hasn’t come for our guns yet’.”
Who is content? Have you missed the marches? CONSERVATIVES protesting!?!
Oh wow! You’re protesting? Wow, that’ll show ‘em. They’ll give our country back to us for sure now.
Maybe somebody should have just told Washington, Adams, Jefferson et al ‘you don’t need to fight, just have a jolly big protest!’.
LOL. But, but, we’re protesting. LOFL! I’m one bad haircut away from losing my mind.
“Maybe somebody should have just told Washington, Adams, Jefferson et al you dont need to fight, just have a jolly big protest!.”
You might want to read up a bit on the 30 or so years before the American Revolution.
I’m well read thanks.
You think Obama is going to go away because of a protest?
You think all the Americans who want socialism are going to change their minds because we come up with a nifty chant for the Tea Party?
Obama isn’t the problem. He is simply an outcome of something that is much deeper. Obama is in office not because Americans were misled. He is in office because that’s what Americans wanted.
Now, how do you cut that sort of rot out of you when it’s like a cancer that has spread throughout the entire system? A protest isn’t enough. Calling the Europeans ‘smelly’ doesn’t fix anything either. But maybe in a really childish way it makes people feel good for a few seconds?
The problem won’t get fixed as long as we are suffering from this delusion of ‘We’re America! We’re A-O-Freaking-K! Because we’re the USA!’
No, man. We’re not ok. We are in really, really bad shape. And it’s not like Obama losing the next election is going to fix that. It’s much deeper than just that and the problem will never get fixed as long as people pretend it’s not there- or as long as they pretend it’s only those rascally Europeans who are to blame and we’ll be ok as soon as we get ‘our guy’ in office.
Now, you can defend the state of things in the USA all you want. But not me. I’m calling it like I see it. We are in a world of sh!t.
“Im well read thanks.”
Clearly not on the period I mentioned, or you would’ve noted the protests, riots, and various missions sent to Parliament. That went on for YEARS.
Whatever newbie. You just keep dreaming. You think we have YEARS? LOL.
But you know... The band kept playing even as the Titanic sank.
I’m finished with you. Say what you want and piss off.
“Whatever newbie. You just keep dreaming. You think we have YEARS? LOL.”
You compare us to the Founders and say the didn’t protest, they acted. Well, they DID protest. They exhausted every legal angle open to them before actual war.
Ok. Let me ask you something. Why are you arguing with me?
Is it because you think America is in great shape and you think I am wrong for saying how screwed up we are right now?
Is that it?
Exactly what is your point? That we’re doing ok with Obama? I don’t get what you’re arguing with me about. Is it my original post? Which post did you originally take issue with and say to yourself ‘You know, I don’t like this Prodigal Butthole guy, I’m going to argue with him’?
Which post and why? You’re mad at me for loving my country? For being angry at the rest of my countrymen for wanting socialism so bad they came within a whisker of electing Al F-—king Gore and then when they got the chance again they go for Obama? You angry at me for not liking that or what?
What exactly is your problem with me?
“Ok. Let me ask you something. Why are you arguing with me?”
You’ve made the statement that WE - as in all of us - support Obama and socialism without complaint or opposition. That is false.
That, and you don’t like Stripes. Seriously, man. That’s un-American. LOL
You see, this is what I'm talking about. A movie is fantasy. It's not America. It's a fiction of Hollywood's imagination. I'm not un-American for disliking a freaking film. And don't tell me to lighten up because of that.
And yes... By the logic of Free Republic, if one European is a socialist, they're all socialists. If one European doesn't like Bush- that means they all hate Bush (since hating Bush has now come to be equated with hating America). You can see this on literally any thread to do with with Europe. Freepers just want to be pissed off at someone but who we ought to be pissed off with is Americans. We can gnash our teeth at the Europeans but this is just a form of cognitive dissonance, a reluctance towards self-loathing (even if it is justified).
This is the logic or Free Republic and I am simply applying it to us. I mean, why should we be spared being colored by the same brush we like to paint others with?
We elected Obama. He is our president. Therefore (by FR logic) we all love him. We all want socialism.
You don't like that logic? Then the next time you see a freeper making a stupid blanket statement that covers several hundred million Europeans- the type of blanket statement that YOU yourself do not want to be judged with- take issue with them and argue with them about it. Otherwise you're engaging in a form of hypocrisy.
I'm just calling a spade a spade. We elected Obama yet we think the Europeans are stupid for giving him a Nobel prize- as if all the Europeans got together and decided to do that.
F--k Stripes. F--- Hollywood. F--- any American who is content and happy with Obama and if this includes you well, that's your problem not mine.
“You see, this is what I’m talking about. A movie is fantasy. It’s not America. It’s a fiction of Hollywood’s imagination. I’m not un-American for disliking a freaking film. And don’t tell me to lighten up because of that.”
In trying times, the only thing that keeps a man going is having a sense of humor. Perhaps you should look into it. Driving yourself into an asylum is not going to help your country one bit, is it?
“You don’t like that logic? Then the next time you see a freeper making a stupid blanket statement that covers several hundred million Europeans- the type of blanket statement that YOU yourself do not want to be judged with- take issue with them and argue with them about it. Otherwise you’re engaging in a form of hypocrisy.”
Where is this active anti-EU community?
Go piss up a rope. maybe this is all fun and games to you. Not to me.
There was a time when Texas was a sovereign nation. Not any more. California used to be a republic. Not anymore. We started out as sovereign states. One day, my home state (Georgia) and others decided to withdraw from a union they thought was voluntary. They were told quite forcibly- 'No'.
We look at our union as a great thing.
But this same logic doesn't work across the Atlantic.
Just pointing it out.
I did already say my line about going to piss up a rope yeah? Ok. Well, that's me about finished then. You have a great life. Enjoy your new and improved country.
“Go piss up a rope. maybe this is all fun and games to you. Not to me.”
All that anger won’t help you in what’s coming, son. It’ll just eat you up. Just a thought. Have a nice day.
“What was that STUPID American television series about then? What was it called? Friends or something like that? They looked like flatmates to me- or maybe I misunderstood the plot?”
Yes, it was a stupid show. Americans use the term “roommates”. We have “apartments”, not “flats”.
Duh. But here in the UK, the word flat is used. As I am in the UK and the flatmates I referred to were also in the UK, why should I not use the word flatmate?
And a flat and apartment is the same thing. It’s just a word. It doesn’t matter what you call it- they exist in America. They exist in the UK. And hey, they even have them in Africa.
Are you just being obtuse now? Well, aye. That’s a stupid question. Of course you are.
Why don’t you just let it go dude? Did you get bored peeing up the rope? How can I say this so it gets through your thick cranium? Piss off.
“Duh. But here in the UK, the word flat is used. As I am in the UK and the flatmates I referred to were also in the UK, why should I not use the word flatmate?”
Well, we aren’t.
“And a flat and apartment is the same thing. Its just a word. It doesnt matter what you call it- they exist in America. They exist in the UK. And hey, they even have them in Africa.”
My point was that your speech patterns (things like “well aye”) are foreign.
“How can I say this so it gets through your thick cranium? Piss off.”
You first, limey.
Of course my speech patterns are different. I've been living in foreign countries for 20 years. But there is nothing wrong with this. I'm not actually sure what you're trying to imply there.
things like well aye
Well? Americans stopped using the word 'well'? And aye is definitely a word. You understood it, right? I wasn't speaking Klingon. That was Englsih. English being that European language that most Americans speak. Spanish being the other. English is not a foreign language.
You can look it up in the dictionary if that helps.
Is this seriously your comeback? 'Oh he used the word "aye"! That proves he's got cooties!' Jesus guy. It's like... I wouldn't have written that one down on the forum for the whole world to see. Unlike some forums we have no 'take-back/edit' feature. That's still going to be there years from now for everybody to see.
In the South we have a word for refering to the second person in plural. It is y'all. This word is not used in the North by yankees. But this does not invalidate the word. You harping on my use of the word 'aye' (which is used in the USA whether you know it or not) is like a slime bag Yankee giving me stick because I use the word y'all. I remember seeing Ellen Degeneris (sp?) on Jay Leno a long time ago making fun of Southerners by mocking us with the word 'reckon'. She said 'I reckon.' Everybody laughs. But you know what? F--- her.
There is no homogeneity in the way Americans speak (as you seem to be implying). I remember as a boy marvelling at my cousin from Maryland because he called it 'pop' instead of coke. And it was fun in the Army finding out the different ways Americans from different parts of the country spoke and what they found funny about my Southern accent and idioms. Maybe it's just me being weird but I don't find anything sinister there. It's just par for the course. It doesn't matter where you come from, you can bet your bottom dollar that 200 miles down the road they say it a bit different than you do. That applies in Germany, Spain, USA. Everywhere.
I also speak German. My Spanish is faltering but I get by and I have studied French although my pronunciatin is very bad and the French usually pretend to not understand what I say. Does this make me an evil person in your world view? Is it going to freak you out if I spell colour the way I just did as opposed to color?
Limeys live in England. I did live there once for about 6 months. Didn't like it. Try harder to be obnoxious. You're obviously as much of a novice at that as you are at arguing your point.
I'm sorry you are so easily confused by my use of the word flatmate. If there's any way I can make that up to you- donate towards a brain transplant or something (a tenth of mine ought to set you to rights) just let me know. Also, if you're having trouble on another thread in the future and someone has used a word you've never encountered before and it's really messing with your head, give me a ping. I'll sort you out mate!
“What is your problem? Why don’t you just let this go? “
You really are totally humorless. Sad.
My sole and only point is that you have lived as an expat so long you really can’t claim to understand things on the ground here. The fact that you flew so totally off your rocker over an imagined slight to your European friends says that if anything does.
There’s a phrase you might remember from when you lived down here in the South: “bless your heart”.
You don't have a point. You get freaked out over an English word. You're a clueless idiot.
You haven't even seen me fly off my rocker yet. This is smooth sailing so far. This doesn't even amount to a minor disagreement yet.
And yes, I'm totally humourless. And don't care what you think about that. Although to be fair, you haven't said anything remotely humorous to this point. But you can screw yourself all the same- just for good measure.
“You don’t have a point. You get freaked out over an English word. You’re a clueless idiot. “
LOL. I didn’t get “freaked out” and I knew exactly what you meant. I just pointed out that you are an expat and as such, how much can you really claim to know about the opinions of Americans on the ground here?
“And yes, I’m totally humourless. And don’t care what you think about that. Although to be fair, you haven’t said anything remotely humorous to this point. But you can screw yourself all the same- just for good measure.”
Please.. stay in Europe. If you can’t get the joke being played on us, you don’t understand. History repeats. This time is the farce. The only way to stay sane is to point, squint, and laugh at them. Anything else will just cause a coronary.
Whatever guy. You got to boring me a few posts ago. You don’t have a point. This isn’t going anywhere. Nothing to learn here. No truths to be arrived at.
Now, I’m leaving. Not even going to look in the rear view to see what the bump was. You go ahead and say whatever you want. Call my mother a whore. Insult my ancestors. I don’t care. Hell, you win man. I am pleased and fuzzily glowed just to be in your presence. I am not worthy etc etc etc (insert whatever thing here makes you feel good about yourself)
Have a nice life. And good luck with that half brain thing you got going on.
Now he'll have to google it to find out the meaning.